GuiltyPleasure
AWTSS
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But without the come-uppance. Pure filth.
Challenge to my fave poets
- Thread starter CharleyH
- Start date
But without the come-uppance. Pure filth.
The_Fool
smiling for the camera
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Angeline
Poet Chick
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I do filth quite well at times. Filthy yes, poetic can be questionable...
Um. Remember those blues poems we wrote together? I think you can strike the balance rather well.
CharleyH
Curioser and curiouser
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Sorry for the delay (was fact checking)
While epic poetry predates it, the earliest found love poem (some scholars prefer sexual lyric or sex poem) was labeled Istanbul #2461 by the archaeologists who unearthed it in the 1880's in what was formerly known as Nibru and is now known as Nippur, a region in Iraq. Written in the Emesal dialect (considered the dialect of women during that period) it's considered a risqué ballad because of its forthright expression of the erotic.
There is some debate, but many agree that the poem was likely composed as a script by a priestess since, as was custom during that time, it was the sacred and yearly duty of the king to marry a priestess and votary of Inanna, the goddess of sexual love, fertility and war, to ensure fertility of the soil, fecundity of the womb and of course, the king's power for the coming year.
Whether in a one-time or yearly ritual ceremony, it was recited by at least one priestess bride of Sumerian King Shu-Sin during his reign between 2037 and 2029 BC.
In 1951, during his employment at the Istanbul Museum of the Ancient Orient, Dr. Samuel Kramer discovered the tablet amongst 70,000 other pieces. Immediately recognizing that it was a poem, he set out to translate it with historian Muazzez Hilmiye Cig. In doing so they referred to the poem as 'To the Royal Bridegroom' rather than the impassionate label originally given to it.
As far as I have researched, the following is a complete translation of Istanbul #2461:
Bridegroom, dear to my heart,
Goodly is you beauty, honeysweet,
Lion, dear to my heart,
You have captivated me,
let me stand tremblingly before you.
Bridegroom, I would be taken by you to the bedchamber..
Lion, I would be taken by you to the bedchamber.
Bridegroom, let me caress you,
My precious caress is more savoury than honey and milk ,
In the bedchamber, honey-filled,
Let me enjoy your goodly beauty,
Lion, let me caress you,
Bridegroom, you have taken your pleasure of me,
Tell my mother, she will give you delicacies,
My father, he will give you gifts.
Your spirit, I know where to cheer your spirit,
Bridegroom, sleep in our house until dawn,
Your heart, I know where to gladden your heart,
Lion, sleep in our house until dawn.
You, because you love me,
Give me pray of your caresses,
My lord god, my lord protector,
My Shu-Sin, who gladdens Enlil's heart,
Give my pray of your caresses.
Your place goodly as honey, pray lay (your) hand on it,
Bring (your) hand over like a gishban-garment,
Cup (your) hand over it like a gishban-sikin-garment.
At one time or another we've all experienced love: puppy love, first true love, passionate, sexual, lasting or unrequited love and with Valentine's Day on the horizon, it only seems fitting to pay homage to this deep human emotion. However, in thinking about the history of the above poem and the culture from which it came, I've decided to put a bit of a spin on this challenge
THE CHALLENGE:
The theme for this challenge is love (love that occurs between two humans as opposed to your love of ice-cream for example) and the poem must revolve around this emotion. However, the theme of human love must be pinned on a poem about a place (country, city, town, suburb, itinerary, neighborhood) and apparent only as subtext. Any form may be used, but at least one reference must be made to the history or mythology inherent of the Istanbul 2461 poem and at least one line of your poem must be a direct line from Istanbul 2461, although this excerpt may be in any language you choose.
DEADLINE: February 10th. On that day I will post a separate thread titled THE ISTANBUL LOVE CHALLENGE. Just feel free to post your poem to the thread.
Happy penning, folks!
While epic poetry predates it, the earliest found love poem (some scholars prefer sexual lyric or sex poem) was labeled Istanbul #2461 by the archaeologists who unearthed it in the 1880's in what was formerly known as Nibru and is now known as Nippur, a region in Iraq. Written in the Emesal dialect (considered the dialect of women during that period) it's considered a risqué ballad because of its forthright expression of the erotic.
There is some debate, but many agree that the poem was likely composed as a script by a priestess since, as was custom during that time, it was the sacred and yearly duty of the king to marry a priestess and votary of Inanna, the goddess of sexual love, fertility and war, to ensure fertility of the soil, fecundity of the womb and of course, the king's power for the coming year.
Whether in a one-time or yearly ritual ceremony, it was recited by at least one priestess bride of Sumerian King Shu-Sin during his reign between 2037 and 2029 BC.
In 1951, during his employment at the Istanbul Museum of the Ancient Orient, Dr. Samuel Kramer discovered the tablet amongst 70,000 other pieces. Immediately recognizing that it was a poem, he set out to translate it with historian Muazzez Hilmiye Cig. In doing so they referred to the poem as 'To the Royal Bridegroom' rather than the impassionate label originally given to it.
As far as I have researched, the following is a complete translation of Istanbul #2461:
Bridegroom, dear to my heart,
Goodly is you beauty, honeysweet,
Lion, dear to my heart,
You have captivated me,
let me stand tremblingly before you.
Bridegroom, I would be taken by you to the bedchamber..
Lion, I would be taken by you to the bedchamber.
Bridegroom, let me caress you,
My precious caress is more savoury than honey and milk ,
In the bedchamber, honey-filled,
Let me enjoy your goodly beauty,
Lion, let me caress you,
Bridegroom, you have taken your pleasure of me,
Tell my mother, she will give you delicacies,
My father, he will give you gifts.
Your spirit, I know where to cheer your spirit,
Bridegroom, sleep in our house until dawn,
Your heart, I know where to gladden your heart,
Lion, sleep in our house until dawn.
You, because you love me,
Give me pray of your caresses,
My lord god, my lord protector,
My Shu-Sin, who gladdens Enlil's heart,
Give my pray of your caresses.
Your place goodly as honey, pray lay (your) hand on it,
Bring (your) hand over like a gishban-garment,
Cup (your) hand over it like a gishban-sikin-garment.
At one time or another we've all experienced love: puppy love, first true love, passionate, sexual, lasting or unrequited love and with Valentine's Day on the horizon, it only seems fitting to pay homage to this deep human emotion. However, in thinking about the history of the above poem and the culture from which it came, I've decided to put a bit of a spin on this challenge
THE CHALLENGE:
The theme for this challenge is love (love that occurs between two humans as opposed to your love of ice-cream for example) and the poem must revolve around this emotion. However, the theme of human love must be pinned on a poem about a place (country, city, town, suburb, itinerary, neighborhood) and apparent only as subtext. Any form may be used, but at least one reference must be made to the history or mythology inherent of the Istanbul 2461 poem and at least one line of your poem must be a direct line from Istanbul 2461, although this excerpt may be in any language you choose.
DEADLINE: February 10th. On that day I will post a separate thread titled THE ISTANBUL LOVE CHALLENGE. Just feel free to post your poem to the thread.
Happy penning, folks!
Angeline
Poet Chick
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Posts
- 27,157
While epic poetry predates it, the earliest found love poem (some scholars prefer sexual lyric or sex poem) was labeled Istanbul #2461 by the archaeologists who unearthed it in the 1880's in what was formerly known as Nibru and is now known as Nippur, a region in Iraq. Written in the Emesal dialect (considered the dialect of women during that period) it's considered a risqué ballad because of its forthright expression of the erotic.
There is some debate, but many agree that the poem was likely composed as a script by a priestess since, as was custom during that time, it was the sacred and yearly duty of the king to marry a priestess and votary of Inanna, the goddess of sexual love, fertility and war, to ensure fertility of the soil, fecundity of the womb and of course, the king's power for the coming year.
Whether in a one-time or yearly ritual ceremony, it was recited by at least one priestess bride of Sumerian King Shu-Sin during his reign between 2037 and 2029 BC.
In 1951, during his employment at the Istanbul Museum of the Ancient Orient, Dr. Samuel Kramer discovered the tablet amongst 70,000 other pieces. Immediately recognizing that it was a poem, he set out to translate it with historian Muazzez Hilmiye Cig. In doing so they referred to the poem as 'To the Royal Bridegroom' rather than the impassionate label originally given to it.
As far as I have researched, the following is a complete translation of Istanbul #2461:
Bridegroom, dear to my heart,
Goodly is you beauty, honeysweet,
Lion, dear to my heart,
You have captivated me,
let me stand tremblingly before you.
Bridegroom, I would be taken by you to the bedchamber..
Lion, I would be taken by you to the bedchamber.
Bridegroom, let me caress you,
My precious caress is more savoury than honey and milk ,
In the bedchamber, honey-filled,
Let me enjoy your goodly beauty,
Lion, let me caress you,
Bridegroom, you have taken your pleasure of me,
Tell my mother, she will give you delicacies,
My father, he will give you gifts.
Your spirit, I know where to cheer your spirit,
Bridegroom, sleep in our house until dawn,
Your heart, I know where to gladden your heart,
Lion, sleep in our house until dawn.
You, because you love me,
Give me pray of your caresses,
My lord god, my lord protector,
My Shu-Sin, who gladdens Enlil's heart,
Give my pray of your caresses.
Your place goodly as honey, pray lay (your) hand on it,
Bring (your) hand over like a gishban-garment,
Cup (your) hand over it like a gishban-sikin-garment.
At one time or another we've all experienced love: puppy love, first true love, passionate, sexual, lasting or unrequited love and with Valentine's Day on the horizon, it only seems fitting to pay homage to this deep human emotion. However, in thinking about the history of the above poem and the culture from which it came, I've decided to put a bit of a spin on this challenge
THE CHALLENGE:
The theme for this challenge is love (love that occurs between two humans as opposed to your love of ice-cream for example) and the poem must revolve around this emotion. However, the theme of human love must be pinned on a poem about a place (country, city, town, suburb, itinerary, neighborhood) and apparent only as subtext. Any form may be used, but at least one reference must be made to the history or mythology inherent of the Istanbul 2461 poem and at least one line of your poem must be a direct line from Istanbul 2461, although this excerpt may be in any language you choose.
DEADLINE: February 10th. On that day I will post a separate thread titled THE ISTANBUL LOVE CHALLENGE. Just feel free to post your poem to the thread.
So I'm assuming that if I take my poem Winter Harbor and add a poem reference from the above and rename it Winter Harbor 2461, it won't fly.
You're not listening to Lauren.I know that Lauren. She wants at least a terzanelle.
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champagne1982
Dangerous Liaison
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Ok. I've spewed out a visceral response but the more I think about this challenge and the region that spawned the poem Istanbul #2461, I'm wondering if a form poem wouldn't answer it quite nicely.
A Rubaiyat or Ghazal should fit the feeling although the translated lines don't quite fit my style. I think that this being poetry, we can edit our excerpts to retain the key words and meaning to suit our purposes. What say you Charley? Can I paraphrase the lines I use to adapt them more to my language and vocabulary?
eta: It just came to me that Ange will find a glosa poem in this. So, there, 3 formulae and Charley didn't even need to challenge us to write one.
A Rubaiyat or Ghazal should fit the feeling although the translated lines don't quite fit my style. I think that this being poetry, we can edit our excerpts to retain the key words and meaning to suit our purposes. What say you Charley? Can I paraphrase the lines I use to adapt them more to my language and vocabulary?
eta: It just came to me that Ange will find a glosa poem in this. So, there, 3 formulae and Charley didn't even need to challenge us to write one
.
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Angeline
Poet Chick
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Ok. I've spewed out a visceral response but the more I think about this challenge and the region that spawned the poem Istanbul #2461, I'm wondering if a form poem wouldn't answer it quite nicely.
A Rubaiyat or Ghazal should fit the feeling although the translated lines don't quite fit my style. I think that this being poetry, we can edit our excerpts to retain the key words and meaning to suit our purposes. What say you Charley? Can I paraphrase the lines I use to adapt them more to my language and vocabulary?
eta: It just came to me that Ange will find a glosa poem in this. So, there, 3 formulae and Charley didn't even need to challenge us to write one
You are so damn sharp! When I read Charley's post, I immediately thought of my Winter Harbor poem, which already meets most of the criteria, so I pretty much understood how to go about it. But then I remembered that I also wrote a Winter Harbor glosa, so I did start thinking about that and other forms. I think (and I know you get this) that when there's a bunch of requirements for writing something, form is actually easier. I find it much easier to write in form because you know all the parameters before you start. That works for me, anyway. But which form? I may still surprise you.
CharleyH
Curioser and curiouser
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LOL, you should have seen the repulsed grimace when I mentioned terzanelle!So I'm assuming that if I take my poem Winter Harbor and add a poem reference from the above and rename it Winter Harbor 2461, it won't fly.
You're not listening to Lauren.I know that Lauren. She wants at least a terzanelle.
CharleyH
Curioser and curiouser
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I've given this much thought and mainly because the work itself is a translation (probably to German and then again to English). However, there is a difference between a translation and an interpretation and I do feel that a paraphrase is more like an interpretation.
Also, I think using a line from this poem as it is in English, is a challenge in itself for any poet. P.S. I have allowed for that one line to be translated into another language, which might work for you or it might not.
Angeline
Poet Chick
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I've given this much thought and mainly because the work itself is a translation (probably to German and then again to English). However, there is a difference between a translation and an interpretation and I do feel that a paraphrase is more like an interpretation.
Also, I think using a line from this poem as it is in English, is a challenge in itself for any poet. P.S. I have allowed for that one line to be translated into another language, which might work for you or it might not.
Also, you didn't say we can't break that line any way we want. Damn! I'm giving away all my tricks.
CharleyH
Curioser and curiouser
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Also, you didn't say we can't break that line any way we want. Damn! I'm giving away all my tricks.
You know? LOL. I didn't even think of this. However, you can be damned sure I will remember it for next time!
Just pointing out a link in my sig line, just in case anyone needs - you know - history or mythological things to stir them. I will change the link every few days. But admittedly, some stuff is great for a discussion.
GuiltyPleasure
AWTSS
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Wel, that wasn't a big hit. I will attempt a bigger one next time. BTW? Lauren and I became the official Mr and Mrs US today!
Oh ( and I hate this as a rule) but ((((((hugs)))))) and many congrats.......who caught the virtual bouquet? I hope it was one of the guys in here. Atchooooo!
es to both.
Angeline
Poet Chick
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Oh ( and I hate this as a rule) but ((((((hugs)))))) and many congrats.......who caught the virtual bouquet? I hope it was one of the guys in here. Atchooooo!
It was me. I'm long overdue.
Kisses and hugs to the Hyndes.
CharleyH
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It was me. I'm long overdue.
Kisses and hugs to the Hyndes.
Or ... The Jekyll's.
Muito obrigada.
champagne1982
Dangerous Liaison
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Wow! That's a huge step for a little girl from well... you know where you're from to find love across an ocean. A, I wish you prosperity and happiness. T, I wish you happiness and prosperity. Together, I wish you all of the joy you can share for as long as you can share it.Wel, that wasn't a big hit. I will attempt a bigger one next time. BTW? Lauren and I became the official Mr and Mrs US today!
CharleyH
Curioser and curiouser
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Wow! That's a huge step for a little girl from well... you know where you're from to find love across an ocean. A, I wish you prosperity and happiness. T, I wish you happiness and prosperity. Together, I wish you all of the joy you can share for as long as you can share it.
Can I merely say thanks and then demand that you post a poem to the impending thread on the 10th?
champagne1982
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I was just thinking about levels of poetic interpretation. Is the language those lines are translated from the original Sumerian? Otherwise, wouldn't the translator of the English lines be paraphrasing the English to be more poetic in the finished work?I've given this much thought and mainly because the work itself is a translation (probably to German and then again to English). However, there is a difference between a translation and an interpretation and I do feel that a paraphrase is more like an interpretation.
Also, I think using a line from this poem as it is in English, is a challenge in itself for any poet. P.S. I have allowed for that one line to be translated into another language, which might work for you or it might not.
I imagine that's why some of the translations of poetry to English sound more poetic and musical to my ear. The translator had more knowledge of the two languages and is blessed with the soul of a poet.
tungtied2u
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Wel, that wasn't a big hit. I will attempt a bigger one next time. BTW? Lauren and I became the official Mr and Mrs US today!
DRAT ! I was out of town on the 6th and missed your official announcement ...
Well...PLEEEEEEEZ accept my apologies, congratulations, and best wishes for a long and happy future together.
GuiltyPleasure
AWTSS
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DRAT ! I was out of town on the 6th and missed your official announcement ...
Well...PLEEEEEEEZ accept my apologies, congratulations, and best wishes for a long and happy future together.
Well, I'm not going to be ready either I'm afraid and I have to congratulate Charley on presenting the most difficult challenge so far.
*sounds of teeth grinding*
champagne1982
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I expect the other participants will post their challenge poems on the other thread in the morning...
They're just off voting in primaries and the like.
They'll have poems, I just know they will..
Won't they?
They're just off voting in primaries and the like.
They'll have poems, I just know they will..
Won't they?
Angeline
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I may need a day or two. I awoke with the worst virus yesterday--barely got out of bed--and I am on my way back there now lol. My fngers are actaully aching trying to type.
The Hyndes will just have to understand. They don't want a germy urrpy poem.
champagne1982
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Get well, soon! I hope you feel better later on. We've had the bug here and everyone's had a flu shot, even. So, it's definitely virulent.I may need a day or two. I awoke with the worst virus yesterday--barely got out of bed--and I am on my way back there now lol. My fngers are actaully aching trying to type.
The Hyndes will just have to understand. They don't want a germy urrpy poem.
Sleep, fluids and ASA.
Angeline
Poet Chick
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Yaknow I had a flu shot in September. And ee has a bad cold so when I got up yesterday, I thought I must be catching it. No. Within an hour I felt like I had the flu--with all its attendent ugliness. This morning I feel much better, no more tummy sympoms or chest coldy stuff. If I didn't know that ee and I ate the same foods yesterday, I'd say it was food posioning, but he was eating fine all day. Who know? I'm still really sleepy though.
Thx for the advice, Moma. Can you come over and make some soup?
