Do you believe spanking is an appropriate discipline for a child?

[Hoardingenergy]

Parents should raise their children. Not the state. A parent should be able to make the call on what reasonable discipline their child needs. How many people in prison would have lived different lives with a spanking than a time out? Kids need boundarys from their parents. Time out works great for a lot of kids, but not all. Pay me now or pay me later.

 

[Netzach]

How many people in prison would have lived different lives with a spanking than a time out?

I keep seeing this kind of statement from people in this thread. This really confuses me. Violence between parents and children puts a hell of a lot MORE people into "the system" than it ever kept out. Do I think a well timed swat = abuse - no, but SO MUCH abuse goes under the radar because we agree as a culture that non-tolerance is state interference, children are property, and "well I got slapped in the face, but I turned out OK"

 

[eastern sun]

I think awareness is the biggest thing, whether it's being bullied in class or followed on the streets, if you can show the person you recognize what they're doing without accelerating the conflict they will often be forced to reconsider their actions which presents the opportunity to escape or resolve.

This is so true. And has saved my ass.

And it reinforces my belief that most people, even the one who's about to do you harm, don't really want to do harm in the first place. It's just part of an accelerating pattern that was set in motion before you arrived.

 

[FurryFury]

I so agree about positive substantive reinforcement. Sadly and I'm guilty of this at times, most humans say little to nothing when things are going well. They nearly always say something when things are not going well though.

Oh my god, you must be my husband.

Because of the way the question was phrased, I wasn't thinking about all of the tools in my bag, you know? There are times when I take away a privilege, or give a time out. A time out can be seen as punishment, but it also provides a few moments of cool down for everyone, and I have absolutely told my kid that.

Overall, you want to be doing more positive reinforcement than negative. Although kids can be very challenging, in many ways, they're quite simple with simple needs (absent any major trauma, of course). In some ways, the toughest thing is to get out of your head and inside their brains in terms of the developmental stage that they're at.

 

[FurryFury]

I totally agree with you. I usually agree with you.

I keep seeing this kind of statement from people in this thread. This really confuses me. Violence between parents and children puts a hell of a lot MORE people into "the system" than it ever kept out. Do I think a well timed swat = abuse - no, but SO MUCH abuse goes under the radar because we agree as a culture that non-tolerance is state interference, children are property, and "well I got slapped in the face, but I turned out OK"

 

[FurryFury]

Wow, am I agreeable tonight or what. I agree with what you quoted from Marquis and your quote below.

This is so true. And has saved my ass.

And it reinforces my belief that most people, even the one who's about to do you harm, don't really want to do harm in the first place. It's just part of an accelerating pattern that was set in motion before you arrived.

 

[FurryFury]

I've honestly been appaled for years at the way animals are often treated by us. When they came out with "invisible fences" for dogs I was again disgusted. Which is all to say, that I would do none of those things to animals.

Fair enough. Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm on frayed nerves because of finals and a bit tired of certain people arguing with me about my own field.

And, you are correct there are non-physical punishments as well. But even at that, I know people who will use that "shock-value" punishment to get attention and curb a particularly bad behavior at it's start.

Speaking of which, I'd be interested to know how many people said they'd never spank their child would use an electric fence on a cow, horse, or dog? Or a shock or pinch collar? How about a choke chain?

I know animals are different from "human" animals, but I also know enough philosophy and psychology to know that violence to one often is a prelude to violence to the other. Even if it is passive-aggressive violence like those I mentioned in the above paragraph.

 

[Netzach]

This is so true. And has saved my ass.

And it reinforces my belief that most people, even the one who's about to do you harm, don't really want to do harm in the first place. It's just part of an accelerating pattern that was set in motion before you arrived.

Don't see but read "No Country for Old Men" if you haven't. Very thought provoking.

 

[caela]

I so agree about positive substantive reinforcement. Sadly and I'm guilty of this at times, most humans say little to nothing when things are going well. They nearly always say something when things are not going well though.

I agree with positive reinforcements and that we, in general, do not say nearly enough when children (and even other adults) do something well. I try to keep that in mind with my daughter and to praise her far more then I punish her. She loves it when we clap for her and give out hugs and snuggles and make a big production of it when she learns a new skill or word and such actions encourage her to repeat those actions until she has them down pat and makes her eager to learn the next thing to gain more such praise.

I do, however, use punishments as well for negative behaviour. I use everything from simply telling her "No", to time outs (this is pretty sparing since I have to put her in her crib for them because she's too young to know that a time-out means you stay on the couch without playing and I refuse to just forcibly hold her in place), to putting her down (when she wants to be held this one works brilliantly for awhile), to small slaps on her hands when she is playing with things she shouldn't be...and then moving those things if they're moveable.

She is getting to the point where she really understands "No" and is realizing that Mommy is serious when she says it and that it isn't just some sort of new game so the number of times I need to punish her vs. simply saying "No" is diminishing which I'm grateful for because I feel like an ogre when I punish her but she does need to learn what not to do as well as what to do.

 

[FurryFury]

Not long ago I skimmed through a book that postulates that praising kids in an attempt to help their self esteem actually back fires. I can't remember the title right now but I don't entirely buy that premise. I do think positive comments should be about how the person acts or what they do rather than how they looked.

 

[satindesire]

This depends utterly on the child in question. Not all children respond to all punishments in the same exact way.

I was a child that responded VERY well to spankings. Groundings and time outs were nothing to me, I could sit still and be quiet for hours at a time (I was not a high energy or hyperactive child at all) and even enjoy it.

I was spanked exactly THREE times. I remember each time very clearly, and you can bet I NEVER did those things again.

My parents were broken up about having to spank me, but it changed my behavior for the better.

I cannot say I WILL spank my daughter or not. It depends on what sort of punishment works for her.

Some children have a need to learn that their actions will have very negative consequences that they will not like. Spanking, sometimes, is not only appropriate, but the only thing a child will respond to.

Spanking does NOT equal abuse in my eyes, since my parents LOVE me, are incredibly supportive, encouraging, affectionate and kind to me and always have been. I was raised in an environment where my intelligence was respected, my words were considered and all the rules were explained to me. I was always treated fairly. When I broke the rules, a harsh and strict, unpleasant punishment was not only called for, but effective.

 

[twiztednwarped]

I'd totally have spanked you Satin.. wait.. that might derail the thread

In all seriousness spanking is a choice you have to make. As Satin said not all children respond well to it, some children will take to it, some will ignore it, some will see it as some terrible experience. I think the key to remember with spankings is context. If your going to spank your child, it has to be with a clear head, and clear emotion. Swat them on the rear firm enough for them to remember it, but not hard enough to really injure them.

Spanking becomes abuse when you do it out of anger, not of of a need to get your child to respect the volume of the situation. If you spank all the time for the smallest of infraction spanking will loose it's force. I can speak from experience on this one. My parents did not believe in restraint when it came to discipline. Belts, switches, burned with smokes. Not much was out of bounds. You' d be suprised what you can become used to if your exposed to it enough times. After the fifth time you've had a wooden spoon broke on your ass it stops being effective.

The important thing when giving discipline to your child is that when it's all said and done, your kid has to be able to digest the lesson they were taught, and still feel like they can trust you and be safe near you. If this is not accomplished then you didn't teach them that their behavior was wrong, you taught them that next time they have to hide their behavior instead of taking responsibility. that's when the real problems start.

 

[Franks_Angel]

Absolutely, but I 1. have kids. and 2. Know the difference between a spanking and a beating.

 

[hilltopper69]

hi

agree

 

[intothewoods]

I had the same feeling about spankings as discipline before I had a kid as I do now. Those with kids aren't suddenly elevated to child psychologists. It turns out that parenting isn't exactly rocket science, and loving your kids and doing your absolute best will go a very long way. But let's not pretend that we as parents have the monopoly on opinion here, because that's all this is. Opinion.

 

[FurryFury]

I don't understand spanking, particularly without anger. That sounds like bullshit to me every time I hear it and I've heard it a lot.

It makes no sense to me. In my world if you didn't lose control because of anger and/or fear you wouldn't be hitting.



If spanking can range from a good response to a life scaring one, to your kids, wtf would you take that chance? Why would you do so without emotions?

 

[Netzach]

I had the same feeling about spankings as discipline before I had a kid as I do now. Those with kids aren't suddenly elevated to child psychologists. It turns out that parenting isn't exactly rocket science, and loving your kids and doing your absolute best will go a very long way. But let's not pretend that we as parents have the monopoly on opinion here, because that's all this is. Opinion.

I've found that this weird thing happens sometimes when I talk to people with kids - I remember a lot of being a kid. Not photographically, and of course there are things I don't remember, but I remember how I felt a lot of the time and I understand where I must have been at or coming from a lot of the time during conflicts with my mom. It seems to me that when people *have* kids a lot of them instantly block out or forget TONS of these "being a kid" memories, maybe dismissing their value, maybe something biological happens, even that causes this - I mean there's a LOT of brain space that needs to be radically taken up by parenting and maybe some of this recognition is where it actually goes instead. I'm not sure.

But for every time someone's like "what the hell could you know you don't have any?" I find myself thinking "don't you REMEMBER this?"

 

[Netzach]

I don't understand spanking, particularly without anger. That sounds like bullshit to me every time I hear it and I've heard it a lot.

I don't either, but a large chunk of the reason I don't have kids is that I know myself. Cats don't get scarred when you call them "shit for brains."

 

[ownedsubgal]

I don't understand spanking, particularly without anger. That sounds like bullshit to me every time I hear it and I've heard it a lot.

It makes no sense to me. In my world if you didn't lose control because of anger and/or fear you wouldn't be hitting.



If spanking can range from a good response to a life scaring one, to your kids, wtf would you take that chance? Why would you do so without emotions?

spanking without anger does not = spanking without emotions. i was spanked as a kid (actually it was referred to as "whippin's"), and i must admit it was never done in anger. disappointment is the vibe i recall most strongly. also, there was always "the lecture" to go along with the physical aspect. there was a lecture before, brief whippin', then a lecture afterward.

all very civil and healthy in itself, except for the fact that my parents disagreed vehemently on how to punish me therefore there were always conflicting messages. my mom was a spanker, my Dad was 100% opposed to any laying of hands on a child due to his physically abusive upbringing. so i would often try to manipulate one parent against the other, and get out of any punishment whatsoever.

 

[intothewoods]

I've found that this weird thing happens sometimes when I talk to people with kids - I remember a lot of being a kid. Not photographically, and of course there are things I don't remember, but I remember how I felt a lot of the time and I understand where I must have been at or coming from a lot of the time during conflicts with my mom. It seems to me that when people *have* kids a lot of them instantly block out or forget TONS of these "being a kid" memories, maybe dismissing their value, maybe something biological happens, even that causes this - I mean there's a LOT of brain space that needs to be radically taken up by parenting and maybe some of this recognition is where it actually goes instead. I'm not sure.

But for every time someone's like "what the hell could you know you don't have any?" I find myself thinking "don't you REMEMBER this?"

Hmm, I must admit that I see a lot of the other side - parents projecting their own experience onto their kids. When I was a kid, I felt this way, or reacted this way, therefore my kid must be doing the same. But everyone is a unique individual. That's not to say that your experiences a kid vis-a-vis spanking aren't valid, I just notice overall that a lot of parents project their own stuff onto kids, and it's more about them than it is about what is best for their kids. I think I had to deal with that myself. I essentially modeled my own parenting philosophy after my parents and then thought, ok, done! For the most part, that has worked just fine. But there are times when things that were a good fit for me are not a good fit for my kid.

 

[Homburg]

I don't understand spanking, particularly without anger. That sounds like bullshit to me every time I hear it and I've heard it a lot.

It makes no sense to me. In my world if you didn't lose control because of anger and/or fear you wouldn't be hitting.



If spanking can range from a good response to a life scaring one, to your kids, wtf would you take that chance? Why would you do so without emotions?

Wait, what board are we on again? The whole premise of this board revolves around doing things like spanking sans anger. Spanking is done recreationally. Yes, that's dealing with adults, and you don't beat your kids as a hobby, but why is there some weird automatic connection between spanking and anger when a kid is involved especially on this board? Aren't we sufficiently competent enough to know our own emotional states?

This is the sort of argument used all the time to connect BDSM as a whole to abuse.

As OSG mentioned, the few times I've spanked my kids, disappointment was the order of the day. Anger happened earlier when they were caught in the lie (the only reason they get spanked by the way), but by the time the spanking occurred (shortly after) I was dead calm and just disappointed as hell.

Making assumptions like this is fairly insulting. I realise that you are anti-spanking, but saying that it is always fear or anger? Too far.

 

[FurryFury]

Apples and oranges, spanking kids and spanking adults, spanking for "discipline" and spanking for fun.

Wait, what board are we on again? The whole premise of this board revolves around doing things like spanking sans anger. Spanking is done recreationally. Yes, that's dealing with adults, and you don't beat your kids as a hobby, but why is there some weird automatic connection between spanking and anger when a kid is involved especially on this board? Aren't we sufficiently competent enough to know our own emotional states?

This is the sort of argument used all the time to connect BDSM as a whole to abuse.

As OSG mentioned, the few times I've spanked my kids, disappointment was the order of the day. Anger happened earlier when they were caught in the lie (the only reason they get spanked by the way), but by the time the spanking occurred (shortly after) I was dead calm and just disappointed as hell.

Making assumptions like this is fairly insulting. I realise that you are anti-spanking, but saying that it is always fear or anger? Too far.

 

[jadefirefly]

Apples and oranges, spanking kids and spanking adults, spanking for "discipline" and spanking for fun.

Not necessarily.

Mind you, a parent that's incapable of spanking without anger probably should not be doing so. It proves that -they- aren't responsible enough to remain in control of themselves.

But a parent very much can spank a child without being angry. Sad, disappointed, even hurt, these are all acceptable. But anger does not -need- to be a part of it. Don't make the mistake of assuming that just because one person's body is contacting another person's body with force, there's anger involved.

The age difference / relationship difference doesn't change the personal responsibility behind the act.

 

[FurryFury]

As I said, "In my world" that's how it went and still goes. Others experiences may vary though.

 

[satindesire]

Wait, what board are we on again? The whole premise of this board revolves around doing things like spanking sans anger. Spanking is done recreationally. Yes, that's dealing with adults, and you don't beat your kids as a hobby, but why is there some weird automatic connection between spanking and anger when a kid is involved especially on this board? Aren't we sufficiently competent enough to know our own emotional states?

This is the sort of argument used all the time to connect BDSM as a whole to abuse.

As OSG mentioned, the few times I've spanked my kids, disappointment was the order of the day. Anger happened earlier when they were caught in the lie (the only reason they get spanked by the way), but by the time the spanking occurred (shortly after) I was dead calm and just disappointed as hell.

Making assumptions like this is fairly insulting. I realise that you are anti-spanking, but saying that it is always fear or anger? Too far.

Not necessarily.

Mind you, a parent that's incapable of spanking without anger probably should not be doing so. It proves that -they- aren't responsible enough to remain in control of themselves.

But a parent very much can spank a child without being angry. Sad, disappointed, even hurt, these are all acceptable. But anger does not -need- to be a part of it. Don't make the mistake of assuming that just because one person's body is contacting another person's body with force, there's anger involved.

The age difference / relationship difference doesn't change the personal responsibility behind the act.

QFT...