Do you believe spanking is an appropriate discipline for a child?

[scotsmitch2001]

No......

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

The last guy I said that to tried to argue that punishing me for an invented infraction was part of mind fucking. [No that's a great way to piss me off and mess with my head in a bad way.]

That pissed me off too, once upon a time. Afterwards, I'd counter with a 'I don't process that concept at all. If you want to 'punish' me, then just bloody say it's because you want to. That I can understand.'

Making things up just confused me, and my idea of what was expected. But it would keep on happening. And thus that relationship didn't last long.

My kinky co-worker is totally baffled by the idea that I won't brat or taunt to get a spanking - because how else am I going to get punished? [Uh, yeah... I don't get punished.]

Errr, is it just me, or is the idea of asking for a spanking because you want/need it such an abnormal idea?

Anyways

/end offtopic

 

[Evilzeus]

I'm just going to throw a question out there.

There was an old song by Holly Dunn called "Daddy's Hands". Allow me to quote a couple lines:
"Daddy's hands were soft and kind when I was cryin
Daddy's hands were hard as steel when I'd done wrong"

How much of an impact do you think a Dad spanking a child, has on the rest of their psych? If a dad spanks, or rather, gives a playful swat on a little girls hind end when they are loving and hugging, does that set her up for a positive spanking perception later in life? Does that set her up for a desire to be spanked by her boyfriend/husband/lover later in life and give her those same positive "feel good vibes" when he swats her in play?

Once you have answered that question... How much of an impact does spanking a child in discipline set that child up for the same positive vibes of being corrected via CP?

And just for fun... I've heard it said that parents only discipline children they love. Meaning if they don't discipline them, they don't care about them enough to correct them, which translates into they don't love them. Is CP just one of many ways to "show love"?

To copy from a friend *runs like fuck* (thanks Kybele)

 

[CutieMouse]

Oooo this makes me mad. Take a service submissive and fuck everything pleasant about her in one grand gesture.

I saw Midori give a really elegant nod to "how it's abusive to set up a service oriented pleaser person to fail intentionally" and I remember it clicked for me, it was like "yeah, someone just articulated something that always bugged me."

Thank you. I was so caught off guard I didn't know what to say, and never even made the connection between being service oriented and punishment. I was just like "Wooooaaaaahhhhh does not compute..."

*checking off one more communication tool in the dating tool chest*

 

[CutieMouse]

I'm just going to throw a question out there.

There was an old song by Holly Dunn called "Daddy's Hands". Allow me to quote a couple lines:
"Daddy's hands were soft and kind when I was cryin
Daddy's hands were hard as steel when I'd done wrong"

How much of an impact do you think a Dad spanking a child, has on the rest of their psych? If a dad spanks, or rather, gives a playful swat on a little girls hind end when they are loving and hugging, does that set her up for a positive spanking perception later in life? Does that set her up for a desire to be spanked by her boyfriend/husband/lover later in life and give her those same positive "feel good vibes" when he swats her in play?

Once you have answered that question... How much of an impact does spanking a child in discipline set that child up for the same positive vibes of being corrected via CP?

And just for fun... I've heard it said that parents only discipline children they love. Meaning if they don't discipline them, they don't care about them enough to correct them, which translates into they don't love them. Is CP just one of many ways to "show love"?

To copy from a friend *runs like fuck* (thanks Kybele)

Nope.

Mother was mentally ill, Dad did his damnedest to turn us into fully functioning adults ASAP to compensate for that/keep us safe.

Both my parents agreed any form of CP was to be delivered by them, and made sure every school I attended had a letter on file stating they did not have permission to use CP on me. I don't remember a spanking past the age of 7 or 8 - spanking wasn't so effective as to hold me in check; the insanity and inconsistency of the household held me in check.

But like Netz said - I got a pretty dammed interesting sexuality out of it. LOL

 

[intothewoods]

Given that I can count the numbers of times I've gone there on one hand and still have fingers left over, and this is over the course of 7-8 years, it's not particularly present in my dynamics either. But I'm not going to take a tool out of the toolbox just because.

And I can say the same thing about parenting. I can count the number of times I've spanked any of my four kids on one hand and still have fingers left over. Been a parent now for going on ten years.

The parallels go further as well, as I refuse to punish when I'm angry, regardless of whom it is that has screwed up. Anger leads to overreaction and lack of control.

Do you see yourself as something of a parental figure in your relationships though? For example, I don't think Mister Man would blame himself if I fucked something up. Ever. I mean, there may be his fuck ups and my fuck ups but I just feel the dynamic does not have any whiff of parent-kid in it.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm just going to throw a question out there.

There was an old song by Holly Dunn called "Daddy's Hands". Allow me to quote a couple lines:
"Daddy's hands were soft and kind when I was cryin
Daddy's hands were hard as steel when I'd done wrong"

How much of an impact do you think a Dad spanking a child, has on the rest of their psych? If a dad spanks, or rather, gives a playful swat on a little girls hind end when they are loving and hugging, does that set her up for a positive spanking perception later in life? Does that set her up for a desire to be spanked by her boyfriend/husband/lover later in life and give her those same positive "feel good vibes" when he swats her in play?

Once you have answered that question... How much of an impact does spanking a child in discipline set that child up for the same positive vibes of being corrected via CP?

And just for fun... I've heard it said that parents only discipline children they love. Meaning if they don't discipline them, they don't care about them enough to correct them, which translates into they don't love them. Is CP just one of many ways to "show love"?

To copy from a friend *runs like fuck* (thanks Kybele)

I think love properly motivates the discipline, whatever that discipline may be, as well as maturity, some selflessness, and a feeling of responsibility to raise good kids. If you don't love your kids and/or are immature, selfish, etc., you wouldn't necessarily not discipline your kids. It would just come from a different place and look very different.

 

[sallythescorpian]

I have four kids, and can say categorically if they didn't get an occasional spanking, we would live in anarchy. I really do not see anything wrong in giving a child a swat on the ass to correct their bad behavior, explaining at the same time what they did wrong. Nor do I think it is the only element of discipline, but rather used as a range of options appropriate to the situation and the child- verbal correction, time out, removal of privileges, grounding and spanking. But what I'm referring to is one or maybe two smacks with the palm of either my hand or my husbands hand. I don't agree with beating kids or hitting them with implements. It also depends on the kid. One of my sons would much rather get a slap than be sent to his room, so he hardly ever gets spanked. For others it is the only definitive way to end the episode.

Also I think that getting a smack from a loving parent is ok, but certainly not from anyone else. When I was in school (in Ireland), it was still legal for teachers to use corporal punishment. this was usually a ruler / meter stick, a leather, or a cane, and this was used on kids from 4 to 18. Some teachers clearly had a sadistic streak, and took complete advantage of kids they disliked, or whose parents were least likely to come in and complain. Some of the Christian Brothers or the Nuns took out (what, as an adult, I now identify as)their sexual frustrations on kids by beating them to the point of injury. So I'm glad our government finally banned corporal punishment in the educational system, sadly they didn't have anything else to replace it, and now the entire school discipline is based on calling in the parents, some of whom wont even bother to show up!!

 

[FurryFury]

There are many parents who abdicate from being functional parents. Not because they don't "love" thier kids but because they are too self absorbed, lazy and/or disfunctional to do the consistant work it takes.

These people may or may not spank, hit, slap, drag around, bang kids heads against each other, the floor the way, whatever. Usually there is a great deal of verbal abuse from such people. Often the make the kids feel responsible for them, the money situation and every damn thing else.

They may or may not provide limits but rarely enforce them. They often don't know where their kids are or what they are doing though they might believe they do. Usually they are just glad to be without the kids doing whatever shit it is (drugs, drama, WOW) they do.

These people don't really know how to love. Everything is all about them. They should be be allowed to reproduce.

Rarely do children feel loved by such people. However said people will say very fervently that their children are the most important things in thier lives. They might even say, they'd die for them. But they are simply deluded and full of shit, every kid of such a person can feel that. It usually takes years to put words to it and understand the emotions of it though.

I'm just going to throw a question out there.

There was an old song by Holly Dunn called "Daddy's Hands". Allow me to quote a couple lines:
"Daddy's hands were soft and kind when I was cryin
Daddy's hands were hard as steel when I'd done wrong"

How much of an impact do you think a Dad spanking a child, has on the rest of their psych? If a dad spanks, or rather, gives a playful swat on a little girls hind end when they are loving and hugging, does that set her up for a positive spanking perception later in life? Does that set her up for a desire to be spanked by her boyfriend/husband/lover later in life and give her those same positive "feel good vibes" when he swats her in play?

Once you have answered that question... How much of an impact does spanking a child in discipline set that child up for the same positive vibes of being corrected via CP?

And just for fun... I've heard it said that parents only discipline children they love. Meaning if they don't discipline them, they don't care about them enough to correct them, which translates into they don't love them. Is CP just one of many ways to "show love"?

To copy from a friend *runs like fuck* (thanks Kybele)

 

[JMohegan]

Do you see yourself as something of a parental figure in your relationships though? For example, I don't think Mister Man would blame himself if I fucked something up. Ever. I mean, there may be his fuck ups and my fuck ups but I just feel the dynamic does not have any whiff of parent-kid in it.

Are you sure about that part in bold?

If he leaves you a voicemail saying, "Pick up the dry cleaning and a copy of The Audacity to Win before dinner," and then becomes unavailable for clarifying questions on priorities because he's in meetings or whatever, and the line at the dry cleaner is really long and the first two stores you visit are sold out of Plouffe, and he gets home and you've failed to meet his standing orders to have dinner on the table at 7, whose fault is it that dinner's late?

 

[intothewoods]

Are you sure about that part in bold?

If he leaves you a voicemail saying, "Pick up the dry cleaning and a copy of The Audacity to Win before dinner," and then becomes unavailable for clarifying questions on priorities because he's in meetings or whatever, and the line at the dry cleaner is really long and the first two stores you visit are sold out of Plouffe, and he gets home and you've failed to meet his standing orders to have dinner on the table at 7, whose fault is it that dinner's late?

It's not that nothing is his fault, but if something is my fault then it's my own. I mean, if he's unavailable, I should be able to figure out what's more important - getting the book or getting dinner on the table. If I can't, then that's on me.

 

[Homburg]

Do you see yourself as something of a parental figure in your relationships though? For example, I don't think Mister Man would blame himself if I fucked something up. Ever. I mean, there may be his fuck ups and my fuck ups but I just feel the dynamic does not have any whiff of parent-kid in it.

I'm not sure that I can verbalise where that line is drawn. My socialisation with authority/power was based on a combination of military memes and animal handling. My parents treated me as much like an adult as they physically could, and I really don't get how a lot of people treat their kids as a result.

My father was definitely a sort of father figure to the troops under his command, and that tends to be the sort of leadership I provide in non-sexual situations. In this I mean a sort of basically benevolent leadership by example. My dad was fond of saying (paraphrased) "Be the best soldier you can be, and teach those under you to be the same way." Thus I prefer to communicate my desires on the sort of behaviour I want to see, and try to inspire those under me to desire to portray that behaviour on their own.

The animal handling side comes in with reading subtle physical cues, processing body language, handling myself in the proper manner, etc.

I don't see myself as being in a parent-child relationship with viv or MIS. I am higher on the responsibility chain, so it is leader-follower. But, as JM's example shows, if something goes wrong, and I could have prevented it, it is my fuck up, period. Yes, the person who screwed up will catch some hell, but I will recognise my own part in it as well. It may not be voiced, but it is there, and that is part of the understanding.

At the end of the day, if I am responsible for a person, such as in a D/s relationship or one of my children, I am responsible, period.

It's not that nothing is his fault, but if something is my fault then it's my own. I mean, if he's unavailable, I should be able to figure out what's more important - getting the book or getting dinner on the table. If I can't, then that's on me.

I disagree. In the example, you were given an order that conflicted with a standing directive, and no measures were taken to allow for that. Final responsibility for that screw-up lies with the one giving the orders.

 

[ownedsubgal]

My high school coach punished us when we messed up, with drills that were physically extremely unpleasant. My college coach never punished, but always inspired us to do better. My style as authority figure in personal relationships is modeled on the latter.

It's interesting to think about if, or whether, my style would be different, had I ever been exposed to an adult employing CP or physical discipline whom I also respected. But I never was. And in my mind, the contrast between those who inspire fear, and those who inspire respect, just couldn't be starker.

it's always been my belief that the greatest influences in life inspire both. it was quite a "huh? wha?" moment when i discovered that in the D/s world of all places, my viewpoint was considered an odd one.

i could not possibly imagine respecting a man as my Master, whom i did not fear. fear is not a dirty word, it is not something evil to be avoided at all costs. fear between two individuals, properly employed, can be intensely bonding, intimate, loving, and can stimulate and maintain healthy growth.

i too wonder, JMohegan, how your style or even your perspective on CP in relationships would be different had your high school coach achieved more of a balance between fear and nurturing.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Most maybe but not all. I love being beaten up but I would never lay a hand on a child. Though actuall I prefer being beaten if it's not described as punishment/discipline.

it is CP beatings specifically i am referring to, not anything done for kink, erotic or "just cuz" purposes.

 

[Cattypuss]

Ah - ok. Well in that case I do fall in line with your generalisation.

 

[Netzach]

I'm just going to throw a question out there.

There was an old song by Holly Dunn called "Daddy's Hands". Allow me to quote a couple lines:
"Daddy's hands were soft and kind when I was cryin
Daddy's hands were hard as steel when I'd done wrong"

How much of an impact do you think a Dad spanking a child, has on the rest of their psych? If a dad spanks, or rather, gives a playful swat on a little girls hind end when they are loving and hugging, does that set her up for a positive spanking perception later in life? Does that set her up for a desire to be spanked by her boyfriend/husband/lover later in life and give her those same positive "feel good vibes" when he swats her in play?

Once you have answered that question... How much of an impact does spanking a child in discipline set that child up for the same positive vibes of being corrected via CP?

And just for fun... I've heard it said that parents only discipline children they love. Meaning if they don't discipline them, they don't care about them enough to correct them, which translates into they don't love them. Is CP just one of many ways to "show love"?

To copy from a friend *runs like fuck* (thanks Kybele)

Father absent, Grandfather passive and I can't remember being spanked by him, though threatened a million times a day with "a potch in the tuches." I don't think it worked as a deterrent too much. I have no doubt that he adored me, though his way to express it was usually to tell me how great I was when I was four and "what happened?"

So all this sounds like someone's elaborate fantasy world to me.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Having said that - it's still a major goal in my world to avoid punishment. Period. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been punished (vs. disciplined), because I do everything possible to not fuck up. When talking to a potential Lover, I'm always like - um, yeah... and I don't get punished. The last guy I said that to tried to argue that punishing me for an invented infraction was part of mind fucking. [No that's a great way to piss me off and mess with my head in a bad way.] My kinky co-worker is totally baffled by the idea that I won't brat or taunt to get a spanking - because how else am I going to get punished? [Uh, yeah... I don't get punished.]

unfortunately i cannot say that i do not get punished, because i am not the perfect slave and never will be. and perhaps my Master is stricter than most, who knows. however of course we want to avoid punishment...avoid it like the bubonic plague! those who can make a game or kink out of "punishment" boggle my mind as well. my whole existence is spent focusing on being the best slave to him i can be, pleasing him however he wishes, remembering all that is expected of me, striving to always improve and to mind my place even on the bad days.

so while i very much need a relationship in which a punishment dynamic is in place, i very much desire to NEVER commit any offense worthy of punishment.

 

[Netzach]

I disagree. In the example, you were given an order that conflicted with a standing directive, and no measures were taken to allow for that. Final responsibility for that screw-up lies with the one giving the orders.

That's how I roll, too. I often fuck up prioritization, and so I often laugh off this kind of thing and eat whenever it shows up or feed myself. I really keep the anal retentive to the minute stuff when it's a "quiet night at home" as it were and we both know that I've been plotting.

If T were to tell me "well you should have been able to guess that I wanted dinner at seven more than I wanted you to have a new RED dog collar" I would be as pissed off as CM over "funishment". I AM NOT PSYCHIC. It drives me apeshit when I'm expected to be as a Domme and just as much on the bottom. If you have three things you want and you don't tell me them in order I'm not psychic - I'll do them in whatever capacity I can and I'll assume that this wil be met with approval. Finding out "oh no, you fucked that up" after the fact and based on incomplete information is just crazy-making.

I had probably a similar model of authority as JM in my life, and it's the kind of authority I gravitate to now - someone who simply awes me in some way. The person I really really really want to get an A from, who doesn't always give them out, but is very clear about his criteria for one. The person I want to be is really the person who gets my attention.

 

[Netzach]

it is CP beatings specifically i am referring to, not anything done for kink, erotic or "just cuz" purposes.

Thinking about this, in M/s as I do it, there is a fear dimension. It's the terror of separation and rejection, in this case. I mean I could physically fuck up H's world badly what with him willing to be tied down and all, but the "I could dismiss you" fact, which is stark and ever-present really kills resistance issues.

A maternal model it is NOT.

 

[Homburg]

I had probably a similar model of authority as JM in my life, and it's the kind of authority I gravitate to now - someone who simply awes me in some way. The person I really really really want to get an A from, who doesn't always give them out, but is very clear about his criteria for one. The person I want to be is really the person who gets my attention.

Honestly, that model was the way my dad ran things, and thus how I learned it. He would smoke a soldier for continued utter stupidity, but it was uncommon, and my dad was not one that yelled. He didn't respect the guys that did yell a lot either.

Still smoking the real knuckleheads (making them do a lot of push-ups, scissor-kicks, etc until they were beat-down exhausted and hurting) was a tool in the tool box. Probably unsurprising, but my dad considered resorting to that as a failure of leadership on his part.

Oddly enough, I hadn't thought of that until just now. Weird.

Anyway, what I want it to have them want and need to serve me. That's it. I take the same tack with the kids. I want them to want to do the right thing. If their motivations are straight, then I don't have to worry about it.

 

[JMohegan]

it's always been my belief that the greatest influences in life inspire both. it was quite a "huh? wha?" moment when i discovered that in the D/s world of all places, my viewpoint was considered an odd one.

i could not possibly imagine respecting a man as my Master, whom i did not fear. fear is not a dirty word, it is not something evil to be avoided at all costs. fear between two individuals, properly employed, can be intensely bonding, intimate, loving, and can stimulate and maintain healthy growth.

i too wonder, JMohegan, how your style or even your perspective on CP in relationships would be different had your high school coach achieved more of a balance between fear and nurturing.

Fear, to me, is an emotional response to impending danger or pain, resulting from that which I can not control.

I could never control the weather, or how slippery the field was, or whether the DT's on the other team had 50 pounds and 12 inches each on our guards, or a host of other factors. All I could do was bust my ass in workouts and try as hard as I could in the game. And when I did that, and got punished anyway, then the coach had inspired fear, sure - but also contempt. I have a very strong sense of what's fair and what's not, and violating that sense of what's fair is the quick path to lack of respect in my book.

I agree that fear of an authority figure provides an inspiration of sorts. If we were cold, muddy, exhausted, and down 20 points in high school, the most significant motivating factor in that moment was fear of point-for-point drills, so we'd put forth a grudging battle to the bitter end.

But if we were cold, muddy, exhausted, and down 20 points in college, we'd fight like hell for every yard till the final whistle. Because we revered the one we were fighting for, craved his respect, and knew he would honor the effort.

I have no frame of reference to make sense of that statement in bold. Fear of enemies or opponents? I get that. Fear of unreasonable authority figures, prone to physical discipline? I get that, too. But fear of an authority figure whose character one respects? To me, that just doesn't make sense. I'm not saying you're wrong to feel as you do; I am simply saying that I don't get it.

 

[JMohegan]

It's not that nothing is his fault, but if something is my fault then it's my own. I mean, if he's unavailable, I should be able to figure out what's more important - getting the book or getting dinner on the table. If I can't, then that's on me.

The point of the example was that there are (or will be) times when you actually can't figure that out. As Netzach says, even the most devoted s-type is not psychic.

 

[ataxia.girl]

My kinky co-worker is totally baffled by the idea that I won't brat or taunt to get a spanking - because how else am I going to get punished? [Uh, yeah... I don't get punished.]

i just find civil discourse all the time really dull. i also find being beat with a stick purely for the physical\erotic sensation of either partner kinda boring after awhile too. It becomes pretty much like sex after awhile, formulaic. Even if you are doing a different position every day its still just sex in a different position. You both know how it ends.

i like it when things are unpredictable for both parties. i like going to a place where i don't know how far i will escalate and i don't know how Daddy will react. He knows how i'm going to react if we are doing like a BDSM thing or something. i'm going to submit and try to please and do my best. It gets old after awhile.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm not sure that I can verbalise where that line is drawn. My socialisation with authority/power was based on a combination of military memes and animal handling. My parents treated me as much like an adult as they physically could, and I really don't get how a lot of people treat their kids as a result.

My father was definitely a sort of father figure to the troops under his command, and that tends to be the sort of leadership I provide in non-sexual situations. In this I mean a sort of basically benevolent leadership by example. My dad was fond of saying (paraphrased) "Be the best soldier you can be, and teach those under you to be the same way." Thus I prefer to communicate my desires on the sort of behaviour I want to see, and try to inspire those under me to desire to portray that behaviour on their own.

The animal handling side comes in with reading subtle physical cues, processing body language, handling myself in the proper manner, etc.

I don't see myself as being in a parent-child relationship with viv or MIS. I am higher on the responsibility chain, so it is leader-follower. But, as JM's example shows, if something goes wrong, and I could have prevented it, it is my fuck up, period. Yes, the person who screwed up will catch some hell, but I will recognise my own part in it as well. It may not be voiced, but it is there, and that is part of the understanding.

At the end of the day, if I am responsible for a person, such as in a D/s relationship or one of my children, I am responsible, period.



I disagree. In the example, you were given an order that conflicted with a standing directive, and no measures were taken to allow for that. Final responsibility for that screw-up lies with the one giving the orders.

The military example is interesting. Thanks. Are you the oldest? My parents were somewhat like that too. I wouldn't call it treating me like an adult, but definitely gave me the space to behave as maturely as I was.

It would be his fault too. I don't know - I think the fact that his orders are not really about mundane things is coloring my impression here. Maybe we are just too vanilla, especially lately. He does call the shots on big things. I dunno.

That's how I roll, too. I often fuck up prioritization, and so I often laugh off this kind of thing and eat whenever it shows up or feed myself. I really keep the anal retentive to the minute stuff when it's a "quiet night at home" as it were and we both know that I've been plotting.

If T were to tell me "well you should have been able to guess that I wanted dinner at seven more than I wanted you to have a new RED dog collar" I would be as pissed off as CM over "funishment". I AM NOT PSYCHIC. It drives me apeshit when I'm expected to be as a Domme and just as much on the bottom. If you have three things you want and you don't tell me them in order I'm not psychic - I'll do them in whatever capacity I can and I'll assume that this wil be met with approval. Finding out "oh no, you fucked that up" after the fact and based on incomplete information is just crazy-making.

I had probably a similar model of authority as JM in my life, and it's the kind of authority I gravitate to now - someone who simply awes me in some way. The person I really really really want to get an A from, who doesn't always give them out, but is very clear about his criteria for one. The person I want to be is really the person who gets my attention.

For the record, I would choose dinner and be right! But I'm cheating because he has a kindle and wouldn't have me pick up a book. But couldn't I just pick it up tomorrow? And I am also more likely to be upset about dinner being late than he is. He just wouldn't much care. Especially lately, we're just very vanilla. He still calls the shots on big things, but there haven't been too man tasks lately.

 

[intothewoods]

The point of the example was that there are (or will be) times when you actually can't figure that out. As Netzach says, even the most devoted s-type is not psychic.

That part would be his fault, but I just don't see the whole thing as his fault overall.