Being a woman in geek culture

[Stella_Omega]

It seems that when you want to make a woman into a hero, you hurt her first. When you want to make a man into a hero, you hurt... also a woman first.

I could quote almost every paragraph, but go read it.

 

[Netzach]

http://jezebel.com/belle-knox-loses-her-financial-aid-1592015314



We REALLY need to push our daughters to stop listening to this misogynistic culture and get them into producing art and film, and get them back into the STEM field.

It would make getting decent women-based science and decent female characters a LOT easier.

She lost her aid because she's making money. And she may be making fuck-you money if her reality TV tv thing blows up like it might.

She'd lose that aid if she had a store on etsy that started doing real money. Just as I would have lost mine if I'd made over a certain amount. I had to make 5 grand go a year and not go over, so my heart doesn't bleed for her on this level. Maybe she should make more friends who aren't going to Greece and Rome out of those Students Who Should Not Be in College demographic she's shitting on - they're there too, and they Got Into Duke imagine that.

I'm all about the sex-workers-being-marginalized thing, but I'd be more pissed off about someone continuing to get a Pell for example, while making more money than a lot of other people's families do all year.

I'm sick of middle class kids like her talking about how incredibly easy it is if they were only poorer and could sleep through college off the teat of aid. It's not rocket science to know what she means when she says "students who Should Not Be At College" - basically, first-gen, poor, completely unable to do it without aid as well as loans, and let's be honest, not white, their ass arrogantly warming the seat denied some deserving petit-bourgeois oh the horror.

She's got a lot to bitch about, but this isn't part of it. But good for her, she'll become the conservative wanker's dream girl in the process.

If Duke is poor ROI in her personal universe, take it down a notch. It's what she's suggesting anyone benefitting from grants have to do instead - fuck that. No, you first.

Anyway, this isn't geekery, my bad.

 

[BrightlyGo]

It seems that when you want to make a woman into a hero, you hurt her first. When you want to make a man into a hero, you hurt... also a woman first.

There's a certain sick logic to it: in that paradigm, women have intrinsic value (just like other precious objects), so hurting one inflicts a real loss - on her if she's just slightly less objectified, or on the guy-to-become-hero she belongs to. And, of course, in addition to being valuable objects, women are seen as helpless, so villainy is also established at the same time. Convenient. You don't get quite the same thing by hurting some guy.

Pretty fucked up.

When i was a kid just starting to understand my own nature, it was still the tail end of the 70s, and with women's lib going on around me, it was natural enough to think that the traditional gender roles could just be neatly inverted. That you could just have a female character going through the old hero's journey with a sweet, high-born objectified boy among her prizes. Right?

Nope. Too simple, obviously. 'Strong' female characters had to have damage in their backstories, and either hate men outright, or, if they ever do fall for a guy, fall for an even stronger one.

Of course, fantasy fiction has come a little ways since then, so maybe video games are just lagging.

 

[satindesire]

She lost her aid because she's making money. And she may be making fuck-you money if her reality TV tv thing blows up like it might.

She'd lose that aid if she had a store on etsy that started doing real money. Just as I would have lost mine if I'd made over a certain amount. I had to make 5 grand go a year and not go over, so my heart doesn't bleed for her on this level. Maybe she should make more friends who aren't going to Greece and Rome out of those Students Who Should Not Be in College demographic she's shitting on - they're there too, and they Got Into Duke imagine that.

I'm all about the sex-workers-being-marginalized thing, but I'd be more pissed off about someone continuing to get a Pell for example, while making more money than a lot of other people's families do all year.

I'm sick of middle class kids like her talking about how incredibly easy it is if they were only poorer and could sleep through college off the teat of aid. It's not rocket science to know what she means when she says "students who Should Not Be At College" - basically, first-gen, poor, completely unable to do it without aid as well as loans, and let's be honest, not white, their ass arrogantly warming the seat denied some deserving petit-bourgeois oh the horror.

She's got a lot to bitch about, but this isn't part of it. But good for her, she'll become the conservative wanker's dream girl in the process.

If Duke is poor ROI in her personal universe, take it down a notch. It's what she's suggesting anyone benefitting from grants have to do instead - fuck that. No, you first.

Anyway, this isn't geekery, my bad.

The reason I have such a problem with it is the fact that in my opinion, College Should Be Free. And people should get aid to go to school, because it's hard enough going to school full time and still having to work full time. There aren't enough hours in the week for 40+ hours at a job and then 12 units of college. If you have a family that you help (Like me taking care of my disabled parents), if you have kids, or if you STUDY so you can actually pass your classes, you literally have no time to sleep, eat, or even take a shit without multitasking. When do I get time to go to the gym, or have a doctor's appointment? Where's a students' precious 'me time' or social life, which is for some people, intrinsic for their long-term mental health?

Every other first world country's college is free, and their governments don't see students as a way of making profits. But our kids get out of a four year program with six figure debts and they're lucky to be Baristas at Starbucks afterwards? Fuck that noise.

We live in a country today that spends a full 57% of it's multi-trillion-a-year budget on Military, and only a paltry 5% on education. If children really are "our future" we should be THROWING PILES OF MONEY at kids to get the best educations they can, so they can drag out country out of debt and start heading it towards progression.

We get primary and high school educations for free, why not college, ESPECIALLY in this day and age where we -have- to have a college degree just to land a starter job?!

Anyway, in short, she SHOULD be getting Pell money to go to school, like everyone else. Unless your parents are making 6 figures, it's HARD to pay for school these days.

 

[Netzach]

The reason I have such a problem with it is the fact that in my opinion, College Should Be Free. And people should get aid to go to school, because it's hard enough going to school full time and still having to work full time. There aren't enough hours in the week for 40+ hours at a job and then 12 units of college. If you have a family that you help (Like me taking care of my disabled parents), if you have kids, or if you STUDY so you can actually pass your classes, you literally have no time to sleep, eat, or even take a shit without multitasking. When do I get time to go to the gym, or have a doctor's appointment? Where's a students' precious 'me time' or social life, which is for some people, intrinsic for their long-term mental health?

Every other first world country's college is free, and their governments don't see students as a way of making profits. But our kids get out of a four year program with six figure debts and they're lucky to be Baristas at Starbucks afterwards? Fuck that noise.

We live in a country today that spends a full 57% of it's multi-trillion-a-year budget on Military, and only a paltry 5% on education. If children really are "our future" we should be THROWING PILES OF MONEY at kids to get the best educations they can, so they can drag out country out of debt and start heading it towards progression.

We get primary and high school educations for free, why not college, ESPECIALLY in this day and age where we -have- to have a college degree just to land a starter job?!

Anyway, in short, she SHOULD be getting Pell money to go to school, like everyone else. Unless your parents are making 6 figures, it's HARD to pay for school these days.

Dude, we so agree on how things should work ideally and in a non-insane world!

Till we get there, though, I think her attitude is kind of lame.

Also she HAD a full ride to a less prestigious school. She chose the prestige school, but wants to label other people less deserving of the same choice - how this sense of "college appropriate" is to be determined freaks me out a bit. Does that mean we take the price down and cut endowments for people who have no hope of paying? Do we arbitrarily decide that only rich kids are entitled to the arts or the liberal arts as human beings, and the poor but educated had better be happy striving toward middle management?

Thing is, when you're in a school like that EVERYONE had to get in - that means that the first-gen free ride student (who is driving up price, per the middle class whine) did the exact same level of work to get there - so her idea of barring the door to the "less appropriate" smells to me.

 

[DarlingCunt]

It infuriates me to see women brushed off so frequently in geek culture. The best example I can think of is Wonder Woman. In general, men in geek culture are eager to pick at Wonder Woman's outfit, saying it should look like this, it's not revealing enough, etc. But when it comes to the upcoming Wonder Woman movie, men are so quick to say that Wonder Woman's not an interesting character, that she's boring because she's just a moody girl, and that "we should be focusing on a real interesting character, like Aquaman." Wonder Woman is fucking hella, man. I think of all the super heroes, she's arguably one of the most selfless. I mean, she literally blinded herself to save her city. She cut off one of Medusa's snakes, gouged her eyes out, and continued to fight. It wasn't one of those, "I'll get my eyes back later" types of deals, either. She continued to be a badass and save the city, even while blind. And when she was granted one request by a goddess, she didn't even wish for her vision back. She asked for the damage done to the city to be repaired. (She was eventually given her eye sight back for her sheer bad-assery.) And people think Aquaman's more interesting?

 

[Primalex]

...

You are talking about a woman that loses all her powers when her hands are bound by a man.

 

[StrayKat]

You are talking about a woman that loses all her powers when her hands are bound by a man.

Yeah... that happens

 

[vedette]

As a comp sci major, I am honestly freaked out by gender issues, and it's amplified by the fact that I am of color too, so it's just gonna be great for me.

But I'm not as entrenched in nerd culture as I think, I guess the most nerdy things about me are that I like anime, Pokemon, various video games, and I code. I haven't run into any issues about being tested on my appreciation of those things, but I suppose it will be any day now.

Are there any women on here who work in the tech industry that have the inside scoop on what it's like to navigate those types of male dominated spaces?

 

[IrisAlthea]

As a comp sci major, I am honestly freaked out by gender issues, and it's amplified by the fact that I am of color too, so it's just gonna be great for me.

But I'm not as entrenched in nerd culture as I think, I guess the most nerdy things about me are that I like anime, Pokemon, various video games, and I code. I haven't run into any issues about being tested on my appreciation of those things, but I suppose it will be any day now.

Are there any women on here who work in the tech industry that have the inside scoop on what it's like to navigate those types of male dominated spaces?

I have worked in a few male dominated environments and I haven't had much trouble. In my experience, there is a more open kind of "testing" when you are new but that is for everyone who is new.

I'm sure it depends a lot on the industry and on the people you end up with.

 

[Primalex]

Are there any [..] who work in the tech industry that have the inside scoop on what it's like to navigate those types of male dominated spaces?

It really depends on how you look like.

a) Bombshell - kinda easy, you just don't get any serious work.
b) Hag - kinda easy, but you only get the annoying work.
c) Average nerdy - rampant sexism, but work is good.

 

[GyratingGiraffe]

A perspective from a late 30s English male with a history of dating geeky girls.

If you'd told me that geek culture would go mainstream when I was 13. I'd've laughed in your face and flat-out disbelieved you. If you'd further told me that yes, most of the women you will ever date in adulthood will know who Barbara Gordon is and be as much of a geek, if not actually slightly MORE of one than you are I think I'd've fainted.

But if you'd told me that this golden, unlooked-for dawn of the geeks shall inherit the earth would not only come about, but that male geeks like me (who, let's be charitable, are not always the best socialised of groups) would look this gift bantha in it's mouth and claim that girls somehow AREN'T really into it. That their fandom is worth less, that they liked it better when it was a joyless, sexless boys club and that chicks dressing up as Jean Grey somehow anything other than great? I'd have probably punched you in the face as a liar (or asked a girl to depending on genders. And the girls I know are much tougher than me).

I really hope this viewpoint goes away. I really hope they stop sharing their worthless opinions about everything. They don't have to LIKE everything, but I wish they'd just let other people LIKE things without making them feel bad. That women show up to things like comicon and aren't frankly worshiped respectfully as rare birds from an enchanted isle is bloody beyond me. Although I'm old-fashioned, I'd treat women with respect ANYWHERE. And regardless of whether or not I wanted/thought I had a shot with them.

Think I lost my way halfway through that. Sorry. But I don't want a single woman posting on this thread to feel anything other than wonderful and totally entitled to their geek cred (whatever the hell that actually IS). I love being a fan, I hate fan culture. And I particularly hate hte misogynist bits of it. I rather hoped that geeks, being perhaps a little smarter (maybe) than the average would be a little kinder. I hate being proven wrong on that. I really do.

 

[satindesire]

*snip* I rather hoped that geeks, being perhaps a little smarter (maybe) than the average would be a little kinder. I hate being proven wrong on that. I really do.

I'm always mystified by that as well. Geeks ARE stereotyped as being more intelligent than average but the way they go on about Geek Culture being a He-Man Woman-Hater's Club is beyond me.

 

[GyratingGiraffe]

I'm always mystified by that as well. Geeks ARE stereotyped as being more intelligent than average but the way they go on about Geek Culture being a He-Man Woman-Hater's Club is beyond me.

That whole bit just blows my mind. I'm totally stumped by it. Maybe when they had their all-boys club (and they never had that, there were ALWAYS female geeks, they just felt more marginalised in the past than they do now, presumably because of these attitudes) they could convince themselves that girls just didn't GET how important The Hobbit is to English literature so OBVIOUSLY they were never going to have a girlfriend.

Now that we live in the future, where girls are dressing up as foxy hobbits and going to Comiccon and know more about Spider-Man continuity than you while STILL holding down adult relationships and jobs and having social skills they no longer have that excuse. It's literally JUST their personality, barely concealed misogyny and lack of grooming that's repelling women like a forcefield.

 

[satindesire]

That whole bit just blows my mind. I'm totally stumped by it. Maybe when they had their all-boys club (and they never had that, there were ALWAYS female geeks, they just felt more marginalised in the past than they do now, presumably because of these attitudes) they could convince themselves that girls just didn't GET how important The Hobbit is to English literature so OBVIOUSLY they were never going to have a girlfriend.

Now that we live in the future, where girls are dressing up as foxy hobbits and going to Comiccon and know more about Spider-Man continuity than you while STILL holding down adult relationships and jobs and having social skills they no longer have that excuse. It's literally JUST their personality, barely concealed misogyny and lack of grooming that's repelling women like a forcefield.

BINGO.

 

[Primalex]

I'm always mystified by that as well. Geeks ARE stereotyped as being more intelligent than average but the way they go on about Geek Culture being a He-Man Woman-Hater's Club is beyond me.

Because you don't understand that there is no correlation between intelligence and ethics. Your understanding of the human nature is limited to "guys like to see me naked". On this level it's no surprise that everything else seems so strange to you.

 

[MeekMe]

My husband showed me this and I found it to be amusing.

 

[ShyGuy1855]

Unfortunately, I've seen too much of this first hand. Hang in there girls, it'll get better!

 

[satindesire]

My husband showed me this and I found it to be amusing.

This is so true.

Unfortunately, I've seen too much of this first hand. Hang in there girls, it'll get better!

Thank you!

 

[KoPilot]

Death Threats Drive Anita Sarkeesian From Her Home

 

[moonbeam17]

Death Threats Drive Anita Sarkeesian From Her Home

Well that's all kinds of disgusting and horrible. Talk about proving her point that society and male misbehavior has got some serious issues that need to be addressed

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well that's all kinds of disgusting and horrible. Talk about proving her point that society and male misbehavior has got some serious issues that need to be addressed

Dan Golding is SHOCKED, SHOCKED!

 

[satindesire]

Death Threats Drive Anita Sarkeesian From Her Home

I've been all over Facebook with this.

There's a group I mod called "Geeks and Nerds for Social Justice" that I feel is a truly safe place for minorities, women and the LGBT+ community that are geeky, and we're all collectively unsurprised.

Every time someone threatens her with death or rape they prove her points. The male entitlement, lack of self-awareness and false sense of superiority is astounding, but it's like they don't even understand how badly they self-parody!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Alison Bechdel just won a MacArthur Foundation Genius grant

 

[Keroin]

I'll just drop this here because...ugh.


http://www.wired.com/2014/10/trolls-will-always-win/

Not necessarily only related to geek culture but in this case it was.