Do Dominants

[RavenSpirit2k4]

Re: Re: Re: For me

Agreed!

Thank you, Fungi.

I just want to add - yes, I'm aware that hard limits can change, I've seen this myself. That doesn't mean a sub's hard limits can change just because the dom/me wants them too, though.

 

[AvaAdore]

Re: For me

for me, its not about inflicting the pain, but it is about having the authority to do so. For me, it is all about power exchange.

I used to use this example to explain it. Suppose I had a sub. I pick her up at her place and tell her that I am taking her to a hotel. At the hotel we will be in a suite. There will be five other men there. She will be the only woman, and she will be naked the entire time we are there. She will serve the other men there as she would me, meaning sexually, anything goes.

The answer I want from my sub is "Yes, Sir." Even if loaning her out or multiple partners are hard limits with her, she should say, "Yes, Sir." Because I know her, and her welfare is in my hands, she needs to trust me that I wouldn't do anything to violate her trust or to put her into danger. Trusting that, she would be able to say, "Yes, Sir."

I do not enjoy inflicting pain. But I will do it to demonstrate my authority over my sub. And I will do it if she enjoys it. I'd rather exert control over her in other ways. I'd rather control her orgasms, her sexuality. I will also do it in punishment for infractions, affronts and the like.

But any enjoyment that I get out of inflicting pain is not from the act of inflicting it, but from having the power to do so.


Kurt

A hard limit means "no means no". Not "wait till I get her to trust me more and then I'll do it."

For example, I will never allow someone to fuck my ass and then my pussy straight afterwords without washing or changing condoms. It's for hygeine reasons, but it's still a very hard limit. I don't care how much I trust my partner, it's not going to happen.

The worst thing you can do is gain their trust and then break their hard limits or even make pretenses of doing so. It's just not cool. I've had it happen (not in a BDSM context, but it was exactly the same principle), and I was completely shattered. It's equivalent to rape.

 

[barcaboy]

Having started out as a sub myself, I agree with the "hard is hard"party line. If anyone is ever going to move that line, it's the sub, on their own, who redraws the boundary, without coercion or manipulation. End of story. (At least in my skerry of the Dark World.)

But having said that, I wonder if there is something almost inherent in a relationship founded on power & pain play/exploration/discovery for the sadistic/authority-smitten party to want more, more, MORE ! I've seen that side of myself in action, and have had to ratchet things back, both to get back to a place I felt comfortable and to avoid breaching the trust already established.

All the more reason, at least in my case, for the hard boundaries to stay intact. Good fences make good play pals.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Bump

 

[catalina_francisco]

that like to inflict pain and humiliate do it because it hurts, or because they care about the person who needs it and understand that need?
Also would the Dominant get more of a thrill if the pyl didn't enjoy it?

Great topic KC..wondered how I missed it first time around, but from the dates it was not the greatest time in my life. I think in speaking of our journey, in the beginning it was a matter of the first statement, a matter of answering both our needs in a straightforward manner, understanding, but still looking for the direct pleasure in the pain or humiliation inflicted.

As we have settled more into the relationship, moved forward in our own limits and goals, it has become a huge thrill for him to know I am not entirely enjoying that which he is causing. There is still caring, but he does not make the decision as much on how he thinks it will be received by me as he once did perhaps. That being said, he also knows that at the end of the day I have also moved to a place where that thrills me no end too. It is an interesting circle to travel and observe as well as experience with one you trust and love.

Catalina

 

[grinner666]

Re: Re: For me

I'm a switch; nowadays I mostly top. But I started out as a sub. And let me tell you, buddy, if you'd been my dom and blatantly disregarded my hard limits like that, you'd have been lucky to live though the night.

I'm so very, very sick of seeing this sort of thing. "Even if it's one of her hard limits, she's supposed to trust me". You don't get it or something? Hard limits mean never, nada, no way, not doing it, period. Yet I see exactly this every time I turn around, doms who think a hard limit is something they can't do to the sub during just the first session.

I try not to tell people how their BDSM relationship is supposed to be, but I've had enough of this. If you blantantly disregard a sub's hard liits, you've crossed the line into abuse.
Ok, I've said my piece. Flame away.

Hear, hear. I'm not a sub, have none of those tendencies, just can't get my head around what makes if work for my sub . . . though I'm learning, slowly. But I agree wholeheartedly.

A hard boundary is sacrosanct in my personal headspace, and I have absolutely no respect for any "Dom" who would fuck with one. Even pushing at it in the way CmdrGdHrt apparently feels free to do is simply unacceptable, and to attempt to punish a sub for enforcing the agreement s/he has made with You is a deal-breaker, as far as I'm concerned. It's a shitty thing to do, and I sincerely hope some sub decides to kick the living crap out of this clown some day for it.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Yes.

To all of the questions you pose KC.

There are many types of pain that serve many purposes. It is in the choice of the partner that I find My pleasure in their torment not simply the torment as a blanket act.

example...My girl would be destroyed by any form of humiliation. I have no interest in destroying her. Pain is new to her as she has come directly to Me from the vanilla world so I get little pleasure in letting loose with My full arsenal.

I train and nurture her slowly and with pride in her development and can do so in patience because I know that her training simply prepares her for the Master I will choose for her eventually.

One of My boys is so sweet that he is irrisistable but pain causes him fear. Humiliation is edgy for him yet he is devoted and serves without question. he serves some of My needs and I am content to take him only as far and as fast as his gentle nature allows.

One of My slaves simply cannot resist slavery. He does not enjoy pain and will obey anything to avoid it. I enjoy giving him pain whether he enjoys it or not for through that pain he experiences pride and growth in his endurance. Humiliation humbles him and so I enjoy humiliating him for My amusement as well. Different strokes for different folks but always what I derive pleasure from with the particular toy in question fullfills Me.

My primary slave brings Me pleasure by enduring without question. I get a great deal of pleasure inflicting pain and humiliation on him. Whether he enjoys it or not is of no interest to Me what interests Me is that he obeys without question. This slave is My magic.

Now how is that for a long ramble just to say it depends?

I shadowsdream

 

[Luftballons]

i just have a quick question that i think is related to the board... (at least all this talk of boundaries.) It seems that a lot of The Lifestyle is involved with pushing limits, perhaps getting rid of fears. How is one supposed to differenciate between "save" fears and "bad" fears. For instance, i have a fear of not being able to see (blindfolds and such) and after a few sessions i'm starting to get over the fear so that it gives me enough of a fear to give me dependance on my Miss, but doesn't completely creep me out. At the same time i have a childhood fear of closets (accidently locked in one as a child) that my Miss said she would stay far away from, so.. is it just activities that are involved in The Lifestyle or pushing oundaries as a whole, and if it *IS* as pushing boundaries as a whole, i don't understand how you tell between serious fears (closets) and safe fears (blindfolds).

 

[Evil_Geoff]

that like to inflict pain and humiliate do it because it hurts, or because they care about the person who needs it and understand that need?
Also would the Dominant get more of a thrill if the pyl didn't enjoy it?

This one is easy to answer!

YES! *LOL*

I say yes because:
#1 - I'm a sadist - I enjoy inflicting pain and fear on others.
#2 - I'm also caring and compassionate. Meeting the needs of my partner is important to me.
#3 - I'm a Dominant - I enjoy someone surrendering themselves to my will and desires, it is even more poignant when they submerge their own pleasure in order to accomodate mine. See #1 *LOL*

 

[Evil_Geoff]

i just have a quick question that i think is related to the board... (at least all this talk of boundaries.) It seems that a lot of The Lifestyle is involved with pushing limits, perhaps getting rid of fears. How is one supposed to differenciate between "save" fears and "bad" fears. For instance, i have a fear of not being able to see (blindfolds and such) and after a few sessions i'm starting to get over the fear so that it gives me enough of a fear to give me dependance on my Miss, but doesn't completely creep me out. At the same time i have a childhood fear of closets (accidently locked in one as a child) that my Miss said she would stay far away from, so.. is it just activities that are involved in The Lifestyle or pushing oundaries as a whole, and if it *IS* as pushing boundaries as a whole, i don't understand how you tell between serious fears (closets) and safe fears (blindfolds).

This lifestyle is NOT about pushing limits. It's about building trust. In the building of that trust, some limits might get pushed, bent, or completely removed. But how do you tell which limits can be worked through and which should never be pushed?

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure how you tell the difference except perhaps by very thorough communication. Example from my personal relationship.

I like anal sex. It's hot, to me. For my girl, it's a hard limit. I know and understand why it's a hard limit. But I am also determined that in time, through trust, love and surrender, that hard limit WILL go down. Why? Because I am her Master, and I will not allow a limit someone else imposed on her to stand. Because I will own her, completely, heart, body and soul. Because I will return to her something that was taken away from her by force and pain.

This is not something I undertake lightly. It is not something I will do right now or in the immediate future (we've been together almost 3 years, I'm VERY patient regarding this issue). I'm not, in fact, going to _push_ this limit. What I am doing is making it safe for her to surrender that limit to me, and voluntarily put it aside.

It's ALL about trust, judgement, power, surrender, authority, obedience, control, needs and expectations being met, it's about growing beyond who you thought you were and becoming who you really are. It's the journey, not the destination that is important, because the journey never ends, we never reach the destination. If you reach the point in your life where you think "I've done it all, I'm satisfied, there's nothing more for me to learn/do/explore/experience..." it's time to punch out and make room for someone else.

As always, my opinions are just that, opinons. They are not facts, rules, laws or ordinances. Use what works for you and yours, discard the rest.

I remain,

 

[Caitlynne]

But I am also determined that in time, through trust, love and surrender, that hard limit WILL go down. Why? Because I am her Master, and I will not allow a limit someone else imposed on her to stand. Because I will own her, completely, heart, body and soul. Because I will return to her something that was taken away from her by force and pain.

Limits are [self] imposed on us through life experience, through cultural mores, etc. Some of it is merely a defense mechanism that was formed when we might have been in danger. Freeing a submissive from such a limit through trust , love and surrender just makes me want to smile.