Does it bother any guys how many gay and bi women there are?

[Vail_Indigo]

I knew when posting this question I would get some varied responses. If you are a bi oriented person thats fine. I have no interest in other men at all and never have...being told I do is a little simple minded. I now have to watch television where every show has to have the gay character...why is that? I dont have any openly gay people in my immediate set of friends, but in the microcosm of tv every 6th person is gay. It is far to calculated to get ratings that they would represent it if there was not some truth to it. I loved the movie "Milk" Sean Penn was fantastic but it was a little hard to get around all the "gayness" as a straight guy. BTW I am not really threatened ...just posing the question.

you'll also notice that the gay characters tend to be rather minor and seldom have anything meaningful to do on the show.
While the percentage of gays on TV may outweigh the percentage of gays in the country (and I'm not saying it does, I have no idea how many characters on TV are gay), thats probably the least of the unrealistic aspects of modern tv.
BTW, when I say everyone is bi inside, I'm saying that as a strictly lesbian woman. My point is that we basically start out bi and get molded otherwise.

It sounds to me like you aren't so much threatened as you are confused by it all and so you find it off-putting.

 

[Tuomas]

It seems more of a fashion statement, really. There are plenty of people who actually are bi, of course. But that doesn't stop there from being quite a lot of posers. Especially considering that gay is the "in" thing, nowadays.

Yes, I'm aware that there is still a lot of discrimination against homosexuals, and quite a lot of social taboos. But that's precisely the point: being "bi" is one of the best ways to rebel against your parents these days, because it seems the only thing they care about.

Think about it, if your parents spend most of their time at church or in picket lines talking about how "gay is a sin"; being bi will certainly get their attention.

Then, there's Aldous Huxley, and how as a society gets more repressive, sexual "freedom" increases as a "release" valve. Orgies and other things were commonplace in the decline of the Roman Empire, and the fall of Classic Greece, and end of the Dynasties of Egypt...

 

[Vail_Indigo]

It seems more of a fashion statement, really. There are plenty of people who actually are bi, of course. But that doesn't stop there from being quite a lot of posers. Especially considering that gay is the "in" thing, nowadays.

Yes, I'm aware that there is still a lot of discrimination against homosexuals, and quite a lot of social taboos. But that's precisely the point: being "bi" is one of the best ways to rebel against your parents these days, because it seems the only thing they care about.

Think about it, if your parents spend most of their time at church or in picket lines talking about how "gay is a sin"; being bi will certainly get their attention.

Then, there's Aldous Huxley, and how as a society gets more repressive, sexual "freedom" increases as a "release" valve. Orgies and other things were commonplace in the decline of the Roman Empire, and the fall of Classic Greece, and end of the Dynasties of Egypt...

decadence in general (say, drugs and alcohol) are great forms of mass control (TV too).
That said, this comes back to my earlier point that the more people feel free to experiment, even if its only rebellion, the more freedom we all end up with

And while gay may be 'in' in some places, it is definitely not in most. And, in all honesty, I still think its mostly ok to be bi for girls, much less so for men.

 

[mrtomthumb]

Very wll stated. I am not a hater. I think I saw what I thought to be a very young and sweet girl all of a sudden go from being innocent to making out with other girls in the middle of the caf and was like "wtf ?"

 

[Tuomas]

Vail, certainly. But we also have to make sure we aren't trading one kind of freedom that feels good right now, for another that is actually good for us. Like a child stuffing himself with cake, having been given the "freedom" to choose what to eat

Then, of course, I'm a cynical bastard who is always suspicious of a lot of people vehemently agreeing with each other.

mrtom, exactly. Why making out in the cafeteria? In front of her friends? Publicly? Not that it should be hidden, but the whole point of a fashion statement is the publicity.

Very good publicity, in this case, though

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Very wll stated. I am not a hater. I think I saw what I thought to be a very young and sweet girl all of a sudden go from being innocent to making out with other girls in the middle of the caf and was like "wtf ?"

Okay...but would you have had the same reaction if she were making out with guys? Or if it were a "very young and sweet" guy who went from "being innocent" to making out with girls or guys? Just curious.

 

[lickjen]

alas mr tom! never fear! there are plenty of bi girls out there like myself who may agree that while men (and their bodies) can be expendable, nothing will take the place of a live throbbing member!

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Okay...but would you have had the same reaction if she were making out with guys? Or if it were a "very young and sweet" guy who went from "being innocent" to making out with girls or guys? Just curious.

I think you bring up a valid point.
Shes suddenly not innocent because she's making out with a girl.
But if she'd been kissing a guy it would have been fine.
Which implies that homosexual behavior is deviant in some way.
I, myself, have known I was gay since I was a little girl. I know many bi people who have known the same since they were kids.

Also, having been a girl since I was born, I can tell you that the belief that somehow we are more innocent than boys (I don't even know for certain what that means) is a lie told by people who have idealized, say, the 1950s where female sexuality was stuffed deep into the closet (even though there was plenty of sex and teen pregnancy and abortions).
Its the same attitude that says boys should have lots of sex, and girls should stay virgins, which begs the question of "boys should have lots of sex with who???"

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Vail, certainly. But we also have to make sure we aren't trading one kind of freedom that feels good right now, for another that is actually good for us. Like a child stuffing himself with cake, having been given the "freedom" to choose what to eat

Then, of course, I'm a cynical bastard who is always suspicious of a lot of people vehemently agreeing with each other.

mrtom, exactly. Why making out in the cafeteria? In front of her friends? Publicly? Not that it should be hidden, but the whole point of a fashion statement is the publicity.

Very good publicity, in this case, though

Are you implying that trying out a little bi action is bad for you?
What are the specifics of your metaphor?

 

[mrtomthumb]

I think you bring up a valid point.
Shes suddenly not innocent because she's making out with a girl.
But if she'd been kissing a guy it would have been fine.
Which implies that homosexual behavior is deviant in some way.
I, myself, have known I was gay since I was a little girl. I know many bi people who have known the same since they were kids.

Also, having been a girl since I was born, I can tell you that the belief that somehow we are more innocent than boys (I don't even know for certain what that means) is a lie told by people who have idealized, say, the 1950s where female sexuality was stuffed deep into the closet (even though there was plenty of sex and teen pregnancy and abortions).
Its the same attitude that says boys should have lots of sex, and girls should stay virgins, which begs the question of "boys should have lots of sex with who???"

Well to be honest and answer both...I never see girls and guys making out or even holding hands. I never thought about it till you asked. There is this one couple that are always hanging all over each other, I am not a big fan of them either.I think I would be surprised if she had been openly "making out with some guy in the middle of the caf" also. I know from the girls that I have been with that girls are in no way more innocent than guys...my first real girlfriend was a dirty girl who taught me well...THANK YOU RACHEAL!!!

 

[TalondeKarrde]

wonders if you stopped to think that perhaps it was a sorority dare?

college, meals, the idea just sort of popped into My head

just knowing what goes on within pledging activities

could be a plausible explanation for the sudden "innocent" (as if there is a truth in advertising guarantee for that one ) gone rogue

and by the way no it doesn't bother Me at all

and am looking forward to My first bi experience

Damn that was liberating

and I have to thank Lit for that

 

[Vail_Indigo]

then it sounds like you aren't actually talking about gay and bi women but rahter that you have a problem with sexuality that isn't hidden away.
*shrug*
which, imho, is a personal issue (and one that so many people suffer from and which, I feel, does life a disservice)

 

[gloriann]

As a lesbian, no, I have no problems with the amount of gay and bi women, of course. I've never attempted to "turn" anyone, either... a) it's not possible, and b) I'm no one's experiment, so that realm of experience is not in my book.

As far as the amount of characters on TV that are gay, well, it can be frustrating when all you see around you is straight activity, no one even on the television like you, maybe going through something close to what you're going through... we could bring that argument to race as well... so having a few gay characters on TV isn't hurting anyone.

Next point: posers. There do seem to be loads of posers out there claiming to be bi. Being "bi" to turn on your boyfriend isn't really being bi, it's just being more open-minded about sex. Apologies to the true bisexuals out there, of course.

 

[mrtomthumb]

then it sounds like you aren't actually talking about gay and bi women but rahter that you have a problem with sexuality that isn't hidden away.
*shrug*
which, imho, is a personal issue (and one that so many people suffer from and which, I feel, does life a disservice)

As far as over the top public displays of affection I just think it is more for " look at me or look at us" I find that usually the show is to cover for insecurities of one or both involved. It is like the coworker who is always" look at what I do" they usually do the least. I also find (sadly) that the most overt behavior in women (talking about sex openly) were usually abused or introduced to sex in an unhealthy manner. I try not to blurt out my sexual desires to anyone in shouting distance in a public setting..is that bad? I will talk very openly one on one with women that are likeminded. I have been in situations where women who would talk very openly about sexual matters would one day not be in the mood and want to file sexual harrassment charges against some guy. It makes you think twice I tell you.

 

[mrtomthumb]

As a lesbian, no, I have no problems with the amount of gay and bi women, of course. I've never attempted to "turn" anyone, either... a) it's not possible, and b) I'm no one's experiment, so that realm of experience is not in my book.

As far as the amount of characters on TV that are gay, well, it can be frustrating when all you see around you is straight activity, no one even on the television like you, maybe going through something close to what you're going through... we could bring that argument to race as well... so having a few gay characters on TV isn't hurting anyone.

Next point: posers. There do seem to be loads of posers out there claiming to be bi. Being "bi" to turn on your boyfriend isn't really being bi, it's just being more open-minded about sex. Apologies to the true bisexuals out there, of course.

To your point about TV...I think it is true in that you want to see a character that echoes your own experience...I get that. I embrace that. One of my all time favorite shows was SIX FEET UNDER. I admit the open gayness of the main character was sometimes difficult for me to process. I guess I am like the true male version of the "real" lesbian in all that male intimacy does nothing for me. I wouldnt want to watch Rosannne have sex with John Goodman either.

 

[none2_none2]

To your point about TV...I think it is true in that you want to see a character that echoes your own experience...I get that. I embrace that. One of my all time favorite shows was SIX FEET UNDER. I admit the open gayness of the main character was sometimes difficult for me to process. I guess I am like the true male version of the "real" lesbian in all that male intimacy does nothing for me. I wouldnt want to watch Rosannne have sex with John Goodman either.

I know this is thread is almost a month old but when I read it, I wanted to make comments. I cannot understand why one would think older lesbians are recruiting young innocent girls. I know a lot of older lesbians, and most of them seek out other lesbians somewhat more in their age range. Sure they may think a younger girls is attractive, but what do they have in common?

Plus your comment that one out of every 6 characters on TV is gay is either a bizarre comment or I'd sure like to know what cable or satellite channel to which you are subscribing. For example, I love science fiction. The SyFy channel has one lesbian character in their new Star Gate Universe series. Considering that between the original movie, the original series, the Atlantis Series that have gone on for years, I'd hardly consider one lesbian character as representing 1 in 6 characters as being gay. The same can be said for Star Treck, Star Wars, and most of the other science fiction genre. Star Trek had one or two episodes over the years where the topic of gender attraction was raised, but none were directly about homosexuality as we know it.

The science fiction show, BBC's Torchwood series, has a gay character and it is a bit unusual. The gay character is the main character and not quite the stereotype mild-mannered, or effeminate gay male character.

In comedy it became more acceptable to have a gay character, but many times they are more for comic relief. Not all gay guys are like the gay guys on Will & Grace. I admit that I also had problems with the Milk movie. I couldn't relate to the stereotypes myself. I think that typically when people live in a ghetto whether it is an urban ghetto based on religion, race, nationality, or even gayness, you do get people acting, talking, etc different from the majority. It isn't that the group is good or bad, but because they have been isolating from the society at large. Isolation results in peculiarities showing up which you wouldn't see if they were integrated.

Also on cable some channels they some times show soft porn on the HBO channels. It is all straight with an occasional lesbian scene. There is never a gay male scene. Can I write HBO and ask for my money back if I don't get my on in 6 man on man softcore sex scene?

You say you aren't a hater nor a homophobe. I take people at their word, but it does seem that you are a little pre-occupied with the subject. Do you get weirded out if there is an all black show or all asian show, or an all Hispanic show? Do you bother to count how many shows have representation from such groups? If not, why should gay characters bother you? I would think you would like gay male characters as that means str8 male characters have more female characters to hook up with.

Personally, I watch a show because I love the content -- not because the important characters look, feel, act exactly like me or want to fuck what I want to fuck. If I did, I wouldn't watch TV. Because I cannot relate to most of the gay characters that are on TV as they tend to fit stereotypes that are foreign to me. Note that the reason I happen to know when there is a gay character isn't because I'm gay an desperate to see other characters nor is it because I read some "find-a-gay-Tv-character blog. It is because it is so rare, that it stands out. It would be like knowing when a dolphin is on a TV show because it is so rare. It is not as rare as it used to be, but it is a long way from being 1 in 6 chars.

I also think you really aren't aware of the stress that gay people are under in public. I would agree that typically that couples (gay or str8) that kiss or hold hands are really not expressing love but saying "look at us aren't we hot"! However, gay couples have to think about how close they walk together, how close they sit together or whether they blurt out terms of endearment in the wrong place. If you need a heterosexual example, imagine a younger guy who is madly in love and involved with an older married woman. Imagine that they always use loving terms in private (ie honey, sweet, baby), but in their common circle or around the husband, the guy has to always remember to say Mrs _____________ instead of honey. That takes a lot of language self-censoring. I remember years ago I was dating someone, and we went way out into the boonies off the major roads and no where near any city or town of any size. We went there because there was some historic covered bridge that had been moved to a little used location. There was not a sole at the site & it was a ways to walk there. We held hands just because we felt like it. All of a sudden in the distance there was another car that showed up. So of course we had to stop holding hands. That is the kind of thing gay people have to think about all the time. Straight people don't actively have to think about whether they should hold hands or use terms of endearment. So is the gay person that hold hands really flaunting it, or just tired or forgetting to hid it for the sense of other's biases?

I also cannot agree with you about people talking openly about their sexuality. Young straight guys LOVE to talk about their conquests. Older guys once they get married, won't typically talk about their sex life (married or extra), but they will constantly point out who they think is hot -- as if to make sure the other guys know that they may be married but their drive is still strong. I have to be careful what I say, not that I want to talk about my sex life or preferences, but because as you get older and not married, they begin to get suspicious. It also amazes me that if I need to put a contact name on some form, and I put my partners name, the next question is what is the relationship. What difference does it matter whether he is my father, my brother, my son, my co-worker, my neighbor, or my life partner.

What I'm trying to say is that some heterosexual people claim that the problem with gays is that they are too much in your face. (I've never been in my face in my life.) Yet they constantly want to know all about your sex life. They ask if you are married or single. If you say you are single, they want to know if you are seeing someone and if you say no some want to set you up. I tend to keep straights at arms length distance as my sex life is none of their business, and I don't want them to know. But I think it is a hoot when they claim gays are too in-your-face, yet they do everything to find out all about your sex life. What do they want you to say if they have pried it out of you that you aren't seeing a member of the opposite sex? Tell them that you lost your willy during a war injury or traffic accident?

 

[kiba]

women are beautiful ... love them all...end of story

 

[Vail_Indigo]

I can't help but feel that people would be laughing if the question had been "Does it bother you how many guys make out with girls in public?"
The idea is really that bi girls, and girls in general, should keep their sexuality as a shameful secret. To which I say "fuck that."
I think the very idea is a core problem in our society.

 

[RedheadedHaze]

Ahhhh yes, but then again, anyone not subscribing to or following the cultural norm is considered "deviant" anyway.

However, as I just recently summed up on a paper about polyamory:

Much of the civil and human rights legislation, as well as public sentiment, has been influenced by those whose behaviors and actions were originally judged to be in violation of societal law or social convention. Today’s deviance or crime could very well be tomorrow’s accepted behavior.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Ahhhh yes, but then again, anyone not subscribing to or following the cultural norm is considered "deviant" anyway.

However, as I just recently summed up on a paper about polyamory:

Much of the civil and human rights legislation, as well as public sentiment, has been influenced by those whose behaviors and actions were originally judged to be in violation of societal law or social convention. Today’s deviance or crime could very well be tomorrow’s accepted behavior.

sex out of wedlock, interracial marriage, single moms, all horribly deviant, some criminal, not all tha tlong ago.
I love when people start realizing that how other people live isn't any of their business and isn't a problem

 

[GoodDawg70]

If it bothers you then in my opinion it's a "you" problem and certainly not a "them" problem.

 

[RedheadedHaze]

If it bothers you then in my opinion it's a "you" problem and certainly not a "them" problem.

I knew I liked you.

 

[draconus_infernus]

Ahhhh yes, but then again, anyone not subscribing to or following the cultural norm is considered "deviant" anyway.

However, as I just recently summed up on a paper about polyamory:

Much of the civil and human rights legislation, as well as public sentiment, has been influenced by those whose behaviors and actions were originally judged to be in violation of societal law or social convention. Today’s deviance or crime could very well be tomorrow’s accepted behavior.

I knew I liked you!

As for the topic at hand, why should it bother me? To me, gay and bi is perfectly normal. As is polyamory.

 

[NoHair]

Time for my stance on the issue! Yay!!
If you're getting sex, great! Having sex is a great way to express intimacy, have fun, and just kill time. If you're not getting sex, great! Whack off, clear your mind and prostate, and go focus on more pressing issues; chances are you're not getting any because you've got too many other fish to fry anyway. It's just sex. Most of us are not having sex to have children, so it's not so much that men or women think that women or men are disposable, it's that sex is disposable and people are disposable, with a few obvious exceptions.
So don't bemoan the situation, or demonize a group over it, because it's a silly thing to get up in arms about. You have two hands, an imagination, and pages upon pages of my hot naked body to gawk at. Go to town for 20 minutes, jones. Then go find something more worthy of your concern.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Nope, my sister is gay....she dated a couple guys in HS but then stoped. She is the best "wing man" ever. Guys if you can find a gay woman who dosent look like John Goodman make friends with her, if she is cool she will land you plenty of ass in the future.