Dom guilt?

[neonflux]

Neonflux-- Again I realize that it would be easier to appreciate what I do/like as a dom if I'd enjoy the other side too. I feel like an egotist for getting the good part

About verbal humiliation-- that's interesting because I can't do/enjoy that too. That would be a huge limit for me. My sub asked for it but I circumvented it.

btw. did I read about that here or on another board-- about the black sub who did that too and felt release from it in the snse that he could fight against real life racism a lot better (he stopped freezing when people insulted him in real life etc)? That made a lot of sense to me-- Again BDSM is like martial arts there.

Bredon

Hi Bredon, re: feeling like an egotist, I bet there are plenty of subs who feel likethey're getting the good part. I do when I'm bottoming - less work Actually, don't remember where on the boards I read it, or who said it, but someone mentioned recently that the brain doesn't really distinguish between pleasure and pain.

re: using humiliation to deal with racism... I think that while BDSM shouldn't be used as therapy (they devote a whole chapter to this in "Consensual Sadomasochism), it can often be extremely healing. It has been for me in many respects. Neon

 

[Scarlett_t2]

I felt guilt for the first two seconds...then it was gone and I knew. Right then and there. Now I have been apprehensive when my darkest thoughts have surfaced and I was afraid my subs could not handle it. That is when I take a step back, and know I must talk to them about my needs and wants. So to answer your question no. It is not for me to feel guilty it is for them to feel if they do not please me.

Hello again it has been along time.
S

 

[MasterPhoenix]

No guilt whatsoever....

My baby and I are embarking on the journey of a lifetime together, becuase it is what fulfills both of us.

 

[gluttonne]

one more "dom quilt" interpretation here. i may not be an old hippy, but burned out.. yeah, probably.


as to the question posed-i have issues that through mutual love, trust and communication i work out with my girl, who in turn has her own issues. BDSM-type activities really help us confront and make peace with some of our inner demons.

 

[Bredon]

Neon--

Consensual Sadomasochism

Hum? Is that a book?

BDSM-type activities really help us confront and make peace with some of our inner demons.

I agree--

Bredon

 

[neonflux]

Neon--

Hum? Is that a book?



I agree--

Bredon

Hi Bredon, sorry I lost this post and never responded! Yes, it's a book - deals with the communication, psychological, spiritual and ethical aspects of BDSM - the one practical portion is it's review of different techniques/toys and safety considerations with each. Written by a kink-friendly psychiatrist and Sybil Holiday.

You can buy it from the publisher, Daedalus.

Neon

 

[s_red830]

I'd like to discuss that specific guilt (not a general shame about being kinky, I can handle that one ok). The feeling that what you do/like is "not ok" in a moral sense. That you are somehow twisted for wanting things like that-- seeing someone suffer etc.

can anyone relate?

Bredon

I can definitely relate. I have problems bringing out my PYL tendencies and actually training my sub because I've got these ideas of a "healthy relationship" (from all the therapy I've been in), and for the most part, D/s defies these rules, which is unfortunate. That and a combination of being forced to "serve" people's whims and desires in my life (not in a good way), makes it hard for me to actually do what I want to do with my sub.

I'm hoping that that will start to go away once I learn to start trusting myself and letting "not-so-psychologically-kosher" parts of me come out. They're there, I just need to let them go. So yeah. That's my story.

 

[Bredon]

Neon--

Thank you for the link. I'll check out that book. I just bought The New Topping Book by greenery press, and I enjoy it quite a bit, it says a lot about dom guilt and how to handle it-- awfully funny book too

s_red: hey really nice Bound pic that you have in your profile ! I'm glad you can relate and I begin to wonder if this is not even closer related to a feminist/therapist highly pc background than I already thought. I have been so deeply immersed in anti-violence, equality stuff that BDSM is not *quite* the thing to do... well
Also maybe experience with abusiveness on the receiving end makes us feel squeamish (word?) about becoming like an abuser or something? (I certainly have that fear).
The Topping Book says that BDSM is ritualized co-dependancy *giggles* -- there you have your "healthy" relationship-- they say that the normal boundaries of healthy realtionships get overstepped ritualistically in a scene-- makes sense to me somehow-- also that it canbe quite a relief to do that-- not always try so hard to be so damn healthy if you get what I mean --

Bredon

 

[s_red830]

s_red: hey really nice Bound pic that you have in your profile ! I'm glad you can relate and I begin to wonder if this is not even closer related to a feminist/therapist highly pc background than I already thought. I have been so deeply immersed in anti-violence, equality stuff that BDSM is not *quite* the thing to do... well
Also maybe experience with abusiveness on the receiving end makes us feel squeamish (word?) about becoming like an abuser or something? (I certainly have that fear).
The Topping Book says that BDSM is ritualized co-dependancy *giggles* -- there you have your "healthy" relationship-- they say that the normal boundaries of healthy realtionships get overstepped ritualistically in a scene-- makes sense to me somehow-- also that it canbe quite a relief to do that-- not always try so hard to be so damn healthy if you get what I mean --

Bredon

Yeah... my BDSM experiences have given me a different outlook on love, specifically that it doesn't have to be psychologically "kosher." And even though it's not, it doesn't make it any less of a love. Now, don't get me wrong, psychology can help with ways to cope and deal with life and whatnot, but I don't want to be told a certain way to think, thankyouverymuch.

Abuse has definitely played a factor in my hesitation. That's why it's hard for me to do something to my sub that I know he doesn't like... because I've been forced to be submissive to some people in my life, and I don't like it, so it's hard for me to imagine him doing so. Also, the unwillingness factor... it's hard for me to get it out of my mind that it's abuse, even though he doesn't mind, even appreciates the chance he gets to sub.

Ritualized co-dependency... perhaps. It's hard for me to think of it that way and still justify it, because I've been indoctrinated with "healthy relationships" since I was twelve. But, you know, Freud had some crazy ideas about sexuality that most people believe to be untrue today. So let's just hope that today's psychologists get around to that in the future, too.

Long story short: Psychology isn't all that great.

Sorry for the ramble.

 

[Bredon]

rambling is fun

Maye it makes you feel beter to hear that they write hat the "co-dependancy" is only for scenes. In RL they are all for the responsible adult approach.

Bredon

 

[s_red830]

rambling is fun

Maye it makes you feel beter to hear that they write hat the "co-dependancy" is only for scenes. In RL they are all for the responsible adult approach.

Bredon

Mmm, true. What do they say about 24/7 or TPE?

 

[s_red830]

And congrats on your 100th post, Bredon... I believe you can add an avatar now!

 

[Bredon]

red--

I haven't read the whole book yet, but will tell you when I have-- um, what's TPE?
And, oh? Hurray!! Can I? That's nice Have to look around for some nastiness involving suits...

Bredon

 

[s_red830]

red--

I haven't read the whole book yet, but will tell you when I have-- um, what's TPE?
And, oh? Hurray!! Can I? That's nice Have to look around for some nastiness involving suits...

Bredon

TPE = Total Power Exchange. I'm not the greatest person to ask questions about it, but there are some people on this board who are definitely into that.

 

[neonflux]

You're welcome, Bredon - congratulations on the avatar!!! (It's very sexy.) BTW, have read the new topping book and like it a lot...

Neon--

Thank you for the link. I'll check out that book. I just bought The New Topping Book by greenery press, and I enjoy it quite a bit, it says a lot about dom guilt and how to handle it-- awfully funny book too

s_red: hey really nice Bound pic that you have in your profile ! I'm glad you can relate and I begin to wonder if this is not even closer related to a feminist/therapist highly pc background than I already thought. I have been so deeply immersed in anti-violence, equality stuff that BDSM is not *quite* the thing to do... well
Also maybe experience with abusiveness on the receiving end makes us feel squeamish (word?) about becoming like an abuser or something? (I certainly have that fear).
The Topping Book says that BDSM is ritualized co-dependancy *giggles* -- there you have your "healthy" relationship-- they say that the normal boundaries of healthy realtionships get overstepped ritualistically in a scene-- makes sense to me somehow-- also that it canbe quite a relief to do that-- not always try so hard to be so damn healthy if you get what I mean --

Bredon

 

[Netzach]

Yeah... my BDSM experiences have given me a different outlook on love, specifically that it doesn't have to be psychologically "kosher." And even though it's not, it doesn't make it any less of a love. Now, don't get me wrong, psychology can help with ways to cope and deal with life and whatnot, but I don't want to be told a certain way to think, thankyouverymuch.

Abuse has definitely played a factor in my hesitation. That's why it's hard for me to do something to my sub that I know he doesn't like... because I've been forced to be submissive to some people in my life, and I don't like it, so it's hard for me to imagine him doing so. Also, the unwillingness factor... it's hard for me to get it out of my mind that it's abuse, even though he doesn't mind, even appreciates the chance he gets to sub.

Ritualized co-dependency... perhaps. It's hard for me to think of it that way and still justify it, because I've been indoctrinated with "healthy relationships" since I was twelve. But, you know, Freud had some crazy ideas about sexuality that most people believe to be untrue today. So let's just hope that today's psychologists get around to that in the future, too.

Long story short: Psychology isn't all that great.

Sorry for the ramble.

This is something I can relate to really well on the level of Feminist ideology (and no, femdom is not Feminist either, to those wondering) and this kind of weird insistence that your sex life mirror your personal ideology. I find that kind of ludicrous and impossible now - what I've come down to is that there's no way to have a "healthy sexuality" in a patriarchy, so you may as well quit beating yourself up and cope in ways that are pleasureable and hot and consensual.

Before people wonder how I could possibly assert that we're sick, let me throw out this:

so what if we are? Does everything have to be "fixed"
so what if it's not "natural" - does that mean it has to be eradicated?

It's good to have a utopia, it's good to believe in the welfare of the world in a collective way - but it's a very fine line between a utopia and a fascist state.

 

[Bredon]

Netzach--

what I've come down to is that there's no way to have a "healthy sexuality" in a patriarchy, so you may as well quit beating yourself up and cope in ways that are pleasureable and hot and consensual.

That's priceless!!

Your whole post is priceless, & I agree a lot. Getting into that "So what" mindframe a lot more recently--

Bredon

 

[s_red830]

This is something I can relate to really well on the level of Feminist ideology (and no, femdom is not Feminist either, to those wondering) and this kind of weird insistence that your sex life mirror your personal ideology. I find that kind of ludicrous and impossible now - what I've come down to is that there's no way to have a "healthy sexuality" in a patriarchy, so you may as well quit beating yourself up and cope in ways that are pleasureable and hot and consensual.

Before people wonder how I could possibly assert that we're sick, let me throw out this:

so what if we are? Does everything have to be "fixed"
so what if it's not "natural" - does that mean it has to be eradicated?

It's good to have a utopia, it's good to believe in the welfare of the world in a collective way - but it's a very fine line between a utopia and a fascist state.

We may be sick, but we're not broken... and if it ain't broken, don't fix it. We lead functional lives, and that's what counts.

And hey, phones aren't natural... must they be eradicated, too?

Just backing you up.

But are you assuming a matriarchy in place of a patriarchy, or... well, what would take the place of a male-dominated state?

 

[Netzach]

We may be sick, but we're not broken... and if it ain't broken, don't fix it. We lead functional lives, and that's what counts.

And hey, phones aren't natural... must they be eradicated, too?

Just backing you up.

But are you assuming a matriarchy in place of a patriarchy, or... well, what would take the place of a male-dominated state?

No I'm not into the Goddess woo woo thing.

I dunno. World with less oppression, unequal distribution and Lindsey Lohan.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I don't feel guilt as I see and hear the pleasure My sub is getting from this lifestyle that we share. It is her desire to please Me and of course My desire to be lpeased.

If on the other hand I screwed something up in a scene and cause her harm, then I would have a lot of guilt.

 

[s_red830]

No I'm not into the Goddess woo woo thing.

I dunno. World with less oppression, unequal distribution and Lindsey Lohan.

I gotcha. I would be surprised if the "Goddess woo woo" thing really had you going... you seem a little too practical for that, lol.

Agreed, a world with less of those things would be much more of a joy to live in. (And far less worrisome.)