Coming out Poly, BDSM style....

[intothewoods]

Well, all of us here have considered and made decisions about who to tell about our "alternative lifestyle," whatever that may be.

It is complicated and the more people involved, whether partner, friend, children, lover, occasional playmate, whatever, the more people you have to consider.

Whatever the particular lifestyle or life choice at issue, if your sexuality and sexual exploration aren't static, a certain amount of constant examination and negotiation are going to be a part of your life. I personally do not like that feeling of things being undecided, but I'm starting to accept it and realize it's just part of life.

 

[Netzach]

It's certainly not always the case, mind you, but amongst the mothers in my suburban backyard? Oh yeah. One kinky poly dad I know has the multiple partners, and the wife has play partners, but has less time to devote to another relationship. She's the primary caretaker, she works, she does the bills, etc. A non-kinky dad I know is a golf nut and is away practically every weekend playing in a tournament. Does the wife/mom have that time? No.

I can't fathom not taking it anyway, insisting on it, or selling off golf clubs to pay for childcare so I can get out once in a while.

I also maintain close relationships only with people I don't have to invent stories with. The only time H had to be kind of an unexplained friend was in front of hospital nurses. Frankly I don't care and I don't think they did. I had to ask them to keep my mother out of there at one point and they did, not him.

 

[caela]

I got very lucky when it can to "coming out" as kinky to my family and friends. I had a pretty small circle of close friends to begin with and most of them just sort of looked at me and went "Yeah, we sort of figured that out already, pass the bread would ya." It left me shocked at how accepting they were. Some of them even went so far as to look up books or websites fro me while I was still going through the whole "reading everything you can find" phase a couple of years ago.

My family I hadn't intended to tell at all however I bought and emblem necklace and was wearing it one day when visiting my mother and she asked about it. While I may divulge certain information readily I also don't lie to my folks when asked a direct question. I tried to give her an out and told her it had to do with my sex life and that she probably didn't really want an answer but she pressed for one....So I told her.

And was floored when she thought it was absolutely the most amusing thing she'd heard in months!!! When my stepdad got home from work that night she was still amused by it and made me tell him too! By the end of the night we were laughing about it and they still tease me if I show up with interesting marks or bruises.

My dad also knows but he and I have a much more open relationship than I have with my mom and he was actually one of the first I told. My younger brothers also know because they made an impromptu visit one day and I had a wartenberg wheel (it had just come in the mail that day so I hadn't put it away yet!) sitting out by my computer and they asked what the hell it was! They just sort of stared at me for a few minutes and then shrugged it off saying they always knew I was weird...oh and that the wheel was cool and could I buy them both one lol.

 

[Homburg]

Yeah, when I told my friends they were utterly unsurprised. "Dominant? You? Colour me shocked," was the general tone of the response.

 

[rida]

I agree that poly and BDSM are two different things when it comes to coming out.

BDSM, like your sex life, is not something that need to be discussed, not even explained. If you live it 24/7 TPE, you might have to come up with some explanation for your deferring all decisions to your partner, and I can see it might be a bit more complicated for a male submissive/female Dominant couple than vice versa.

But being in a poly arrangement, even without going into the details of who sleeps with whom, it is going to be more of a issue that need addressing. Surely it is nobody's business, and surely who cares about the rumors. But in reality, we do have to, as they can have a negative impact on our lives and the one of our loved ones.

It is really too bad that not many people are willing to just accept it without having to judge it negatively. But as it has been pointed out, for the majority of the population, there is no positive paradigm to reference a poly-relationship to. Too many people have suffered because being cheated upon or left for someone else, and their experience colors their views. Too many people put all their worth and self-esteem in their relationship and in their partner, and the mere thought of them looking at someone else chips away at it, making them feel less worthy. Too many songs, fairy tails, novel and archetypes focus on the eternal monogamous undying loyal love. And too many people are afraid of what is different because it forces them to take a look at themselves, to really think about their values and their life with honesty, and it is not an easy thing.

I have a good friend from my college days. She knows I always had boys on the side while being with my bf. After many years of minimal communications, we are back to chatting with each other about our lives. She is totally not judgmental and sexually adventurous, and yet when I asked her about poly, her answer was that "if you really love someone, than nobody else exists in your eyes".

I am not saying that everybody should be poly. Different things for different folks. It would just be nice if people would take it as a viable choice, like getting married or not, divorcing or not, working corporate or on your own, etc.

 

[EmpressFi]

it is easy to say dont tell a soul. it is also easy to say tell everyone and fuck what they think. its much harder to do either one. its harder still to find the right balace.

as far as the telling goes, in a poly relationship you have the opinion of one who was in the relationship first. in this case they would be telling people that they are bringing in a third person. they risk getting told they arent good enough for thier partner. they risk being accused of cheating or adultury. they risk being told that they had failed to the point where a third person is neccessary to somehow save thier relationship.

then there is the person joing the trio. they risk being told they are breaking up the relationship. that they are a bad influence. that they are a homewrecker. they get accused of trying to steal one or the other of the "original pair". they risk being told that they must not be good enough to find a "regular" sig. other. and if the first couple is married then they are likely to get berated over not being able to walk down the aisle. not being able to have kids or a family. etc etc.


when it comes to hiding it (and i do mean hiding, not just "not saying "becuase if you make the descision that you dont want anybody to know then you will undoubtedly find yourself in a situation where you are going out of your way however slight to hide your tracks and hide yourself. otherwise people WILL figure some stuff out eventually. not everyone is as stupid as you may assume and hope), its again not exactly an equal distribution of stress, strain and consequence. when it comes to the establilshed couple hiding thier relationship, they have to go out of thier way to make sure the third is refered to as a friend, treated as such, and described as such to activly prevent people from knowing the truth. this can get especially tricky with people that know you well, like family or old friends. these people know your moods, and making the extra effort under scrutny to keep the affection out of your look, touch, and interaction with the "hidden third" can be very tiring

hiding your relationship when your the third person, something i have just a bit of experience with, isnt exaclly the easist thing in the world sometimes. there are times when it just plain hurts to be sitting in a group of friends or at a picnic or at the park and to be relocated to the "just friends" position. while i know and understand and agree that those situations are neccessary sometimes, that knowladge only serves to lessen the difficulty by the smallest fraction. i firmly believe that having to maintain the "just friends facade" for too long woud break me. thankfully times like these are limited in my world.


i guess the point of this was to say that no matter who you are in the relationship, either choice can be difficult, hurtful, and problematic. for me, the benifits of the descisions i made far outwiegh the problems, but it wasnt and still isnt easy. and for sombody not in the situation to give a blanket "tell" or "dont tell" comes off as flippant.

I dont know whether to hug you or applaud you first.

Your post reminded me of a conversation I had with Master about his parents. How he wished they could meet me, how they would love me, but if they knew all of it, they'd never accept us or me. I too worry for him, that his local friends and family are going to think, "Poor guy, always alone" or when the.. "you should be getting married, dontcha think?" starts. I love him and dont want anyone feeling sorry for him, he just cant say.. Oh well I do have someone, but she's married and lives several states away.

I hate that to most I cant say, my lover, my boyfriend or hell..even my OSO... sometimes there are anecdotal stories that I'd love to share and have to remind myself to say, "my good friend" instead. And every time I do, it hurts a little bit more.

I agree that poly and BDSM are two different things when it comes to coming out.

BDSM, like your sex life, is not something that need to be discussed, not even explained. If you live it 24/7 TPE, you might have to come up with some explanation for your deferring all decisions to your partner, and I can see it might be a bit more complicated for a male submissive/female Dominant couple than vice versa.

But being in a poly arrangement, even without going into the details of who sleeps with whom, it is going to be more of a issue that need addressing. Surely it is nobody's business, and surely who cares about the rumors. But in reality, we do have to, as they can have a negative impact on our lives and the one of our loved ones.

It is really too bad that not many people are willing to just accept it without having to judge it negatively. But as it has been pointed out, for the majority of the population, there is no positive paradigm to reference a poly-relationship to. Too many people have suffered because being cheated upon or left for someone else, and their experience colors their views. Too many people put all their worth and self-esteem in their relationship and in their partner, and the mere thought of them looking at someone else chips away at it, making them feel less worthy. Too many songs, fairy tails, novel and archetypes focus on the eternal monogamous undying loyal love. And too many people are afraid of what is different because it forces them to take a look at themselves, to really think about their values and their life with honesty, and it is not an easy thing.

I have a good friend from my college days. She knows I always had boys on the side while being with my bf. After many years of minimal communications, we are back to chatting with each other about our lives. She is totally not judgmental and sexually adventurous, and yet when I asked her about poly, her answer was that "if you really love someone, than nobody else exists in your eyes".

I am not saying that everybody should be poly. Different things for different folks. It would just be nice if people would take it as a viable choice, like getting married or not, divorcing or not, working corporate or on your own, etc.

Something in that part I bolded made me think of my friend who knows and wondering if she's so accepting of this relationship because she really loves us... or if she thinks this is something we'll grow out of... or if it was more like.. well.. they've been doing it a while, guess they were serious..

 

[Netzach]

Something that's helped me is just using every incidence I have to say "my friend..." as an opportunity to remember that the relationship is good and strong enough that I'll pay that price if that's the price. It really does help, and it does actually shut down a lot of questioning because I can say "my friend" with more confidence and less wavering.

 

[intothewoods]

It's important to distinguish between different types of judgments.

Rida - Your friend's comments about "if you love someone..." - She's telling you what love means to her. Maybe she's projecting her issues, maybe she's only seen bad examples of poly, or maybe she's given it some thought and come to that conclusion.

For all of us, there are probably going to be people in our lives who just don't get it, for whatever reason. That's okay with me. What's not okay is shaming me, or using shame in some way to criticize me.

 

[Netzach]

It's important to distinguish between different types of judgments.

Rida - Your friend's comments about "if you love someone..." - She's telling you what love means to her. Maybe she's projecting her issues, maybe she's only seen bad examples of poly, or maybe she's given it some thought and come to that conclusion.

For all of us, there are probably going to be people in our lives who just don't get it, for whatever reason. That's okay with me. What's not okay is shaming me, or using shame in some way to criticize me.

"if you love someone you'll (do what I would do)" isn't really talking about oneself, other than maybe laying out your control issues for everyone to see, no?

 

[the captians wench]

Yup, won't be telling my family, it wouldn't help any concerned, and they don't need to know (we all love each other heaps, but don't live in each others pockets).

It's like Netzach said, I don't want people thinking there's something going on behind another's back. These thing have a way of getting around.

It's kinda kooky, nobody had problems with the open knowledge that I "played" with couples before, but I reckon the committed long term relationship thing will raise a few eyebrows.

Funny, init?

This is something I've never understood. It's okay to play with a couple, that's just experimenting. And it's okay to have a relationship with a married man, it's okay for him to cheat on his wife. But if said wife knows about it, is okay with it, and actually has a relationship with you well that's just fucking wrong!

I understand wanting to share your happiness with others but being worried about it. I'm glad I have my mom, who is the coolest mom ever. When I was involved with a couple, she insisted on meeting them. She wanted to know everything about them, and she said we weren't official until they passed the "mom test". What she told me after she met them was this, they made me happier than she had seen me in a long time, and they took very good care of me and that's all that mattered. But when it came to other friends, I was kind of limited as to what I would let them know. Most never put together that my "boyfriend" and my "friend and his wife" were actually the same person, a few of them did and just assumed that he was cheating on her, and one or two actually asked me more about it and they got the rest of the story. Tho when you walk in on your off days in a corset and collar, it gets around that you're a kinky bitch. Now I seem to be some sort of sex guru to the other managers and get asked some questiions that I know is in the "topics not to discuss" section of the Mcemployee hand book

 

[intothewoods]

"if you love someone you'll (do what I would do)" isn't really talking about oneself, other than maybe laying out your control issues for everyone to see, no?

Well, yeah, she's projecting! But the "someone" part makes me feel more comfortabe with it. I get stuff like this from a couple of my friends.

I mean, do we need our friends to never question any of our choices? I don't, although I want it to be respectfully offered.

 

[Homburg]

This is something I've never understood. It's okay to play with a couple, that's just experimenting. And it's okay to have a relationship with a married man, it's okay for him to cheat on his wife. But if said wife knows about it, is okay with it, and actually has a relationship with you well that's just fucking wrong!

This is the thing that amazes me the most too. I know people that have actively cheated on their partners and have looked askance at healthy poly relationships as somehow bad. Hell, I can think of an example or two on these boards of folks that come out against poly, and yet cheat/ed on their non-kinky spouses with their kinky partner.

Nobody is getting hurt, everybody knows, and everybody involved is cool with it. Where is the problem, eh?

 

[intothewoods]

This is the thing that amazes me the most too. I know people that have actively cheated on their partners and have looked askance at healthy poly relationships as somehow bad. Hell, I can think of an example or two on these boards of folks that come out against poly, and yet cheat/ed on their non-kinky spouses with their kinky partner.

Nobody is getting hurt, everybody knows, and everybody involved is cool with it. Where is the problem, eh?

Do they think their cheating was okay, or a bad choice?

Personally, I'm not concerned about the other partner. Presumably that person is an adult, and capable of making a fully informed decision.

 

[Homburg]

Do they think their cheating was okay, or a bad choice?

Personally, I'm not concerned about the other partner. Presumably that person is an adult, and capable of making a fully informed decision.

It's a choice. I don't really call anyone on it unless it becomes actively harmful. I will advise against it, as it causes more problems than it solves, but I won't sit there and pass judgement on someone for seeking out something they can't get at home.

I will, however, get cranky when a cheater gets on their high horse about poly though. In my world, it is a better choice ethically to be open with your partner about your extra-marital/relationship choices and desires, and not just skulk around behind their back. Being up front about it allows your partner to make an informed decision about your actions, and their exposure.

So, will I call it a bad choice? No. I won't call it a good choice either. It's situational.

And, for full disclosure, I have played with people who were not telling their SO's what they were up to. It didn't particularly bother me. I don't think that I would form a relationship with someone in a circumstance like that though.

 

[Netzach]

Well, yeah, she's projecting! But the "someone" part makes me feel more comfortabe with it. I get stuff like this from a couple of my friends.

I mean, do we need our friends to never question any of our choices? I don't, although I want it to be respectfully offered.

I don't mind being questioned on a lot of things. However, no I don't consider someone who applies their own ideas of what the ideal relationship is to MY life a friend. If I want to listen to that I can find some Dr. Laura.

I've discussed this with friends. I'm not asking for complete non-questioning but most people I know treat me as my own best expert. I've gotten "wow that has to be rough" "holy shit how do you do that???" but I don't consider those things disrespectful. I also consider them their own life's best experts.

 

[intothewoods]

It's a choice. I don't really call anyone on it unless it becomes actively harmful. I will advise against it, as it causes more problems than it solves, but I won't sit there and pass judgement on someone for seeking out something they can't get at home.

I will, however, get cranky when a cheater gets on their high horse about poly though. In my world, it is a better choice ethically to be open with your partner about your extra-marital/relationship choices and desires, and not just skulk around behind their back. Being up front about it allows your partner to make an informed decision about your actions, and their exposure.

So, will I call it a bad choice? No. I won't call it a good choice either. It's situational.

And, for full disclosure, I have played with people who were not telling their SO's what they were up to. It didn't particularly bother me. I don't think that I would form a relationship with someone in a circumstance like that though.

No, no, no. I'm not asking you what you think about their choices. I mean, are they saying, I cheated and am fine with that, but you are poly scum? Because I don't like hypocrisy. If, however, someone cheated, thinks it was a bad decision, does not do it now and would not do it again, and thinks poly is a choice they don't agree with, that's not hypocritical to me.

I have no problem with people passing judgment on actions or behavior. If my friend is doing something I think she will regret, I'll say, look, I don't think this is a good idea because of x, y and z. I do it with love and in a respectful way. A couple of my very close friends and I have these discussions all the time. Two of my friends are bi and married and contemplate going outside of the relationship without telling their husbands, because their husbands are jealous and can't tolerate it. Do I feel sympathetic to their position? Absolutely! But both of them have been through this before, and almost ruined their marriages with the lying. They love their husbands and don't want to hurt them. They also don't want to get divorced and break up their homes (they have kids).

Will I love them no matter what? Yes, of course. But I still tell them I don't think they should do it, and instead I think they should just keep talking and negotiating with their partners (well, one more than the other, as her husband is really open and accepting and aware of his own issues as to insecurity). I don't "pass judgment" in terms of telling them they are bad people. I do say that I think those choices will have some pretty negative consequences. And my friends do the same with me, and I treasure it, because it's done respectfully and out of love.

When people here have posted that they're "cheating" in some way, I don't react with, you asshole! But nine times out of ten, the cheater is avoiding dealing with their marriage, and eventually you gotta deal with it. And that's what I say. It's rarely a situation that's sustainable.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't mind being questioned on a lot of things. However, no I don't consider someone who applies their own ideas of what the ideal relationship is to MY life a friend. If I want to listen to that I can find some Dr. Laura.

I've discussed this with friends. I'm not asking for complete non-questioning but most people I know treat me as my own best expert. I've gotten "wow that has to be rough" "holy shit how do you do that???" but I don't consider those things disrespectful. I also consider them their own life's best experts.

Here's the thing. I guess what's crucial here is how did rida approach her friend. I think she was saying, this is my life. Not, oh my god, what should I do? So in that context, the statement was unnecessary. My friends and I do a lot of, so what should I do. And we're really struggling. And we like the input. I do have a couple of Dr. Laura friends, and I don't share with them anymore. I don't need their lecture. Friends can offer their advice when you need it, and do it in a respectful and supportive way.

 

[Homburg]

No, no, no. I'm not asking you what you think about their choices. I mean, are they saying, I cheated and am fine with that, but you are poly scum? Because I don't like hypocrisy. If, however, someone cheated, thinks it was a bad decision, does not do it now and would not do it again, and thinks poly is a choice they don't agree with, that's not hypocritical to me.

Gotcha. Didn't get that from the question. In the case I am thinking, that person was fine with what they were doing, and not with what I was doing.

 

[kinkyknickers]

Hot topic guys,

Well, it's been a little while since I was at my computer, because I've been busy catching up with friends and "coming out", as it were (and spending time with Man and Minxie, they're blissed out on the loungeroom floor at the moment).

My Best friend took it very well after the initial cry of, "oh no"! I'm pretty hartened by the fact that she took it very seriously from the word go and said, "so this is like a committed relationship?"
I told her yes it was and she pretty much gave her blessing (no I wasn't seeking it, but it's nice because I value her opinion. She's picked many a scumbag well before I did) and said, "that sounds like it would suit you pretty well.

I also explained the BDSM dynamic, it makes a big difference when somebody finally understands that Minxie actually ASKED for a master, he's not just a cunt and she's not a walkover.

My other friend, well, she's Master's best friend since year dot. I expecpt a bit of jealousy, but it'll never be infront of us...... She wouldn't dare.

Pretty much everybody in their crew knows now.

It's nice to have it out there. Like I said, my family won't ever know, but that's okay, because I'm usually perpetually single as far as they are concerned anyway (read- committmentphobic).

Thankyou for all of your insights. I love the fact that I'm not alone.

Big ups to Homburg and MIS, who have been great support in PM for me when I've asked for their advice or just a kindred spirit.

I love to love. Kisses, KK

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Joining the convo late... Homburg and itw and Netz and mis and Fi have all contributed thoughts that I would have shared along the way.

I'm fortunate that my ADULT offspring and ex already know I'm kinky in the BDSM way. So does my sister, my only other direct blood relative still living. I've been poly before but didn't "come out" to them, though it was never hidden in my BDSM community.

My last, short-lived poly relationship had not reached the stage where danielle being involved with me and janey was a serious eyebrow raising issue. She came with us to some of our 'nilla events, she met my kids and ex, and was introduced as our friend danielle. The cuddling and PDA's (hugs, hand holding, arms around shoulders or waist) between janey and danielle, and me and danielle, and me and janey, and all three of us might have given some hints to the nature of our "friendship" but we were never directly asked and didn't feel the need to explain further.

Of course most of my 'nilla friends know I'm a kinky bastard anyway, so they probably figured I was starting to run a harem. They would think of it in those terms anyway. *LOL*

Sunday is Fathers Day. I'm going to be taking someone with me when I meet my boys for dinner. If they ask, she's my date. If they notice _her_ wedding band and ask, they'll get the truth. "We're dating, and exploring the possibility of a deeper relationship, yes, she's married and in an open relationship, I know her husband and he's cool with her dating me."

I'm not going to hide anything from them. Hello... the cross in my AV is in my living room for pete's sake, they see it every time they visit...

Live your life your way, on your terms, share what you need to with those who need to know and if they don't like it, well, screw 'em, it's still your life and your decision. They don't HAVE to understand or accept. It's nice when they do, but it ain't mandatory.

YIK,
- Geoff

 

[rida]

It's important to distinguish between different types of judgments.

Rida - Your friend's comments about "if you love someone..." - She's telling you what love means to her. Maybe she's projecting her issues, maybe she's only seen bad examples of poly, or maybe she's given it some thought and come to that conclusion.

"if you love someone you'll (do what I would do)" isn't really talking about oneself, other than maybe laying out your control issues for everyone to see, no?

Honestly, I can tell you that she was/is mostly projecting her own issues. But at the same time not realizing that she is passing a judgment on my relationship while justifying her own behavior. As we are friend, I know it is not what she was trying to do, so I have just let the subject drop for the time being.

I found that to happen often, especially for married people. For some reason it is easier to judge people that are poly with the "it is not real love" than accepting that it might actually be real love among all involved. By admitting that your poly relationships are real, they feel their own monogamous one is threatened.

For all of us, there are probably going to be people in our lives who just don't get it, for whatever reason. That's okay with me. What's not okay is shaming me, or using shame in some way to criticize me.

Exactly. You do not need to agree nor to get it. Just don't put me down or shame me.

 

[EmpressFi]

Joining the convo late... Homburg and itw and Netz and mis and Fi have all contributed thoughts that I would have shared along the way.

I'm fortunate that my ADULT offspring and ex already know I'm kinky in the BDSM way. So does my sister, my only other direct blood relative still living. I've been poly before but didn't "come out" to them, though it was never hidden in my BDSM community.

My last, short-lived poly relationship had not reached the stage where danielle being involved with me and janey was a serious eyebrow raising issue. She came with us to some of our 'nilla events, she met my kids and ex, and was introduced as our friend danielle. The cuddling and PDA's (hugs, hand holding, arms around shoulders or waist) between janey and danielle, and me and danielle, and me and janey, and all three of us might have given some hints to the nature of our "friendship" but we were never directly asked and didn't feel the need to explain further.

Of course most of my 'nilla friends know I'm a kinky bastard anyway, so they probably figured I was starting to run a harem. They would think of it in those terms anyway. *LOL*

Sunday is Fathers Day. I'm going to be taking someone with me when I meet my boys for dinner. If they ask, she's my date. If they notice _her_ wedding band and ask, they'll get the truth. "We're dating, and exploring the possibility of a deeper relationship, yes, she's married and in an open relationship, I know her husband and he's cool with her dating me."

I'm not going to hide anything from them. Hello... the cross in my AV is in my living room for pete's sake, they see it every time they visit...

Live your life your way, on your terms, share what you need to with those who need to know and if they don't like it, well, screw 'em, it's still your life and your decision. They don't HAVE to understand or accept. It's nice when they do, but it ain't mandatory.

YIK,
- Geoff

EG... if I werent already taken.. twice.. I'd sooooo steal you away

 

[Homburg]

Big ups to Homburg and MIS, who have been great support in PM for me when I've asked for their advice or just a kindred spirit.

I love to love. Kisses, KK

Very welcome, darlin. I really enjoyed our conversations, and and am happy to see that things are working well for you.

*hugs*

 

[intothewoods]

EG... if I werent already taken.. twice.. I'd sooooo steal you away

*titter* he mentioned me. *titter*

 

[EmpressFi]

*titter* he mentioned me. *titter*

I know.. it made me giggle like a schoolgirl