Being a woman in geek culture

[BiBunny]

well, it is a male talking raccoon-- with a gang of male sidekicks.

And one green chick.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And one green chick.

Ah, we are well represented in that case!


(because never let it be said, given ONE female character, that we would want two or four)

But I can't help imagining this here badass talking raccoon as voiced by, say, Queen Latifah. Or Susan Bates, maybe.

 

[midwestyankee]

well, it is a male talking raccoon-- with a gang of male sidekicks.

So...who's the mammal?

 

[BiBunny]

Ah, we are well represented in that case!


(because never let it be said, given ONE female character, that we would want two or four)

But I can't help imagining this here badass talking raccoon as voiced by, say, Queen Latifah. Or Susan Bates, maybe.

Jesus, Stella, she's green. Can you seriously want anything more than that?

 

[Stella_Omega]

So...who's the mammal?

Rocket Racoon, I'm given to understand.

There was a fad in the 80s for funny animals in adventure settings, like Cerberus the aardvark.. Harold the Duck... The teenage mutant ninja turtles... and I guess, this guy.

 

[Primalex]

does the plant thing have a gender? I know they refer to it as a him in the trailer... is it a him? ... now i gotta go back & check lol.

Since Evil Dead it is well known that trees are male.

 

[Stella_Omega]

does the plant thing have a gender? I know they refer to it as a him in the trailer... is it a him? ... now i gotta go back & check lol.

I wonder whether it's consolation or condescension that they attempt to sell the token female as the most badass character in the lineup (a tough sell next to a pyrotechnic raccoon).

And apropros of that (what isn't, really?) here are 6 characters women never get to see in movies via cracked.com

#1 The Homme Fatale
He wants power and is not afraid to use sex to get it. Sometimes he keeps his fly unzipped as a way to get easy access to police files and lawyers' offices. Other times he is hiding something behind him and attempts to distract the heroine by standing in front of it and lowering his pants suggestively while smiling and raising an eyebrow. If he is being interrogated, there's no need for him to invoke his Fifth Amendment rights or even lie; he just wears really short shorts without any underwear, and when the cops are in the middle of interrogating him, he leans back, opens his legs, and lets his testicles fall sexily out of one leg hole."

The angry men protesting the male bashing in the comments are pretty funny too, I'm sorry to say. They keep saying that all of the tropes suggested here have been done at least once...

 

[midwestyankee]

And apropros of that (what isn't, really?) here are 6 characters women never get to see in movies via cracked.com

--snip--

The angry men protesting the male bashing in the comments are pretty funny too, I'm sorry to say. They keep saying that all of the tropes suggested here have been done at least once...

I read quite a few of those "been done before" comments and I find it interesting that no one bothered to provide evidence by way of a movie title or two.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I read quite a few of those "been done before" comments and I find it interesting that no one bothered to provide evidence by way of a movie title or two.

Well, several men have pointed out that #4 is Sixteen Candles. *counts on fingers* It's thirty years old!

 

[Cumference]

Rocket Racoon, I'm given to understand.

There was a fad in the 80s for funny animals in adventure settings, like Cerberus the aardvark.. Harold the Duck... The teenage mutant ninja turtles... and I guess, this guy.

And all we have now to carry on the tradition, is..... Perry the Platypus

 

[midwestyankee]

Well, several men have pointed out that #4 is Sixteen Candles. *counts on fingers* It's thirty years old!

Yes, but are they right?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yes, but are they right?

You know what? It's been too long since I've seen it. As I recall, Jake notices her at the Prom, and she doesn't realise it. She's surprised when he puts the make on her.

 

[Netzach]

What if we just stopped paying

I caught this interview with Kevin Murphy right as he was plugging his book at some con, this is from years ago, but the gist of it was basically how movies more or less suck and willfullly suck. Some fanboy of something gets up to complain about the suckage of one of his favorite books turned film, and Murphy begins to basically say "Stop going. Stop paying." The kids all look kind of blank - like it's UNTHINKABLE to pass up just one instance of anything with the name of their fandom on it.

(I never really felt the geek thing with MsT3K as much as the FILM geek thing- you should really just relax)

What if we just kind of did the same thing? I can't understand why we aren't voting with dollars, why we're accepting ten percent of anything acceptable, paying, complaining, and calling it evolution. Why any woman would go to an event with a reputation for rapey stuff and harrassment let alone PAY to. Why we're not in a position to suddenly not be around - we've shown up in enough numbers to prove that we do *care* about SF/fandoms/geekery - and until things stop sucking, we should be making our own.

What if we ONLY paid for crap that passes more than the Bechdel?

 

[YourCaptor]

I caught this interview with Kevin Murphy right as he was plugging his book at some con, this is from years ago, but the gist of it was basically how movies more or less suck and willfullly suck. Some fanboy of something gets up to complain about the suckage of one of his favorite books turned film, and Murphy begins to basically say "Stop going. Stop paying." The kids all look kind of blank - like it's UNTHINKABLE to pass up just one instance of anything with the name of their fandom on it.

(I never really felt the geek thing with MsT3K as much as the FILM geek thing- you should really just relax)

What if we just kind of did the same thing? I can't understand why we aren't voting with dollars, why we're accepting ten percent of anything acceptable, paying, complaining, and calling it evolution. Why any woman would go to an event with a reputation for rapey stuff and harrassment let alone PAY to. Why we're not in a position to suddenly not be around - we've shown up in enough numbers to prove that we do *care* about SF/fandoms/geekery - and until things stop sucking, we should be making our own.

What if we ONLY paid for crap that passes more than the Bechdel?

Voting with dollars is like voting for prom queen. The pretty one with lots of friends is going to win.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I caught this interview with Kevin Murphy right as he was plugging his book at some con, this is from years ago, but the gist of it was basically how movies more or less suck and willfullly suck. Some fanboy of something gets up to complain about the suckage of one of his favorite books turned film, and Murphy begins to basically say "Stop going. Stop paying." The kids all look kind of blank - like it's UNTHINKABLE to pass up just one instance of anything with the name of their fandom on it.

(I never really felt the geek thing with MsT3K as much as the FILM geek thing- you should really just relax)

What if we just kind of did the same thing? I can't understand why we aren't voting with dollars, why we're accepting ten percent of anything acceptable, paying, complaining, and calling it evolution. Why any woman would go to an event with a reputation for rapey stuff and harrassment let alone PAY to. Why we're not in a position to suddenly not be around - we've shown up in enough numbers to prove that we do *care* about SF/fandoms/geekery - and until things stop sucking, we should be making our own.

What if we ONLY paid for crap that passes more than the Bechdel?

Think of the money we would save!

Some of us are already doing that. I tend to consume only fanworks that have reimagined and queered the canon. If I have money for works, I like to buy from the kids I find on tumblr. I've found a few youtube channels that are ongoing series, and podcasts like Night Vale.
I've used kickstarter to put my entertainment dollars into games films and books that I think have the potential to go where I want to go.

And-- this is important-- I let the mainstream know that I'm boycotting the product that offends me.

 

[KoPilot]

I caught this interview with Kevin Murphy right as he was plugging his book at some con, this is from years ago, but the gist of it was basically how movies more or less suck and willfullly suck. Some fanboy of something gets up to complain about the suckage of one of his favorite books turned film, and Murphy begins to basically say "Stop going. Stop paying." The kids all look kind of blank - like it's UNTHINKABLE to pass up just one instance of anything with the name of their fandom on it.

(I never really felt the geek thing with MsT3K as much as the FILM geek thing- you should really just relax)

What if we just kind of did the same thing? I can't understand why we aren't voting with dollars, why we're accepting ten percent of anything acceptable, paying, complaining, and calling it evolution. Why any woman would go to an event with a reputation for rapey stuff and harrassment let alone PAY to. Why we're not in a position to suddenly not be around - we've shown up in enough numbers to prove that we do *care* about SF/fandoms/geekery - and until things stop sucking, we should be making our own.

What if we ONLY paid for crap that passes more than the Bechdel?

This is already happening in a number of industries-- comics and games, really. What the bigwigs end up doing is instead of acknowledging that there are interested demographics there that aren't giving them money, is skew the numbers to make it look like the core audience is the only audience and that they're doing great.

You know how all these studies have come out recently saying "yeah, women do make up almost half of gamers, and actually spend more money on games then men do"? Why hasn't that actually changed anything? That's because the stuffy nerds that are in charge of actually making games, the suits responsible for keeping the stockholders happy, have conveniently rigged the game in their favor. The games that women tend to play happen to be "casual games" and mobile games-- the sort that time and again get written off as "not real games" or "games that aren't noteworthy enough for the actual movers and shakers in the industry to pay attention to". And so they don't. Score one for business as usual.

Diamond, which more or less has a monopoly on the distribution of comics to every comic book shop in North America (and maybe overseas?), requires that a title meet a rather ridiculous minimum initial interest for them to even put it in their catalogue. The way things are structured right now, if Diamond disappeared, so would pretty much every single LCS and online comic retailer. This makes it really, really hard for indie books--you know, the kind that aren't dick/swole-fests--to gain a footing in the "mainstream" market. Numbers for webcomic readers, which are undoubtedly much larger than that of folks who still buy books from shops, just don't really exist, so the person that buys books from shops (the middle-aged neckbeard who subscribes to 30 Marvel and DC titles a month) is the face of comic books to both the wider world and the execs of the companies that have the clout to actually have Diamond directly benefit them.

So yeah. It's a rigged game-- fix it and then dollars will start to matter.

 

[Parthenon]

Numbers for webcomic readers, which are undoubtedly much larger than that of folks who still buy books from shops, just don't really exist, so the person that buys books from shops (the middle-aged neckbeard who subscribes to 30 Marvel and DC titles a month) is the face of comic books to both the wider world and the execs of the companies that have the clout to actually have Diamond directly benefit them.

So yeah. It's a rigged game-- fix it and then dollars will start to matter.

Nice stereotype it's perfect for this thread

 

[Stella_Omega]

Nice stereotype it's perfect for this thread

If they apologised for hurting your feelings so deeply with "neckbeard", would you then care to address this?

Diamond, which more or less has a monopoly on the distribution of comics to every comic book shop in North America (and maybe overseas?), requires that a title meet a rather ridiculous minimum initial interest for them to even put it in their catalogue. The way things are structured right now, if Diamond disappeared, so would pretty much every single LCS and online comic retailer. This makes it really, really hard for indie books--you know, the kind that aren't dick/swole-fests--to gain a footing in the "mainstream" market.

 

[KoPilot]

Nice stereotype it's perfect for this thread

 

[Dyslexicea]

Still being ignored!
Jemima Kirke schools us on the history of women in art

Sometimes we need to remember it really isn't worth the effort!
How Do I Deal With a Fake Feminist Dude?

 

[Netzach]

This is already happening in a number of industries-- comics and games, really. What the bigwigs end up doing is instead of acknowledging that there are interested demographics there that aren't giving them money, is skew the numbers to make it look like the core audience is the only audience and that they're doing great.

You know how all these studies have come out recently saying "yeah, women do make up almost half of gamers, and actually spend more money on games then men do"? Why hasn't that actually changed anything? That's because the stuffy nerds that are in charge of actually making games, the suits responsible for keeping the stockholders happy, have conveniently rigged the game in their favor. The games that women tend to play happen to be "casual games" and mobile games-- the sort that time and again get written off as "not real games" or "games that aren't noteworthy enough for the actual movers and shakers in the industry to pay attention to". And so they don't. Score one for business as usual.

Diamond, which more or less has a monopoly on the distribution of comics to every comic book shop in North America (and maybe overseas?), requires that a title meet a rather ridiculous minimum initial interest for them to even put it in their catalogue. The way things are structured right now, if Diamond disappeared, so would pretty much every single LCS and online comic retailer. This makes it really, really hard for indie books--you know, the kind that aren't dick/swole-fests--to gain a footing in the "mainstream" market. Numbers for webcomic readers, which are undoubtedly much larger than that of folks who still buy books from shops, just don't really exist, so the person that buys books from shops (the middle-aged neckbeard who subscribes to 30 Marvel and DC titles a month) is the face of comic books to both the wider world and the execs of the companies that have the clout to actually have Diamond directly benefit them.

So yeah. It's a rigged game-- fix it and then dollars will start to matter.

Totally. I figured this was the case. Cease to show and look, girls don't buy this shit. Show, and then you're participating in your own marginalization, degradation, and irrelevance. Seems to me like it can't be spun as easily at this point though.

It just seems to me like the horse (brony?) has sort of left the barn at this point, that if more displeased people would really use their money (and like Stella said, call out this facile Frank Miller CRAP that innundates the world so completely for what it is - stylized crap) that eventually dollars DO win over everything else. It takes the will to use them, but it really does work like nothing else.

I've started bailing on movies when they suck on female character fail grounds, much to the consternation and confusion of the spouse, although, she's getting more and more sympathetic to this the longer she's been sporting her rack. It's funny how that works.

Generally I don't think something has to stroke my politics to be great art or even OK art, but I do have a limited amount of time and I'm not going to spend it being talked down to like a moron. It's fun! Seriously. Click. Now I'm gonna go clean something or make dinner - domesticity > "rape as male character tragedy."

It's not like the old guard is doing that well on its own - it's ONLY the movie industry that really keeps pumping it along, isn't the bottom line that print titles are not what they were and it's not easy for everyone to come to the trough and feed? Seems like as goes porn so goes comics - only the non-mainstream and inventive people are going to really ride out the changes, because they are lighter and more agile and can change with the market.

BTW what's with this remaking of movies ten months after they just got made? Spider Man reboot in 5, 4, 3, 2....

Also, "the mainstream" - it's so funny. To me, the "mainstream" is the critical jizzfest inspired by a project like "Persepolis" or "Maus" it's when comics make book people sit up and actually notice that they've permeated IN to the mainstream.

 

[KoPilot]

Totally. I figured this was the case. Cease to show and look, girls don't buy this shit. Show, and then you're participating in your own marginalization, degradation, and irrelevance. Seems to me like it can't be spun as easily at this point though.

It just seems to me like the horse (brony?) has sort of left the barn at this point, that if more displeased people would really use their money (and like Stella said, call out this facile Frank Miller CRAP that innundates the world so completely for what it is - stylized crap) that eventually dollars DO win over everything else. It takes the will to use them, but it really does work like nothing else.

I've started bailing on movies when they suck on female character fail grounds, much to the consternation and confusion of the spouse, although, she's getting more and more sympathetic to this the longer she's been sporting her rack. It's funny how that works.

Generally I don't think something has to stroke my politics to be great art or even OK art, but I do have a limited amount of time and I'm not going to spend it being talked down to like a moron. It's fun! Seriously. Click. Now I'm gonna go clean something or make dinner - domesticity > "rape as male character tragedy."

It's not like the old guard is doing that well on its own - it's ONLY the movie industry that really keeps pumping it along, isn't the bottom line that print titles are not what they were and it's not easy for everyone to come to the trough and feed? Seems like as goes porn so goes comics - only the non-mainstream and inventive people are going to really ride out the changes, because they are lighter and more agile and can change with the market.

BTW what's with this remaking of movies ten months after they just got made? Spider Man reboot in 5, 4, 3, 2....

Also, "the mainstream" - it's so funny. To me, the "mainstream" is the critical jizzfest inspired by a project like "Persepolis" or "Maus" it's when comics make book people sit up and actually notice that they've permeated IN to the mainstream.

You hit the nail on the head with the movies thing. Prior to the big Marvel movies, I would have said that it was only a matter of time before the LCS went extinct and took all the publishers with 'em. But now you've got Thor and Spidey and Avengers and X-Men keeping the parasitic twin alive. (DC ain't doin' so hot, which is why you got that New 52 horseshit that didn't actually do anything for numbers in the long run. Actually, numbers wound up going down.)

Now that these assholes have joined the "too big to fail" club, being wiped off the map just isn't an option anymore even though I still think it's the best option. There's not gonna be any one straw that'll break the camel's back, now... it'll be a long, arduous process that may or may not actually ever resolve itself without the entire system changing.

Good thing "mainstream" shit doesn't come close to accounting for the majority of comics, amirite?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Today I witnessed something amazing. Almost in stark contrast to yesterday, today I saw tangible impact of lady-representation in comics.

At the bookstore I work at, we have a dedicated Adventure Time section. This family came in and those kids were SO EXCITED to see their favourite characters in comics. I talked them through each OGN and series compilation, explaining what they all were and in what order they should be read, and this little girl’s entire life was changed. You could see it on her face.

Click for the adorable illustration

 

[satindesire]

 

[reallyunsure]

That is great.