Do you ever say 'No'?

[Miss Trickery]

Somewhat of a criterion here. A typical idiosyncratic devlopement of pseudo-acumen, engrossing, yet, perplexing.

 

[marieR19]

We have only done a few very informal "scenes" sexually, but otherwise her dominate-ness is very random... just kind of whenever the mood hits us. And of course, sometimes it doesn't hit us at the same time. I'm very sensitive, sometimes with things I didn't even realize I would be sensitive about... One time she told me to brush her hair and I got all bent outta shape 'cause I was already upset about other stuff that didn't have anything to do with her and I wanted to be left alone, but until that very moment I didn't realize how upset I was. So yeah, there are times when I tell her that I don't want to or can't do certain things.

Heather

 

[Shy_Joanna]

I said 'no' once...he grabbed me by the hair, held me down by my throat and did it anyway

 

[timberwolf05]

i wouldn't trust a sub who could tell me no without breaking a sweat.
-----------------------

in MY mind, in MY heart,.."I" can tell anyone anywhere no w/o worry. i am probably one of the biggest cases of alpha sub/slave you will EVER see. i am more domineering in my personality because i have had-to fend-for-myself since i was a kid, and working-the-streets all my life..

"I" am one can and WILL stand up to anyone anywhere. "I" have no fear of man nor beast.
so i guess whomever wrote this has TOO many fears, huh?
if a situation seems unjust, seems unsafe, damned right i am gonna tell ya NO!
i am nobody's dog to kick around. i don't take any backlip off anyone including my own Ms.
i AM an adult of 50 plus.
but on the other hand-------if it is a reasonable situation..i NORMALLY -------- NEVER say no. and as yet? i have NOT said no to ANY domme i was with.

wolfie

 

[Miss Trickery]

I wouldn't trust a sub who couldn't tell me no without breaking a sweat.

I think this was the original.

To each, his/her own - I wouldn't trust a dom, who wouldn't trust me for not being able to tell him, no, without breaking a sweat.

 

[roosterado9]

i think i've learned more about sentence structure reading this thread then my college English classes lol

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Actually, I am wondering why it confused you at all, AA. If Marquis was talking about a sub that could tell him no... why, I believe he would have used the word "could" instead of the word "couldn't."

Perhaps, but based on a gut feeling, i believe he'd have more issue with a warrior sub than ... how did Eddie Murphy put it last night ... (highly paraphrased) "a shy bitch with skeletons in her closet that only wants a salad, and is too scared to say anything for fear a bone will come flying out of her mouth."

It's not a big deal. *shrug* I was just trying to clear up a misunderstanding, if there was one. Everyone makes grammar, syntax, and spelling mistakes sometimes, but I found the sentence in question highly readable.

i agree, not a big deal, but a very good point when discussing the title topic. Whether he intended to or not is in the realm of his mind. If we were two buds out hunting, and he were to tell me something i didn't understand, i'd sure as hell ask him to speak plainly rather than hope i'd understood. Cock-blocking is not my style, intentionally, nor unintentionally.

Not necessarily true, AA, and I would expect a self-styled language nazi such as yourself to know that! Context makes a HUGE difference sometimes. Rearranging Marquis' sentence to say "I could not trust a sub who wouldn't tell me no" holds a subtle but pointedly different meaning than his original wording. Just for starters, in this case the sub is apparently capable of saying no but decides not to, as opposed to originally being "incapable" of saying no.

i'll agree that your sentence changes the original intent, but then it should considering you've changed could to would.

Incidentally, some sentences when rearranged would display an even larger discrepency from the original intent. "My dog eats his poop for dinner and I eat steak." means something quite different than "I eat his poop for dinner and my dog eats steak."

You missed the point, although how (when you originally mentioned punctuation) i don't know. Changing the order of words is not the intent. Changing the sentence structure (with required punctuation) is and sometimes makes an otherwise confusing sentence clear.

 

[Marquis]

Perhaps, but based on a gut feeling, i believe he'd have more issue with a warrior sub than ... how did Eddie Murphy put it last night ... (highly paraphrased) "a shy bitch with skeletons in her closet that only wants a salad, and is too scared to say anything for fear a bone will come flying out of her mouth."

Nah, I prefer a girl who eats real food.

So I can make her eat salad.



I'll take an obnoxious, rude, arrogant exterior with a core of gold over a superficially coquette but internally vengeful princess any day of the week.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Nah, I prefer a girl who eats real food.

So I can make her eat salad.



I'll take an obnoxious, rude, arrogant exterior with a core of gold over a superficially coquette but internally vengeful princess any day of the week.

If you had said bone wearing bitch butt naked on a zebra, i would have lost it.

And thank you for the clarification.

 

[chris9]

In a vanilla role you could shout, yell, sulk whatever in D/s there may be differing expectations.

All relationships are about communcation, a plate flying toward your head is a form of that, even if there are no spoken words attached to it.

There also may be different expectations in a vanilla relationship.
I know I get shouting, yelling, sulking mad at times, ready to rip his head off (especially when I had a bad day AND didn't eat enough). But that won't solve any problems.
Luckily I find out after a while (and some food) that I have been mad at myself or just generally angry with the world. Than all's well again. But if that's not the reason, if I'm mad about something he did/didn't do, yelling won't help at all. So we have to talk.

Now if he is unable to give me what I need due to life intruding on our relationship, I have to get it myself. Like in July, he had 11 final exams in just four days, some serious stuff with lots to learn. He rarely remembered saying 'hi' or giving me a kiss. I was becoming very frustrated with being ignored. Then I just started cuddling a bit when he came to bed (even if it meant staying up longer waiting for him). This helped me a lot to feel loved, but didn't mean he had to do anything he didn't want to/wasn't able to.

I don't really know if this answer helps at all in respect to this thread, but I found it interesting (up until disecting this one sentence started, then I didn't understand it anymore) and wanted to add my thoughts.

 

[Killishandra]

i'll agree that your sentence changes the original intent, but then it should considering you've changed could to would.

I only switched the places of "could" and "wouldn't" in the original sentence. I didn't add or take anything away. I'm just trying to say that for any sentence with multiple nouns they cannot always be rearranged and retain the same meaning.

nener nener




P.S. Eddie Murphy "RAW" is some funny shit, eh? I want HALF!!

 

[Recidiva]

P.S. Eddie Murphy "RAW" is some funny shit, eh? I want HALF!!

Ed-Deee...what have you done for me lately?

 

[tempsbrat]

It's been interesting reading this thread. My Mistress and I are long distance at this time, though she is planning on moving here. We do active cyber when we can't be together, and the rule for me is that I am not allowed to use the word "no" because it is so vanilla. It doesn't allow for greater understanding of what I am going through, need, or want and it is a word of control. Therefore, I must come up with a way to state my views in a respectful manner in keeping with the previous statement.

It can be something as simple as Mistress asking me, "Did you go to the doctor today?" If the answer is "no", then I say, "I did not go today because .....". She may or may not find my reason acceptable and deal with it at that point. I do also think there is some difference between being a sub and a slave. Mine is a complicated mixture and we are both partners so there is a fine line to walk that she controls, and at any time can assert the D/s aspect.

I do think the day to day situations are a real challenge for 24/7 D/s. How many lament the days gone by when D/s play was so frequent and now find themselves rarely playing at all? All relationships take work to not fall into ruts, but I do believe a D/s one takes even more care, and it is imho on the shoulders of the PYL to keep the relationship on course as they are the Captain of the ship. I am a pyl precisely because I don't want to lead and control, and she is a PYL precisely because she wants to be in control, and I trust that she wants her pet happy, thus will not just take care of her needs, but mine as well.

I cannot ever imagine saying "Fuck no" or "Fuck off" to my Mistress. Our's is a relationship built on trust and respect. If it gets to the point that those words are forming on my lips, then the ship is way off course and we need to talk as equals and find out what the hell is wrong.

Now having said all that, I do have 10 years experience as a PYL and fully appreciate the demands it does put on the PYL. But, that is their choice to step into that role, to have that trust, and it is an amazing gift to gain that kind of loyal submission and the responsibility of it should feel immense if you truly to cherish your pyl.

 

[Recidiva]

I cannot ever imagine saying "Fuck no" or "Fuck off" to my Mistress. Our's is a relationship built on trust and respect. If it gets to the point that those words are forming on my lips, then the ship is way off course and we need to talk as equals and find out what the hell is wrong.

I can't imagine NOT feeling free to say this to my husband. Of course I probably won't, I'll say something more creative. Today he points to some overripe bananas in the kitchen and says "Those need to go away." And I take them, throw them away and say "Why don't you feel you can pick those bananas up and throw them away yourself? REACH out into the world, don't be afraid of it!" I take his face in my hands and kiss him like he's just scared of the world.

Got me a spanking. Fun. He also looked ashamed enough to probably toss the bananas himself the next time. This is play, this is fun. I give an order, he gives an order, doesn't matter.

He's a selfish pain in the ass, I'm a wise-ass bitch. Suits us. The arrangement is that only one person can collapse at a time. Whoever is strongest at any given moment, leads.

I also called him at work two nights ago because I had a headache so bad and I couldn't sleep because of our new puppy. He came home early from work that night, watched over me and listened to me complain about the fence, the puppy and how I can't handle everything all the time when I'm sick. He fixed the fence, ordered a new zappy collar for the puppy and spent a few hours training the dog.

Share.

 

[Netzach]

It's been interesting reading this thread. My Mistress and I are long distance at this time, though she is planning on moving here. We do active cyber when we can't be together, and the rule for me is that I am not allowed to use the word "no" because it is so vanilla. It doesn't allow for greater understanding of what I am going through, need, or want and it is a word of control. Therefore, I must come up with a way to state my views in a respectful manner in keeping with the previous statement.

It can be something as simple as Mistress asking me, "Did you go to the doctor today?" If the answer is "no", then I say, "I did not go today because .....". She may or may not find my reason acceptable and deal with it at that point. I do also think there is some difference between being a sub and a slave. Mine is a complicated mixture and we are both partners so there is a fine line to walk that she controls, and at any time can assert the D/s aspect.

I do think the day to day situations are a real challenge for 24/7 D/s. How many lament the days gone by when D/s play was so frequent and now find themselves rarely playing at all? All relationships take work to not fall into ruts, but I do believe a D/s one takes even more care, and it is imho on the shoulders of the PYL to keep the relationship on course as they are the Captain of the ship. I am a pyl precisely because I don't want to lead and control, and she is a PYL precisely because she wants to be in control, and I trust that she wants her pet happy, thus will not just take care of her needs, but mine as well.

I cannot ever imagine saying "Fuck no" or "Fuck off" to my Mistress. Our's is a relationship built on trust and respect. If it gets to the point that those words are forming on my lips, then the ship is way off course and we need to talk as equals and find out what the hell is wrong.

Now having said all that, I do have 10 years experience as a PYL and fully appreciate the demands it does put on the PYL. But, that is their choice to step into that role, to have that trust, and it is an amazing gift to gain that kind of loyal submission and the responsibility of it should feel immense if you truly to cherish your pyl.

My relationship is built on trust and respect and a lot of love.

That's also just part of how we talk. We're colloquial young 30 somethings. I know the difference between "fuck no" and "fuck off."

This is also my husband I'm talking about. Not a service slave. I can tolerate a lot of informality here, and I personally choose to be informal myself. That doesn't stop things like this

from being a part of daily life.

Our rt D/s has also had the challenge of a year of fighting a chronic illness on my part. It's taught me to pick my battles, and it's made me a better Domme. I laugh my ass off at any person who claims to always be in control these days. If you think you really control any of the big things that matter you are laboring under a sorry delusion. The only things I control are fairly small-scale stuff and it doesn't stop me from enjoying playing with my psychic blocks and tinker toys, but I refuse to take it so seriously that I miss any of the humor or unpredictable joys of my life.

If M gets out of line he hears about it. He can also get away with things that anyone else would court immedite dismissal over. Not fair, but I rather enjoy my not especially perfectly trained favorite pet.

 

[tempsbrat]

I guess it is just not part of who I am to speak disrespectfully to my partner. My Mistress is also my g/f, and intended partner. She likes to say that if I am not calling her a "bitch" behind her back then she is doing something wrong.

I am also not an overly disobedient pyl. I enjoy pleasing my Mistress a great deal, and she does not tolerate disobedience. She would not enjoy a SAM at all. I once had a SAM when I was a PYL, it was a great challenge, but once I got her under control it was a lot of fun. Submission is a choice plain and simple. If I can't talk about my feelings in a mature way without saying such things as "fuck off" then to me there is an issue with some serious miscommunication, needs unmet etc., and that is then part my fault and theirs.

I just don't see what is gained by rude behavior whether to a stranger or one's supposed best friend and lover which is what I think most people envision their spouses to be when they choose to marry.

 

[Netzach]

This has nothing remotely to do with how obedient my husband is or isn't. He follows more of my orders to the letter than most self-professed slaves I've been with, with less bullshit built in.

This seems to have to do with the fact that you find a certain phrase disrespectful and disobedient which I don't. Luckily he's my problem not yours.

 

[Recidiva]

I guess it is just not part of who I am to speak disrespectfully to my partner. My Mistress is also my g/f, and intended partner. She likes to say that if I am not calling her a "bitch" behind her back then she is doing something wrong.

I am also not an overly disobedient pyl. I enjoy pleasing my Mistress a great deal, and she does not tolerate disobedience. She would not enjoy a SAM at all. I once had a SAM when I was a PYL, it was a great challenge, but once I got her under control it was a lot of fun. Submission is a choice plain and simple. If I can't talk about my feelings in a mature way without saying such things as "fuck off" then to me there is an issue with some serious miscommunication, needs unmet etc., and that is then part my fault and theirs.

I just don't see what is gained by rude behavior whether to a stranger or one's supposed best friend and lover which is what I think most people envision their spouses to be when they choose to marry.

(another ignorance moment, what's a SAM in this context?)

I'm a firm believer in manners, but I'm also a firm believer in reality. I don't think you should say anything behind someone's back that you haven't said to their face or wouldn't say to their face if prompted.

So I agree with you. But my personal reality is that I don't always respect other people's actions, so I call them into question verbally. I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't. I respect being respectful, and in point of fact I am respectful.

There is a distinction between not speaking out of fear or not speaking out of respect. I respect my husband above all other people I know. Because I respect him, he gets my real thoughts. I'll admit if I'm jealous, if I'm rude, if I'm mistaken. I'm human. I make mistakes, I misinterpret...but I can also be right and need to be able to express clearly why I think so, and not have to defer to some set of rules.

For the people I don't have respect for, they don't get the real me. I know, I know, there's people cheering. That's why I don't give it. I even have respect for them. Not everyone wants reality. I can respect that too. I'd just want to be clear that they're clear before I wander off and don't have to worry about them.

So really, my concern isn't for those who would be comfortable in whatever role they choose. My only concern is for those who are afraid of losing the people they love if they showed their real thoughts, their real selves. For those people, I think they'd be best off finding someone who was able to listen to them, however the words are spoken, and will still be there when the storm passes, just the same as they were before, both trying to make things better for each other.

So my challenge is only...WHY can't you think of saying this stuff? Is it because it's disrespectful even when it's true? Or is it because you or someone else thinks your real self is too ugly to confront?

 

[Netzach]

(another ignorance moment, what's a SAM in this context?)

I'm a firm believer in manners, but I'm also a firm believer in reality. I don't think you should say anything behind someone's back that you haven't said to their face or wouldn't say to their face if prompted.

So I agree with you. But my personal reality is that I don't always respect other people's actions, so I call them into question verbally. I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't. I respect being respectful, and in point of fact I am respectful.

There is a distinction between not speaking out of fear or not speaking out of respect. I respect my husband above all other people I know. Because I respect him, he gets my real thoughts. I'll admit if I'm jealous, if I'm rude, if I'm mistaken. I'm human. I make mistakes, I misinterpret...but I can also be right and need to be able to express clearly why I think so, and not have to defer to some set of rules.

For the people I don't have respect for, they don't get the real me. I know, I know, there's people cheering. That's why I don't give it. I even have respect for them. Not everyone wants reality. I can respect that too. I'd just want to be clear that they're clear before I wander off and don't have to worry about them.

So really, my concern isn't for those who would be comfortable in whatever role they choose. My only concern is for those who are afraid of losing the people they love if they showed their real thoughts, their real selves. For those people, I think they'd be best off finding someone who was able to listen to them, however the words are spoken, and will still be there when the storm passes, just the same as they were before, both trying to make things better for each other.

So my challenge is only...WHY can't you think of saying this stuff? Is it because it's disrespectful even when it's true? Or is it because you or someone else thinks your real self is too ugly to confront?

I want to steal you.

Ok beyond that, my personal jones has never been to run around and change people or narrow their focus, or make them "more submissive" or anything like that. My ownership jones is kind of like a collector's impulse. I see the quirks and the bruises on someone and I like those too. If there's any noble drive to my perverse impulses (and I question this sometimes) it's a desire to make them more them. Whatever that is. To help them be them, the full range of them. I expect someone to cry and complain when I beat them if that's a real reaction. I expect them to sit still and enjoy it if that's genuinely them. I like to see what bubbles up.

I don't go in with a huge agenda. It's very simple. If I say to do something, do it. You can protest all you want, and some do, but they do it anyway, almost always.

I'm of the actions speak much louder than words school. If I had a dime for every slave who promises the moon and stars and runs off the moment they realize they might not get their favorite form of sexual gratification...ha.

I tend to keep my requests reasonable and my battles very small, so I'm rarely disappointed.

 

[graceanne]

(another ignorance moment, what's a SAM in this context?)

Smart Ass Masochist.

I personally have never had an occasion to be SAMMY. *blinks innocently*

Oh, yeah. Spew Alert.

 

[graceanne]

This has nothing remotely to do with how obedient my husband is or isn't. He follows more of my orders to the letter than most self-professed slaves I've been with, with less bullshit built in.

This seems to have to do with the fact that you find a certain phrase disrespectful and disobedient which I don't. Luckily he's my problem not yours.

LOL Frankly I must admit that 'Fuck No' has been said to K a few times. Since I was just teasing, he doesn't mind. If I ever stopped teasing him he'd think that I'd fallen out of love with him. I'm the politest to the people I hate the most.

 

[Recidiva]

I want to steal you.

That's so sweet!

My husband doesn't believe in reincarnation, so I'll probably be single when I die. Taking requests for next life and what gender.

 

[tempsbrat]

Ok, what my Mistress is saying is that she knows knows that she pushes my buttons and in that comes the test of my submission within myself. I feel very free to communicate my feelings and often do. I just do it in a respectful manner. I mean, what does being rude or calling names do but communicate one is not happy. Fine, one is not happy, but why?

Isn't it much better to say, "i really need ..... right now?" Or, "my feelings are hurt over ....." could be the feeling that you are not caring for me, i am not being appreciated, whatever it is conveys more information and opens up communication much better than "fuck off".

Up to this point, I have never felt she is a bitch, thus I have never thought it nor said it. I too believe in not talking behind someone back. I also know my Mistress would never tolerate that kind of disprespect. Everytime I have gotten disciplined, I deserved it. I am a big girl and can take my punishments. I have learned a lot about myself from them, as well as grown in my appreciation and devotion for my Mistress.

 

[Netzach]

LOL Frankly I must admit that 'Fuck No' has been said to K a few times. Since I was just teasing, he doesn't mind. If I ever stopped teasing him he'd think that I'd fallen out of love with him. I'm the politest to the people I hate the most.

Exactly. I know tons of people who loathe their families and would never dream of saying "peep" to them.

If someone was afraid to say something to me, I'd assume we were in a business relationship where they need to guard their ass on some level, or dating in the early stages of infatuation.

Farting is not especially charming, but if you can't do it in front of your spouse I think you are in serious trouble.

 

[Netzach]

That's so sweet!

My husband doesn't believe in reincarnation, so I'll probably be single when I die. Taking requests for next life and what gender.

We will both be beautiful gay men in head to toe leathers. Learn the hanky codes now, after all the boy scout motto is "be prepared."