Difference between subs and slaves

[intothewoods]

I personally don't believe in the hard-core no choice belief. I know that I could leave if I really wanted to, but I don't tend to think like that because it's just rather pointless. I don't intend to leave, but I don't know what the future holds either.

I guess I have a deeper understanding of this lately after watching this show on Polygamist sects the other day. People kept asking, why don't the women and children just LEAVE if it is that bad for them, if they want to leave? Fact is, they simply can't. It isn't even an option they can imagine because of the way they were raised, their beliefs, etc. As crazy as it seemed to me that they would choose to stay in the conditions they were in, I could also see how deeply their beliefs had a grip on them.

Trying to tell them that their world was not very normal and convince them that there was something better out there would be much like someone coming to me and telling me that my world is really fucked up and that Polygamist sects are REALLY how life should be.

Somehow that resonated with me and I can understand more how some slaves simply don't believe in the choice of leaving.

I'm sensitive to other cultures and those who are raised to believe what seems extreme to the rest of us. But for those M/s couples who were not raised in a separate culture of some sort, it doesn't seem the same to me.

What culture are they protecting? What's the higher purpose?

 

[serijules]

I'm sensitive to other cultures and those who are raised to believe what seems extreme to the rest of us. But for those M/s couples who were not raised in a separate culture of some sort, it doesn't seem the same to me.

What culture are they protecting? What's the higher purpose?

Their own *shrugs* I was just using the religious thing as an example, it doesn't have to be that extreme. I'm just saying that personal beliefs can be very very strong.

 

[Homburg]

Actually, people do this all the time to those who are religious! But anyway. I don't discount anyone's beliefs or dedication. I merely ask that they not pretend they didn't have a choice in the matter.

Someone was pretending that they did not have a choice?

 

[ataxia.girl]

While there are the obvious differences between sub and slave here, I believe that the differences between online and physical are there whether sub or slave. And for some who call themselves slave while online, the reality of 24/7 can be a very rude awakening and they can discover that being a slave is not at all what they expected. But again, that's equally true for subs. Being a sub/slave online and following some instructions over a webcam or phone is very, very different from being in the same room 24/7. And I'm just not sure that the discussion can be as valid when you combine the experiences of the online sub/slave with the real life sub/slave. I know that's an unpopular view, but it's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

i kinda think its possible to imagine what 24/7 is like but you probably have to have lived some life first, some not very fun life. Most of my exeperience has been online, not all of it, but a very large portion and a lot of the online has had a bigger impact than the off but i also live a busy life full of the mundane so i think i can grasp what that would be like.

Actually reading this thread is reminding me why i have always tried to identify more as a toy than a slave. There will always be that part of me that wants to be a slave and maybe kind of is in some ways for periods of time but i don't really imagine i could sustain it without completely falling apart but i guess i would consider that his problem.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Nope, but I tend to be friends with religious folks who are aware that their religious persuasion is a combination of faith and background, and are self-aware enough to have a sense of how they got there.

But not every religious person is like this, and to each his own. If a person wants to believe their Master is God Almighty and they were chosen by him to serve, with little choice in the matter, and that makes them happy, enjoy.

i do not believe this, that i had no choice in becoming my Master's property. of course i had a choice, that is what differentiates the life i have between that of my great great grandparents who were born into legalized slavery.

where i do not have a choice is in terminating the relationship. this comes from my personal beliefs and the way i was trained into consensual slavery...once you agree to become a slave, there are no more free choices. and for many the strength of their belief and commitment and devotion is more than enough for this to be a valid truth. however in my particular situation, i'm a person who needs to actively feel the bonds of slavery, of no choice and no freedom. and fortunately, i happen to have a Master who needs to actively control and take whatever measures necessary to ensure that any slave of his feels no freedom or choice. realistically speaking, i can say that i could possibly (if i lost my mind or some such) TRY to leave my Master. also realistically speaking, i can say that my chances of success (and let's define "success" as leaving, remaining alive, and never being found) are very, very very slim. does this frighten me at all? not in the least, as i have no intentions of ever attempting to leave him. moreoever, i know that i'd deserve whatever nasty fate befell me as a consequence of trying to leave.

but there are some, probably many, who believe that such a reality can never be, that it's fairy tale that we create in our minds and want to believe in with no basis in fact or real life. and for such people, there's usually very little one can do to convince them otherwise. it is not an existence they can imagine, moreover it's not an existence they find healthy or right/ethical, therefore it can not be.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Interesting discussion. I think that each of us has a different experience and that experience is what we bring to the table of the discussion. For me, distance is not the only difference between online, long distance, and 24/7. It's been quite awhile since I was in a 24/7, but it is vastly different for me from even submitting in a dating sense versus a 24/7 TPE sense. And while my 24/7 was not as 'controlled' as Cat's, it was still up to his whim. The only time I was not under his direction was at work, and that's only because as long as I have a child under 18 whom I am financially responsible for, my job is non-negotiable. Once she's out on her own, then that's up for grabs as well. For many, that would make what I had not be considered TPE, since I held control of my work. But again, that's my personal experience and so it colors my view of the discussion.

None of our differences make any of our submission 'less than' anyone else's. And just because OSG and Cat have one view of their own slavery does not make my view of my own slavery 'less than'. Nor does it make Seri's 'less than'. It just makes them different.

 

[ataxia.girl]

i think some of us are probably frustrated that we feel we will never get to really see if we are or could be slaves or not. i sometimes think i have the heart and soul of a little girl slave but i will never really know for sure because i will never live a 24/7 TPE life. Its frustrating to think you might be misunderstood because you lack the opportunity but i think it is equally frustrating to feel that your actual and real 24/7 TPE life is often made the same as or equal to those who will never really walk in your shoes.

i agree with OSG that mental and emotional slavery is very real, that there are people who live that way and the slave cannot simply just get up and walk away even if they wanted to. We don't live and make decisions in a vacuum. We aren't little autonomous capsules of free will unto ourselves, we are a play of internal will against our environment and the information and experience we are allowed and create. i am also absolutely certain that time is a factor. The longer a slave is a slave the less and less choice there is to leave because we forget, we live mostly in what we are experiencing now, not 5 or 10 years ago. OSG believes the threat that she would be tracked down if she left is very real. For her i hope that it is real quite frankly. If i was her and i left and found out my Daddy didn't come after me i would be utterly and completely shattered. i hope he means what he says to her. Every submissive deserves to believe what their Master\Daddy\Domme tells them and not to be disappointed.

 

[justNCmale]

You, ataxia.girl, have used words I have spoken; for I beleive that a Master must have his sub's welfare at heart. I do not think a Master without regard for the sub's wellbeing is true to the lifestyle. Pleasure exists in the relationship because 'both' enjoy their roles and respect the other's role.
Just a thought.

 

[LadyC]

i think some of us are probably frustrated that we feel we will never get to really see if we are or could be slaves or not. i sometimes think i have the heart and soul of a little girl slave but i will never really know for sure because i will never live a 24/7 TPE life. Its frustrating to think you might be misunderstood because you lack the opportunity but i think it is equally frustrating to feel that your actual and real 24/7 TPE life is often made the same as or equal to those who will never really walk in your shoes.

i agree with OSG that mental and emotional slavery is very real, that there are people who live that way and the slave cannot simply just get up and walk away even if they wanted to. We don't live and make decisions in a vacuum. We aren't little autonomous capsules of free will unto ourselves, we are a play of internal will against our environment and the information and experience we are allowed and create. i am also absolutely certain that time is a factor. The longer a slave is a slave the less and less choice there is to leave because we forget, we live mostly in what we are experiencing now, not 5 or 10 years ago. OSG believes the threat that she would be tracked down if she left is very real. For her i hope that it is real quite frankly. If i was her and i left and found out my Daddy didn't come after me i would be utterly and completely shattered. i hope he means what he says to her. Every submissive deserves to believe what their Master\Daddy\Domme tells them and not to be disappointed.

For the most part, my minion Billy-boy and I live our Domme/Sub roles 24/7, but on occasion, we step out of those role and live on equal footing. Still, when we resume our roles, Billy-boy and I are more relaxed and savor our Domme/Sub existence. Of course, I am not very experienced and every day I seem to find pleasure some new entertainment.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Y... I beleive that a Master must have his sub's welfare at heart. I do not think a Master without regard for the sub's wellbeing is true to the lifestyle. Pleasure exists in the relationship because 'both' enjoy their roles and respect the other's role.
Just a thought.

Sometimes, pleasure is found in what are unconventional ways to another, sometimes having a sub's welfare at heart does not mean the same as it does to another D/s couple.

Catalina