Defining Love

[Cathleen]

I got some of my definition of love from Robert Heinlein, who describes it as caring more about someone else's wellbeing than your own.

To love someone is a gift. It is a vulnerability and a window to all the things you value and want, with a side helping of everything you're afraid of or are terrified of losing. I think giving yourself to love fully always helps you define who you are and better defend against what might harm you, if you fully embrace it and learn from it.

I've read Kahlil Gibran's "The Prophet", about which I think there are no more true words spoken about love I have yet to find:

"When love beckons to you follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you. And when he speaks to you believe in him,

Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth. Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.

He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;

And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.
All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,

Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed; For love is sufficient unto love. When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, I am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course of love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.

Love has no other desire but to fulfil itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully."

There is familial love, self love, selfless love, love of the infinite, love of the finite, love of mystery, love of solution. Pretty much anything out there, there's a love for it if you look hard enough in yourself to embrace it.

Our limits on loving are only confined to our resources and what we can survive or what will fit into our life without destroying its structure. Sometimes we have to let our structure be destroyed in hopes of rebirth. I can love a volcano, but I can't embrace it or live in it. I can love a person, but if they're destructive or blind to themselves, it's painful to watch, and I despair. I can love certain things from only a safe distance to protect them and myself.

We gain the freedom to be ourselves within a larger whole. We lose parts of ourselves and gain others. We learn how to say goodbye and hello to different parts of our minds and hearts that others awaken or share. Some parts of us hibernate until that person comes by to wake us, if only briefly, to hello again.

The difference between loving someone is that when you love someone, you take on the full burden of it. You take on responsibilities for them, thoughts for them, you reach into their world and rearrange things if you must, or just leave them as they are if you must...but you're there in their world. When you are loved, you must be open to the same thing, people reaching into your world and wanting to rearrange things to help you become yourself more fully, or leave you just as you are and bask in it.

First of all, thank you for sharing your thoughts as well as Kahlil Gibran's "The Prophet" - very good.

I like what you say about our structure and having to be willing to allow it be re-structured. It's a tough thing to do and for me it is the willingness that is paramount. Once I'm willing I can tend to use the energy from that to propel me forward.

We learn how to say goodbye and hello to different parts of our minds and hearts that others awaken or share.

This is a wonderful sentiment... Thank you for sharing, I look forward to more.

 

[Cathleen]

Canoodle... that is truly a fun word.


Now if I only knew how to canoodle. I wonder if anyone would volunteer to teach me how to canoodle - by correspondence, of course.

by correspondence? then forget it...I'm not volunteering

Canoodle...or Can....oodle.....lots of Canadians all huddled together, do you think?

Let the correspondence begin.

So do we have comingling of canoodling? Maybe co-opt conoodling?

 

[Cathleen]

What a fun post!

At one time there was an email going around about the old man who helped his wife go to the bathroom and tie her shoes when she couldn't anymore as a child's definition of love.

Corny as it sounds, I think that's a really great example. I work in Hospice, so i see a lot of old couples, been together for eons and they either love or have fallen out of love.

I'd have to say, love is holding your partner's hand while they die....tying their shoes when they can't....helping them go to the bathroom even.


but for the younger set maybe love is totally different. Love is acceptance, friendship and really good sex.

I have loved one time in my entire life. He didn't return the favor, which sucks but that's how it is. For me, love totally took over me, kind like in the song. I didn't like it much, especially when I didn't get a thing out of it. And I hate being controlled by some unnamable force like that.

So what is love? A force greater than gravity, stronger than a thousand bulls, a feeling so fragile that anything more than a whisper could make it vanish.

Happy hump day to you all!

Marie

Totally loved what you had to say here....

I'm with Peach here Marie, what a great post.

So what is love? A force greater than gravity, stronger than a thousand bulls, a feeling so fragile that anything more than a whisper could make it vanish.

Marie, you most certainly earn the sweet part of your name. I'm loving your words running around my mind and tickling my heart. So very nice. Thank you for sharing - please come back soon!

 

[sweet_marie]

I'm with Peach here Marie, what a great post.



Marie, you most certainly earn the sweet part of your name. I'm loving your words running around my mind and tickling my heart. So very nice. Thank you for sharing - please come back soon!

thanks!
I'll be back, school permitting.....
hugs
Marie

 

[Cathleen]

thanks!
I'll be back, school permitting.....
hugs
Marie

Well, I'd never want to get in the way of studying but come back quickly.

 

[Cathleen]

I saw this quote on TantaLiza's sig line and stole it - well, I mentioned wanting to use it. It sounds so easy, inviting really. I know I have been reluctant to fall in love, reluctant to be open to the opportunity too.

I think it resonates to me is the ease of it but then I start to wonder is it really that easy? It is supposed to be easy? Probably but I know how to make it difficult...

Anyone with a thought they'd like to share?



"There comes a point where you just love someone. Not because they're good, or bad, or anything really. You just love them. It doesn't mean you'll be together forever. It doesn't mean you won't hurt each other. It just means you love them. Sometimes in spite of who they are, and sometimes because of who they are. And you know that they love you, sometimes because of who you are, and sometimes in spite of it." Incubus Dreams

 

[it_matters]

[SIZE=+1]LOVE, NOT LOVE [/SIZE]

When I was smaller, twenty volumes of the	
	encyclopedia stretched from one edge of
	our oak bookshelf to the far end, twenty,	
and each carried the knowledge of Humans, by	
	letter; if you asked What do people know
	beginning with the letter N, there you've
	got it; but Z most interesting, who knows
	even how many words begin with Z.	
I read a poem once which asked, quite clearly	
	and frequently, for a woman, the love of
	his life, to please stop running away, and
	what is life for, anyway? and though we
	are never sure if he convinced her, still
	the poem would have fit in the volume marked L.	
Seems much simpler, then. One woman writing	
	about Hate. Someone else about the War.
	And Spring, or Death.	
I think all the boxes have got holes. Or	
	words are leaking in among the few dense
	truths of a poet's page, water into sand,
	quicksand;	
I think it must be Aunt Silvia's rambling	
	monologues have hit the scene. I think
	there are books that say love, but say
	nothing like Love,	
as though, trying to open the tiny package	
	of a heart, all hell's cut loose.

 

[a_sweet_juicy_peach]

I saw this quote on TantaLiza's sig line and stole it - well, I mentioned wanting to use it. It sounds so easy, inviting really. I know I have been reluctant to fall in love, reluctant to be open to the opportunity too.

I think it resonates to me is the ease of it but then I start to wonder is it really that easy? It is supposed to be easy? Probably but I know how to make it difficult...

Anyone with a thought they'd like to share?



"There comes a point where you just love someone. Not because they're good, or bad, or anything really. You just love them. It doesn't mean you'll be together forever. It doesn't mean you won't hurt each other. It just means you love them. Sometimes in spite of who they are, and sometimes because of who they are. And you know that they love you, sometimes because of who you are, and sometimes in spite of it." Incubus Dreams

Is very true...i found my true love here at lit...i don't know what will happen in the future...but i do know it is love and we do love one another....He loves me the way i am and that takes a lot...lol...so i know it is love....

 

[Sensual Man 05]

I'm not really sure how to describe it. It's where you find yourself thinking about that person just out of the blue on many different occasions throughout your day when you are not together. Where you can't imagine what things would be like without that person, and forget what everything was like before you met them. Where you can sit and just watch them sleep for hours on end. Where time gets away from you when you're together and you don't realize it.

I can't really put it into a distinct sentence, but I know those are just some of the things that I would put into the definition of love. There's a lot more that should go in there, but I don't want to ramble and stuff today.

Great questions, Cathleen. I need some time to think about my answers.

And I like Willing and Unsure's definition of being in love. The problem, however, is that when you get hurt in that situation, you tend to toughen up a bit and not give yourself over completely to anyone else. That's why that first love is so special, because you've never experienced hurt before. You're innocence makes you love like a child.

Also, why does one settle for less than being completely in love? it happens all the time. And I think the answer relates back to my first point. I think it's easier to be with someone you're not completely in love with if you've been hurt before. I mean if we can find someone who will love us completely and never hurt us, are we content with that even though we aren't head over heels for that person? Do we grow to value safety and security over the dangerous yet sensational feeling of being in love?

Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. Cathleen I warned you I may not add anything worthwhile! lol. Those were just some thoughts I had initially.

 

[TantaLiza]

You honor me, Cate...

I'll post tomorrow when I'm not so sleepy and will make sense!!

 

[sweet_marie]

"There comes a point where you just love someone. Not because they're good, or bad, or anything really. You just love them. It doesn't mean you'll be together forever. It doesn't mean you won't hurt each other. It just means you love them. Sometimes in spite of who they are, and sometimes because of who they are. And you know that they love you, sometimes because of who you are, and sometimes in spite of it." Incubus Dreams

This is lovely!

 

[sweet_marie]

Great questions, Cathleen. I need some time to think about my answers.

And I like Willing and Unsure's definition of being in love. The problem, however, is that when you get hurt in that situation, you tend to toughen up a bit and not give yourself over completely to anyone else. That's why that first love is so special, because you've never experienced hurt before. You're innocence makes you love like a child.

Also, why does one settle for less than being completely in love? it happens all the time. And I think the answer relates back to my first point. I think it's easier to be with someone you're not completely in love with if you've been hurt before. I mean if we can find someone who will love us completely and never hurt us, are we content with that even though we aren't head over heels for that person? Do we grow to value safety and security over the dangerous yet sensational feeling of being in love?

Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. Cathleen I warned you I may not add anything worthwhile! lol. Those were just some thoughts I had initially.

Hey, everything is worthwhile...and here, for me, I'm so happy you said what you said about first love. I waited until I was 22, earlier this year, but wow, you have it on the nose. (not only broken heart, but best friend behind my back to get him too and he was only using me as a pleasant stop gap without string attached...oy vey...not very romanitc I'm afraid!)

The thing is though, I can remember what it felt like in those couple months when I could smell honey and spring time in four feet of snow. And I'm ruined now, because I won't accept anything less.

I just hope my choice in characters is better!

hugs
Marie

 

[Sensual Man 05]

Hey, everything is worthwhile...and here, for me, I'm so happy you said what you said about first love. I waited until I was 22, earlier this year, but wow, you have it on the nose. (not only broken heart, but best friend behind my back to get him too and he was only using me as a pleasant stop gap without string attached...oy vey...not very romanitc I'm afraid!)

The thing is though, I can remember what it felt like in those couple months when I could smell honey and spring time in four feet of snow. And I'm ruined now, because I won't accept anything less.

I just hope my choice in characters is better!

hugs
Marie

Marie if that's your real name you're REALLY lucky! That's such a pretty name. One of my all time favorites.

Funny, I'm in my 30s now and i still cannot remember ever feeling the way I did with my first girlfriend. I was 15 then. There's a magic to it, that's for sure. We wrote letters upon letters to each other about how we'd be together forever and all that jazz. I guess as you get older you realize that forever is a long time. But heck I would have loved to have found someone who made me feel that way all over again. It's a wonderful feeling. I don't know if it's possible, though.

Anyway, hugs back at ya. You'll be okay. Keep your heart open. Life's much more interesting that way.

 

[sweet_marie]

Marie if that's your real name you're REALLY lucky! That's such a pretty name. One of my all time favorites.

Funny, I'm in my 30s now and i still cannot remember ever feeling the way I did with my first girlfriend. I was 15 then. There's a magic to it, that's for sure. We wrote letters upon letters to each other about how we'd be together forever and all that jazz. I guess as you get older you realize that forever is a long time. But heck I would have loved to have found someone who made me feel that way all over again. It's a wonderful feeling. I don't know if it's possible, though.

Anyway, hugs back at ya. You'll be okay. Keep your heart open. Life's much more interesting that way.

It's my middle name.

My real name is Erina, but I don't usually go by that here.

Marie

 

[Sensual Man 05]

It's my middle name.

My real name is Erina, but I don't usually go by that here.

Marie

aww ty for the rose, Erina Marie. 12 for you and a .

Marie, I'm sorry you were hurt. But be glad you didn't grow up in the 80s. Lots of sappy music around then to make you feel worse lol. I want to puke when I hear Air Supply's "I'm all out of love." Funny how my music tastes changed from Journey when I was with my girlfriend to Sex Pistols and Violent Femmes when she dumped me!

 

[it_matters]

And I like Willing and Unsure's definition of being in love. The problem, however, is that when you get hurt in that situation, you tend to toughen up a bit and not give yourself over completely to anyone else. That's why that first love is so special, because you've never experienced hurt before. You're innocence makes you love like a child.

Well that was sure worthwhile, Sensual. Thanks for the memory.

As I write that, I remembered a beautiful, brief conversation with an older woman who lived near my mother. She was in her seventies, was widowed, and had just found a companion to have fun with. You should have seen her eyes. She said, "Look what love can do to you: here I am 75 years old, and my heart feels just as light as when I was a schoolgirl, and had my first kiss!"

I loved hearing that. I had had the impression that, as the years pass, I may just get quieter and quieter, and the heart -- being rather knocked about by living -- would become calloused. But... here is one good model I will strive to follow!

 

[it_matters]

Love

My two cats sleep with their arms curled round one another. They stop and lick each others faces at least once a day. Right now they are sleeping on my desk next to me, the little female with her right paw reached out and resting on the left paw of the male.

 

[it_matters]

Love

When I was young I spent time with relatives of my mother, an older childless couple in a small town some hours away. Once I spent the whole summer there. I was eight years old.

The man ran a coin-op laundry, among other things. One day we went there to collect the change, and he gave me the key to open the boxes. We would sort the change on the white metal tops of the machines, and put them into paper coin rolls to take to the bank.

I opened the third machine and dumped the coins out to sort them... and suddenly froze, looking at the contents of the metal box. I didn't recognize any of these coins! And every one of them was different, here was one that said Bermuda, another a Ha'penny from England, one with a hole punched in and Chinese characters, le femme de liberté from France... My guardian said I could keep them -- you can imagine my delight -- and I tucked them away in a little card box he gave me, with two metal tabs to close the lid.

Years later, I was playing with my 3-yr-old son... what were we doing? I can't remember. But somewhere during our play I found something of my own that I knew he would like, that would spark his imagination, and I gave it to him. And in that instant, with my gift still half in my hands, half in his, I suddenly found myself standing there in front of the washing machines again, two hands full of foreign coins which never could have been used to run a washing machine, and this older man with the keys standing behind me, watching as a pieces of his well-traveled history fell ringing into the precious world of a child.

 

[sweet_marie]

aww ty for the rose, Erina Marie. 12 for you and a .

Marie, I'm sorry you were hurt. But be glad you didn't grow up in the 80s. Lots of sappy music around then to make you feel worse lol. I want to puke when I hear Air Supply's "I'm all out of love." Funny how my music tastes changed from Journey when I was with my girlfriend to Sex Pistols and Violent Femmes when she dumped me!

haha....well, here's the funny thing.....the dude's still hanging around even though he has a new gf....do i get this, no. it think he thinks i'm some sort of safety net? what a turd. and what am i going to do about this? not sure but working on it. suggestions ok and fine.

thanks for the roses...needed them!


my music:
cryin'---aerosmith
this is how a heart breaks---rob thomas
disease---matchbox 20
my give a damn's busted---jodie messina
you will be mine---faith hill (just for fun)
all the things she said----tatu
anything from evanescence
cold---crossfade
godsmack
iron head


and on it goes

 

[it_matters]

he thinks i'm some sort of safety net? what a turd. and what am i going to do about this? not sure but working on it. suggestions ok and fine.

He won't move on unless you shove him. Safety nets feel good -- so even if he isn't playing it that way in his mind, while its cozy he'll keep wrapping the blanket around him.

So you ask yourself if there is any value having him around, except confusing your body and heart. If he's a turd, scrape him off your shoes. Suggestions (where X is his name):

"You know what... I need some space."
"We're done. I need to move on, and you need to move off."
"Hey, X... it sounds cold, but I really don't want you around."

... spray paint the road outside where you live with giant, glowing "X-free Zone"
... call the cops and tell them he is a stalker (he he, no DON'T do that)
... practice ignoring his energy, and move toward your next partner... when you've got the arms of someone good around you, the shit will disappear

 

[sweet_marie]

He won't move on unless you shove him. Safety nets feel good -- so even if he isn't playing it that way in his mind, while its cozy he'll keep wrapping the blanket around him.

So you ask yourself if there is any value having him around, except confusing your body and heart. If he's a turd, scrape him off your shoes. Suggestions (where X is his name):

"You know what... I need some space."
"We're done. I need to move on, and you need to move off."
"Hey, X... it sounds cold, but I really don't want you around."

... spray paint the road outside where you live with giant, glowing "X-free Zone"
... call the cops and tell them he is a stalker (he he, no DON'T do that)
... practice ignoring his energy, and move toward your next partner... when you've got the arms of someone good around you, the shit will disappear

ahhh you've got the right ideas.....it'll take bit, but let me chew on it.

thanks for writing....appreciate it!


now.....tips for finding the next one...i'm really not good at that....and i'm not doing it like i normally do (which is find the one guy i can't have and put it in 4WD and 2nd gear and off I chargeth)....

Sorry Cat for taking your thread so off base....pm's welcome if a bump comes along......and probably deserves to be bumped

Marie

 

[Cathleen]

ahhh you've got the right ideas.....it'll take bit, but let me chew on it.

thanks for writing....appreciate it!


now.....tips for finding the next one...i'm really not good at that....and i'm not doing it like i normally do (which is find the one guy i can't have and put it in 4WD and 2nd gear and off I chargeth)....

Sorry Cat for taking your thread so off base....pm's welcome if a bump comes along......and probably deserves to be bumped

Marie

Marie, in no way did you send the thread anywhere but on topic. Discussions of love come in all forms. I'm sorry your heart was hurt, they heal but the trick is to heal it with softness so it won't close.

 

[midwestyankee]

Just a little bump for one of my favorite threads.

I've nothing to add right now but I hate to see this thread languish among the nether regions of the forum.

 

[eudaemonia]

I'm sorry your heart was hurt, they heal but the trick is to heal it with softness so it won't close.

Bushels of wisedom in those words. Hard to follow, but the payoff is excellent if you do.

 

[it_matters]

Without words

How would you posters see love in situations without words, or almost without action? We so often reach into the abstract to say "Love, Love", but is that the closest path to some quiet truth?

.. a couple who has been together for years, raised children, raised grandchildren, traveled the world together, sit on the porch without talking, without even looking at one another, but if you take one of them out of the picture, the emptiness felt by the other, left behind, is deep as life itself

.. a younger woman stands on the street outside the hospital door, her arms thrown around the neck and shoulders of her man, tight enough to bury herself in him, in her fingers a small card with the results of a pregnancy test: positive.

.. an email from a friend you haven't seen in years, remembering a funny story here, a possible tryst there

.. the smell and sounds of the earth where you grew up, whatever part of the country or world that might be, delicious memory, poignant reflection of yourself as a child