children and public displays of BDSM

[catalina_francisco]

I thought you had touched on this issue of the right to publicly display your choices to children and the public in previous threads. Personally, I brought both my children up to be accepting of all people, regardless of religion, sexuality, or race, and thankfully they both adopted that tolerance and my daughter in particular has a wide diversity of friends from all walks of life, but I would have been offended and downright pissed at anyone who felt it their place to push it in my children's face, especially in public places and without thought to how I wanted such topics introduced and discussed and at which age I felt it was appropriate.

You see children do not have the capacity to understand certain things at all ages, and to introduce it earlier than they can understand it, is abusive and sets them up for further possible abuse throughout their life. Also, just telling children that people do x because they like it is not going to satisfy children at certain ages, or who are extra curious, but it doesn't mean they are old enough to comprehend and understand the full reality if given an honest answer, or that it won't be harmful to them. Even though my friends were of diverse groups relating to sexuality, race and religion, and often those differences were evident when they visited or were in our presence, it was done in a natural way and safe setting and with my knowledge, and did not force their beliefs or ways into my children's or my reality.

It is also a matter of maturity on the part of who is doing it and who they are forcing their ways in the face of. I personally think anyone who feels they have the right to overtly force others to confront their choices, as in publicly walking on a leash in a vanilla setting or shouting loudly that all who do not belive xyz are sinners, andfeel so strongly about it they cannot see why others aren't rushing to show them to their children, are not only immature, but also abusive, self centred and self motivated/involved, and not the type person I want setting an example of whatever lifestyle they have chosen to my children or anyone because I do not believe they are motivated by wanting to educate, but more so by wanting to force themselves and their beliefs on others and also to gain attention for attention's sake.

In such issues when related to sexuality where no matter how much you scream it is not sexual Kailey, for you we know it is very sexually motivated and so for you to then feel strongly enough to want to expose children to it yourself raises a lot of red flags as to how much more you could be persuaded to exhibit to children given the right circumstances where you felt justified and safe (your own safety, not theirs) to do so. I have no problem with public display of affection such as hugging and kissing...I actually think it is healthy for everyone to recognise affection is a valid and real emotion which is good and does not have to be sexually motivated at all...but when I see people doing things publicly which are sexual (or wanting to) where children are exposed, I have to feel they are not the type people I would want anywhere near a child of any age, nor do they have the maturity to be promoting that choice in a healthy way. And yes, I have always worn my collar in public, but it is also something any number of people wear as a fashion accessory and which children do not see as that out of place to require an explanation or even noticed, nor do I go around hoping to be noticed for it and doing things to make sure I draw more attention to myself such as wearing leashes. Just like having sex, I can do such things quite comfortable in the privacy of our own home without shoving it in other peoples faces who might be offended, and especially without exposing children to it.

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Yes, they are offended but it is impossible to shield people from everything that offends them. There will always be someone who is offended by something.

i think that the leash thing might be taking it a little far. That probably is just play and should be left at home. Still, if someone chose to do it, i don't think that would be a problem. There is nothing bad about it. People just don't like it and that is their own opinion.

you're right and since this is the U.S. (well where i am anyway) they are free to do as they choose, but they better be prepared for the looks and comments, and they have no right to complain when they get those looks and comments either because they knew when they put that stuff on, the reaction it was going to get.

my opinion may just be jaded or whatever by the fact that i do not like any public displays of affection, a small kiss or whatever is fine but i don't like to be hung on, and i dont' like to 'hang on' Master in public, nor do i like to see others doing it, especially when i have my kids with me. i just think there are some things best left out of the public eye, one of them being the way i choose to live my life (BDSM/SM/D/s) i don't need to 'shock the world' in order to know who i am so i choose to not advertise it, and yes, if you're going to wear a leash out in public, you are advertising your sexual lifestyle IMO

 

[Netzach]

I don't have children.

I'm over 30.

There's a time and a place for everything.

I am elated that I grew up in NYC.

I saw way more interesting sights than a girl on a leash. I grew up in the NYC of Rollerina and Ugly George, the Village, the Meat Packing district in the late 80's (my family were fans of a restaurant called Artie's Warehouse in the heart of the cruising district) and the Halloween Parades, which were something like an IML convention colliding with the Radical Faeries.

I guess you could look at me and say "see what happens?"

I'm not into the idea of inflicting our sex trips on the general public - as in I don't think I want to live in a world of people walking around holding onto their boys' enema hoses, but honestly I wish people were a little less freaked out about the public being confronted with ANY level of difference. The SM community is at times way more narrowminded about this than the "public" is.

It could be argued that M and I showing up in full leathers at Starbucks suburbia after church on pride weekend was a horrible horrible infliction of our sex trip on children. I personally think it was probably good for these people to see anything remotely outside the big box retail norm, and I wasn't killing puppies or propositioning anyone. I was getting coffee in a leather corset. Regular grande latte, not-as-hot extra shot grande lattee for him, and I tipped.

Oh, why did we do that? We were on our way to the pride parade, where our leatheriness was perfectly appropriate, the traffic was weird, I wanted coffee and we thought "why should we go halfway across town when we can take our normal exit to the usual starbucks."

People stared but no one went apeshit on us. This is Minnesota after all. And I paid and tipped. That's the essence of America right there.

 

[serijules]

BDSM and homosexuality are not good comparisons, IMO. Many people are uncomfortable with gay and lesbian displays of affection because it goes against their religion and or is just generally distasteful to them simply because they have no experience with homosexuality. Ignorance is a mighty strong influence on ones opinions and thoughts and actions. Often once said ignorants get to know a gay or lesbian person they realize their judgments were off, even if they still don't understand or really even accept homosexuality. "This person is a good person even if in my eyes/religion they are sinners." type of thing. Certainly not all, there will always be those that will not accept it in any form no matter what, but in my experience exposure will at least lessen the outward judgments and intolerance for homosexuals.

BDSM on the other hand is something that unless you are wired for it, you are just not gonna get it. It goes against everything we were raised to believe, regardless of gender, religion, etc. Hitting people is "wrong", "abusive", etc. Humiliating the people you love in public is "wrong" and makes someone a jerk. This is a whole hell of a bigger taboo to try to understand than simply being attracted to someone of the same gender. I think it's ridiculous to expect the public to get it or tolerate it based on how up in arms we ALL get over true abuse. Like I said, it's something we are wired for, that we understand and can see the difference between what we do and abuse/wrong.

If I was out in public with my non-existent children in a very vanilla public place and I saw someone leading their slave around in collar, cuffs, a leash, I would likely be a bit put off too. Not for the leash, collar, their BDSM, or anything like that...but for having such poor judgment that they feel the need to display it so "loudly" in public without regard to the fact that most people just are not going to see what they want them to see, and for expecting those same people to respect their "rights".

They are not going to see the love, the enjoyment between partners, the freedom of expression...they are going to see an abusive jerk of a man humiliating his battered, controlled, scared wife/girlfriend. No amount of education or exposure is ever going to change that knee-jerk reaction for society at large because it is just too out there, too complicated, too UNIQUE to the people directly involved to understand without being wired that way yourself. I'm all for freedom to the right to express oneself in public...I've mentioned before that Ma'am will slap me in public if she deems it necessary to correct me, but we also understand that it may be misunderstood and make the efforts to avoid such a situation. Not to conform to what the public expects of us, but to avoid creating unwanted problems for ourselves and being respectful of the public ignorance towards what we share.

 

[CutieMouse]

For some reason, showing up at Starbucks in full leathers/a leather corset doesn't tweak me one bit, but the whole "ohh lookie at me my slave's on a leash" thing does - and yes, I consider walking into Starbucks with a sub/slave on a leash to be a "lookie at me" thing.

 

[Netzach]

For some reason, showing up at Starbucks in full leathers/a leather corset doesn't tweak me one bit, but the whole "ohh lookie at me my slave's on a leash" thing does - and yes, I consider walking into Starbucks with a sub/slave on a leash to be a "lookie at me" thing.

Is it the line between presentation and enactment?

Like the difference between a butch and femme sharing a hot kiss in the rain and you happen to drive by versus a butch and a femme fucking in the park in broad daylight?

 

[CutieMouse]

Is it the line between presentation and enactment?

Like the difference between a butch and femme sharing a hot kiss in the rain and you happen to drive by versus a butch and a femme fucking in the park in broad daylight?

Yes! There are public displays that don't even make me blink, because it doesn't invade my mental space, and then there are public displays that could be somewhat low on the "freak-o-meter" that would annoy the ever lovin' shit out of me, and I'd find offensive... which would be part of why my best friend consideres me the kinkiest prude she's ever known. LOL

 

[FurryFury]

As a mother with kids who dye their hair all different sorts of colors including blue, who lives in the Deep South, The Bible Belt if you will I must say that most people around here find all of the things mentioned shocking.

Fortunately, they tolerate them to the point of crossing the street to avoid such things as if their children will be tainted if they come too close. This versus beating up the offenders is tolerance of a kind. The fear level is strong and high just for colored hair alone.

Seeing two gay people kissing or BDSM walking the dog on a leash sort of things would be huge around here. Personally I find displays which are done to show off or tweak people irritating and stupid.

I tell my kids if you are going to do these things then it's on you to deal with the reactions you get.

LOL.

Fury

 

[CutieMouse]

I tell my kids if you are going to do these things then it's on you to deal with the reactions you get.

LOL.

Fury

Wise Mama.

 

[the captians wench]

I think we have talked about this subject before a bit.

I wear my collar all the time, and have even been known to go out in cuffs. But with the attire I wear collar and cuffs tend to blend in. It's a style thing in most people's eyes, and I'm not one to just walk up to some one and correct them when they ask where I bought my "bracelets". I smile, and tell the where I got them. I've even had people comment how much they love my "necklace". Again, I smile and say thank you. My 5 year old nephew thinks they're "cool" and my 2 year old niece hardly recognizes me with out the collar. A few of my younger cousins ask questions, but they are mostly so shy about anything sexual being spoken out loud that they would rather believe it's just a fashion thing.

My mom was aware of bdsm before I got into it, so she has vauge ideas about different things. But we are very open with each other. More like sisters or best friends than mother/daughter. It bothered her at first, but she realized that it was important to me, and she got used to it. Along with other choices I made in my life and in my dress. She's even helped me pick out collars, and given me tips on my clothes even tho they are very much not her thing.

The rest of my friends and family pretty much choose how much they know or let on they know. Some are totally clueless, some know more than they let on, and some are major kinksters. The way I dress, act and speak infront of them is no different than I do infront of any one else.

I did wear my collar to work, and still wear it in when I'm off the clock, and I do tend to wear it to casual crew functions. But seeing as a leather collar does not fit into the business world's idea of proper dress, and I would like to move up to a position where I am not in a store anymore, I modified my collars. I have 3 chokers that I'll wear to work, or I'll wear the broach that Jounar sent me for Christmas as a collar button (I go with the broach more often since recieving it).

I wear corsets as part of my every day wear, and half my tops are bodices. It's just me. Infact this lates bodice I made and was prepairing to wear I thought might be a bit over the top, but I loved it. So i asked my mom what she thought, she agreed it was a bit much for every day, but that made it so much more me. My whole personality is very bubbly and full of expression, and my wordrobe reflects that.

I'm also a very affectionate person. I will walk down the street with other wrapped around his arm. We might exchange pecks here and there, and he may hold me while we wait for a bus or something. If we are in a dark cornor, we may sneak in a longer kiss. And I've done quite a bit in the back seat of a moving car (tho I probably wouldn't repeat most of those actions).

I don't like to be censored, but I do try to be respectful of other people. If I want to wear my cuffs, I'll wear them. But I'm not going to go out in preppy clothes with leather manacles on. If I want to kiss my lover, I'll kiss him. But I'm not going to make out with him in the middle of the street at noon.

by all means, be yourself, but also be respectful and mindful of other people.

 

[Netzach]

I guess I grew up with a different notion of the public sphere and public space, because it is a walking culture, it is a street based culture. Just because you can see someone doing something in plain sight doesn't mean they're doing it there *because* you can see it, they are doing it *in spite of the fact* you might see it. Those are two different things, to me. I had a guy expose himself to me at the mid-manhattan library in the stacks. SO not ok. I've also seen a guy whip it out and whizz on a wall after bar close. Personally, while it's kind of declasse it's just life, he wasn't waving it AT me.

 

[graceanne]

Yes, they are offended but it is impossible to shield people from everything that offends them. There will always be someone who is offended by something.

i think that the leash thing might be taking it a little far. That probably is just play and should be left at home. Still, if someone chose to do it, i don't think that would be a problem. There is nothing bad about it. People just don't like it and that is their own opinion.

There is nothing bad about sex, either, but I'm still not going to do it in front of my kids or in public. Their's nothing wrong with a lot of things you just don't do in front of children. Their's nothing wrong with taking a piss, but if you do it in public you're gonna get in trouble. Heck if you're gonna do everything that's ok, why not run around stark naked all the time? There's nothing wrong with it.

 

[graceanne]

I want to say, that with everything said, that I wouldn't be that upset if someone walked around on a leash in front of my kids. I don't approve and I sure don't think it's inapropriate. Frankly I'd tell my kids that whoever just wants attention so to ignore them. Of course my kids are young, if they asked more questions I'd tell themto ask me while the younger ones aren't about.

 

[ammre]

Eh, is it wrong that i just kinda find it tacky?
I have to admit I was shocked when i came to that revelation becasue i DON'T like changing for others. I had shaved my head, I have big ears and scarred/tattooed skin and piercings and really bad style... I don't like thinking, "well i have to look this way for someone else", especially for someone elses kids.
BUT
There's degrees of representation...
If i go to a chuck-e-cheese, a place that's geared towards children, I'm not going to wear something that's going to require extra, vaguely innappropriate, explination.
If i go to a mall, a place geared for all, i'm not going to wear my sexual toys, but maybe a representation, like a toned down collar, or an acknowlagement with my Dom that i need to be 4 feet to his left/back at all times, as if i was on a leash.
If I was to go to church, i'd avoid wearing my gay-pride shirt and a miniskirt, and maybe opt for the knee length skirt and a gay pride bracelet.
If i went for a job interview, i'd take out my obivious piercings and replace the others with subtle or smaller jewelry.
If i was going to a club, oh hell yeah, bring on the cuffs...

It's not about dissapearing from the spectrum so much as not making yourself a beakon for "LOOK AT ME I"M STRANGE AND DIFFERENT"
bending, not breaking the rules... To quote the lovely ani difranco: "Buildings and bridges were made to bend in the wind. To withstand the world that's what it takes. All that steel and stone, are no match for the air, my friend, what dosne't bend brakes, what dosen't bend brakes..."

p.s. I dislike kids, I would dance for joy if i woke up one morning and my uterus magically disappeared, but even more-so i dislike parents who don't try to explain things to their kids. Children these days are raised by their friends, the media, any siblings they may have, and their parents. Parents have very little grip on who their child grows up to be, but they have more grip if they are the first ones to explain things. Don't make your kids learn through their friends and through tv. Worst comes to worst, use humor... "Why is that lady on a leash you ask... oh well, he probably just dosne't want her to get lost, like those little baby leashes or a dog leash..."

 

[serijules]

Just because you can see someone doing something in plain sight doesn't mean they're doing it there *because* you can see it, they are doing it *in spite of the fact* you might see it.

Very well said. This sums up how it works in my relationship to a T.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I guess I grew up with a different notion of the public sphere and public space, because it is a walking culture, it is a street based culture. Just because you can see someone doing something in plain sight doesn't mean they're doing it there *because* you can see it, they are doing it *in spite of the fact* you might see it. Those are two different things, to me. I had a guy expose himself to me at the mid-manhattan library in the stacks. SO not ok. I've also seen a guy whip it out and whizz on a wall after bar close. Personally, while it's kind of declasse it's just life, he wasn't waving it AT me.

LOL, but these things for me are not particular to Manhatten...I actually have had both those things happen in front of me and it was in a rather family oriented type area of suburbia in a rather ordinary small city in Oz where we lived...and yes, on all occasions those people who chose that behaviour were doing it for attention and were very obvious and prepared to go out of their way for a reaction. Then I come to The Netherlands and find I have to get used to men walking into the women's public toilets, women walking into men's public toilets, people squatting in the car parks of service stations and by the side of the motorway with no effort at concealment or any thought it might offend anyone and definately not for shock value....I had to laugh when we passed a lovely executive type women on the side of a busy motorway, standing in broad daylight beside her car hitching up her pantyhose and smoothing down her exec styled suit after a piss, and politely going on her way as if nothing had happened. My mother would have the vapours here!!

Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Eh, is it wrong that i just kinda find it tacky?
I have to admit I was shocked when i came to that revelation becasue i DON'T like changing for others. I had shaved my head, I have big ears and scarred/tattooed skin and piercings and really bad style... I don't like thinking, "well i have to look this way for someone else", especially for someone elses kids.
BUT
There's degrees of representation...
If i go to a chuck-e-cheese, a place that's geared towards children, I'm not going to wear something that's going to require extra, vaguely innappropriate, explination.
If i go to a mall, a place geared for all, i'm not going to wear my sexual toys, but maybe a representation, like a toned down collar, or an acknowlagement with my Dom that i need to be 4 feet to his left/back at all times, as if i was on a leash.
If I was to go to church, i'd avoid wearing my gay-pride shirt and a miniskirt, and maybe opt for the knee length skirt and a gay pride bracelet.
If i went for a job interview, i'd take out my obivious piercings and replace the others with subtle or smaller jewelry.
If i was going to a club, oh hell yeah, bring on the cuffs...

It's not about dissapearing from the spectrum so much as not making yourself a beakon for "LOOK AT ME I"M STRANGE AND DIFFERENT"
bending, not breaking the rules... To quote the lovely ani difranco: "Buildings and bridges were made to bend in the wind. To withstand the world that's what it takes. All that steel and stone, are no match for the air, my friend, what dosne't bend brakes, what dosen't bend brakes..."

p.s. I dislike kids, I would dance for joy if i woke up one morning and my uterus magically disappeared, but even more-so i dislike parents who don't try to explain things to their kids. Children these days are raised by their friends, the media, any siblings they may have, and their parents. Parents have very little grip on who their child grows up to be, but they have more grip if they are the first ones to explain things. Don't make your kids learn through their friends and through tv. Worst comes to worst, use humor... "Why is that lady on a leash you ask... oh well, he probably just dosne't want her to get lost, like those little baby leashes or a dog leash..."

i don't think just because i don't feel like explaining to my 5 year old or my 11 year old for that matter why some woman is being lead around on a leash makes me a bad parent who doesn't explain things to her children. there are just some things children at that age do NOT need to know. and we can tell our kids things all we want, we can teach them right from wrong, but that does not mean they will not make their own choices be them good or bad and if you've done all that you could to ensure your children know right from wrong etc..and they make the wrong choices, that is not the parents fault.

i got pregnant at 15...i assure you it had NOTHING to do with the way i was raised. i knew better, was taught better, but i CHOSE to make the decisions i made. i know this is off topic but i get sick of hearing (especially from those who do not have kids) how it's the parents fault when a child messes up or makes a wrong decision. and as a parent there are just some things i don't think i should be forced to 'explain'. chances are my kids wouldn't say anything anyway, my 5 year old might, but we'd just laugh it off and move on, but the point is, why put it out there?? i don't need to wear BDSM gear to know who i am, and i don't care if anyone else knows the 'lifestyle' that i am in either or if they accept it, i couldn't care less. and honestly i understand why they don't 'understand' it. ok i'm getting off my soapbox now, sorry, just had to put my 20 cents in

 

[Kailey_86]

Catalina, i am highly offended by your comment but that is your own opinion and you are entitled to it. That's all i'm going to say.

Netzach, i liked the way you said this: "Just because you can see someone doing something in plain sight doesn't mean they're doing it there *because* you can see it, they are doing it *in spite of the fact* you might see it." Worded nicely.

the captains wench, i agree with you as well. If you are comfortable in what you are wearing and you aren't ACTING strangely, i think people will be much more accepting. If you go out in BDSM gear and act as if it isn't out of the ordinary, people will be a little warmer IMO. It shows that you aren't trying to parade around and get attention. It's just normal for you. Like you said, it's part of your personality and who you are.

i think that taking a sub out on a leash can be done so it doesn't attract too much attention. There are ways to do things like this while still being respectful of the general public. The sub and Dom can walk close to each other so the leash isn't seen so much. The leash can be put under the clothing. Stuff like that. If someone happens to see it, they aren't going to be scarred for life. The same goes for if they saw a couple who were obviously flaunting the fact that the girl is on a leash. It's not doing any permanent damage. The person will forget about relatively quickly. i am not saying that taking a sub out on a leash is such a great idea, like i said before, but it shouldn't be that big of a deal either.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

LOL, but these things for me are not particular to Manhatten...I actually have had both those things happen in front of me and it was in a rather family oriented type area of suburbia in a rather ordinary small city in Oz where we lived...and yes, on all occasions those people who chose that behaviour were doing it for attention and were very obvious and prepared to go out of their way for a reaction. Then I come to The Netherlands and find I have to get used to men walking into the women's public toilets, women walking into men's public toilets, people squatting in the car parks of service stations and by the side of the motorway with no effort at concealment or any thought it might offend anyone and definately not for shock value....I had to laugh when we passed a lovely executive type women on the side of a busy motorway, standing in broad daylight beside her car hitching up her pantyhose and smoothing down her exec styled suit after a piss, and politely going on her way as if nothing had happened. My mother would have the vapours here!!

Catalina

LOL..wow...that's alot to get used to, things like that just don't happen around here. i mean sure, if you're traveling and there is not a rest area anywhere near, we've pulled over and used the side of the road or whatever, but to just 'go' on the way to work or whatever ..wow..that'd take some getting used to for me ..LOL ...i come from a small town in the midwest US so yea, that stuff, not cool.....

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Catalina, i am highly offended by your comment but that is your own opinion and you are entitled to it. That's all i'm going to say.

Netzach, i liked the way you said this: "Just because you can see someone doing something in plain sight doesn't mean they're doing it there *because* you can see it, they are doing it *in spite of the fact* you might see it." Worded nicely.

the captains wench, i agree with you as well. If you are comfortable in what you are wearing and you aren't ACTING strangely, i think people will be much more accepting. If you go out in BDSM gear and act as if it isn't out of the ordinary, people will be a little warmer IMO. It shows that you aren't trying to parade around and get attention. It's just normal for you. Like you said, it's part of your personality and who you are.

i think that taking a sub out on a leash can be done so it doesn't attract too much attention. There are ways to do things like this while still being respectful of the general public. The sub and Dom can walk close to each other so the leash isn't seen so much. The leash can be put under the clothing. Stuff like that. If someone happens to see it, they aren't going to be scarred for life. The same goes for if they saw a couple who were obviously flaunting the fact that the girl is on a leash. It's not doing any permanent damage. The person will forget about relatively quickly. i am not saying that taking a sub out on a leash is such a great idea, like i said before, but it shouldn't be that big of a deal either.

*shrugs* to me, it's a big deal and disrespectful almost rude....but again..that's me. i don't think anyone should be forced to accept our way of life and forcing it on them is wrong of us and that is why i said earlier it gives us in the lifestyle a bad name. to me, it looks entirely too much like attention seeking.

don't get me wrong, there were plenty of times when we were in public that we'd be walking down the sidewalk or through the mall or whatever and Master would reach behind me and grab under my hair and pull it and then whisper in my ear 'all subbies must be on a leash' LOL..it was, however done in fun and as a joke between us and it didn't get any glances our way because we were not 'putting it out there' so to speak for everyone to see. i don't know...i am enjoying the discussion though and seeing the different points of view...it's interesting...

 

[Kailey_86]

*shrugs* to me, it's a big deal and disrespectful almost rude....but again..that's me. i don't think anyone should be forced to accept our way of life and forcing it on them is wrong of us and that is why i said earlier it gives us in the lifestyle a bad name. to me, it looks entirely too much like attention seeking.

don't get me wrong, there were plenty of times when we were in public that we'd be walking down the sidewalk or through the mall or whatever and Master would reach behind me and grab under my hair and pull it and then whisper in my ear 'all subbies must be on a leash' LOL..it was, however done in fun and as a joke between us and it didn't get any glances our way because we were not 'putting it out there' so to speak for everyone to see. i don't know...i am enjoying the discussion though and seeing the different points of view...it's interesting...

Yes, i am enjoying seeing the different points of view as well. i find my opinions changing a little bit as i read them. i still have to agree with Netzach for the most part though.

 

[intothewoods]

Interesting discussion.

Perhaps because I also live in a city, I have a view similar to Netzach's:

I guess I grew up with a different notion of the public sphere and public space, because it is a walking culture, it is a street based culture. Just because you can see someone doing something in plain sight doesn't mean they're doing it there *because* you can see it, they are doing it *in spite of the fact* you might see it. Those are two different things, to me. I had a guy expose himself to me at the mid-manhattan library in the stacks. SO not ok. I've also seen a guy whip it out and whizz on a wall after bar close. Personally, while it's kind of declasse it's just life, he wasn't waving it AT me.

I have to say I'm not wild about the idea of making our standards for what is acceptable equivalent to what is appropriate for a child. There are plenty of things on the street that might be upsetting for children, inappropriate for children, annoying for children or whatever. I might say - "huh, isn't that weird, let's go this way" or "I have no idea why that woman is on a leash" or, "look, a chocolate chip cookie!" I suppose my comfort level there reflects the fact that I prefer to live in a city. If I really weren't okay with the chance of seeing such things, I might choose to live in a suburb or small town.

On the other hand, I'm pretty private about personal details. I don't have a desire to shock people (though showing off with like-minded individuals sounds fun ), and I certainly don't feel like I need to share everything with my children. While I would never pretend to be something I'm not, I enjoy my privacy.

 

[the captians wench]

Maybe this is my issue, I just don't see how this is forsing some one to accept our lifestyle. I have friends that have walked subs around the local malls. They were pretty much looked at like silly teens just goofing off. I don't think any one that wasn't already aware of the bdsm lifestyle made the connection that it was a bdsm thing. Of course the lead wasn't being tugged. The sub was just a few steps behind and the leash fell gently between them and the whole thing was very casual like. Not sure how many people really noticed anything was going on with out taking a second look. *shrug* Maybe it's just my area. I've worn my leash around my neck, with the end just dangling a bit. No one even noticed. I even took it down and played with the handle and wasn't really brought to too much attention, was more like if I was twirling my hair or something.

Maybe it's because we're a young group, so we're pretty much written off as goofy kids, but it doesn't really seem to make too much a fuss around here.

 

[CutieMouse]

I suppose it boils down to degrees of comfort. In my world (having grown up in upper middle class suburbia in the Bible Belt), I can understand doing things in spite of other's being able to observe said acts (hell, I run about tightlaced most days), but that doesn't mean I don't find certain public behaviours to be annoying, tacky, or rude. I might feel differently if I had a different background (similar to Net's, or what Cat experiences in the Netherlands), but I don't.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I suppose it boils down to degrees of comfort. In my world (having grown up in upper middle class suburbia in the Bible Belt), I can understand doing things in spite of other's being able to observe said acts (hell, I run about tightlaced most days), but that doesn't mean I don't find certain public behaviours to be annoying, tacky, or rude. I might feel differently if I had a different background (similar to Net's, or what Cat experiences in the Netherlands), but I don't.

exactly, and i think that's what this all boils down to. here, very rarely do i see anyone in 'BDSM Gear' and those that are, get talked about, and laughed at. it's mostly 'goth' kids that walk around with that stuff on. and maybe it's also because i'm 29 (i'll be 30 in April) *shrugs* to each their own i guess..