do they know what poetry is?

[sandspike]

Well, perhaps.

I think that is overstatement. I would call much of it different art, appealing to a different audience.

Joe Sixpack is not going to sit down and read Pound's Cantos. I very much doubt that anybody is going to just sit down and read the Cantos. Too much personal imagery and obscure referents. But it is something that I think is well worth working through, albeit armed with a couple of interpretive texts to help me understand what the hell old dotty Ezra is talking about.

Accessibility is a matter of style. I find Ted Kooser and Kim (sigh) Addonizio both very straightforward and easy to understand. (Even my autonomic nervous system understands Kim.) Pound and Eliot, or Kenneth Koch for that matter, are poets whose writing I find more obscure. But I still enjoy reading their poetry. It's just more work.

If I want to use a metaphor that most people won't understand (say, piezoelectricity), then I've probably limited my audience significantly. So long as I understand that, I don't see it as a problem.

piezoelectricity? That ain't limited. That is limp. I found it in the dictionary
and found no valve for it in poetry. While I do like your AV's and your poetry,
just tell this dumbass why you would want to write above most readers.
I found that statement shocking. Oh yeah, I have a sixpack and I ain't afraid
to use it.

 

[Wandadollgirl]

Still don't know

Read all six pages. Very interesting. But, honestly, I still don't know for sure what poetry is or how to write it. And I read poetry more than anything else. Books of poetry. Long, narrative poems, sonnets, haiku...I read it all. I parse the lines, count the syllables, note the rhymes. But I still can't write it, tho' I surely try. And I am not always sure that what I am reading really is poetry.

Okay. An example:

"Meeting you that night
within the jet black darkness,
but parting at dawn
without seeing you again--
oh, how I now regret it!"

Is this a poem? Or just a sentence broken up into five lines? If it is a poem--WHY is it a poem? If not, why not?

(Oh, "officially" it's a poem, taken from the "Manyoshu," a collection of 8th century Japanese poetry.)

Really would like some input.

 

[Sabina_Tolchovsky]

If you don't know, I don't think it can be explained...no offense
~it's a poet thing.

hair of the dog...I had to buy a new bottle of scotch.

ps. Anna, I'm still waiting for you to come on over and show me that new red hair...

 

[Tzara]

piezoelectricity? That ain't limited. That is limp. I found it in the dictionary
and found no valve for it in poetry. While I do like your AV's and your poetry,
just tell this dumbass why you would want to write above most readers.
I found that statement shocking. Oh yeah, I have a sixpack and I ain't afraid
to use it.

I didn't say I was writing above most readers. I said I used a metaphor I wouldn't expect most people to get. They can, of course, look it up, as you did.

The same was true the other day when I used "spinnaker" and "sheet" in a poem. I'm not sure I would expect most people to know those words in the context I was trying to use them. Probably more, though, than would know what "piezoelectric" means. You knew them in the context they were meant (and, based on your response, apparently know much more about sailing than I do, which isn't much).

All I was trying to say was that if I (or anyone else) select to use certain words or events in a poem, they may not be recognized by everyone, which limits the audience for the poem. But I may want to use them anyway. Why? Because it's interesting.

Maybe I should follow ee's example and write about TV dinners.

bird's eye flash
frozen on its prey—
meal on a tray​

I think I'll have a beer.

 

[Angeline]

Wise...

Huh? Wise enough for what? To not worry over an empty threat? To not care if you <gasp> insult me, tell me to fuck off, say my poems suck? Oh, I know! You can use your alts to 1-bomb my poems or vote me down in the big contest. Yeah, I think I'm wise enough not to be perturbed by anything so juvenile.

I stand by what I said. Whether that bothers you seems to be your problem, not mine.

 

[Wandadollgirl]

If you don't know, I don't think it can be explained...no offense
~it's a poet thing.

Well, I don't think you know either. You're just bluffing...no offense--it's a bullshit detector thing.

 

[Liar]

What's y'all people bitchin' about this time?

 

[WickedEve]

Huh? Wise enough for what? To not worry over an empty threat? To not care if you <gasp> insult me, tell me to fuck off, say my poems suck? Oh, I know! You can use your alts to 1-bomb my poems or vote me down in the big contest. Yeah, I think I'm wise enough not to be perturbed by anything so juvenile.

I stand by what I said. Whether that bothers you seems to be your problem, not mine.

Gosh, you're such a bitch. See? It's not me. It's her. She's the bad one.
Bad, bad Deviline.

 

[Angeline]

Gosh, you're such a bitch. See? It's not me. It's her. She's the bad one.
Bad, bad Deviline.

This is how alts are born you know. And you're a sick fuck. Or is it that American woman I'm thinking of?

I will rein myself in and be sweet again. I hate it when you tell people my halo fell in the onion dip.

 

[WickedEve]

This is how alts are born you know. And you're a sick fuck. Or is it that American woman I'm thinking of?

I will rein myself in and be sweet again. I hate it when you tell people my halo fell in the onion dip.

We'd make a great team. Deviline and SickFuck: poetic terrors.

 

[Angeline]

We'd make a great team. Deviline and SickFuck: poetic terrors.

They sound like the names of heavy metal bands.

 

[champagne1982]

Read all six pages. Very interesting. But, honestly, I still don't know for sure what poetry is or how to write it. And I read poetry more than anything else. Books of poetry. Long, narrative poems, sonnets, haiku...I read it all. I parse the lines, count the syllables, note the rhymes. But I still can't write it, tho' I surely try. And I am not always sure that what I am reading really is poetry.

Okay. An example:

"Meeting you that night
within the jet black darkness,
but parting at dawn
without seeing you again--
oh, how I now regret it!"

Is this a poem? Or just a sentence broken up into five lines? If it is a poem--WHY is it a poem? If not, why not?

(Oh, "officially" it's a poem, taken from the "Manyoshu," a collection of 8th century Japanese poetry.)

Really would like some input.

This is very likely even more poetic in the original language. It seems it could be erotic within the culture it was written into as well. Since the poet's not around to ask though, can we really be sure? I think the whole thing about poetry isn't that we follow rules to produce it, but instead, to allow it to transport us beyond the rules.

One more thing, thanks for being self-effacing, I can't write either, but I try and when I have a collection of words arranged in a way I find represents poetry then I boldly step out and show it to people who read that kind of thing.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Liar]

We'd make a great team. Deviline and SickFuck: poetic terrors.

That's _almost_ arousing.

 

[twelveoone]

We'd make a great team. Deviline and SickFuck: poetic terrors.

All hail Deviline and SicKFuck
More Deviline and SicKFuck
As much as I like Angeline and WickedEve. ...

Two of the better poets around here, of divergent styles. Certainly better than some "professional" poets I might add. Consider that a testament to the quality of some around here. Let's talk quality, can anyone duplicate their efforts? Probably not. The example Eve gives at the beginning of this thread, most here could do. If they wanted to. This has nothing to do with elitism, it has to do with value.

Those who cannot make the distinction that perhaps someone has more talent or employs tools more effectively in their efforts are fooling yourself, compounding their self deception with nothing statements about "poetry being felt", "soul" , adnauseum.

Rock on Angeline and WickedEve
All hail Deviline and SicKFuck

ps. Tzara your writing, is as brillant as ever.