Cliquey

[MathGirl]

Re: Ass On The Line

Ain't this grand? Ain't this just the fucking greatest?

So I just wanted you to know the reason for what antipathy I have for you

Dear Dr M,
The antipathy you have for me is not reciprocated. I have none for you. I simply ignore it when you're in one of your mood swings.

You dislike my manners on this site. Ummm.... tough. My "one liners" that infuriate you are simply a reflection of the way I am. I'm obviously not possessed of the dazzling intelligence you display, so I do what pleases me. If I also inject a bit of humor into the site, that's fine. Some people here seem to like my manner, and it tends to piss others off. That's fine; I have no inner need to be universally adored.

As for me not stating what I think about a subject, the reason is obvious. Most serious threads here deal with literary subjects. I am not authorly, and I have absolutely no aspirations to be so. I either avoid such discussions or comment on something that's of interest to me.

Have a lovely, lovely day.
MG
Ps. You should be nice to me. I might make it public that you're a member of a certain group you wish you weren't a member of.

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Gauche, somehow I think the unnamable one does not exactly fit the criteria of a wounded, wing-dragging victim. What you seem to be implying is "if you're mean to the bully, then you're just as bad as he/she is". Well, sure. That counterattack has certainly yielded results before; they tried it with Jeffrey Dahmer.

 

[Guest]

Senorita Azul, con permiso,

I think my posts have been widely misread and exaggerated, and the commentary overdone for the content, let alone the long lost and seemingly arguable intent. FYI only (vs. discussion, debate, argument) I was bothered on a very personal level because however I appear on Lit. I am a very private and guarded woman, except with a few other now oft mentioned Lit. folk. I do not generally get personal in public, but now I feel I must, and intend this post to be the end of it for me.

I fully respect another’s privacy as well, especially Mabeuse’s, therefore I took great care and deliberation in my response to what I well read (based on personal experience) as an ill-tempered harangue on AH posters who play with each other via language and wit (perhaps too often for no more reason than that, but I will not address that issue here). At that point his original premise for the thread seemed overshadowed by his consistently splenetic need to vent. I think anyone reviewing the doc’s posts over the past several months and displaying them in a single text, with or without context, might see an extraordinarily angry and competitive middle-aged man. In my opinion, it’s there in ‘black and white’ for all to see, read, interpret, etc., or not.

As for the post to which some pages back I responded, I thought Mab. could have made his point without using fatuous statements against those he regarded as fatuous spewing ‘others’. I say “I thought” meaning it was my single opinion, yet I worked sincerely at not returning his ill concealed attitude which I believed had nothing to do with nothing, if you will. And if you don’t will, it doesn’t matter to me personally. Nothing really will not come of nothing, to abuse Shakespeare’s Lear.

I used the root word cordial with an ordinary meaning of respect, perhaps too ordinary, but if you or anyone took it otherwise I cannot say more; it seems a matter of one’s word, or interpretation thereof, against another’s. I did not want to offend Mab., nor ignore him (though I mostly do; he knows why and also would not have it publically revealed, though it would not matter to me, personally). Due to this I have felt impotent to speak up for myself; not that I felt an especial need for doing so, it’s just that you do not know me nor Mabeuse, however much you’ve explored semi-historical threads, posts, sub-texts, etc. (not to mention ‘hysterical narrators’; and I use that term merely in a literary theoretical manner). I hope Mab. and I can continue to ignore each other on any personal plane, as more often than not he writes intriguing stuff that merits thought and discussion.

I think also that my brief request to not be discussed further was also misunderstood. I meant only to ask my friends not to do so; I have no need or right to ask it of you or others on a public forum. Happily, I am now over the perturbations caused by having myself discussed too personally ('my' problemo) on a seemingly sarcastic level, however wittily spewed.

I have no comments on cliques or possible exclusions on public forums; can’t think of anything to add, so

adiós y recuerdos, Perdita

 

[cahab]

re: free speech

Oh no, it isn't!

If free speech isn't the right of anyone to say anything whether I like it or not... What is it?

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Per pieta, Perdita-

I'm glad you posted. While others will doubtless view this as an apology, I wanted to say this to you: in hindsight, I certainly could have found many better examples to illustrate my point- on the same thread even. It was definitely never intended to be a central issue- I could have presented exactly the same case without it. However it was seized upon and dragged around like a dead budgerigar, with the intent of obscuring my actual purpose.

I regret mentioning it for three reasons.

1.) It is now clear that there were extenuating circumstances between you and the Doctor unbeknowst to me- so in fact, this particular incident did not adequately illustrate my point. I think I can safely guess the nature of those circumstances, and if I were in a similar position I would doubtless feel quite "cordial" as well. On a personal level, if the man is a bitter, armchair intellectual and a chronic malcontent, I can see why it would be a case of insult to injury if someone were to come along and invalidate or question your right to feel angry or irritated at him. I don't know Dr. Mabeuse from Adam's housecat.

2.) It became an irrelevant millstone, and actually weakened my argument in the long run, as a smokescreen to allow people to gloss over the main concept- which, with all due respect, was not you at all.

3.) The little benefit gained by the inclusion of this point was not worth hurting your feelings. I am glad you didn't suffer too much undue stress over it- as I essentially told Gauche, I'm hard-pressed to view you as a shrinking violet- but one should not have to endure being bandied about as a sideline issue by third parties over a slight, and, upon further inspection, ambiguous statement.


I will not retract my premise, I think that is abundantly clear. However, I am not afraid to admit that I made an error in judgement over what I chose to highlight in illustrating that premise.

Sincerely,

mlle

(and yes, I clearly misunderstood your intentions with the request- I jumped to conclusions)

 

[cahab]

Senorita Azul, con permiso,

I think my posts have been widely misread and exaggerated, and the commentary overdone for the content, let alone the long lost and seemingly arguable intent... [some content cut]

...adiós y recuerdos, Perdita

If anyone has been offended by anything Perdita has said, can they possibly tell me where? I have been reading AH a lot over the last couple of weeks and as far as I can tell she has been considerate and inclusive to everyone, new and old. Are those who have included her in the lists reeeeeeally touchy, or is there some post that I have missed?

Sure, everyone else, including myself, has been guilty of being too quick with the put-downs somewhere, but to include Per simply because she posts a lot is rather beyond the pale.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

It's a good thing I've been out of town and didn't get caught up in this thread. I'm a bleeder.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Pure]

Buenos Dias, Perdita,

I can't claim to know you or your checkered past with Mabeuse.
You seem immensely literate, no doubt in two or more cultures, and write the buttery prose most of us envy.

That said, one does see a little flash, now and then--

Of the dagger:
//I think anyone reviewing the doc’s posts over the past several months and displaying them in a single text, with or without context, might see an extraordinarily angry and competitive middle-aged man.//

Of the innuendo:

//I did not want to offend Mab., nor ignore him (though I mostly do; he knows why and also would not have it publically revealed, though it would not matter to me, personally).//

There's a demonstration of a kind of noblesse not to reveal--nay, to protect-- the disreputable secrets of the 'extraordinarily angry... middle aged man."

Remind me how the age of a poster is relevant.
---

On a lighter note, you're often genial and friendly, if guarded. I see, however, a real effort, of the type pioneered by Math G not to seem to intelligent or highbrow, to prefer the discussion of Gauche's 'ascerbic' wit to something more substantial.

Aside from the little jabs, what you've said in the thread mostly constitutes an ignoring of the original issue of lack of substance, and dilution of threads through cutsey wit.

No doubt you'll say that topic is beneath you, and hint it's more suitable for certain plebs and detritus dwellers like myself. Perhaps you're right.

El Diablo Puro

 

[Pure]

Hi Math Girl,

you said,
As for me not stating what I think about a subject, the reason is obvious. Most serious threads here deal with literary subjects. I am not authorly, and I have absolutely no aspirations to be so. I either avoid such discussions or comment on something that's of interest to me.

I find this excessively modest, if less than your usual good humor.

Let's review:

You've made about 1400 postings to the authors forum in the last three months; about 16 per day. One every waking hour, on average.

You've posted, here at Lit, 33 stories since August of last year. Twenty four bear an "H" marking. Eight, iirc, are in the top 100 of ranked stories at "First Encounters", your favorite spot.

They're of good quality in style and mechanics, though apparently mostly quasi autobiography cum short story. The hot blonde petite protagonist is apparently the same sexy sylph as you, her youthful forthrightness and sex-talk being a real draw.

They tend to get 50-100 votes, mostly 5's, likely indicating 500-1000 readers each, though on occasion you've hit 227, indicating over 2000.

Your peak production for about a month, last fall, was 17 stories in 30 days, a fluency most of us can only envy.

I realize you have a 'rep' here to protect, and that your draw is best maintained through lots of talk of Tom and little of interpellation. But, come, come, let's not try entirely to hide your credentials and accomplishments as an amateur author**.



**as far as I know

 

[TheEarl]

>>>People do make friends here and people will tend to stick up for their friends if they’re attacked. There’s nothing more sinister than that.>>>

Isn't that sinister enough? Christ on cracker. What if the friend in question is trampling another person without merit, or trashing someone for the transient rush of intellectual superiority? What if the friend in question is being a reprehensible, shallow human being? What then? Semper fi? E pluris unum?

Et tu, Earl?

Mllede: I will defend my friends if they are being attacked by other people, but only if I think they have merit in their case. I will stick up for my friends, but not blindly.

BTW. It's not Yank football. I'm English. That's rugby, the proper sport.

Originally posted by Hiddenself
Here's my current list (in no particular order):

Oggbashan, Perdita, EnglishLady, Wildsweetone, Pop_54, MathGirl, TheEarl, Gauchecritic, Wicked-N-Erotic, Svenskaflicka

Others (Weird Harold, Octavian, dr_Mabeuse, come to mind) are also posters on the AH board but do not (always) play nice just for the sake of playing nice. That's my own defining criterion.

The big problem here is not the interminable mutual ego stroking, but rather the total avoidance (at all cost) of making any negative meaningful comment, "criticizing," or "attacking" any member of the clique -- even when perfectly justified. When there's an outside target, however, the gloves are off and getting personal does not seem to be a problem.

So, it's not the disagreeing or ostracizing per se that defines the clique for me (and makes it somewhat unappetizing). It's the insincerity, hypocricy and double standards (as I perceive them, of course).

Hiddenself: I have to say I'm insulted. You appear to be insinuating that I am someone who just posts on here to be nice to other people and to stroke other people's egos. Yes, I am nice to people and I rarely like to insult anyone. But I am utterly disgusted that you think I am being nice 'for the sake of being nice.' I am nice, because I am polite and I believe that the people I am talking to are worth being nice to. I am definitely not here to be a mindless sycophant in a clique and I doubt that that's why many of the other people on your list are here.



I'd just like to make a point: I am not part of a clique. Sounds like a stupid thing to say in the midst of all of this I know, but let me justify it. I am nice to my friends, but I'll call them when they're out of line. I'm nice to newbies. I say hello, I talk to them, what more do you want? If they wanna talk, I'll talk. I certainly don't exclude anyone and I've recently gone to a lot of effort to help some newbies who wanted story editing, so I'm not impressed with any accusations on that line. I am nice to people, but if you piss me off then I'll yell at you. What that doesn't mean is that I'll ignore you later. I'll still talk to you and I'll keep an open mind.

I dislike having my character impugned. Apart from patronising me because of my age, it's the one guaranteed thing to set me off. I am a good person, I am honest and open with people and I dislike any implication that I am otherwise.

[/rant]

Breathe Earl, breathe.

The Earl

 

[Gabriel_Lee]

Originally posted by cahab
If free speech isn't the right of anyone to say anything whether I like it or not... What is it?

It's the right for me to disagree with you.

Don't take things so seriously.

GL

 

[Why]

It's the right for me to disagree with you.
GL

Quite true, but with it goes the responsibility for your words and the affect they have on others. Free speech is well and fine as long as we realise that we can do as much harm as good in the practise of it.

Yes you can take it too seriously, but then often people don't take others opinions seriously enough.

 

[Gabriel_Lee]

This is all true, Why. But knowing it and getting it right in all cases and for all people simultaneously may well be impossible.

This requires understanding on the part of others, not just ourselves.

GL

 

[Why]

This is all true, Why. But knowing it and getting it right in all cases and for all people simultaneously may well be impossible.

This requires understanding on the part of others, not just ourselves.

GL

I agree, that is why I try to be "me" on a board, like it or lump it, what you read is what you get. If some is an arse I ignore them unless they get up my nose so much I start to choke. If I like someone I like them period, that doesn't stop me calling them an arse if they behave like one, though I more likley to do that by PM than on the boards.

Don't know folks here that well yet, will take me a good few months of reading to "understand" by then most will be wishing me dead.

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Hey Earl. You're right, that is rugby. I didn't look closely enough and assumed it was a "soccer" picture- that's the usual obsession. But it is clearly not American football, I grant you that much- my double x chromosomes notwithstanding, I'm able to recognize the lack of helmets and padding. My uncle snapped a finger off playing rugby. He looked very surprised, though he did catch the ball.

 

[TheEarl]

My uncle snapped a finger off playing rugby. He looked very surprised, though he did catch the ball.

The big question is whether he scored when he caught the ball .

It's not my usual kind of av. Usually my avs involve Red Dwarf in some way. This is just homage to England's superlative wins in the SH. It'll change soon.

The Earl

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Re: Re: Ass On The Line

Ps. You should be nice to me. I might make it public that you're a member of a certain group you wish you weren't a member of.

Let's see: North American Man-Boy Love Association? No, I quit that. Cross-dressing Bed-wetters? I'm proud to be a member. The Large Animal Sexual Advocacy Council? That's in my CV. The Republican Party? Never been a member.

The DurtGirl Nation/Clique International?? Now that's low, MG, that's really low.

---dr.M.

 

[cahab]

It's the right for me to disagree with you.

Don't take things so seriously.

GL

OH. You need to insert the odd smiley here and there. Especially there. Here already has one, see:

 

[Gabriel_Lee]

cahab

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

You had me trembling at "Republican".

Although I propose a new story challenge; to write an accompanying narrative to the promising title:

"The Dread Secret of Dr. Mabeuse"


Earl..."What a guy!"

Strictly butter-side up, of course.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

How tedious.

My issue with Perdita has little to do with my feelings about the chattiness on the board, but if you want to know what it is, I have no reluctance about discussing it. I jujst thought it was of no interest to people at large.

Perdita was good enough to help me through a truly life-threatening depressive episode I went through about a month or so ago, when I was actually hospitalized for a couple of days as being a threat to myself. When I needed someone to talk to and vent to, she was there, and for that I'll be eternally grateful. I think she might have literally saved my life.

She asked me, or maybe suggested, that I write something about her and post it to the board, a kind of public appreciation, which I did. I was happy to do it, though it did kind of seem like an odd request.

By this time my main form of therapy was writing her tremendously long rambling screeds about my feelings on everything, telling her secrets I have told no one else in my life. You know how the anonymity of the internet works; it's quite possible to do that.

Well, shortly after posting my appreciation post, I apparently said some things about drug use--I've been a long term user and abuser and don't care who knows it--or my thoughts on marriage that she just did not want to hear or that offended her. She told me in so many words that I was full of it. I disagreed and told her to fuck off, and she told me never to write her again, a request I have respected.

But this break in relations, coming as it did so soon after my post praising her--I believe it was the following day, in fact--left me feeling that I had been somehow used; that all her sympathy had an ulterior motive. That she was somehow using me to make a name for herself on the board.

The idea is probably absurd, but so, in retrospect, is requesting that someone write you a public Attaboy note for others to see.

In any case, since then, I have avoided talking to her.

Even if we didn't have this history, I would eventually have objected to her assumption of the role of Housemother and facilitator on the board. I find it irritating. But then, I find a lot of things irritating. I stayed off the board for a while because it irritated me so much. In the end I came back.

Since then, I've just avoided her when I can.

As to being angry and middle-aged, what can I say? I believe that no one sjhould criticized for those things they cannot change, and I'm sure Perdita didn't mean them as criticisms but as statements of fact, which they are. I run on anger and rage; it's what motivates my writing and my life and I pay the price for it. There's really nothing I can do about it. I think I do a pretty good job of toning it down here. Usually it's directed at myself: hence the hospitalization. No, I am not well-adjusted by any stretch of the imagination and I don't want to be.

And middle-aged? Yes. 57 years. I'm not happy about it, but there's nothing I can do about it, is there? (except lie which I often do).

Armchair intellectual? As opposed to what? An outdoors intellectual? Sure. Why not. What the fuck do I care what you call me?

Maybe it's because I'm in such a rage and because I'm middle aged that I'm so passionate about what goes on here, and so impatient with people idling along blowing kisses to each other and sharing private jokes. I take my writing very seriously. It's about all I have right now, and it means a lot to me. Sometimes, on my good days, I see myself as being dedicated to producing a real literature of the erotic, or exploring what sex means to human beings; and other times, on my bad days, I see myself as a pitiful middle-aged amateur pornographer with nothing better to do than hang around this site and pretendthat it means something. Of course, I was feeling the latter when I was thinking of snuffing myself.

For all my fans out there in Lit land, the law requires that I seek certain follow through treatment after my hospitalization, which I am doing. I'm still trying to find an anti-depressant that works, but it's a long and tedious process, at least in my case, and until I do it's so-so days and bad days, with the occasional really bad day thrown in.

So that's my story. Any questions, feel free to PM me.

Please, no fucking hugs though. I really don't want sympathy.

---dr.M.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Oh yeah: I don't want to lay the bathos on too thick, but when I was going through this crisis--and if you have never been seriously depressed you have no idea of how bad it can be; you're not thinking of suicide to make a dramatic statement, you just want the pain and anguish to stop--I did post something to the Author's Board inviting help. Something about what do you do when you feel that everything you've done here is worthless crap.

I got a couple of serious answers before the fun began, and then the thread was lost.

So I guess I'm kind of sensitive to that kind of happy hijacking.


---dr.M.

 

[wildsweetone]

Please, no fucking hugs though. I really don't want sympathy.

---dr.M.

*hugs*

no, not from sympathy, but from understanding.

 

[MathGirl]

Huggy, huggy ....... oops

Dear Dr M,
Believe it or not, you are one of the people whose presence here I truly value. You have your ups and downs, but the mean is sort of a well-conceived, good natured misanthropy that I like very much.

Whether you like it or not, you have my respect and affection. You make yourself as difficult to like as possible, but it just doesn't work on me.
MG

 

[Guest]

hopefully finally

Mabeuse, thanks for the airing. I don't agree with all you've said about me (personally) but that's between a 'you and me' that doesn't exist anymore and therefore no one else's business either.

I really do appreciate your above narrative as it will prevent me from further receipt of PMs like this:

You and Dr Mab, eh?
Perdita, you are a tease. You've got my imagination going.

So, everyone, I have never met Mab. in person, nor have we even spoken on the phone. There was nothing romantic or sexual between us and I was glad to be of help to him at a critical time.

However, he is speaking up on a couple other interesting threads (i.e., of interest to me) and I hope to join the conversation. Now I am relieved at not having to pussyfoot so painfully.
-----------------

Publicly I want to say I appreciate La Pluma Azul's response to me and that I intend to write privately to her.

'pure' I will completely ignore.

And for those who need another bone, nowever dry, stiff or idle (and have not been paying attention to such banal stuff), I am crazy in love and lust with Pops and it's satisfyingly mutual despite the language barrier and our timezones.

Perdita