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JAMESBJOHNSON
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What always works is intimidation and gas chambers.
Christianity - Rewiring my Brain
- Thread starter Yasuo_
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What always works is intimidation and gas chambers.
Athalia
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I am a Christian ... almost a professional Christian, who works for a Christian organization. Yet I have had these same misgivings about some of the tenets of the Christian faith. I have come to the following conclusions over the years.
1. There is no such thing as a "Christian faith." There are many, many of them, depending on what the believer chooses to base their faith on. I am not one to say that one flavor is necessarily better than another, except that I will choose to have small respect for those whose faith differs markedly from my own. Even the Catholic Pope is now saying "Who am I to judge?" That is, I think, the right attitude to take.
2. Your soul-searching is as old as Christianity itself. Saint Augustine, Martin Luther, and George Fox all had to reconcile what they were taught with what they felt to be true. Some dogma they kept, and some they discarded wholesale. You can do that, too. Read their stories, trace their journeys.
3. None of these people came up with the Final Answer. Nor is there anybody who is likely to. So don't worry overmuch about it. And if somebody claims to have the Final Answer, he or she is likely a fraud. You have to apply the "by their works shall you know them" principle ... if what they espouse seems to you to be morally repugnant, you are free to ignore it (but you are not free to say that everybody else must be repulsed by it, too ... see #1).
4. It doesn't matter very much what you believe. What matters is how you live your life and behave toward others. That is real religion. If you practice generosity where you can, compassion where it is called for, and respect where it is deserved, then you are ahead of most of the people in the game.
1. There is no such thing as a "Christian faith." There are many, many of them, depending on what the believer chooses to base their faith on. I am not one to say that one flavor is necessarily better than another, except that I will choose to have small respect for those whose faith differs markedly from my own. Even the Catholic Pope is now saying "Who am I to judge?" That is, I think, the right attitude to take.
2. Your soul-searching is as old as Christianity itself. Saint Augustine, Martin Luther, and George Fox all had to reconcile what they were taught with what they felt to be true. Some dogma they kept, and some they discarded wholesale. You can do that, too. Read their stories, trace their journeys.
3. None of these people came up with the Final Answer. Nor is there anybody who is likely to. So don't worry overmuch about it. And if somebody claims to have the Final Answer, he or she is likely a fraud. You have to apply the "by their works shall you know them" principle ... if what they espouse seems to you to be morally repugnant, you are free to ignore it (but you are not free to say that everybody else must be repulsed by it, too ... see #1).
4. It doesn't matter very much what you believe. What matters is how you live your life and behave toward others. That is real religion. If you practice generosity where you can, compassion where it is called for, and respect where it is deserved, then you are ahead of most of the people in the game.
LadyVer
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When I told a family member that I did not believe the Bible was the inspired word of God, the response was, "You're blaspheming. I'm seriously concerned about the state of your soul." In my family, there is no room for different opinions or beliefs. I knew that anything I said wouldn't be heard or accepted. I could have responded maturely, but the best I could do on the spur of the moment was, "You are so full of bullshit."
What you're going through is something that may end up being a long-term struggle because everything you believed and how you thought of yourself and the world has changed. And this holds true for any religion that someone realizes is not what they thought, not just Christianity.
Good luck, and don't feel like you're alone. There are many who have dealt with this.
What you're going through is something that may end up being a long-term struggle because everything you believed and how you thought of yourself and the world has changed. And this holds true for any religion that someone realizes is not what they thought, not just Christianity.
Good luck, and don't feel like you're alone. There are many who have dealt with this.
Eilan
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A couple of months ago, my mother-in-law, upon learning that my husband and I are non-religious, posted on my FB timeline: "Have fun burning in hell. Sorry you're taking my son with you. I will pray for both of you. Amen." He and I both ended up blocking her, and she still calls him every couple of weeks like nothing's wrong.
Because, ya know, my husband couldn't have possibly drawn his own conclusions about such matters in the 43 years before I met him. It HAD to be my devil vagina magic.
Because, ya know, my husband couldn't have possibly drawn his own conclusions about such matters in the 43 years before I met him. It HAD to be my devil vagina magic.
NightL
smoke'n'mirrors
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that would be so worthy of the "Pin To Top" feature of FB.
NippleMuncher
Masticatus Nipplicanis
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Sammael Bard
Suit Up
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Pat your backs when a thing goes right and curse the gods when it doesn't. 
Religion isn't a one-way street. If you believe in god, have faith in him in the good times and the bad.
If you're non-religious/atheist wannabe, there is no god for you to blame. Do not bring the gods back into the fray when things start going downhill.
In the end, it's only you and the big, wide world. Your action/inaction will decide your fate, not your god. If you chose not to believe in him, don't chicken out just so you can shift the blame onto someone else. Man up, and take the responsibility.
Religion isn't a one-way street. If you believe in god, have faith in him in the good times and the bad.
If you're non-religious/atheist wannabe, there is no god for you to blame. Do not bring the gods back into the fray when things start going downhill.
In the end, it's only you and the big, wide world. Your action/inaction will decide your fate, not your god. If you chose not to believe in him, don't chicken out just so you can shift the blame onto someone else. Man up, and take the responsibility.
Darwin award nominee...
Yasuo_
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I just wanted to thank each and every one of you for posting. There was so much detail in every single one of your posts and I cannot get to everything. I read every post and I just feel a bit overwhelmed about how to go about responding. At the moment, it's very late but I at least wanted all of you to know that I appreciate all of your help. You all are very kind.
And for those who PMed me, the same goes to you. I will respond. I'm sorry for not getting back to you in a timely manner. I promise, I will reply to your PMs tomorrow.
Have a good night and thank you all again.
And for those who PMed me, the same goes to you. I will respond. I'm sorry for not getting back to you in a timely manner. I promise, I will reply to your PMs tomorrow.
Have a good night and thank you all again.
Yardley
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Lots of good food for thought here from all over the map. That is as it should be. You should listen to yourself, to others as they strike you, read, ponder. What resonates for you is what is right for you.
No need to get bogged down in considering carefully each and every possible avenue to pursue in a journey of faith and conscience. Go where you wander and be in the moment where you are.
No need to respond and process each of our comments. Feel free to just dismiss out of have anything that doesn't resonate. You don't have to even know or care why. Take what helps, discard the rest with out a thought.
If something gives you an interest in further discussion, do that, those that didn't happen to be what you need at the moment are surely not offended that your journey takes you a different way.
No need to get bogged down in considering carefully each and every possible avenue to pursue in a journey of faith and conscience. Go where you wander and be in the moment where you are.
No need to respond and process each of our comments. Feel free to just dismiss out of have anything that doesn't resonate. You don't have to even know or care why. Take what helps, discard the rest with out a thought.
If something gives you an interest in further discussion, do that, those that didn't happen to be what you need at the moment are surely not offended that your journey takes you a different way.
suckonsimon
delivering the goods
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Hey, Yasuo
Please allow me as a prayerful believer to comment just briefly:
All that overlay of the fear of hell stuff which has so got into you is ghastly and I so hate it. There is so much in 'religion' past and present which is damaging and needs naming and shaming. And then at the heart of the Christian version is this person who lived a generous, loving, risky, inclusive and gently revolutionary life.
So my respectful suggestion to you: when all that religion bugs you, filter it down to the person and the humanity of Jesus and let his story belittle all the other stuff which you are putting into the past.
The best to you - and thanks for being so brave as to start off a thread like this!
Simon
Please allow me as a prayerful believer to comment just briefly:
All that overlay of the fear of hell stuff which has so got into you is ghastly and I so hate it. There is so much in 'religion' past and present which is damaging and needs naming and shaming. And then at the heart of the Christian version is this person who lived a generous, loving, risky, inclusive and gently revolutionary life.
So my respectful suggestion to you: when all that religion bugs you, filter it down to the person and the humanity of Jesus and let his story belittle all the other stuff which you are putting into the past.
The best to you - and thanks for being so brave as to start off a thread like this!
Simon
QuidProQuo77
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What are these Christian believers doing?
...on Literotica? Aren't their morals outraged being on an immoral erotic site?
Ohhhh, the humanity!
...on Literotica? Aren't their morals outraged being on an immoral erotic site?
Ohhhh, the humanity!
oggbashan
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Being Christian does not stop you from enjoying life, including sexuality.
But people belonging some versions of Christianity are killjoys who believe you have to be unhappy and sexless to be saved.
It is better to go skiing and think of God, than go to church and think of sport.
Fridtjof Nansen
Change 'to go skiing' to 'to make love' and 'sport' to 'sex' and that justifies being on Literotica.
It is better to make love and think of God, than go to church and think of sex.
GiggLeGasm
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This was an interesting post to me because the one thing each of these hospitals have in common is that they strive to help people through scientific care that is provided with kindness and compassion. When you break it down, isn't this also a fundamentally christian view? Isn't this what the basis of many world "religions" is based upon?
Perhaps what should be questioned isn't the concept of christianity, but rather the concept of human interpretation of it. If you really break the theory down to the vibration of intention, down to kindness and compassion, you come up with a pretty universal view of how humans wish to be treated.
To the op, I'm sorry that you're struggling. Personally, I don't believe that a person's worth is defined by the religion he belongs to. It should be more about the religion that he presents to the world.
and to circle back to the hospital analogy..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDDWvj_q-o8
jaF0
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Nope. Just ask all the Priests that did certain things the Church covered up.
My big gripe about religions that are fixed on the next life is that they often take people off the hook for making things better in this life. People who believe that the script has already been written apparently believe that god is a puppet master.
I do appreciate that the current Pope is asking people to quit screwing around with wealth fantasies and to start doing something effective to address extreme poverty and global warming.
I do appreciate that the current Pope is asking people to quit screwing around with wealth fantasies and to start doing something effective to address extreme poverty and global warming.
oggbashan
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The things some of them did were wrong even without considering Christian morality or their status as authority figures (and against the law).
Sex between freely consenting adults shouldn't automatically be a sin.
There might be other issues such as cheating on a partner that would be a 'sin' but enjoying sex should not be.
Harold_Hill
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Your confusion is understandable. Because of how you were taught as a child, you are confusing the purpose of the church with the purpose of God. The purpose of the church is to give moral guidance, (based on Christian morals as outlined in the Bible), to living human beings while on earth, while the purpose of God is to give everlasting life to the human soul, (including the continuation of our consciousness), after physical death. The two are not the same.
To be a Christian, you must believe the soul exists separate from the physical body. For example: When a person dies, at the point of physical death, there is no scientific reason the body should not get up and walk, yet it does not because it is dead. Scientifically/physically there is no difference in the physical body one second before death, and one second after death. Yet the brain does not think, nor does the body move, so logically, something is gone from the body. If you are Christian, you believe this missing element that makes us living beings is the soul.
If you believe the soul exists separate from the physical body, then you can begin to understand the difference between the church and God. You can live your life as a perfect Christian according to church doctrine, but this in no way means that you will go to heaven. To go to heaven only have to except and abide by one rule, the "new covenant". To understand the new covenant, you must read it and interpret it for yourself; however, it says basically that you must accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, and no other. To break this covenant is the only sin that cannot be forgiven. God does not expect Christians to live a totally sin free life. Except for denying Jesus as God, all other sins are forgiven.
You can be a sinner, be forgiven, and go to heaven; however, you will find the church will refuse to except this. More often, the church condemns people who recognize they are imperfect and sometimes live in sin. God accepts that we are sinners and forgives our sins. This is often why people believe Christians are hypocrites. There is a difference between what the church demands of us, and what God accepts of us.
An example of what the church believes is sin, and what God believes is sin: If you were to walk into a church and say, I've been fucking my daughter, they would get out the tar and feathers and beat you to death with a Bible; however, God does not necessarily view incest as a sin. According to the Bible, Lot lived in the city of Sodom, one of the two most sinful cities on earth. God allowed Lot and his family to leave Sodom before he destroyed the two cities. God gave one rule to Lot and his family, to not look back on this city as it was destroyed. Lot's wife looked back and was killed by God for disobeying his command. Since a Lot no longer had a wife, he had sex with both of his daughters to continue his bloodline, getting at least one pregnant. The child born of incest was named Moab. According to the bible, Jesus is a direct descendent of Moab. If in the eyes of God, incest was such a terrible sin, he certainly would not have created the bloodline of Jesus from incest, nor would he have created an entire religion based on this act.
The point is, what the church considers a sin that would condemn a person to hell, is not the same thing as what God considers a sin. The preacher runs the church because that is what he gets paid to do. If he told his congregation it was OK to fuck their daughters, he probably wouldn't have a job very long; however, the preacher doesn't get to decide who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. That's God's call, not the church's call. Like it or not, hypocrisy is an integral part of the Christian religion. Live your life in the church as sin free as you can, just don't insult people by flaunting your sin in front of them. Keep it private like every other Christian, and make your peace with God.
To be a Christian, you must believe the soul exists separate from the physical body. For example: When a person dies, at the point of physical death, there is no scientific reason the body should not get up and walk, yet it does not because it is dead. Scientifically/physically there is no difference in the physical body one second before death, and one second after death. Yet the brain does not think, nor does the body move, so logically, something is gone from the body. If you are Christian, you believe this missing element that makes us living beings is the soul.
If you believe the soul exists separate from the physical body, then you can begin to understand the difference between the church and God. You can live your life as a perfect Christian according to church doctrine, but this in no way means that you will go to heaven. To go to heaven only have to except and abide by one rule, the "new covenant". To understand the new covenant, you must read it and interpret it for yourself; however, it says basically that you must accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, and no other. To break this covenant is the only sin that cannot be forgiven. God does not expect Christians to live a totally sin free life. Except for denying Jesus as God, all other sins are forgiven.
You can be a sinner, be forgiven, and go to heaven; however, you will find the church will refuse to except this. More often, the church condemns people who recognize they are imperfect and sometimes live in sin. God accepts that we are sinners and forgives our sins. This is often why people believe Christians are hypocrites. There is a difference between what the church demands of us, and what God accepts of us.
An example of what the church believes is sin, and what God believes is sin: If you were to walk into a church and say, I've been fucking my daughter, they would get out the tar and feathers and beat you to death with a Bible; however, God does not necessarily view incest as a sin. According to the Bible, Lot lived in the city of Sodom, one of the two most sinful cities on earth. God allowed Lot and his family to leave Sodom before he destroyed the two cities. God gave one rule to Lot and his family, to not look back on this city as it was destroyed. Lot's wife looked back and was killed by God for disobeying his command. Since a Lot no longer had a wife, he had sex with both of his daughters to continue his bloodline, getting at least one pregnant. The child born of incest was named Moab. According to the bible, Jesus is a direct descendent of Moab. If in the eyes of God, incest was such a terrible sin, he certainly would not have created the bloodline of Jesus from incest, nor would he have created an entire religion based on this act.
The point is, what the church considers a sin that would condemn a person to hell, is not the same thing as what God considers a sin. The preacher runs the church because that is what he gets paid to do. If he told his congregation it was OK to fuck their daughters, he probably wouldn't have a job very long; however, the preacher doesn't get to decide who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. That's God's call, not the church's call. Like it or not, hypocrisy is an integral part of the Christian religion. Live your life in the church as sin free as you can, just don't insult people by flaunting your sin in front of them. Keep it private like every other Christian, and make your peace with God.
Hypoxia
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Many belief-system Games exist. (Game: something to organize and occupy your time when you're not being productive.) (I cribbed some of this from Robert Anton Wilson.)
Each such Game, whether religious, political, economic, athletic, or artistic, has a set of Game Rules -- produced and enforced by Game Masters to serve their own interests. Game Players include audiences as well as active participants, e.g. parishioners as well as pastors play Xian Games, and soccer hooligans are enthusiastic players in their realm. If you want to play any specific Game, follow its rules. If you don't like the Rules, you can:
* cheat
* go apostate (quit)
* try to change the Rules
* schism, and start your own Game
The Judeo-Xian-Islamic world is a slag-heap of such schisms. ("Sects, sects sects! Is that all you believers ever think about!?") The same schisming / fragmentation happens with political systems and parties (think of all those GOP factions), sports (how many football types exist?), music (all the derivatives of blues), etc. All are characterized by some form of personality cult, hero-worship. Do you worship a divine channeler or media star or political figure or quarterback or economist (the ultimate perversion)? Yes, YOU may be a Game-player!
Adopt or create a belief system, a Game. Follow or invent its Rules. You want to be a Re-Born Free-Will Neo-Platonic Tasmanian Conservative Anabaptist? Go to it! Just do not expect folks in other Games to follow YOUR Rules. You don't want THEIR Rules shoved up your ass, do you?
Each such Game, whether religious, political, economic, athletic, or artistic, has a set of Game Rules -- produced and enforced by Game Masters to serve their own interests. Game Players include audiences as well as active participants, e.g. parishioners as well as pastors play Xian Games, and soccer hooligans are enthusiastic players in their realm. If you want to play any specific Game, follow its rules. If you don't like the Rules, you can:
* cheat
* go apostate (quit)
* try to change the Rules
* schism, and start your own Game
The Judeo-Xian-Islamic world is a slag-heap of such schisms. ("Sects, sects sects! Is that all you believers ever think about!?") The same schisming / fragmentation happens with political systems and parties (think of all those GOP factions), sports (how many football types exist?), music (all the derivatives of blues), etc. All are characterized by some form of personality cult, hero-worship. Do you worship a divine channeler or media star or political figure or quarterback or economist (the ultimate perversion)? Yes, YOU may be a Game-player!
Adopt or create a belief system, a Game. Follow or invent its Rules. You want to be a Re-Born Free-Will Neo-Platonic Tasmanian Conservative Anabaptist? Go to it! Just do not expect folks in other Games to follow YOUR Rules. You don't want THEIR Rules shoved up your ass, do you?
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oggbashan
Dying Truth seeker
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Should be nothing to do with one's belief system, but some churches/mosques/synagogues or whatever can have very negative views about sexual activity.
GiggLeGasm
June Cleaver Wannabe
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I remember discussing sex with my priest once when I was in a serious relationship. He told me to remember that sex is the one form of love that you don't share with the general public and, because of that, it should be used to strengthen a special bond. It wasn't until I was much older that I learned that there are church leaders/members who don't see sex as an expression of love.
jaF0
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Went to a Catholic school in a big city only because the public schools were shooting galleries back then (looooong before school shootings were national news).
Years later I got into something that went bad. The other party starting quoting scripture to 'shame' me in one way or another. I went back to the school and asked to see one of the Priests. I explained what was happening and asked if he could suggest any scripture to respond with.
He responded with a suggestion that I hit the door walking.
Years later I got into something that went bad. The other party starting quoting scripture to 'shame' me in one way or another. I went back to the school and asked to see one of the Priests. I explained what was happening and asked if he could suggest any scripture to respond with.
He responded with a suggestion that I hit the door walking.
