Difference between subs and slaves

[the captians wench]

Ever go to work sick? I can count the number of days I've missed due to illness in the past ten years on one hand. It's just how I am. I'm sure you've done the same. For that matter, did your mom get sick when you were a kid and still take care of you? (no offense if she did not, or if your mother was not around, this is just a common example most people can get) When viv gets sick, if she isn't completely laid out, she still takes care of the kids, M/s or not. I have to work, and I can't afford to take a day off and take care of the kids because she has a cold. If she's flat on her back I would, but not just because she is feeling bad. When you take on a duty, you do your level best to uphold that duty.

That said, when one of my gals is wrecked, I take care of her. that is how it works.

Well shit, that's how it was in my nilla marriage. If I was sick, it was no big deal, life had to carry on, unless I was down bad. But if he was sick, the world came to a stand still while I nursed him back to health. *shrug*

 

[pink]

Yeah, I was going to say that, too. I couldn't tell you how many times I've been told that because I switch, I can't possibly be "real." I mean, scroll up, and you'll see that. I get tired of that bullshit. Until you walk in my shoes, you have no fucking idea what my life is like.

May i ask, why do you consider yourself a switch?


i will say, i've been both a sub and a slave. The words to differentiate between the two are hard to come by but in my heart, i know the difference and neither one is better than the other. They simply are.

 

[BiBunny]

May i ask, why do you consider yourself a switch?


i will say, i've been both a sub and a slave. The words to differentiate between the two are hard to come by but in my heart, i know the difference and neither one is better than the other. They simply are.

Because I am a switch.

I have been a slave/pet/collared sub/what-have-you. I don't want to go back to that now, but that doesn't lessen the commitment I had then. I am mostly a Top nowadays, though I bottom occasionally to get my maso fix.

I'm difficult, LOL.

 

[pink]

Because I am a switch.

I have been a slave/pet/collared sub/what-have-you. I don't want to go back to that now, but that doesn't lessen the commitment I had then. I am mostly a Top nowadays, though I bottom occasionally to get my maso fix.

I'm difficult, LOL.

i understand.

The reason i've asked is because i do enjoy doing things which some people might term dominant behavior. The big difference with me is i don't do them to dominant anyone, i do them to simply bring pleasure. i'm not trying to top anyone.

Thank you for answering me.

 

[subbie_333]

Oh, I hate kids. What else ya got?

OMG That just sets my heart a flutter

 

[subbie_333]

Because I am a switch.

I have been a slave/pet/collared sub/what-have-you. I don't want to go back to that now, but that doesn't lessen the commitment I had then. I am mostly a Top nowadays, though I bottom occasionally to get my maso fix.

I'm difficult, LOL.

{ BELLS SIRENS FLASHING-LIGHTS }

***** sarcasm alert *****

{ rolls eyes }

Dominants are high maintenance and switches are difficult. What are us poor submissives/slaves/bottoms/insert-your-own-damn-word to do?

{ BELLS SIRENS FLASHING-LIGHTS }

***** end of sarcasm alert *****

 

[the captians wench]

{ BELLS SIRENS FLASHING-LIGHTS }

***** sarcasm alert *****

{ rolls eyes }

Dominants are high maintenance and switches are difficult. What are us poor submissives/slaves/bottoms/insert-your-own-damn-word to do?

{ BELLS SIRENS FLASHING-LIGHTS }

***** end of sarcasm alert *****

We smile and nod a lot, and when in doubt flash your tits. *nods*

 

[Bandit58]

Ever go to work sick? I can count the number of days I've missed due to illness in the past ten years on one hand. It's just how I am. I'm sure you've done the same. For that matter, did your mom get sick when you were a kid and still take care of you? (no offense if she did not, or if your mother was not around, this is just a common example most people can get) When viv gets sick, if she isn't completely laid out, she still takes care of the kids, M/s or not. I have to work, and I can't afford to take a day off and take care of the kids because she has a cold. If she's flat on her back I would, but not just because she is feeling bad. When you take on a duty, you do your level best to uphold that duty.

That said, when one of my gals is wrecked, I take care of her. that is how it works.

I am rarely ill. Most of my time is spent taking care of Sir If I do get sick, I tend not to say too much because He has enough to worry about without worrying about me.

There have been a couple of times though, like when I had the flu one time, or when I broke my toe, that Sir took care of me - and I have to admit that it felt very wrong for that to be happening. I had to tell myself to sit/lie still and let Him do things for me Obeying the order from Him to do the same was very hard

 

[subbie_333]

We smile and nod a lot, and when in doubt flash your tits. *nods*

i seriously doubt mine look anywhere near as good as yours

 

[Netzach]

I don't get like the last 20 pages of argument.

I've had safewordless scenes with people I don't know the first names of. Just because the power exchange has a finite beginning and end, to me, doesn't make it less complete or total. If someone's in my hands for 2 hours completely or 12 years - they're different things, as going out on a date and being married are - but why M/s is ONLY defined as the latter makes no sense to me.

You can have a complete power imbalance total control scenario with a total stranger.

You can fuck a stranger or a spouse.

Yeah, I prefer to fuck my spouse, too. But it's not "not really sex" if I fuck a stranger.

I think the investment M and I have in each other, through arguments, struggles, crap ass days, him supporting me in every sense of the word through a YEAR of illness is more devotion than if we were both perfectly healthy and more set with where we want to be in life fiscally and he said "tell me my limits."

The former is much more enduring, for me, personally.

And has nothing to do with D/s at all.

I like when it overlaps with some quality opportunities to spank him and order him around, though - in fact that's critical for a good relationship with me.

 

[Netzach]

Also by a lot of people's definitions of it I am a retarded asshat, apparently.

The kink H and I share involves a certain liberal dose of "I do not care about your mental goodness or not goodness."

 

[the captians wench]

i seriously doubt mine look anywhere near as good as yours

.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Like others, I could not have considered myself a slave while we were LDR.

For us, I was still a slave mainly because it was a short period of time while I was moving to him, and even with the distance we were on IM or phone 12-20 hours a day everyday. That being said, it was not TPE, nor could I say it was the same as being under the same roof. The mindset can be there 100%, but there is a huge difference, at least for us, when I am available to him 24/7 in more than word and intention, and of which he makes use of. That constant service under his watchful eye (lol, even when I think he isn't paying attention and discover at a later time just how much he is) makes the rare occasion when I am totally on my own feel very strange and at times welcome just to be able to take an extra breath, not be waiting for an instruction at any moment (though he may phone, but rarely does), etc.

LOL, yes, it sounds very unslavelike, but when we live in such constant closeness and I in continual service, though I am all too aware I am his slave and owned even on the rare alone times (and serving him in some way), it is not the same intensity nor as demanding as when in the same room or at most the next room listening for his orders...of course, if he wasn't so demanding, no doubt I would not like it or appreciate what we have so much....light and shade is good as a reminder.

Catalina

 

[BeachGurl2]

That being said, it was not TPE, nor could I say it was the same as being under the same roof. The mindset can be there 100%, but there is a huge difference, at least for us, when I am available to him 24/7 in more than word and intention, and of which he makes use of. That constant service under his watchful eye (lol, even when I think he isn't paying attention and discover at a later time just how much he is) makes the rare occasion when I am totally on my own feel very strange and at times welcome just to be able to take an extra breath, not be waiting for an instruction at any moment (though he may phone, but rarely does), etc.

Catalina

While there are the obvious differences between sub and slave here, I believe that the differences between online and physical are there whether sub or slave. And for some who call themselves slave while online, the reality of 24/7 can be a very rude awakening and they can discover that being a slave is not at all what they expected. But again, that's equally true for subs. Being a sub/slave online and following some instructions over a webcam or phone is very, very different from being in the same room 24/7. And I'm just not sure that the discussion can be as valid when you combine the experiences of the online sub/slave with the real life sub/slave. I know that's an unpopular view, but it's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

 

[serijules]

Online relationships and real time relationships are not the same. I rarely see anyone claim otherwise. That is not to say online relationships are not valid, but until you meet someone in person, submit to those words in person, feel that pain, deal with the differences and quirks that don't come across online....the relationship will not reach the level that it does in person. I think most of us agree to this, some are just more bent on arguing those differences rather than just accepting that differences are there. Online is no less valid as far as feelings go and really, isn't most of what we do based on feelings?

Is there a difference between online relationships and long distance? Sure there is. Online usually implies the partners have not met. Long distance means they have and do. This is a rather significant difference. The only difference between long distance relationships and non-long-distance relationships for most is....wait for it!

Distance.

Sure it affects the happenings and timings of our relationship, but it doesn't affect our commitment or my level of focus or my experience at serving her nor does it affect our FEELINGS. When I visit, life still happens, kink still happens, illnesses happen, misunderstandings happen, you name it. Same as when we are apart. My understanding of what I am getting into and what it feels like is based on actual knowledge though, so while the feelings may be the same as online, the physical knowledge takes it up a level. The feelings now are based on something solid as well as something mental. This is almost always going to be valuable and necessary in a relationship in order for it to grow. Most of us want to grow in our relationships or things get stale and die out.

Subs and slaves are different, we've deducted that from this and many other gazillion-page-long "discussion". What exactly that difference is will never be revealed no matter how much you beat the dead horse because it simply is not something you can pull out of Websters. It always has and always will be a personally defined role. The difference that works in my mind and my relationship may not work in yours.

For ME, the difference is simply one of service and limits, or lack thereof.

Somehow, this doesn't make me a doormat or someone with no ability or right to feel or have opinions. Baffling, ain't it?

Ma'am rather likes that. What an oddball she is. Slaves can't have BRAINS!

Letsee, whatelse....

Oh, yes, the never ending "of course you can walk away if you want to" thing. Yes, yes, you can....physically. Mentally, things are not always that easy. Ever known someone with a religious belief? Physically they can walk away from their beliefs and commitments. Mentally, they are devoted to a belief with such a depth that no, just one day up and walking away and saying "oh you are right, the catholic church and all I've believed for most of my life sucks! I'm leaving!". For some, our slavery and relationships come with deep seated beliefs, one of them being that we are devoted for life and to question our devotion is something akin to sin. I can no more walk away from, nor do I even WANT to, my beliefs that my body is property of Ma'am, period, than most people can walk away from their belief in God or that the sky is blue or that we really did evolve from chimps.

Most of us have enough sense to not go around telling god-fearing people or *insert some other religion or belief* here that they are crazy and there really ISN'T a god/whatnot....why are some of you all so ready to argue the beliefs and commitment of a slave? Most arguments I've heard regarding things that are not my belief seem pretty far-fetched to me but I accept that it's a strong belief and respect the merit of it even though it is not something I believe in. I would think the same concept should apply to ANY belief, including that of a slave who has given herself to another, legal or binding or not.

There, I covered my opinions on everything, all in one post! I go nap now.

 

[serijules]

Oh, yeah, I forgot.

Velveeta rules!

 

[catalina_francisco]

The only difference between long distance relationships and non-long-distance relationships for most is....wait for it!

Distance.

While I agree with most of what you have said, and with all due respect understand it is your opinion that distance is the only real difference, from my perspective of living and experiencing both I would disagree, at least for us in the way we live it. Distance was emotionally painful and a pain in the arse, but it didn't take away from the commitment we had made, nor was it the biggest or only difference. It is very easy to be 100% obedient and submissive and attentive when only doing face to face it for a short period of time (days/weeks/ a month or so)...move that to a situation where it is 24/7 and in person month in, month out, and the difference is huge for us.

What I hear from many who only have that short time together when possible is a lot of fun times, a lot of making up for lost time, a lot of play, a lot of attention, a lot of consideration, a lot of excitement at the prospect of the next meeting, a lot of sorrow at parting and helping each other through that. When that becomes permanently under the same roof it is not possible to maintain those things full on day in, day out or you risk burn out and losing the dynamic. That in turn leads to a reality check, and as BeachGurl said, a lot of people finding it isn't what they expected at all, or find easy.

It isn't only the mundane taking over in that it isn't always possible to run out to a party, wine and dine, schedule playtime each day etc., all the things that take the edge off and make it exciting and intense, it is also being on call whenever. And yes, I know people in long distance often claim they are available 24/7, but reality is I rarely if ever hear when a pyl is called at 3 am and told to jump a plane to be there to cook breakfast etc., but often hear that it could happen but doesn't because it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make practical sense to jump a plane to do that and most would not consider demanding it.

Being together daily changes that, at least for us it does, where there are many demands throughout the day and night, often without warning, often inconvenient and difficult, and not necessarily difficult one offs every few days/weeks and then given a break of easier demands and/or freedom to go to work, study, visit friends, go shopping etc. The point is there is no break, there is no time where you get the luxury of thinking you will do as expected, then take time out to visit your friends and go to a movie or shopping, have the luxury of just relaxing for awhile, freedom to just be or get doen what you feel needs doing when...it is a situation of constant service and putting aside your life permanently for another.

Being a loner most of my life and treasuring time alone, freedom to do as I want and when, freedom to explore and experience the world, it is extremely difficult to be constantly on call and feel watched even if you are not being watched minute to minute, even when asleep. It isn't about competing, or one being better than the other, but it is about recognising the very real difference between the two. I knew it would be different before the move, so it wasn't that I was shocked, but it was important to realise the difference just as much as it was to recognise what I was agreeing to when I agreed to TPE and how vastly different that reality would be.

Catalina

 

[serijules]

The extreme of difference may have been that dramatic for you Cat, but it doesn't quite mesh with my experiences. I've been there for long periods of time, I've been away for long periods of time. Our relationship isn't and never has revolved around "play", so much of what we do just isn't impacted a whole lot by the distance. I still do laundry and clean house and cook and juggle all the things she expects me to do when I'm there, when I am home. Sure I may not be able to fetch her tea or cook her eggs, but I still do research for her schoolwork and pay her bills and things like that. The distance doesn't affect that. I don't go places without her permission, or form friendships without her input, etc. I dunno, a whole lot just simply doesn't change for us other than the fact that yeah, there is a lot of distance between us that is inconvenient. It doesn't affect my ability to still serve her and be her slave, it just affects the dynamics of how that is done. *shrugs*

 

[catalina_francisco]

The extreme of difference may have been that dramatic for you Cat, but it doesn't quite mesh with my experiences. I've been there for long periods of time, I've been away for long periods of time. Our relationship isn't and never has revolved around "play", so much of what we do just isn't impacted a whole lot by the distance. I still do laundry and clean house and cook and juggle all the things she expects me to do when I'm there, when I am home. Sure I may not be able to fetch her tea or cook her eggs, but I still do research for her schoolwork and pay her bills and things like that. The distance doesn't affect that. I don't go places without her permission, or form friendships without her input, etc. I dunno, a whole lot just simply doesn't change for us *shrugs*

I guess you will have to experience it to recognise the difference. I also did a lot for F while we were LD from editing in english for his work and professional writing as it is his 3rd language to arranging specific things for him, completing personal tasks he set, as well as making sure I was online most of the day and night which was extremely difficult to do and manage my other responsibilities such as elderly parents to help out and support, children, grandchild, and pets to take care of as well as my own bills to pay, cleaning to do, laundry, shopping, cooking, huge yard to mow, appointments to keep. Other than the being online all hours, the rest were tasks set or given with a 'done by' time which I could then decide as to when to do them according to my daily life comings and goings, as long as they were done by the time set....and which usually was in the same day or next.

The luxury of not having him looking over my shoulder, or asking for a cup of coffee the minute I sat down to do them, or got ready to go to a doctor's appointment I was running late for was indeed a luxury. Also knowing that when my head hit the pillow I would be free to sleep without interruption was also good, and when he did occasionally call and wake me it was a delightful surprise. Being together though means those luxuries are not usually available and yes, he has looked over my shoulder while I edited a 30-50 page technical report for him, as well as asking me to go quicker, fetch him coffee, get him a sandwich, massage his back etc., (all in the middle of editing for him), and as he is a chronic insomniac, it is rare I get to sleep uninterrupted for long.

With distance these things are usually welcome novelties and opportunities to show submission, with familiarity and frequency they can become nerve jangling and stressful despite wanting to serve and being happy to do so. It doesn't detract from the desire to serve or please, but it does create a lot more pressure with few or no breaks in between and continuously being at an observable distance. LOL, even giving a sigh on a hot day when I'm not feeling well will attract a need for an explanation, often followed by another task or two he would like done immediately. There have been times I have found myself working as quiet as possible in the hope he won't remember I am there and ask anything extra of me in that moment. ROFL, I often think of it like juggling 4 oranges and then someone tossing you 4 more all at once and without warning, all wet and slippery, and expecting you to carry on undeterred with a smile on your face and not dropping one or changing pace. Perhaps it is also about how demanding the PYL is....if they make few demands and allow for tasks to be done when possible within a specific and generous time frame perhaps it is not that different to LD except for the physical presence and needing to be 'on' as some call it, on a permanent basis. All I know is I have done it both ways, and with the same person, and can say in all honesty I cannot compare the two and say distance was the only difference.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

It's a good thing not everyone is F, then.

Because that's not how I manage H when he's here and never would be. I simply don't have that much of my life that I want other people doing FOR ME regularly. When I want it, I want it. But don't hold your breath - there are long dry spells of nothing.

Also considering how much of the limited face time we've had in the last three years involves hanging out with me after surgery and listening to me bitch about prednisone and getting my meds and keeping my mother off my back and how LITTLE involves beatings...

it's definitely not the same to move in and be romantic partners. It's also not the goal for everyone. But to say that that reality doesn't enter distance relationships makes little sense to me. He's been here for the least fun times of my life. So has M, so has T. They all passed that one swimmingly.

I guess I'm 7/24, but I've always been like that.

 

[serijules]

Ok but that is YOU....slavery doesn't mean that someone has to be watching over your shoulder every minute in order for it to really be slavery? Our relationship isn't like that. I have more space than you apparently do, so no, there is not going to be this sudden nerve-wracking shift that you seemed to experience. We've been doing this for four years, I'm pretty sure we know what to expect We are rather bright people and all. Other life experiences allow us a lot of leverage as well.

When I visit we don't suddenly go into this play play play mode. Life goes on, she still works, I serve, others get attention during the time I am there, and heck, a lot of the time is spent with her sleeping and me carrying out the things I usually do when we are apart! It isn't all about kink despite the limited time we get to focus on kink. We don't have that luxury now and we won't when I move there. Ma'am has gone from long distance with others to living with them...she didn't find the shift nearly as jolting as you seemed to have either. So I'm suggesting that may be more YOUR situation than the norm.

Your situation was pretty unusual cat, and I respect that your experience was different, but what I'm talking about is my own experience and beliefs....not yours. I understand that you disagree based on your own, but the point I was trying to make is that distance does not always have the huge dramatic affect some people insist it does because when it comes down to it, I feel a relationship is based on, grows on, thrives on feelings and feelings, fortunately, can adapt through an amazing amount of distance. You usually choose to discuss semantics instead. We differ in that way

 

[intothewoods]

<snip>
Most of us have enough sense to not go around telling god-fearing people or *insert some other religion or belief* here that they are crazy and there really ISN'T a god/whatnot....why are some of you all so ready to argue the beliefs and commitment of a slave? Most arguments I've heard regarding things that are not my belief seem pretty far-fetched to me but I accept that it's a strong belief and respect the merit of it even though it is not something I believe in. I would think the same concept should apply to ANY belief, including that of a slave who has given herself to another, legal or binding or not.

Actually, people do this all the time to those who are religious! But anyway. I don't discount anyone's beliefs or dedication. I merely ask that they not pretend they didn't have a choice in the matter.

 

[serijules]

Actually, people do this all the time to those who are religious! But anyway. I don't discount anyone's beliefs or dedication. I merely ask that they not pretend they didn't have a choice in the matter.

Well, true, they do, but it's rude <g>

I don't think it's so much pretending though as simply being that devoted to your beliefs. It's little different than religion and the beliefs that often go with it. Some of those beliefs are pretty damn far-fetched. Would you ask those people to stop "pretending" they have say, proof of their beliefs? Cuz i have yet to see ANY religion be "proved" by anything more than stories and personal beliefs, which isn't exactly solid proof.

 

[intothewoods]

Well, true, they do, but it's rude <g>

I don't think it's so much pretending though as simply being that devoted to your beliefs. It's little different than religion and the beliefs that often go with it. Some of those beliefs are pretty damn far-fetched. Would you ask those people to stop "pretending" they have say, proof of their beliefs? Cuz i have yet to see ANY religion be "proved" by anything more than stories and personal beliefs, which isn't exactly solid proof.

Nope, but I tend to be friends with religious folks who are aware that their religious persuasion is a combination of faith and background, and are self-aware enough to have a sense of how they got there.

But not every religious person is like this, and to each his own. If a person wants to believe their Master is God Almighty and they were chosen by him to serve, with little choice in the matter, and that makes them happy, enjoy.

 

[serijules]

Nope, but I tend to be friends with religious folks who are aware that their religious persuasion is a combination of faith and background, and are self-aware enough to have a sense of how they got there.

But not every religious person is like this, and to each his own. If a person wants to believe their Master is God Almighty and they were chosen by him to serve, with little choice in the matter, and that makes them happy, enjoy.

I personally don't believe in the hard-core no choice belief. I know that I could leave if I really wanted to, but I don't tend to think like that because it's just rather pointless. I don't intend to leave, but I don't know what the future holds either.

I guess I have a deeper understanding of this lately after watching this show on Polygamist sects the other day. People kept asking, why don't the women and children just LEAVE if it is that bad for them, if they want to leave? Fact is, they simply can't. It isn't even an option they can imagine because of the way they were raised, their beliefs, etc. As crazy as it seemed to me that they would choose to stay in the conditions they were in, I could also see how deeply their beliefs had a grip on them.

Trying to tell them that their world was not very normal and convince them that there was something better out there would be much like someone coming to me and telling me that my world is really fucked up and that Polygamist sects are REALLY how life should be.

Somehow that resonated with me and I can understand more how some slaves simply don't believe in the choice of leaving.