children and public displays of BDSM

[Netzach]

LOL, but these things for me are not particular to Manhatten...I actually have had both those things happen in front of me and it was in a rather family oriented type area of suburbia in a rather ordinary small city in Oz where we lived...and yes, on all occasions those people who chose that behaviour were doing it for attention and were very obvious and prepared to go out of their way for a reaction. Then I come to The Netherlands and find I have to get used to men walking into the women's public toilets, women walking into men's public toilets, people squatting in the car parks of service stations and by the side of the motorway with no effort at concealment or any thought it might offend anyone and definately not for shock value....I had to laugh when we passed a lovely executive type women on the side of a busy motorway, standing in broad daylight beside her car hitching up her pantyhose and smoothing down her exec styled suit after a piss, and politely going on her way as if nothing had happened. My mother would have the vapours here!!

Catalina

The Dutch started NYC. They didn't get to stay long. But I think this explains everything.

 

[myinnerslut]

The Dutch started NYC. They didn't get to stay long. But I think this explains everything.

LOL !!

 

[Netzach]

Interesting discussion.

Perhaps because I also live in a city, I have a view similar to Netzach's:



I have to say I'm not wild about the idea of making our standards for what is acceptable equivalent to what is appropriate for a child. There are plenty of things on the street that might be upsetting for children, inappropriate for children, annoying for children or whatever. I might say - "huh, isn't that weird, let's go this way" or "I have no idea why that woman is on a leash" or, "look, a chocolate chip cookie!" I suppose my comfort level there reflects the fact that I prefer to live in a city. If I really weren't okay with the chance of seeing such things, I might choose to live in a suburb or small town.

On the other hand, I'm pretty private about personal details. I don't have a desire to shock people (though showing off with like-minded individuals sounds fun ), and I certainly don't feel like I need to share everything with my children. While I would never pretend to be something I'm not, I enjoy my privacy.

Fuck yeah!

I am completely against making the entire world into a kindergarten. It's happening - it really is. I do not have children for many reasons. I do not feel that my behavior needs to be curbed because of what other people fear for their children - just look at the state of the internet.

I make conscious decisions about context. I don't curse or act sexual right in front of a passing class of kindergarteners but I'm not going to act someone else's idea of ladylike perfection lest the kiddies happen to walk past - it is the street, and nobody owns it. And there are much worse crimes in the world than doing something tacky.


If you can't handle the adult world, don't take your children outside.

 

[Kailey_86]

Fuck yeah!

I am completely against making the entire world into a kindergarten. It's happening - it really is. I do not have children for many reasons. I do not feel that my behavior needs to be curbed because of what other people fear for their children - just look at the state of the internet.

I make conscious decisions about context. I don't curse or act sexual right in front of a passing class of kindergarteners but I'm not going to act someone else's idea of ladylike perfection lest the kiddies happen to walk past - it is the street, and nobody owns it. And there are much worse crimes in the world than doing something tacky.


If you can't handle the adult world, don't take your children outside.

i agree. Look at how politically correct we have to be these days. i mean, come on. Enough is enough already. Someone will always be offended or unhappy no matter what. That's life.

 

[Netzach]

We crossed the streets for flailing angry schizophrenics recently dumped out of public institutions when I was a kid, crossing the street to avoid a couple of goth kids on leashes would have been a pleasure by comparison.

 

[Netzach]

LOL, well this is the type of public toilet for men you find dotted around Amsterdam and most public events/parties....took a lot of getting used to and not sure I am used to it yet!!

Catalina

Notice how beautiful and economic and sleek and mod a design. Haha.

 

[shy slave]

i don't feel the need to have the public see ME on a leash. That was just the example that the person on collarme gave. i do want to wear my collar out in public even if it is conspicuous. i still do think it should be ok to use a leash though.

If my kids did see someone on a leash and asked a question that i don't feel they need to know the answer to yet, i would tell me "i will tell you when you're older." That would be enough for them. They might still ask questions but i am the parent and i don't have to answer them. If i tell them to stop asking about it, they should drop it. If i raise my kids to be well-behaved, they will get this. They aren't going to be harmed in any way by seeing the woman on a leash. They probably see worse things on tv these days or even in advertising.

*falls on floor laughing!*

you are joking, right.

That kind of answer never ever works. It just leads to even more complicated questions.

I really can't be fussed enough to get into this conversation. Others have already expressed my view.

 

[Kailey_86]

*falls on floor laughing!*

you are joking, right.

That kind of answer never ever works. It just leads to even more complicated questions.

I really can't be fussed enough to get into this conversation. Others have already expressed my view.

If you notice, i did say that they will probably ask more questions but i am the parent and if i say stop asking, they should stop. It worked for me as a kid. i knew better than to keep asking. This might not work for the wee youngins but you can tell them something else like "they are just playing" as others have mentioned.

 

[Etoile]

You know, this planet is a very small one. We all have to live on it together. Everybody needs to show a lot more respect for everyone else. Our culture is very "I" focused. I should be allowed to do this wherever I want, I shouldn't have to see that if I don't want to. If we all had more consideration for each other, the world would be a better place.

 

[agibean]

Omfg

If you notice, i did say that they will probably ask more questions but i am the parent and if i say stop asking, they should stop. It worked for me as a kid. i knew better than to keep asking. This might not work for the wee youngins but you can tell them something else like "they are just playing" as others have mentioned.

Well, not all parents like to keep their kids quiet "or else". I remember an incident with my son, now your age, that went something like this:

"Why is our luggage on the top rack?"
"Because that's where there was room."
"Why was there room there?"
Because that man had his on the bottom."
"Why is his on the bottom?"
"Because that's where he put it."
"But WHY did he put it there?"
"Maybe it was too heavy to lift."
"Why was it too heavy?"

And so on and so on. Telling him to just stop asking would only have led to questions about WHY we wanted him to be quiet. He NEVER stopped. And today, he works in a lab testing stuff to find out the WHYS.

I've never understood the need to tell kids "because I said so." It doesn't work in the long run, unless it's to teach them parents can't be trusted to answer questions honestly-and then we wonder why kids don't trust adults.

I think your youthful thrill over discovering this great new lifestyle is causing you to do what a lot of newbies do, which is want to make every passing Tom, Dick and Harry aware of HOW GREAT this lifestyle is and how EVERYONE just just accept it, regardless of personal beliefs. But it isn't necessary. As long as it's LEGAL, I'm good.

For what it's worth, in some parts of Seattle, a woman in cuffs, collar and leash would be one of the least unusual sights. But in others, it wouldn't go over so well. While I wouldn't freak over seeing someone prancing around in them, I don't think it's really something I need to explain to my 7 year old if we walk into the nearest grocery store and see it.

 

[shy slave]

If you notice, i did say that they will probably ask more questions but i am the parent and if i say stop asking, they should stop. It worked for me as a kid. i knew better than to keep asking. This might not work for the wee youngins but you can tell them something else like "they are just playing" as others have mentioned.

My eldest son, was born asking questions and giving his opinion.

If someone had woofed at him he would have marched up and demand 'why, just as if he saw someone on a leash.'

His step mother called a 'Fucking bastard' because the more she said 'no more questions' the more he asked why he had to stop asking. He would then follow it up with his opinion on why he thought she was asking him to stop. Yes, he was pre-school, yes, I found it funny; no, I never stopped him asking anything he wanted too.
Sometimes I would play down an answer. In our house we had rules one of them being 'All questions deserve to be answered'

All I can say is every child is different, I hope yours turn out as perfectly behaved as you think they will.

 

[shy slave]

Well, not all parents like to keep their kids quiet "or else". I remember an incident with my son, now your age, that went something like this:

"Why is our luggage on the top rack?"
"Because that's where there was room."
"Why was there room there?"
Because that man had his on the bottom."
"Why is his on the bottom?"
"Because that's where he put it."
"But WHY did he put it there?"
"Maybe it was too heavy to lift."
"Why was it too heavy?"
.

This exchange echos of the very familiar.

Thank you for making me smile.

 

[callinectes]

Well, there are public displays and then there are public displays. If my child were to see a sub being led around on a leash she'd probably think it was the dumbest thing ever and laugh. I'd laugh right along with her. If she saw a sub get slapped or punched she would be very upset and I would be hard pressed to come up with an explaination that was comforting and non-revealing.

Having said that..I just don't get the whole wearing the leash in public thing and I have yet to see a reasonable justification for it. Hell, I should be able to go to the beach in a thong but I choose to keep my 40 year-old lumpy butt covered out of politeness. Why even go there?

 

[callinectes]

This exchange echos of the very familiar.

Thank you for making me smile.

Heh, ditto. We had a similar conversation just yesterday.

 

[agibean]

Heh, ditto. We had a similar conversation just yesterday.

Did either of you ever have your kiddos ask "Why do I ask why so much?"

My son said that in a crowd once and I thought people were going to hurt themselves to keep from laughing.

 

[callinectes]

Did either of you ever have your kiddos ask "Why do I ask why so much?"

My son said that in a crowd once and I thought people were going to hurt themselves to keep from laughing.

LMAO! No, she has never done that. Too funny!

 

[intothewoods]

*falls on floor laughing!*

you are joking, right.

That kind of answer never ever works. It just leads to even more complicated questions.

I really can't be fussed enough to get into this conversation. Others have already expressed my view.

In defense of Kailey, just because she doesn't have kids, doesn't mean her opinions aren't valid. Hey, maybe she'll say "because I said so" and that will be that! Everyone parents differently.

 

[intothewoods]

I am completely against making the entire world into a kindergarten. It's happening - it really is.

I know, and it drives me crazy!

 

[Etoile]

I think your youthful thrill over discovering this great new lifestyle is causing you to do what a lot of newbies do, which is want to make every passing Tom, Dick and Harry aware of HOW GREAT this lifestyle is and how EVERYONE just just accept it, regardless of personal beliefs. But it isn't necessary. As long as it's LEGAL, I'm good.

I am inclined to agree here. I think it also ties in with CutieMouse's comment about "you'll feel differently when you're 30." Which is not to say that youth and enthusiasm are somehow worse than age and jadedness...it's just the way it is for young people.

Actually, agibean, you have reminded me of a religious comparison. Have you ever noticed that the newly converted are the most ambitious evangelists? My uncle is a great example. He was raised Jewish, and his wife was raised Catholic. Neither of them was especially religious, but then one day he converted and became a Catholic.

He is SO EXCITED about being Catholic and he thinks Catholicism is SO GREAT that he has devoted his life to, and written books about, helping Catholics convert Jews into Catholicism. His zeal is overwhelming; to be honest it annoys the hell out of my mom and me. She can't talk to her own brother on the phone because all he wants to talk about is Catholicism. (For the record, my mom is Unitarian Universalist.) He used to send religious-themed birthday and holiday cards all the time until my mom said "look, we are not the same religion as you, stop sending us that stuff." Seriously, the guy is over the top.

This ties back to an incident from when I was a kid. He had converted a year or two prior, and religious icons had popped up all over his house. One was a weird gray picture, where you looked at it from one angle and saw Jesus with his eyes closed (as if dead), and you looked at it from another angle and saw the Shroud of Turin. I was probably 8 or 9 at the time, and this creeped the shit out of me.

My mom asked him if he would please turn the picture around while we were there, because it was really upsetting me. He refused, because it was HIS HOUSE and he could display whatever he liked, even if his little niece couldn't be in the same room with that thing. We ended up leaving early that day, because he just wouldn't budge.

So there's an example for you of how people new to a lifestyle are very adamant about sharing their beliefs. The picture, the cards...he had to shove it all in our faces, and we didn't appreciate it one bit. That's why I think agibean might be right about why Kailey feels the way she does...that's just how the newbies are sometimes.

 

[SweetCherry]

If you notice, i did say that they will probably ask more questions but i am the parent and if i say stop asking, they should stop. It worked for me as a kid. i knew better than to keep asking. This might not work for the wee youngins but you can tell them something else like "they are just playing" as others have mentioned.

At the age of 5 years old, my daughter asked me, "Mama, what is that thing that looks like a tiny penis on my vagina?" Not wanting to discourage the start of an open relationship where she'd always be willing to ask a question about her body or sex if she was curious, I said simply, "it's a part of you." I got in response, "But what's it CALLED? What's the name for it?" This is also a chlid who wanted to know the real name for "that hangy ball thing in the back of her throat". After 5 times of "But what's it called?" and hearing "it's part of you", I finally broke down and informed my 5 year old she had a clitoris, like every other woman in the world, which led to a minor discussion about touching it, the sensations that can come ("Does it feel good when other girls touch theirs?") and a word of warning that "it's perfectly OK, but that's something you do in the privacy of your own room", she was satified. Not all children are satified with "I'll tell you when you're older" and it can actually cause kids to NOT ask their parents questinos if they're told this too often. My daughter is now 10 1/2, and quite comfortable in asking her questions and discussing things about sex and sexuality. And as open as I am with her, I have no desire for her to have exposure to what I view as my own private business, nor to others' private business. What happens behind their walls, and in their bedrooms is their business. Exposing other people, kids or adults, to what I elect to live doesn't enthuse me.

It's just plain common courtesy, in my book. Like I tell my children. When we're in our own home, it's our "free space". That means we can have burping contests, or laugh at fart jokes or just be rude if we want to. But in public, we use our best manners and are polite and make a point to NOT be rude. At least, that's how I see it. *shrugs*

 

[lil_slave_rose]

That mother is a better woman than me. My oldest is almost three, and I would go off if someone "woofed" at him. I don't care who or what you identify as, that would fucking bug the shit out of me.

i agree completely and was my thought when i read that post as well

 

[Kailey_86]

At the age of 5 years old, my daughter asked me, "Mama, what is that thing that looks like a tiny penis on my vagina?" Not wanting to discourage the start of an open relationship where she'd always be willing to ask a question about her body or sex if she was curious, I said simply, "it's a part of you." I got in response, "But what's it CALLED? What's the name for it?" This is also a chlid who wanted to know the real name for "that hangy ball thing in the back of her throat". After 5 times of "But what's it called?" and hearing "it's part of you", I finally broke down and informed my 5 year old she had a clitoris, like every other woman in the world, which led to a minor discussion about touching it, the sensations that can come ("Does it feel good when other girls touch theirs?") and a word of warning that "it's perfectly OK, but that's something you do in the privacy of your own room", she was satified. Not all children are satified with "I'll tell you when you're older" and it can actually cause kids to NOT ask their parents questinos if they're told this too often. My daughter is now 10 1/2, and quite comfortable in asking her questions and discussing things about sex and sexuality. And as open as I am with her, I have no desire for her to have exposure to what I view as my own private business, nor to others' private business. What happens behind their walls, and in their bedrooms is their business. Exposing other people, kids or adults, to what I elect to live doesn't enthuse me.

It's just plain common courtesy, in my book. Like I tell my children. When we're in our own home, it's our "free space". That means we can have burping contests, or laugh at fart jokes or just be rude if we want to. But in public, we use our best manners and are polite and make a point to NOT be rude. At least, that's how I see it. *shrugs*

Oh i feel the same way. Some people were saying how they wouldn't want to explain that to their children. If they don't, come up with something. Like i said earlier, i was told about the whole reproductive system and the birds and the bees when i was 6. i have a VERY open and honest relationship with my mom now. i have talked to her in depth about a lot of things around the topic of sex. i think it's healthy for kids to know. If they are asking, answer them. It doesn't have to be in detail. If they ask for more detail, give it to them.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

You say that kids shouldn't be exposed to this stuff until their later teen years but i've seen kids wearing BDSM garb in middle school and even elementary school. They probably don't know what it means but they got the idea from somewhere. i have heard younger kids talking about sex and other things that they shouldn't know about at such a young age as early as 3rd grade. i don't think it can be avoided. If it's not us, it will be someone else. Not saying that we should be the ones to warp their precious minds, just saying that they are bound to find out about stuff like this, whether it be sex or BDSM, early on with or without us.

you're right they will, but why flaunt it in front of them?? that is just silly in my eyes and makes me wonder why on earth you'd think it's ok just because 'someday they are gonna find out about it anyway' my daughter is 13, and i tell her a whole lot. she knows all about sex, and i even joke with her about it sometimes, she's knows what's right and what's wrong but she'd still question someone walking through the mall with a collar and leash and on and i'd have to explain something to her that i don't want to quite yet, because she would not be happy with a 'simple' answer.....

 

[lil_slave_rose]

If you notice, i did say that they will probably ask more questions but i am the parent and if i say stop asking, they should stop. It worked for me as a kid. i knew better than to keep asking. This might not work for the wee youngins but you can tell them something else like "they are just playing" as others have mentioned.

trust me kailey, even when they are 'older' and not youngins the 'because i said so' or 'ill tell you when i'm older' or 'drop it' does not work. my daughter, as i said is 13 years old, and she still does not just 'drop' a subject..

 

[lil_slave_rose]

In defense of Kailey, just because she doesn't have kids, doesn't mean her opinions aren't valid. Hey, maybe she'll say "because I said so" and that will be that! Everyone parents differently.

no one is saying her views are not valid, but if you dont' have kids, how could you possibly know they will just mind you no matter what. you say it's over, and they just say 'ok it's over' and go on? i've never seen a child do that..ever...no matter the ways of parenting....