Do you ever say 'No'?

[shy slave]

*sitting admist cookies crumbs and biting nails waiting on Miss Karen or Miss Hollie*

 

[catalina_francisco]

(why is there no bowing and scraping emoticion?? )

There is, but it won't work on me for this request!!

Catalina

 

[SweetDommes]

OK, I was going to post before work ... then I realized that it was time to leave so I had to go before the boy was late.

The lowdown on our new boy (who will be joining us here as soon as we have a network card for his computer):
he's a guy from work - he works at the annex (I work at the clinic in the main jail) and he takes me around when I go over to do med pass. the first few times that I dealt with him, I went to his supervisor and threatened to kill him.

he's 24 (just turned - had his birthday early in Sept.) which is a bit young, and sometimes it shows *rolls eyes* but overall, he's quite mature for his age and I love to spend time with him ... as long as I don't ask him about anything before 1987 or so ...

he's quite submissive - to the point that other people take him for a sucker. he works too much because he can't say no (thankfully, I'm in charge now, and I can).

he has worse family issues than ghosst does - and if we can get custody of his nephew, I think I'm going to forbid him to have anything to do with 3/4 of his family .... otherwise, I have to let him continue to have contact with at least his sister so that he can keep an eye on his nephew.

he's great at foot rubs - we're going to find out tomorrow night about back rubs

he is an annoying little shit when he's stoned (he broke his wrist a few weeks back, and no one should ever give a 5'5" 140# guy, who hasn't eaten in over 8 hours, 2 vicodins).

he was supposed to move in sometime in October, but had a falling out with one of his housemates (serious falling out) and moved in 2 weeks ago. we're currently going through the "adjusting to a new person living in the house" phase, but hopefully it will be over soon.

Anything else y'all can think of that you want to know?

 

[graceanne]

OK, I was going to post before work ... then I realized that it was time to leave so I had to go before the boy was late.

The lowdown on our new boy (who will be joining us here as soon as we have a network card for his computer):
he's a guy from work - he works at the annex (I work at the clinic in the main jail) and he takes me around when I go over to do med pass. the first few times that I dealt with him, I went to his supervisor and threatened to kill him.

he's 24 (just turned - had his birthday early in Sept.) which is a bit young, and sometimes it shows *rolls eyes* but overall, he's quite mature for his age and I love to spend time with him ... as long as I don't ask him about anything before 1987 or so ...

he's quite submissive - to the point that other people take him for a sucker. he works too much because he can't say no (thankfully, I'm in charge now, and I can).

he has worse family issues than ghosst does - and if we can get custody of his nephew, I think I'm going to forbid him to have anything to do with 3/4 of his family .... otherwise, I have to let him continue to have contact with at least his sister so that he can keep an eye on his nephew.

he's great at foot rubs - we're going to find out tomorrow night about back rubs

he is an annoying little shit when he's stoned (he broke his wrist a few weeks back, and no one should ever give a 5'5" 140# guy, who hasn't eaten in over 8 hours, 2 vicodins).

he was supposed to move in sometime in October, but had a falling out with one of his housemates (serious falling out) and moved in 2 weeks ago. we're currently going through the "adjusting to a new person living in the house" phase, but hopefully it will be over soon.

Anything else y'all can think of that you want to know?

Sounds great. Congratulations, and good luck on getting custody of his nephew. Beyond that, why would anyone need to know anything before 1987?

 

[shy slave]

OK, I was going to post before work ... then I realized that it was time to leave so I had to go before the boy was late.

The lowdown on our new boy (who will be joining us here as soon as we have a network card for his computer):
he's a guy from work - he works at the annex (I work at the clinic in the main jail) and he takes me around when I go over to do med pass. the first few times that I dealt with him, I went to his supervisor and threatened to kill him.

he's 24 (just turned - had his birthday early in Sept.) which is a bit young, and sometimes it shows *rolls eyes* but overall, he's quite mature for his age and I love to spend time with him ... as long as I don't ask him about anything before 1987 or so ...

he's quite submissive - to the point that other people take him for a sucker. he works too much because he can't say no (thankfully, I'm in charge now, and I can).

he has worse family issues than ghosst does - and if we can get custody of his nephew, I think I'm going to forbid him to have anything to do with 3/4 of his family .... otherwise, I have to let him continue to have contact with at least his sister so that he can keep an eye on his nephew.

he's great at foot rubs - we're going to find out tomorrow night about back rubs

he is an annoying little shit when he's stoned (he broke his wrist a few weeks back, and no one should ever give a 5'5" 140# guy, who hasn't eaten in over 8 hours, 2 vicodins).

he was supposed to move in sometime in October, but had a falling out with one of his housemates (serious falling out) and moved in 2 weeks ago. we're currently going through the "adjusting to a new person living in the house" phase, but hopefully it will be over soon.

Anything else y'all can think of that you want to know?

I am pleased for all of you.

That phase of getting used to each other can be fun too.

It always amazes me how many people have family issues, thank goodness we get to choose our friends lol

Its a shame you or catalina wont edit your post though, Andante needs to know that a hang nail is about as serious as it gets for reasons to say 'no'

Sometimes Dommes (and slaves with Domme tendancies *glares at Catalina*) are just no fun at all

 

[graceanne]

Sometimes Dommes (and slaves with Domme tendancies *glares at Catalina*) are just no fun at all

Well, at least we have eachother.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Sometimes Dommes (and slaves with Domme tendancies *glares at Catalina*) are just no fun at all

Not true!! Totally fun girl....well sometimes.

Catalina

 

[shy slave]

Well, at least we have eachother.

Only if you have cookies,

I am a shallow person, but hey, it works for me

 

[graceanne]

Only if you have cookies,

I am a shallow person, but hey, it works for me

lol You can have the cookies. I have some tummy thing, and I AM NOT EATING.

 

[chris9]

Graceanne, I can see your point. For me, telling someone to "fuck off" in a serious way, not some tongue in cheek manner is extremely rude. I definately don't see it as a sign of obedience or respect to speak that way to anyone. Again, if it doesn't bother you fine.

I do know from my experience as a Domme and talking to other PYL's that any sub who spoke that way would be disciplined. Any partner who spoke to me that way would not be my partner for long. Granted they would never get to that stage of "partner" with me either.

Maybe I misunderstood the whole argument? I thought it started because Netz said that her sub sometimes not only says 'no', but 'fuck no'. This then got somehow to 'fuck off'. I think I read that she said that 'fuck off' would be different, but that she personally doesn't mind 'fuck no' (at least in some situations).
So basically, when you are saying 'if it doesn't bother you fine' that is precisely the point everyone was trying to make.
I really don't see why you all got so aggressive.

 

[SweetDommes]

I am pleased for all of you.

That phase of getting used to each other can be fun too.

It always amazes me how many people have family issues, thank goodness we get to choose our friends lol

Its a shame you or catalina wont edit your post though, Andante needs to know that a hang nail is about as serious as it gets for reasons to say 'no'

Sometimes Dommes (and slaves with Domme tendancies *glares at Catalina*) are just no fun at all

Thanks

And I'm NOT editing it The only way that a hangnail is a good excuse is if it's the size of a dime, and oozing bloody pus.

And now that y'all have that lovely visual, I think I'll be moving on

 

[shy slave]

Thanks

And I'm NOT editing it The only way that a hangnail is a good excuse is if it's the size of a dime, and oozing bloody pus.

And now that y'all have that lovely visual, I think I'll be moving on

Shame you wont change your mind about the editing *sigh*

But thanks for the visual it all helps.

I can make a nail look like that and then bravely offer to put it places on him.

That should be a decent alternative to 'Fuck, No'


When I get to the day of being brave to say 'fuck, no' I will end up posting the fall out to it on the 'Things you should never say...' thread.

I am guessing that using the excuse of 'Netzach said....' is not going to work

lol

 

[ownedsubgal]

Its a sad fact that we can't live in fantasy, BDSM or D/s world on a 24/7 basis.

Real life creeps in and brings with it the reality of dishes needing washed, cars needing cleaned, tears needing mopped up, family needing our time and efforts.

We all have bad days and sometimes the very worst of times occur in our personal lives, completely seperate to any D/s or BDSM things we may want or need in our lives.

How do people deal with this if they are in a D/s relationship?

For example if your a pyl and your PYL asks you to do something that for whatever reason you do not feel able to perform?
I am not talking about not wanting to but feeling unable to, perhaps due to a reality elsewhere in your life that is taking up all of your mental and or physical ability.
Nor am I necessarily talking about a sexual aspect, it could be as simple as putting the rubbish out or making fresh coffee.

Do you 'perform' the task and hope it works out ok, do you explain how you feel at that point in time and hope they understand or do you end up arguing or disagreeing with them?


In a similiar vein PYL's how do you cope when you have personal issues that hinder your ability to play, plan use or whatever your pyl?
Sometimes reality can take up so much head space it leaves little room to make your pyl feel cared for or wanted.
Do you play 'just because,' do you explain the situation and promise normal service will resume in due course and in the meantime hope your relationship can cope or do you find an alternative way forward.

Please don't give me the answers that say 'good PYL/pyl should know your mood and gauge it all accordingly etc'

We are all only human, even PYLs!

the question asked here makes the implication that D/s is not real life...that it is some sort of on again/off again fantasy world that folks escape to for fun. but that's not the case. D/s is about who you are...it is a constant. i am always a submissive. i am always a slave. that does not mean that i don't have bad days, that i don't get irritated or depressed at times, that i'm always smiling and jumping happily at every command. absolutely none of those things change the fact that i am property, He is my Owner, and that i must keep my place.

do i say "no" to him? refuse him? tell him i'm not in the mood when he wants sex and i don't? tell him to "wait a sec" when i'm busy doing a million other chores and he calls me all of a sudden and tells me to bring him half a glass of water, even if he's 3 feet from the kitchen and i'm upstairs? do i beg him to please stop when he is about to subject me to something which i know will crush me emotionally (and he may not even realize this)? no. i don't. because i can't. because this is real life, not a fantasy, not a role i can shed at will. and in the real world...i accepted when i became his that things would not always be easy, that i would not always be happy, that things would not always be sunny and bright. so depression...physical illness...just plain moodiness....none of that gives me the power or right to say not to him. and if i am damaged in someway because of it, well he is there, and together we deal with the fallout.

 

[shy slave]

the question asked here makes the implication that D/s is not real life...that it is some sort of on again/off again fantasy world that folks escape to for fun. but that's not the case. D/s is about who you are...it is a constant. i am always a submissive. i am always a slave. that does not mean that i don't have bad days, that i don't get irritated or depressed at times, that i'm always smiling and jumping happily at every command. absolutely none of those things change the fact that i am property, He is my Owner, and that i must keep my place.

do i say "no" to him? refuse him? tell him i'm not in the mood when he wants sex and i don't? tell him to "wait a sec" when i'm busy doing a million other chores and he calls me all of a sudden and tells me to bring him half a glass of water, even if he's 3 feet from the kitchen and i'm upstairs? do i beg him to please stop when he is about to subject me to something which i know will crush me emotionally (and he may not even realize this)? no. i don't. because i can't. because this is real life, not a fantasy, not a role i can shed at will. and in the real world...i accepted when i became his that things would not always be easy, that i would not always be happy, that things would not always be sunny and bright. so depression...physical illness...just plain moodiness....none of that gives me the power or right to say not to him. and if i am damaged in someway because of it, well he is there, and together we deal with the fallout.

Hi OSG
Thanks for taking time to post.
My orginal question was not intended to imply that every D/s relationship is an on/off thing, but looking at some threads in Lit in can be for some people.

At present he and I don't live together, however he owns me, but day-to-day I don't have to see to his every wish, simply because of the physical distance between us.
Therefore he is my owner 24/7 but for now we don't live like that.

I can easily see there will be times when I will struggle with my submission because of other things in life.
I am not being flippant when I ask about how or if people say 'No' I am interested. You and one or two here people live the 24/7 life with all the realities and associated its ups and downs.
I have a great respect for that, but as a personal thing, I struggle with the concept that he ALWAYS comes first.
Not because I doubt my own commitment to him, but due to other practical issues.

OSG does he ever ask you how you are or if you want /don't want to do something?
or does he ever say you need an early night or bring you a cup of offee when your feeling unwell?

 

[ownedsubgal]

OSG does he ever ask you how you are or if you want /don't want to do something?
or does he ever say you need an early night or bring you a cup of offee when your feeling unwell?

hi shy...Daddy loves me very much, so yes sometimes he will ask how i am, or if i am up to doing something he know will be difficult. however my response is never "i don't want to do this" or "no"...that just doesn't fly around here. also, sharing with him (after he's asked and ONLY after he's asked) that i'm not feeling well or whatever does not mean that he will change his mind. sometimes he has mercy on me...oftentimes he does not. He just wants to know how i am feeling/what's going on in my head.

when i'm sick, he takes great care of me...making sure i take the right meds, get enough rest, eat properly, etc...at the same time, if he wants me on my knees before him with his cock down my throat for a while, that is what will happen, sick or not. when he notices that i'm exhausted, sometimes he'll order me to bed early. that does not mean he won't wake me up in the middle of the night and tell me to do something for him.

but that is the life i accepted, and the life i need. yes he ALWAYS comes first. He will take care of me...even pamper me at times...but those things are not givens. those things are not rights. to this day, i am surprised whenever he takes mercy on me, or takes it easy on me for whatever reason. if/when you come to EXPECT such treatment, such mercy, that to me is a sign of a heart who desires a far more equal relationship than D/s.

i wish you luck in your relationship shy, and try to remember, that just because he always comes first, that does not mean that you always come last.

 

[Recidiva]

Again, I have no problem with people that choose this path willingly and knowingly and with love in their hearts and not fear or judgment or the worst of all possible sins in this case, pride.

Unfortunately for many of the people who I feel are submissive, I often may feel more that they are subjected, and there is a difference. I have a huge respect for the interplay and exploration of human dynamics and the fact that like any magnetic thing, power has to flow from one person to the other.

What bothers me is the rejection of the reversal of poles that happens naturally. Power can't constantly flow from one way to the other, there has to be interplay. One person is going to get sucked dry and one person is going to be sucking. It's not magnetism then, it's not power, it's habit.

What alarms me is to hear the thread of a huge amount of pride from a submissive in being unbreakable, unbendable, unfazed, unbothered and never questioning "that's the way it is." Isn't the entire lifestyle itself an apparent rejection of "the way that it is" to others, yet internally can't face the same questions? Yes, there's thought and rebellion, but then holding onto something else just as hard with the same fervor that "vanilla" people do that don't look past their own boundaries is...sad to me.

The pride, the fear and the taboos set up around something that's essentially supposed to be there to break taboos just makes me very nervous and yes, want to ask questions of the people that show it. It makes me want to meet the Dom in question and really gauge...is this someone who takes on the burdens of the outer world to protect and care for someone to guard the inner world...or is it just a selfish bastard who has convinced someone less selfish that "this is the way it is."

I'm not saying anyone here is this person. But those people exist. Before anyone takes offense, honestly I don't recall the names of the people in this thread, only some of the tone and my ill-struck note of the massive amount of pride and defiance from someone...submissive? That sounds like something outside your own heads, something put there you had to adopt, something someone else should have to think FOR you and shouldn't occur to you really to be prideful or defiant about it in order to defend its place in your world.

Anyway, I'm not describing this well, but well enough to make a point. Please forgive my lack of explanation of every ebb and flow, but yeah, the lack of ebb and flow is what concerns me.

So if people are concerned and it may seem like hostility, it's simply because those dynamics don't seem real to me in my experience. It seems like a new religion, a new faith, something you're supposed to accept without question. I do not choose to accept anything without question. I wonder how much is held in place out of fear, pain and pride in order to enforce a smaller set of values, rather than joy, love and care, to be liberated from the values you were driven to dislike in the first place.

 

[babiesmiles]

and try to remember, that just because he always comes first, that does not mean that you always come last.

I really loved this sentence b.

 

[graceanne]

I really loved this sentence b.

I gotta agree.

 

[SweetDommes]

the question asked here makes the implication that D/s is not real life...that it is some sort of on again/off again fantasy world that folks escape to for fun. but that's not the case. D/s is about who you are...it is a constant. i am always a submissive. i am always a slave. that does not mean that i don't have bad days, that i don't get irritated or depressed at times, that i'm always smiling and jumping happily at every command. absolutely none of those things change the fact that i am property, He is my Owner, and that i must keep my place.

do i say "no" to him? refuse him? tell him i'm not in the mood when he wants sex and i don't? tell him to "wait a sec" when i'm busy doing a million other chores and he calls me all of a sudden and tells me to bring him half a glass of water, even if he's 3 feet from the kitchen and i'm upstairs? do i beg him to please stop when he is about to subject me to something which i know will crush me emotionally (and he may not even realize this)? no. i don't. because i can't. because this is real life, not a fantasy, not a role i can shed at will. and in the real world...i accepted when i became his that things would not always be easy, that i would not always be happy, that things would not always be sunny and bright. so depression...physical illness...just plain moodiness....none of that gives me the power or right to say not to him. and if i am damaged in someway because of it, well he is there, and together we deal with the fallout.

Please also keep in mind that while D/s is not something that can be turned on/off for everyone, not everyone is in a Master/slave relationship where there is not the option of saying no. In most D/s relationships that I know of (thinking in particular about the ones that do not use the term "slave" in any way) this is not the case. It isn't a case of a submissive who thinks that this is "a role [to be] shed at will" or who thinks that this isn't "real life" or who doesn't "keep [her] place". This is someone who is coming to terms with melding the "real life" with the D/s aspects of her relationship.

While your input is valuable, your tone leaves a bit to be desired, in my opinion. It comes across to me as "my way of being a pyl means that I'm more devoted than other people because I never say no" - and that is more than a bit offensive to me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am not being flippant when I ask about how or if people say 'No' I am interested. You and one or two here people live the 24/7 life with all the realities and associated its ups and downs.
I have a great respect for that, but as a personal thing, I struggle with the concept that he ALWAYS comes first.
Not because I doubt my own commitment to him, but due to other practical issues.

I think one of the most important things to remember is you are human and as much as you may wish to be perfect, you can never achieve perfection in reality. F has to remind me often that while he wants me to strive for perfection, he not only realises there will be times when it is impossible (but he will still ask for it at those times), but that if I did perfect the popularised image of slave who never questions, slave who always does as told when she is told and to perfection, slave who never has to battle the inner struggle, slave who never fails, then he would be bored and disappointed. Part of his attraction to me is that I am not perfect, though I strive for it, and that I can be challenged and thus am given countless opportunities to demonstrate my desire to place him first, even if I might not always succeed.....success is good, as is failure in it's own way as it provides some light and dark, some visible proof that when something is done with him coming first despite anything else, that I have chosen to recognise his rights and needs over mine as opposed to it being an automatic response that may not mean anything more than that was what I had become used to or wanted for my own reasons. He likes to know there may have been a struggle, but I chose to obey. Make sense?

Catalina

 

[Recidiva]

I think one of the most important things to remember is you are human and as much as you may wish to be perfect, you can never achieve perfection in reality. F has to remind me often that while he wants me to strive for perfection, he not only realises there will be times when it is impossible (but he will still ask for it at those times), but that if I did perfect the popularised image of slave who never questions, slave who always does as told when she is told and to perfection, slave who never has to battle the inner struggle, slave who never fails, then he would be bored and disappointed. Part of his attraction to me is that I am not perfect, though I strive for it, and that I can be challenged and thus am given countless opportunities to demonstrate my desire to place him first, even if I might not always succeed.....success is good, as is failure in it's own way as it provides some light and dark, some visible proof that when something is done with him coming first despite anything else, that I have chosen to recognise his rights and needs over mine as opposeed to it being an automatic response that may not mean anything more than that was what I had become used to or wanted for my own reasons. He likes to know there may have been a struggle, but I chose to obey. Make sense?

Catalina

*wild cheering*

 

[His_pita]

*wild cheering*

I agree that was a great post Catalina! My Dom often says what he loves about me is that I'm a challenge to him. I haven't ever been in a D/s lifestyle before and being an obedient submissive is a whole new life for me. He has a lot of work to do to get me trained the way he wants me and he figures it will take the rest of his life.

As to the subject of saying no to my Sir. I don’t see that happening. I have done it in chat before and just reading him telling me not to tell him no is enough to make me feel instantly contrite and wishing I had chosen my words differently. I know he will always listen to me and take into consideration my wishes and desires. But, he will own me and I will always do what he wants over what I want. That is what being his submissive means to me.

 

[vermillion_skye]

Its a sad fact that we can't live in fantasy, BDSM or D/s world on a 24/7 basis.

Real life creeps in and brings with it the reality of dishes needing washed, cars needing cleaned, tears needing mopped up, family needing our time and efforts.

We all have bad days and sometimes the very worst of times occur in our personal lives, completely seperate to any D/s or BDSM things we may want or need in our lives.

How do people deal with this if they are in a D/s relationship?

For example if your a pyl and your PYL asks you to do something that for whatever reason you do not feel able to perform?
I am not talking about not wanting to but feeling unable to, perhaps due to a reality elsewhere in your life that is taking up all of your mental and or physical ability.
Nor am I necessarily talking about a sexual aspect, it could be as simple as putting the rubbish out or making fresh coffee.

Do you 'perform' the task and hope it works out ok, do you explain how you feel at that point in time and hope they understand or do you end up arguing or disagreeing with them?


In a similiar vein PYL's how do you cope when you have personal issues that hinder your ability to play, plan use or whatever your pyl?
Sometimes reality can take up so much head space it leaves little room to make your pyl feel cared for or wanted.
Do you play 'just because,' do you explain the situation and promise normal service will resume in due course and in the meantime hope your relationship can cope or do you find an alternative way forward.

Please don't give me the answers that say 'good PYL/pyl should know your mood and gauge it all accordingly etc'

We are all only human, even PYLs!

i had a different reaction to the above. Hope you don't mind.


i got out of a bad marriage a year and a half ago. We were D/s or at the time so i thought. i am submissive with a fiery spirit. That isn't to say i am bratty or disrespectful. i am a single Mom of 3 girls. They absolutely come first in everything. That isn't negotiable anywhere in my life nor does it leave much room in the realm of possibilities for a relationship. Not only have i accepted that, i also have no desire for a relationship in my life right now. i am very self-focused these days. Coming out of a 13 year marriage, i think most would be.

Having said the above...when he and i started the D/s, i truly believed it was with equal passion and commitment. It wasn't. His personality proved to stay the same -- an addictive personality with no self-discipline or self-control. The more he lost control, the more he engaged in behaviors that harmed both his children and me, the more i withdrew and became absolutely determined to be different than him and his behaviors. i learned i can not be with a Dominant i can not respect. i learned i can not respect someone who has no self-discipline or self-control. In response i started doing odd things. We both smoked but the more his smoking habit increased, the smaller i made mine until i smoked no more than 2 a day. The more he left himself go physically/nutritionally despite being diabetic, the more determined i became to lose weight and exercise. The more he cheated, lied, and even stole, the more determined i became to circle the wagons around the girls and i and make sure there was some money in the bank or food on the table for them. my sexuality became something i supressed. There were times i felt i had no choice *but* to say no. i could give examples but believe it or not, i am trying to keep this short, lol. In a way his lack of self-discipline created my own. It also created a deep stubborness in me to never allow someone to put me or my children in such a situation again. Balancing that now with my submissive nature is something i am going to have to learn, and i know eventually i will be ready for that lesson. Right now i can not imagine trusting anyone. It took a long time for me to forgive myself for walking away. i felt such a sense of commitment. i looked at the ring on my finger, the collar i had worn around my neck for 3 years, and questioned for a long time whether i even had the right to walk away. Couldn't a good submissive figure out a way to make it work? What hadn't i done to please him or what else could i do to please him?

In an ideal D/s, M/s or any other varying combinations would not be the above. i am not perfect. i don't blame him. Blame is wasted. It was a learning experience. It is hard to explain how i am stronger in my submission now with this discovery of my own inner strength. i don't really think i can. i am submissive, yes, but i have an inquisitive nature. i am a debator. i have a teasing sense of humor. Sometimes i am even a bit of a smart ass (when appropriate). i have a heart. i have a right to laugh and be happy. i have a right to be at peace with myself. i have a right to be the best mom i can be to my girls and provide for them accordingly. Being submissive to a Dominant does not rob me of these rights. It does not make me any more or less than anyone else. It means i am aware of who i am, and aware there are going to be times saying no is necessary and it has to be allowed. Necessary does not fall, for me, under the catagory of i am not in the mood or can it wait a minute because i am finishing my lunch. Necessary is the kids are outside playing and suddenly one of them is crying and i need to go find out why, etc. Necessary is i have to work late and won't be home in time to cook dinner.

And lastly, the above was just my opinion. Have a good day.

 

[Recidiva]

Having said the above...when he and i started the D/s, i truly believed it was with equal passion and commitment. It wasn't.

Thank you! That's exactly what I worry about in people. But sometimes the only way out is the way through. Thank you for expressing so much I know for myself to be true. There is so much to this that expresses strength and individuality, but any absolute can mask an unquestioned weakness that if it's never questioned, will never be revealed, only suspected.

 

[catalina_francisco]

i had a different reaction to the above. Hope you don't mind.


i got out of a bad marriage a year and a half ago. We were D/s or at the time so i thought. i am submissive with a fiery spirit. That isn't to say i am bratty or disrespectful. i am a single Mom of 3 girls. They absolutely come first in everything. That isn't negotiable anywhere in my life nor does it leave much room in the realm of possibilities for a relationship. Not only have i accepted that, i also have no desire for a relationship in my life right now. i am very self-focused these days. Coming out of a 13 year marriage, i think most would be.

Having said the above...when he and i started the D/s, i truly believed it was with equal passion and commitment. It wasn't. His personality proved to stay the same -- an addictive personality with no self-discipline or self-control. The more he lost control, the more he engaged in behaviors that harmed both his children and me, the more i withdrew and became absolutely determined to be different than him and his behaviors. i learned i can not be with a Dominant i can not respect. i learned i can not respect someone who has no self-discipline or self-control. In response i started doing odd things. We both smoked but the more his smoking habit increased, the smaller i made mine until i smoked no more than 2 a day. The more he left himself go physically/nutritionally despite being diabetic, the more determined i became to lose weight and exercise. The more he cheated, lied, and even stole, the more determined i became to circle the wagons around the girls and i and make sure there was some money in the bank or food on the table for them. my sexuality became something i supressed. There were times i felt i had no choice *but* to say no. i could give examples but believe it or not, i am trying to keep this short, lol. In a way his lack of self-discipline created my own. It also created a deep stubborness in me to never allow someone to put me or my children in such a situation again. Balancing that now with my submissive nature is something i am going to have to learn, and i know eventually i will be ready for that lesson. Right now i can not imagine trusting anyone. It took a long time for me to forgive myself for walking away. i felt such a sense of commitment. i looked at the ring on my finger, the collar i had worn around my neck for 3 years, and questioned for a long time whether i even had the right to walk away. Couldn't a good submissive figure out a way to make it work? What hadn't i done to please him or what else could i do to please him?

In an ideal D/s, M/s or any other varying combinations would not be the above. i am not perfect. i don't blame him. Blame is wasted. It was a learning experience. It is hard to explain how i am stronger in my submission now with this discovery of my own inner strength. i don't really think i can. i am submissive, yes, but i have an inquisitive nature. i am a debator. i have a teasing sense of humor. Sometimes i am even a bit of a smart ass (when appropriate). i have a heart. i have a right to laugh and be happy. i have a right to be at peace with myself. i have a right to be the best mom i can be to my girls and provide for them accordingly. Being submissive to a Dominant does not rob me of these rights. It does not make me any more or less than anyone else. It means i am aware of who i am, and aware there are going to be times saying no is necessary and it has to be allowed. Necessary does not fall, for me, under the catagory of i am not in the mood or can it wait a minute because i am finishing my lunch. Necessary is the kids are outside playing and suddenly one of them is crying and i need to go find out why, etc. Necessary is i have to work late and won't be home in time to cook dinner.

And lastly, the above was just my opinion. Have a good day.

Great post from a reality base I can relate to. Being submissive does not mean throwing all caution to the wind and placing the Dominant in a postition of omnipotent one who is entitled to demand and expect the impossible, including risking the welfare of children, others, or their submissive....I think it is more about being dominant in a real world where the unexpected can and does happen, and then has to be negotiated into the whole picture when absolutely necessary. Let's face it, there are few Dominant's who really would feel good about their child being run over by a car because they were outside but their mother/father was prevented from ensuring their safety until after the Dom/me had their blowjob, or who would feel very dominant if they demanded something of their submissive regardless which resulted in the submissive dying in the middle of it from a heart attack or stroke. Unfortunately there are things in our realities which we, Dominant or submissive, are incapable of controlling but can take into account and deal with wisely.

Catalina