Do you believe spanking is an appropriate discipline for a child?

[Evilzeus]

I find it interesting that everyone who is here, most likely believes in the bdsm lifestyle. In this lifestyle many of our PYL/pyl friends believe in and understand the physiological implications of physical pain. We understand the mental cleansing a sub will often undergo as a result of a "beating". Doesn't it also hold true that our small "subs" (children) will also experience the same mental cleansing an adult sub does? (I still remember all the "cleansings" I received all those years ago as a youngin)

I know there are some among us that believe in Domestic Discipline. I know that many wives in that lifestyle will talk about how after a "deserved" spanking or even a maintenance spanking, everything seems right in the world. The "Boss" has been clearly defined and the "sub" has been clearly defined.

Aside from that, it doesn't matter what the punishment is, the discipline is only as effective as the one who disciplines. The one who disciplines is often the weakest link in the equation, because if they can't consistently maintain order, ANY discipline is pointless.

There is a phrase I love, "when the inmates run the institution". It doesn't matter if it's a prison, a school, or a household, if the authority is consistently capitulating, then the inmates are running the institution.

For the record, I do not believe in disciplining in anger.

(Dang, for a guy who doesn't want to talk for fear of showing his ignorance, he sure talks a lot!)

 

[intothewoods]

Things change dramatically when you have 3 or 4 of them all going in different directions. There honestly just isn't always time to have a little chat with each one of them. Sometimes there is and sometimes there isn't.

Quantity seriously matters.

Right now i have a 2 and a 3 year old who are only 14 months apart and a 6 year old who is often just not on this planet at all not that the 8 year old is either. We're sort of like a house full of absent minded professors and artists except the miniature versions have ridiculous amounts of energy.

We don't spank often but it does happen on occasion. There are those days when we have simply had enough of all the shenanigans. Don't even get me started on the politics and the tattling and the we were rough housing but now i'm hurt so now i really wasn't rough housing and i never said it was okay for her\him to do that. Yeah... right.

I missed this before. I have no interest in doing the whole two or more under two thing. I'll give you that. But I know plenty of parents with kids plural who get their point across without spanking. It doesn't take long to say No. I get that people choose to spank, but it is a choice and not something you have to do.

 

[Homburg]

Things change dramatically when you have 3 or 4 of them all going in different directions.

Ain't that the truth? This morning was particularly trying, as our kids were home from school, but the two that viv babysits three days a week were here also. And then a friend brought his two over.

Utter madhouse.

And I'm also gonna chime in and say that the rock system is brilliant.

 

[radepor]

Spanking is a choice, but sometimes you do have to

Somewhere in the last 30-40 years, spanking went somewhat out of fashion.

Is it a coincidence that somewhere in the last 30-40 years our society has changed in a way I'd characterize as alarming? [Let's steal from Walmart; Let's Madoff with everyone's life savings; Let's torture people like the rest of the world; Let's invade Iraq and make the Middle East safe for ...]

Would a simple spanking stop any of this? Maybe, maybe not, but couldn't hurt.

I missed this before. I have no interest in doing the whole two or more under two thing. I'll give you that. But I know plenty of parents with kids plural who get their point across without spanking. It doesn't take long to say No. I get that people choose to spank, but it is a choice and not something you have to do.



Sometimes they just won't go to bed until they've had their beatings.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Netzach]

Somewhere in the last 30-40 years, spanking went somewhat out of fashion.

Is it a coincidence that somewhere in the last 30-40 years our society has changed in a way I'd characterize as alarming? [Let's steal from Walmart; Let's Madoff with everyone's life savings; Let's torture people like the rest of the world; Let's invade Iraq and make the Middle East safe for ...]

Would a simple spanking stop any of this? Maybe, maybe not, but couldn't hurt.

[/QUOTE]

I think it all went to the dogs because Kennedy killed the Hat.

 

[FurryFury]

Children are not our small subs. They did not consent. Nor can they legally do so to being any such thing. So I'd have to say, no it doesn't hold true that what you consensually experience as an adult will have the same sort of benefits or even mind set to a child. Treating a child like a small adult can lead to some really scary shit.

I find it interesting that everyone who is here, most likely believes in the bdsm lifestyle. In this lifestyle many of our PYL/pyl friends believe in and understand the physiological implications of physical pain. We understand the mental cleansing a sub will often undergo as a result of a "beating". Doesn't it also hold true that our small "subs" (children) will also experience the same mental cleansing an adult sub does? (I still remember all the "cleansings" I received all those years ago as a youngin)

I know there are some among us that believe in Domestic Discipline. I know that many wives in that lifestyle will talk about how after a "deserved" spanking or even a maintenance spanking, everything seems right in the world. The "Boss" has been clearly defined and the "sub" has been clearly defined.

Aside from that, it doesn't matter what the punishment is, the discipline is only as effective as the one who disciplines. The one who disciplines is often the weakest link in the equation, because if they can't consistently maintain order, ANY discipline is pointless.

There is a phrase I love, "when the inmates run the institution". It doesn't matter if it's a prison, a school, or a household, if the authority is consistently capitulating, then the inmates are running the institution.

For the record, I do not believe in disciplining in anger.

(Dang, for a guy who doesn't want to talk for fear of showing his ignorance, he sure talks a lot!)

 

[satindesire]

Here's the thing. I know it sounds obvious, but brain development in children doesn't go from zero to fully formed adult overnight. They do learn to communicate and reason in very important ways from the beginning, even if they can't articulate it. Seeing the manifestations of maturity and brain development in my kid has been so rewarding. Kids' capacity to learn and communicate is absolutely amazing. An excellent, excellent science-based book is The Emotional Life of a Toddler. There's a lot going on in those little brains!

Having said that, I'm not recommending lengthy explanations to very young children. An infant isn't going to understand no. They're not going to understand spanking either. But toddlers do learn no. And danger. Keep it short and simple, and they'll get it. Even if they don't have the impulse control from the beginning, they do understand it. And that is an important part of the process - learning impulse control even when it's not fully developed. For the most part, you need to keep a toddler's environment safe. They can't be expected to resist 800 things in front of them. They can learn to resist one or two things. And then it improves. A three year old can understand a heck of a lot more than a 15 month old, and has much better impulse control. But I can't emphasize enough how important the process is, regardless of how challenging it is to parents and caregivers. Kids need to learn from logical consequences (and that doesn't mean punishment of any kind).

I'll say it again. I have never spanked, and my kid has never run into the street. First of all, we always hold hands walking across the street, so that has set the stage. To the extent I need to lay down the law about something, I say it and have always said it clearly and plainly. I'm not a snivveling, awww honey, pwease don't do this, mom. I'm not afraid to be strict.

As I said many times before, not all children react to spanking. It depends on the child, in all ways. If my child does not react to punishment that isn't spanking, then I will try spanking. If spanking doesn't work, then I won't spank. It's as simple as that.

I am fully aware of the fact that children DO sometimes understand 'no', but they don't always respond to it. That's why I said "Sometimes children tune you out." I will not tolerate that kind of behavior at all. If it takes a swat on the butt to get them to stop doing whatever, then that's what I'll do.

I will teach my child in any way that I can get them to respond to. I refuse to allow my children to grow up and be a pregnant teen on Jerry Springer because I was too afraid to spank them and that's all that would get them to pay attention to the rules.

 

[intothewoods]

Somewhere in the last 30-40 years, spanking went somewhat out of fashion.

Is it a coincidence that somewhere in the last 30-40 years our society has changed in a way I'd characterize as alarming? [Let's steal from Walmart; Let's Madoff with everyone's life savings; Let's torture people like the rest of the world; Let's invade Iraq and make the Middle East safe for ...]

Would a simple spanking stop any of this? Maybe, maybe not, but couldn't hurt.

[/QUOTE]

For the record, I didn't say sometimes they won't go to bed until they've had their beatings!

Anyway, correlation does not equal causation.

As I said many times before, not all children react to spanking. It depends on the child, in all ways. If my child does not react to punishment that isn't spanking, then I will try spanking. If spanking doesn't work, then I won't spank. It's as simple as that.

I am fully aware of the fact that children DO sometimes understand 'no', but they don't always respond to it. That's why I said "Sometimes children tune you out." I will not tolerate that kind of behavior at all. If it takes a swat on the butt to get them to stop doing whatever, then that's what I'll do.

I will teach my child in any way that I can get them to respond to. I refuse to allow my children to grow up and be a pregnant teen on Jerry Springer because I was too afraid to spank them and that's all that would get them to pay attention to the rules.

Satin - Ok, I'm trying to make a point about brain development, above and beyond whether you spank or not. Because a child does not respond to you does not always mean they are tuning you out. At ten? Sure, of course. At four? No.

 

[satindesire]

Satin - Ok, I'm trying to make a point about brain development, above and beyond whether you spank or not. Because a child does not respond to you does not always mean they are tuning you out. At ten? Sure, of course. At four? No.

Let me re-quote, since you must not have read my entire passage.

If I'm upset with my husband because he's done something wrong, I can sit him down and talk to him about it. He can think about what I'm saying and talk with me back. A child (under a certain age) is completely incapable of doing this.

There. I hope I've made myself more clear this time.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I missed this before. I have no interest in doing the whole two or more under two thing. I'll give you that. But I know plenty of parents with kids plural who get their point across without spanking. It doesn't take long to say No. I get that people choose to spank, but it is a choice and not something you have to do.

i never said we HAD to do it. We definitely discussed it and weighed the pros and cons and for our family the occasional spanking works and i don't think my kids are afraid of us or seem at all damaged by it. Maybe they are. i'm sure when they grow up to be adults they will happily tell us all the ways we failed them the same way i have told my parents. That's sort of part of the package of being a parent as well.

Like i have said before we do what works for the particular child. There is no one size fits all philosophy when it comes to parenting. All children are different and all are individuals.

Its not even that we spank, we reserve the right to if we feel it warranted and it seldom is but on occasion it serves as a sort of reboot. Do it, done, over, move on. There's nothing like a group spanking when all four of them get started pushing the envelope of acceptable behavior at the dinner table. At least they are all in it together.

i didn't exactly plan to have 2 fourteen months apart either but here i am.

 

[intothewoods]

Let me re-quote, since you must not have read my entire passage.




There. I hope I've made myself more clear this time.

You said - a child under a certain is incapable of doing "this" - i.e., "think about" what you are saying and "talk with you back."

I am disagreeing that a child is incapable of thinking about what you are saying, regardless of whether they can answer you back. A child of any age is absolutely thinking about you are saying, it's just different than what a grown adult thinks. Even an infant recognizes voices, and will recognize words before he or she can speak. And at any rate, a child will demonstrate an ability to control impulses well before he can empathize or understand why a rule is in place.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I have no doubt that some parents are capable of spanking in an appropriately dispassionate way. I would be genuinely curious to know what percentage of parents who spank have that capability and self-discipline.

You should see spankings at my house. Everyone is out of control at dinner. Husband finally says "that's it, everyone is getting a spanking!" He sits down on the hearth in the dining room and administers a few short whacks over the knee with his hand. By the end they are all rubbing their butts a bit but laughing and then they line up for more to which my husband and i just shake our heads while he gives them all another one.

We don't spank that hard, its more just a quick wake up call and a way to redirect attention and basically get everyone to stop hitting their forks on their glasses or kicking each other under the table or making farting noises with their armpits.

After its over everyone goes back to the table smiling. Its not that they want to be spanked. Its hard enough they don't really want it to happen but they also aren't afraid of it and they know the second or third one is just going to be fun.

There are those end of the rope times however when we will send someone to their room to go wait for a spanking. By the time its delivered we aren't angry and there is always a lecture and a hug and then it is OVER and they know its over. i've seen parents that whack their kids all the time at the least provocation and that isn't what we do by any stretch of the imagination. We do time out, we talk, we ask them what THEY think the solution to the problem should be.

On the other hand we can't exactly send 4 kids to time out simultaneously at dinner because they would freaking still be carrying on IN TIME OUT! When they are wound up and feeding off of each other like that we will do spankings because in our house that is what works for us. It keeps the peace, it keeps things simple, and it lets us quickly go back to normal without some long drawn out political challenge ahead of us. i'm not interested in listening to a child who is hungry because they've been sent to bed without dinner. i'm not interested in policing giggling children in time out to try to keep them from continuing to engage with one another.

We let our kids rough house and wrestle. i've been around lots of parents who don't. Maybe if we didn't we wouldn't have some of the problems we do but we have decided that is important for their development. We let them express themselves even if it is making farting noises with their armpits. my eldest is really into sound effects and although it can be a little grating he's actually pretty good at them and if i can't think of a legitimate reason why a kid shouldn't do something then i tend to let them.

i have loud and rowdy kids and my house can be pretty chaotic but my kids are all also good friends with each other and have a ton of fun. Sometimes its a trade off. It can be difficult teaching them exactly when its okay to be loud and rowdy and when it isn't.

i just don't mind getting physical with my kids. i think western society's fear of physical contact in general has gotten to the point of being pretty pathological and unhealthy. We hug a lot, kiss a lot, wrestle, tickle, and occasionally spank.

They seem pretty healthy to me.

 

[satindesire]

You said - a child under a certain is incapable of doing "this" - i.e., "think about" what you are saying and "talk with you back."

I am disagreeing that a child is incapable of thinking about what you are saying, regardless of whether they can answer you back. A child of any age is absolutely thinking about you are saying, it's just different than what a grown adult thinks. Even an infant recognizes voices, and will recognize words before he or she can speak. And at any rate, a child will demonstrate an ability to control impulses well before he can empathize or understand why a rule is in place.

I think you're seriously splitting hairs to make a point here. I am talking about the fact that some children, when they are very young, are simply incapable of understanding explanations and lengthy discussions about rules. A simple swat on the heinie gets the point across and that they DO understand. A one year old isn't going to get that she shouldn't put that sharp object in her mouth because it could cut her and hurt her. A smack on the hand and a sharp "NO!" is far more suitable than a lecture.

I am fully aware that you disagree with me, but going after the minutia of my opinion is a little extreme, don't you think?

i just don't mind getting physical with my kids. i think western society's fear of physical contact in general has gotten to the point of being pretty pathological and unhealthy. We hug a lot, kiss a lot, wrestle, tickle, and occasionally spank.

They seem pretty healthy to me.

I don't know your kids, but I'm sure you're a fantastic mom. It sounds like you have discipline worked out just fine.

 

[Netzach]

I think you're seriously splitting hairs to make a point here. I am talking about the fact that some children, when they are very young, are simply incapable of understanding explanations and lengthy discussions about rules. A simple swat on the heinie gets the point across and that they DO understand. A one year old isn't going to get that she shouldn't put that sharp object in her mouth because it could cut her and hurt her. A smack on the hand and a sharp "NO!" is far more suitable than a lecture.

I am fully aware that you disagree with me, but going after the minutia of my opinion is a little extreme, don't you think?



I don't know your kids, but I'm sure you're a fantastic mom. It sounds like you have discipline worked out just fine.

I think you're seriously creating a strawman every time you're saying the alternate to a swat is a "lecture." There's nothing nit picking about itw talking about why she's doing what she's doing, any more than ataxia's description has merits or doesn't.

Toddlers understand a lot more than *just* swats. They're basically giant receptors. They're probably much more clued in to your emotions, voice, and expression than they are the swat on a diapered behind.

If you choose CP, great, whatever. If you don't choose CP it's not because you're a big fat idiot who can't relate to children and their processes.

I was the only one in my immediate circle to be hit regularly. I knew a couple of people who had spankings of the sort you describe and what ataxia girl describes. I had friends who didn't get hit. No one wound up on Springer. I'd say there was no huge net gulf in fuckupedness between the organized spankings versus no CP kids. I'm the person who probably has the least to do with her family.

If you can keep a lid on it and you have the behavior modeled in your own past for you, Mazel T'ov. But a lot of us don't have that and don't care to get close to the dogs that bit us.

 

[caela]

I don't understand spanking, particularly without anger. That sounds like bullshit to me every time I hear it and I've heard it a lot.

It makes no sense to me. In my world if you didn't lose control because of anger and/or fear you wouldn't be hitting.



If spanking can range from a good response to a life scaring one, to your kids, wtf would you take that chance? Why would you do so without emotions?

Spanking can be done without anger. My grandfather used to give his kids (my step-dad and his siblings), and then us, a choice in punishments when we misbehaved. You could get X number of swats with the belt (how many depended on what you'd done) or you could be grounded for X number of days, be sent to bed w/out dinner etc, again depending on what you had done. He took the time to explain why what you had done was wrong and that the punishment was to reinforce that such an action was wrong and wouldn't be tolerated but how you were punished was up to you.

If you took the swats it was a limited number and you were outside playing again as soon as the sting went away. If you chose something else you were usually stuck in a bedroom with no toys, books, tv, computer etc bored out of your mind. According to my aunt they almost always chose the spanking and I did too the few times I got into trouble out there.

Of course this was once we were a bit older and able to understand the explanation and make the choice. Wouldn't work so well on little kids.

 

[intothewoods]

I think you're seriously splitting hairs to make a point here. I am talking about the fact that some children, when they are very young, are simply incapable of understanding explanations and lengthy discussions about rules. A simple swat on the heinie gets the point across and that they DO understand. A one year old isn't going to get that she shouldn't put that sharp object in her mouth because it could cut her and hurt her. A smack on the hand and a sharp "NO!" is far more suitable than a lecture.

I am fully aware that you disagree with me, but going after the minutia of my opinion is a little extreme, don't you think?



I don't know your kids, but I'm sure you're a fantastic mom. It sounds like you have discipline worked out just fine.

I think it's an important point, truly. I'm not talking about lectures, just saying No, or otherwise communicating the point directly without smacking.

 

[ataxia.girl]

If you can keep a lid on it and you have the behavior modeled in your own past for you, Mazel T'ov. But a lot of us don't have that and don't care to get close to the dogs that bit us.

Yeah i totally get this. There are a few things i simply will not do because they were done to me and i remember how that felt.

Hopefully my kids won't have too many of those but i'm sure there will be one or a few. Childhood is hard and our parents often make it even harder.

 

[caela]

I think it's an important point, truly. I'm not talking about lectures, just saying No, or otherwise communicating the point directly without smacking.

With some kids just saying a sharp "No" doesn't work. Example, my daughter P LOVES buttons on electronics. One of her favorite things to do is to, repeatedly, turn the TV on and off. Not only is this annoying as hell but it's frustrating if someone is actually trying to watch something. Sometimes a simple "No" works. Sometimes giving her another toy to play or distracting her with a book works too. Sometimes she just grins and runs back to the TV for more. At those times, when she is deliberately disregarding the "No" she gets one quick smack across her fingers. It's never hard enough to actually hurt but is hard enough to sting and get her attention. She then gets a hug and pulled onto Mommy's lap for snuggles and another explanation of why she shouldn't be pushing the TV buttons.

With some kids a simple "No" is almost devastating.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

My children have had swatted bums and smacked hands. I tried to correct my children the same way my mum corrected me~with a talk, a non-physical punishment, or whatever...only using spanking as a final measure if nothing else seems to have worked. (I couldn't compare my corrections from my step father...he was a physically abusive drunken asshole who should have been shot ages ago)

I was abused and it takes ALOT of self control to not allow myself to respond inappropriately. The older my children have gotten the less I have had to resort to the dreaded ass whipping and the happier I am about it. Does that mean that I am ashamed of having had to use corporal punishment with my kids? Hell no. I worked really hard to overcome my past and to learn how to dole out a butt whipping without freaking.

My youngest has never needed a butt whipping, my eldest hasn't required one in years...(I guess the last time, he was 8 or 9) My middle child was the only one who required more serious correction. Mostly because she chose not to listen the first two or three times she got in trouble for an infraction.

Even so, my kids were never abused and are pretty awesome, if I do say so myself. I believe bum whippings have their place in some households. Maybe not in yours, but they used to be required in mine.

 

[dashd]

There are times that spanking aimed at the proper part of the child's anatomy, meaning the "seat of the matter" may be appropriate if properly administered, and done not out of anger, and saved only for certain types of misbehavior. As a father of 5, I have had to administer such corrective action, but interestingly,my daughter and second son escaped such punishment. A stern word directed at either of them sent them crying and running to her room. The other three would test you, and if appropriately warned that such misbehavior would warrant a spanking if continued, and when the behavior continued the punishment naturally ensued. I would never say that spanking is always appropriate for every child, on the contrary it may be necessary at times for some children.

 

[intothewoods]

With some kids just saying a sharp "No" doesn't work. Example, my daughter P LOVES buttons on electronics. One of her favorite things to do is to, repeatedly, turn the TV on and off. Not only is this annoying as hell but it's frustrating if someone is actually trying to watch something. Sometimes a simple "No" works. Sometimes giving her another toy to play or distracting her with a book works too. Sometimes she just grins and runs back to the TV for more. At those times, when she is deliberately disregarding the "No" she gets one quick smack across her fingers. It's never hard enough to actually hurt but is hard enough to sting and get her attention. She then gets a hug and pulled onto Mommy's lap for snuggles and another explanation of why she shouldn't be pushing the TV buttons.

With some kids a simple "No" is almost devastating.

If a "no" is devastating (which seems off to me), that's all the more reason they should hear it. Kids need to learn that sometimes the answer is no.

As I have said before, I know of one parent who has used a quick hand smack with success. I believe it's possible. I have seen no reason to spank, and while I think it's possible for it to be an appropriate tool, I do not believe it is ever necessary or required.

As I mentioned before, my kid was also quite active. I scheduled activities accordingly. I stayed one step ahead of him so he always had something to do and have his hands in. I also found time outs to be quite effective for 15 month olds. To each his own.

 

[FurryFury]

I've taken licks rather than consequences too when given the choice. That should be a clue that licks aren't as effective right there.

Spanking can be done without anger. My grandfather used to give his kids (my step-dad and his siblings), and then us, a choice in punishments when we misbehaved. You could get X number of swats with the belt (how many depended on what you'd done) or you could be grounded for X number of days, be sent to bed w/out dinner etc, again depending on what you had done. He took the time to explain why what you had done was wrong and that the punishment was to reinforce that such an action was wrong and wouldn't be tolerated but how you were punished was up to you.

If you took the swats it was a limited number and you were outside playing again as soon as the sting went away. If you chose something else you were usually stuck in a bedroom with no toys, books, tv, computer etc bored out of your mind. According to my aunt they almost always chose the spanking and I did too the few times I got into trouble out there.

Of course this was once we were a bit older and able to understand the explanation and make the choice. Wouldn't work so well on little kids.

 

[CutieMouse]

I think you're seriously splitting hairs to make a point here. I am talking about the fact that some children, when they are very young, are simply incapable of understanding explanations and lengthy discussions about rules. A simple swat on the heinie gets the point across and that they DO understand. A one year old isn't going to get that she shouldn't put that sharp object in her mouth because it could cut her and hurt her. A smack on the hand and a sharp "NO!" is far more suitable than a lecture.

Late to things here, and don't really want to stir up a ginormous fight or anything... but seriously?

A child that young (under 3, for example) understands they've been hit. Period. By someone who (hopefully) loves and snuggles and kisses them. [which, lets be honest - can be somewhat confusing] There is no correlation of "I did X therefore...", because developmentally their brains are not complex enough to process the information [spanking] that directly yet.

Pushing buttons, or reaching for electrical outlets, or pushing limits is a game called learning. Will a flick on the hand damage a child, and lead to massive therapy later in life? Probably not. Will it inhibit their natural curiosity/willingness to get in "trouble" in order to learn something new (necessary in the learning process)? Pretty much. My primary job as a mother was to create a safe enough environment for them to learn [especially when very young].

 

[ownedsubgal]

my Dad was physically abused by his parents (most especially his father) as a child. and by "abused" i mean extreme physical tortures and beatings either ridiculously overboard for a particular infraction, or at times for no reason at all. therefore he made a vow that when he had kids of his own, he would NEVER hit them, for any reason. the psychological and emotional damage done to him by his own abusive childhood showed him how NOT to be a parent.

so, when i would screw up (say get a "D" on a test), he would sit me down, talk to me lovingly, would make me promise to do better next time. then there would be hugs and kisses, and it would be done. that method was not at ALL effective for me. i knew that no matter what i did or didn't do, he wouldn't get too upset and there would be no really terrible consequences. therefore, zero motivation to not get a "D" on the next math test.

some kids just need the whacks on the bum, for emphasis. *shrug*

 

[intothewoods]

my Dad was physically abused by his parents (most especially his father) as a child. and by "abused" i mean extreme physical tortures and beatings either ridiculously overboard for a particular infraction, or at times for no reason at all. therefore he made a vow that when he had kids of his own, he would NEVER hit them, for any reason. the psychological and emotional damage done to him by his own abusive childhood showed him how NOT to be a parent.

so, when i would screw up (say get a "D" on a test), he would sit me down, talk to me lovingly, would make me promise to do better next time. then there would be hugs and kisses, and it would be done. that method was not at ALL effective for me. i knew that no matter what i did or didn't do, he wouldn't get too upset and there would be no really terrible consequences. therefore, zero motivation to not get a "D" on the next math test.

some kids just need the whacks on the bum, for emphasis. *shrug*

Kids need consequences. The alternative to a whack on the bum is not the absence of consequences.