Defining Love

[wicked woman]

Yank, that is the most touching and beautiful group of words I have ever read. Thank you friend, for the effort and for the chance to dream.

I agree... just beautifully said...and meant ...Yank.

 

[midwestyankee]

I agree... just beautifully said...and meant ...Yank.

Thank you.

 

[shell seeker2]

Yankee,
You have such a wonderful way with words. What you wrote was thought provoking, and also so true. Beautiful!

 

[a_sweet_juicy_peach]

New to the thread...just wanted to say thank you Yankee for such beautiful words....wonderful....

 

[SweetErika]

for me, the difference b/n loving & being in love is the difference b/n the big things and the little things. by that, i mean: i love my wife. that means that her happiness is the most important thing to me, more than my own happiness, more than my own well-being. that's the big stuff. the little stuff, however, is when i go and buy her flowers or start giving her a backrub w/out being prompted, or when i tell her how beautiful she is.

to me, sexual involvement most certainly does not mean anything about love. it's about lust. that said, loving someone or being in love w/ someone can yield sex, but to me, that's a one-way street.

ed

Thanks for weighing in, Ed! I understand what you're saying, but the lines DO seem blurry... doing things (gifts, compliments, backrubs) to make someone feel good is really in the pursuit of their happiness and love, at least for me. You've definitely given me something to think about though.

 

[Cathleen]

New to the thread...just wanted to say thank you Yankee for such beautiful words....wonderful....

I agree and welcome to the thread peach (if I may condense your name). I hope you'll join in with your thoughts too.

 

[SweetErika]

Erika, can I have those other questions, please? These are too difficult.

In my mind there is a big difference between loving and being in love. I'm not sure it has much to do with my actions so much as it feels different. The internal energy is different, physiologically I react differently. The feeling of being 'in love' is sort of like a rocket blast - it throws everything into orbit inside. Every cell reacts and the world is beautiful and rosey. Loving is akin to 'throttle up'. It's cruising altitude in a way... the long haul.

The beginnings of a relationship are heady and giddy and all I want is more... it is centered on me, my feelings. The other person is the reason for that self-centeredness in me but it is still about me. Those feelings will burn out after a while, there's no way I could live that way long if I want to be productive and grounded. 'In love' is a few feet off the ground.

Loving is grounded, peaceful, and safe. The emotion and relationship can grow once that 'in love' part is done. Not that the relationship doesn't grow at the beginning but the energy changes and becomes more real - as if now back in the 'real world'.

The roots begin durning the 'in love' phase, and the blossom begins to develop and it might even burst a bit. The loving phase send those roots deeper and there will be far more blossoms.

I think.

Wow! Beautifully said, Cate. I was trying to figure out these tough questions myself, and that's about what I came up with (well, a far more primative version at least ).

I've always had difficulty with the concept of being in a romantic relationship with someone I love, but the in love phase seems to have been missed. Society tells us we must love and be in love with our partners for the relationship to work; loving but not being in love means it's doomed for failure, so it must be really bad when you're never really in love, right? However, I've come to think there must be some hybrid form, and/or that arriving at the point of loving any which way is what's really significant. Hmmm...

 

[SweetErika]

Now, to SweetErika's questions:

-What's the difference between loving and being in love?

I agree fully with Cathleen on this one. Being in love is a self-focused state of being. It's all about what I feel because of her. It's a necessary prologue to being able to love, which can only happen when you open up your soul to your beloved. Such an act of opening up takes courage and involves considerable risk so we don't do it lightly. To love is to extend yourself sellflessly for the betterment of your beloved. It is an action, whereas being in love is a state of being.

This makes me think of the act of giving and receiving unconditional love as well. Whenever I've truly given it, it's been a carefully considered decision involving thoughts of what's right for the other person, and acceptance of opening myself up to, and rising above, pain.

-Does sexual involvement mean you're in love? Or, can you love someone and be sexual with them?

Absolutely not! Love heightens the pleasure of sex but by itself does not mean that you're in love. Being sexual with someone you love is an extraordinarily pleasurable thing. To be candid, this second question confuses me because it seems to imply that being sexual is only possible without love. Perhaps you could clarify this one for me.

I got stuck in the 'my brain knows what it's thinking, so everyone else must too' trap.

To clarify, a friend theorized that you can love someone, but being sexual with them meant you were in love. For example, I love a friend, but because I'm not (and have no designs to be) sexual with him, I'm not in love with him. Yet if I love him and am sexual, it necessarily means I'm also in love with him.

I was curious if anyone else subscribed to that line of thinking, and if not, what they did believe about how sex and love vs. in love tie in.

-How do you distinguish love vs. in love feelings in yourself?

I'm not sure if I can point to any particular feeling that tells this difference. Instead, I think that I can remember noticing one day that I wanted nothing more than to be sure that she was happy and that my own happiness that day just didn't matter. Later I was able to see that that was the beginning of loving, because I'd moved past that state where I couldn't bear a day without feeling that she had made me the center of the universe.

That makes a lot of sense to me, Yank. Thanks for sharing!

 

[a_sweet_juicy_peach]

Just a lil bump up for all of you today...

 

[midwestyankee]

<snip>
To clarify, a friend theorized that you can love someone, but being sexual with them meant you were in love. For example, I love a friend, but because I'm not (and have no designs to be) sexual with him, I'm not in love with him. Yet if I love him and am sexual, it necessarily means I'm also in love with him.

I was curious if anyone else subscribed to that line of thinking, and if not, what they did believe about how sex and love vs. in love tie in.


That makes a lot of sense to me, Yank. Thanks for sharing!

It seems to me that falling in love is definitely a sexual thing but it is not the only possible precursor to love. Generally, we fall in love with highly charged sexual feelings for someone and over time the relationship may evolve to the point where the two people begin loving each other in that selfless way that can last. Not all relationships that begin with falling in love make it to that long-term state. Other loving relationships occur without the "falling in love" stage. The love between very close friends is a good example.

In my own life I have had, and continue to have, friends whom I love but sexual feeling is simply not a part of the relationship.

So sex is not a necessary part of love but it is a crucial part of romantic love. I have long held that relationships go through a series of natural stages and that growing physical intimacy is intertwined through those stages. It's possible to kill a potentially very good relationship by waiting too long for sex as well as by having sex too early. A relationship is a living thing that must be nurtured and allowed to develop at its own pace. Only the two beloveds can know that pace and many don't recognize it.

Ah...I've started off on another subject and another rant.

My bad.

 

[wicked woman]

So sex is not a necessary part of love but it is a crucial part of romantic love. I have long held that relationships go through a series of natural stages and that growing physical intimacy is intertwined through those stages. It's possible to kill a potentially very good relationship by waiting too long for sex as well as by having sex too early. A relationship is a living thing that must be nurtured and allowed to develop at its own pace. Only the two beloveds can know that pace and many don't recognize it.

Ah...I've started off on another subject and another rant.

My bad.

Not bad in my books...feel free to continue. I'd love to hear.

 

[Cathleen]

It seems to me that falling in love is definitely a sexual thing but it is not the only possible precursor to love. Generally, we fall in love with highly charged sexual feelings for someone and over time the relationship may evolve to the point where the two people begin loving each other in that selfless way that can last. Not all relationships that begin with falling in love make it to that long-term state. Other loving relationships occur without the "falling in love" stage. The love between very close friends is a good example.

In my own life I have had, and continue to have, friends whom I love but sexual feeling is simply not a part of the relationship.

So sex is not a necessary part of love but it is a crucial part of romantic love. I have long held that relationships go through a series of natural stages and that growing physical intimacy is intertwined through those stages. It's possible to kill a potentially very good relationship by waiting too long for sex as well as by having sex too early. A relationship is a living thing that must be nurtured and allowed to develop at its own pace. Only the two beloveds can know that pace and many don't recognize it.

Ah...I've started off on another subject and another rant.

My bad.

Damn, no one ever told me about a schedule... mumble crumble.

 

[shell seeker2]

I'm with Yankee on this one. I love many people for different reasons. I have not had sex with any of them. I am in love with one person and have a sexual relationship with him. I am in love with him. Soon after we began dating we both wanted to have sex, however, because it was soo early in our relationship, we decided against it and waited. I think by us doing that, it helped us to make sure that our relationship was what we both wanted. Had we had sex so early, I can't tell you what would have happened. Now, we didn't wait forever, either. (That "schedule" can be hard to determine unless you have open communication).
Now having said that everyone's thoughts on sex and love are different, not wrong, just different. I personally, could not sleep with anyone with a penis. I have to be in love with that person. In knowing myself, I couldn't go through with casual sex, because for me it is an intimacy that is reserved for the person I am in love with.
But once again, the definition of love is different not right or wrong for every individual. Sorry for rambling!

 

[Cathleen]

I'm with Yankee on this one. I love many people for different reasons. I have not had sex with any of them. I am in love with one person and have a sexual relationship with him. I am in love with him. Soon after we began dating we both wanted to have sex, however, because it was soo early in our relationship, we decided against it and waited. I think by us doing that, it helped us to make sure that our relationship was what we both wanted. Had we had sex so early, I can't tell you what would have happened. Now, we didn't wait forever, either. (That "schedule" can be hard to determine unless you have open communication).
Now having said that everyone's thoughts on sex and love are different, not wrong, just different. I personally, could not sleep with anyone with a penis. I have to be in love with that person. In knowing myself, I couldn't go through with casual sex, because for me it is an intimacy that is reserved for the person I am in love with.
But once again, the definition of love is different not right or wrong for every individual. Sorry for rambling!

Shelly you didn't ramble at all. I'm very similar to you on this issue. I have to have very strong feelings too, (although sometimes that FwithB thing looks attractive), I've never been interested or able to have casual sex. It matters too much for me some might say but it's mine to give - it is a gift in many respects.

There is such a huge difference between loving and being in love --- that one little word 'in' makes a world of difference.

Now I'm off to pick up three little people I love to pieces and go to a movie and then have ice cream at the playground. Love - what a great thing.

 

[a_sweet_juicy_peach]

Bump up for love....

 

[Cathleen]

Well, I've been struggling with love for a while now but life is coming back again and I got to thinking about love as a noun or verb. When asked about how men and women look at sex I used to say it was like the difference between a noun and a verb... for women it was a noun, men a verb. (I don't quite subscribe to that any longer... I want some verb!)

So thinking nouns and verbs I decided to put 'love' into an online thesaurus. Most entries were nouns, there were just a couple of verbs... but the verbs got me chuckling. Here are some verbs, maybe you can come up with some yourself, or your own actions regarding love.

Verbs: admire, adulate, canonize, care for, cherish, choose, deify, delight in, dote on, esteem, exalt, fall for, fancy, flip over, glorify, go for, gone on, hold dear, hold high, idolize, like, long for, prefer, prize, thrive with, treasure, venerate, wild for, worship

canoodle, caress, chase after, clasp, clind, cosset, court, cuddle, dandle, draw close, embrace, feel, fondle, grass, hold, hug, kiss, lick, look tenderly, make it, make love, neck, pet, press, shine, soothe, spoon, stroke, tryst, woo

Canoodle... now that is a fun word!

 

[midwestyankee]

Well, I've been struggling with love for a while now but life is coming back again and I got to thinking about love as a noun or verb. When asked about how men and women look at sex I used to say it was like the difference between a noun and a verb... for women it was a noun, men a verb. (I don't quite subscribe to that any longer... I want some verb!)

So thinking nouns and verbs I decided to put 'love' into an online thesaurus. Most entries were nouns, there were just a couple of verbs... but the verbs got me chuckling. Here are some verbs, maybe you can come up with some yourself, or your own actions regarding love.

Verbs: admire, adulate, canonize, care for, cherish, choose, deify, delight in, dote on, esteem, exalt, fall for, fancy, flip over, glorify, go for, gone on, hold dear, hold high, idolize, like, long for, prefer, prize, thrive with, treasure, venerate, wild for, worship

canoodle, caress, chase after, clasp, clind, cosset, court, cuddle, dandle, draw close, embrace, feel, fondle, grass, hold, hug, kiss, lick, look tenderly, make it, make love, neck, pet, press, shine, soothe, spoon, stroke, tryst, woo

Canoodle... now that is a fun word!

Canoodle... that is truly a fun word.


Now if I only knew how to canoodle. I wonder if anyone would volunteer to teach me how to canoodle - by correspondence, of course.

 

[ewopper]

One of my favorite threads 'Defining Love' is no longer active but the questions and interest remain. Recently I've noticed lots of threads describing relationship trouble, many wondering about the idea of being 'in love' and loving someone. So I thought I'd just openly steal the original thread's original post.



To begin: What is your definition of love?

What experiences helped shape your definition?

What have you read that helped form your definition?

Taking familial love as a given, what other forms of love can you identify?

What are the limits on loving? Can we love more than one person at a time (again, all outside the category of familial love)?

What freedom do we gain through love? What constraints do we take on through love?

What is the difference between being in love and loving someone?

Love is when you stay with them despite all the bullshit

 

[wicked woman]

Canoodle... that is truly a fun word.


Now if I only knew how to canoodle. I wonder if anyone would volunteer to teach me how to canoodle - by correspondence, of course.

by correspondence? then forget it...I'm not volunteering

Canoodle...or Can....oodle.....lots of Canadians all huddled together, do you think?

 

[midwestyankee]

by correspondence? then forget it...I'm not volunteering

Canoodle...or Can....oodle.....lots of Canadians all huddled together, do you think?

Could this include descendants of Canadians?

 

[Recidiva]

One of my favorite threads 'Defining Love' is no longer active but the questions and interest remain. Recently I've noticed lots of threads describing relationship trouble, many wondering about the idea of being 'in love' and loving someone. So I thought I'd just openly steal the original thread's original post.

To begin: What is your definition of love?

What experiences helped shape your definition?

What have you read that helped form your definition?

Taking familial love as a given, what other forms of love can you identify?

What are the limits on loving? Can we love more than one person at a time (again, all outside the category of familial love)?

What freedom do we gain through love? What constraints do we take on through love?

What is the difference between being in love and loving someone?

I got some of my definition of love from Robert Heinlein, who describes it as caring more about someone else's wellbeing than your own.

To love someone is a gift. It is a vulnerability and a window to all the things you value and want, with a side helping of everything you're afraid of or are terrified of losing. I think giving yourself to love fully always helps you define who you are and better defend against what might harm you, if you fully embrace it and learn from it.

I've read Kahlil Gibran's "The Prophet", about which I think there are no more true words spoken about love I have yet to find:

"When love beckons to you follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you. And when he speaks to you believe in him,

Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth. Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.

He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;

And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.
All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,

Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed; For love is sufficient unto love. When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, I am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course of love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.

Love has no other desire but to fulfil itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully."

There is familial love, self love, selfless love, love of the infinite, love of the finite, love of mystery, love of solution. Pretty much anything out there, there's a love for it if you look hard enough in yourself to embrace it.

Our limits on loving are only confined to our resources and what we can survive or what will fit into our life without destroying its structure. Sometimes we have to let our structure be destroyed in hopes of rebirth. I can love a volcano, but I can't embrace it or live in it. I can love a person, but if they're destructive or blind to themselves, it's painful to watch, and I despair. I can love certain things from only a safe distance to protect them and myself.

We gain the freedom to be ourselves within a larger whole. We lose parts of ourselves and gain others. We learn how to say goodbye and hello to different parts of our minds and hearts that others awaken or share. Some parts of us hibernate until that person comes by to wake us, if only briefly, to hello again.

The difference between loving someone is that when you love someone, you take on the full burden of it. You take on responsibilities for them, thoughts for them, you reach into their world and rearrange things if you must, or just leave them as they are if you must...but you're there in their world. When you are loved, you must be open to the same thing, people reaching into your world and wanting to rearrange things to help you become yourself more fully, or leave you just as you are and bask in it.

 

[sweet_marie]

What a fun post!

At one time there was an email going around about the old man who helped his wife go to the bathroom and tie her shoes when she couldn't anymore as a child's definition of love.

Corny as it sounds, I think that's a really great example. I work in Hospice, so i see a lot of old couples, been together for eons and they either love or have fallen out of love.

I'd have to say, love is holding your partner's hand while they die....tying their shoes when they can't....helping them go to the bathroom even.


but for the younger set maybe love is totally different. Love is acceptance, friendship and really good sex.

I have loved one time in my entire life. He didn't return the favor, which sucks but that's how it is. For me, love totally took over me, kind like in the song. I didn't like it much, especially when I didn't get a thing out of it. And I hate being controlled by some unnamable force like that.

So what is love? A force greater than gravity, stronger than a thousand bulls, a feeling so fragile that anything more than a whisper could make it vanish.

Happy hump day to you all!

Marie

 

[wicked woman]

Could this include descendants of Canadians?

might make an exception for a particular descendant

 

[midwestyankee]

might make an exception for a particular descendant

Let the correspondence begin.

 

[a_sweet_juicy_peach]

What a fun post!

At one time there was an email going around about the old man who helped his wife go to the bathroom and tie her shoes when she couldn't anymore as a child's definition of love.

Corny as it sounds, I think that's a really great example. I work in Hospice, so i see a lot of old couples, been together for eons and they either love or have fallen out of love.

I'd have to say, love is holding your partner's hand while they die....tying their shoes when they can't....helping them go to the bathroom even.


but for the younger set maybe love is totally different. Love is acceptance, friendship and really good sex.

I have loved one time in my entire life. He didn't return the favor, which sucks but that's how it is. For me, love totally took over me, kind like in the song. I didn't like it much, especially when I didn't get a thing out of it. And I hate being controlled by some unnamable force like that.

So what is love? A force greater than gravity, stronger than a thousand bulls, a feeling so fragile that anything more than a whisper could make it vanish.

Happy hump day to you all!

Marie

Totally loved what you had to say here....