Don't you agree?

[callinectes]

Heh.

Not to speak for him, but there are mind fucks and there's fucking with someone's mind.

I think it seems to me that the bottom in these cases has some general gist of where it's going, nothing is totally out of the blue, and more importantly in this case the rules aren't ever-changing and arbitrary - there's a structure here.

Personally I like both kinds of mind game in their time and place. Just because I do.

That is a valid point. I tend to call anything that messes with my head mind fucks..I guess I'm not down with the vocabulary as much as I should be.

 

[Netzach]

That is a valid point. I tend to call anything that messes with my head mind fucks..I guess I'm not down with the vocabulary as much as I should be.

Oh I don't think you're misusing the jargon, I think the jargon's really limited and not specific at all.

 

[Marquis]

Well all this does is support my theory that the more interesting schism in SM is not between tops and bottoms not between men and women, but between nurture and destruction as impulses.

MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


that's juicy.




*twitch*

 

[Primalex]

They don't?

Nope.

In the myth dude had a mirror.

Yep.

It's about falling in love with the own reflection (so much that it's a mental disorder). Narcism only requires yourself. If you need someone else to bolster your ego, it's the total opposite of narcism (well, the opposite would be someone who hates his own reflection somehow..uhm.. oh well, you get the point.)

 

[Homburg]

Well all this does is support my theory that the more interesting schism in SM is not between tops and bottoms not between men and women, but between nurture and destruction as impulses.

Marquis' response expresses my appreciation for this concept. Damn.

It makes for an interesting way to examine the scene. Hmm.

 

[Primalex]

Well all this does is support my theory that the more interesting schism in SM is not between tops and bottoms not between men and women, but between nurture and destruction as impulses.

Amen.

 

[Netzach]

Nope.



Yep.

It's about falling in love with the own reflection (so much that it's a mental disorder). Narcism only requires yourself. If you need someone else to bolster your ego, it's the total opposite of narcism (well, the opposite would be someone who hates his own reflection somehow..uhm.. oh well, you get the point.)

Gotcha.

I always kind of saw narcissists as people who do have other people around them but are only concerned about them AS extensions of themselves and lose sight of the possibility that they have their own feelings, drives, desires, needs.

Few people go around totally hermetically shut off and more than pleased with themselves - disordered or not.

 

[JMohegan]

I'd say I'm a very physical dominant as well. My suspicion is that you might be physically stronger than I, making the kind of physical domination I have in mind a little easier for you. I'm actually in the best shape of my life, but I've never been... like super strong.

I do notice my enthusiasm for some of the more physical aspects of domination to be increasing along with my bench weight, but I think a fixation on elaborate emotional scheming will always be with me.

I remember reading a story about you fucking a young debutante on a bed of her father's expensive suits. I think you have to admit there is more than a little mindfuck going on there. What made it so memorable for me was this idea of taking a girl away from her (biological) daddy. Girls are so attached to their father's generally that forcing them to choose your needs as more important is well...... holds a lot of erotic potential for me.

I know what you're saying about the mindfuck element in the expensive suit scene, but honestly that's the type of thing that only appears in retrospect for me. There was no planning, no setup, no purposeful psychological ruse.

I like your phrase, "elaborate emotional scheming." That's what I was referring to when I said that I have neither a capacity for, nor an interest in, mindfucks. As you know, there are people who thrive on this sort of thing. But honestly - no false modesty about it - they would be bored out of their minds with a straightforward guy like me.

My sexuality runs on instinct and mood. Really, it's just that basic. When I was sitting in that girl's living room, I wasn't thinking: "How can I take this opportunity to fuck with her mind?" Instead, I just ran with a very predatory idea that popped into my head. The idea of chasing and fucking her body right there in her daddy's house, and what that would mean to *me* in terms of trumping the older guy with the cash.

 

[BiBunny]

*Sigh* Netz, the more of your posts I read, the more I realize how boy-brained my subbie self appears to be. I'm so the opposite of "train me, Daddy" that it's not even funny. Yes, pet me occasionally and stroke the ego when it's needed, but other than that, just use the fuck out of me, please. Maybe I just know some unusual people, but I'm just not like most of the femsubs I know.

Must think about this now while I wait for Kitty to dye my hair and the phone to ring. *Waits for someone to point out the obvious--"You're not like most femsubs you know because you're a fem-switch, dumbass."*

 

[TeachMeSir]

.....

 

[JMohegan]

I was thinking the same thing - that I recall that story, and also a post in the whimsical dominations thread. Something about reciting something perfectly...or singing.

Nods. Don't forget the one where she was ordered to call him a fucking bastard. She called red. IMHO, that qualifies. I think JM is is pulling a mind fuck on us by saying he doesn't do mind fucks.

Ha, ha - you people have excellent memories.

There's a lot that I've done that's just goofin' around, and everything posted on that truly awesome thread falls in that category. All involved understand when what I'm doing is nothing more than a lighthearted game.

 

[BiBunny]

Ha, ha - you people have excellent memories.

LOL, so says the King of the Excellent Memory. I think you have everything anybody's ever said here archived away in your vast brain somewhere.

 

[Netzach]

Ha, ha - you people have excellent memories.

There's a lot that I've done that's just goofin' around, and everything posted on that truly awesome thread falls in that category. All involved understand when what I'm doing is nothing more than a lighthearted game.

It helps if it's really fucking hot, for people to remember it.

 

[callinectes]

It helps if it's really fucking hot, for people to remember it.

Indeed!

 

[JMohegan]

Not to speak for him, but there are mind fucks and there's fucking with someone's mind.

I think it seems to me that the bottom in these cases has some general gist of where it's going, nothing is totally out of the blue, and more importantly in this case the rules aren't ever-changing and arbitrary - there's a structure here.

Even when I'm goofin' around, and especially when I'm not, whatever rules or expectations I have are straightforward and clear. I count on her to do as I ask; she counts on me *not* pulling the rug out from underneath her in the process.

Ever-changing and arbitrary are elements that keep some people on their happy kinky toes, perennially challenged and excited and coming back for more. But ever-changing and arbitrary are *not* elements that would be appreciated or even tolerated by the type of woman who is well-matched with me. This really is a great example of the adage that what one person thrives on would be destructive, even abusive, for another.

 

[JMohegan]

It helps if it's really fucking hot, for people to remember it.

Awwwww - You & BB & Callinectes are makin' me smile!

 

[Netzach]

Even when I'm goofin' around, and especially when I'm not, whatever rules or expectations I have are straightforward and clear. I count on her to do as I ask; she counts on me *not* pulling the rug out from underneath her in the process.

Ever-changing and arbitrary are elements that keep some people on their happy kinky toes, perennially challenged and excited and coming back for more. But ever-changing and arbitrary are *not* elements that would be appreciated or even tolerated by the type of woman who is well-matched with me. This really is a great example of the adage that what one person thrives on would be destructive, even abusive, for another.

Yeah, I have to concur that if it's not *really* clear to me that it's "whatever you do is wrong" hour, and whatever I do is wrong, that's some really fast current you're swimming in, Cowboy.

But some people thrive on weird stuff. Happily for me I get to throw a lot of spitballs.

 

[madetotakeit]

... I just want to be taught what it is that pleases "Him". Just show me. If I learn something about myself from later introspection then good for me. But I don't expect "Him" to give a crap about that beyond the fact that "He" was able to dominate & push me further than I've ever been before for "His" pleasure.

I associate with this way of thinking. I am going to learn things about myself as a natural reaction to anything I go through. That is fine if it is my goal to find out more about myself, but it shouldn't be his goal. It should be a side benefit. All of my life I have been valued for certain qualities and that can get in the way of what I feel I really need. Having myself put first is not what attracts me. What I need is for someone who looks at me and who doesn't see for lack of a better term the human side of me. Look at me as something to do with as wished, exorcise whatever thought or desire he has. Don't do anything because I will derive pleasure from it, but accept that I will find pleasure in the fact that I was used for his pleasure. Sometimes I just need to be looked at as a what my body can provide. Part of doing that however is through the mind fuck. It's fertile ground. Get in there, bring to the surface the part of me that is dormant in everyday life. Disregard everything until the psyche and body are all that remains. By being broken down you can find yourself afterwards feeling more self-aware. To look in the mirror afterwards and say "this is how low I have gone and yet here I am being able to look at myself and be not only okay with what I did or where I went but to feel good about myself for being able to rise above it." That's not something that a Dom can have as a goal, but it is something that I can provide myself as a result.

 

[callinectes]

Even when I'm goofin' around, and especially when I'm not, whatever rules or expectations I have are straightforward and clear. I count on her to do as I ask; she counts on me *not* pulling the rug out from underneath her in the process.

Heh. I need help.... Or for B to come back home today as opposed to next week! I read all kinds of latent hotness in that paragraph.

 

[Netzach]

I associate with this way of thinking. I am going to learn things about myself as a natural reaction to anything I go through. That is fine if it is my goal to find out more about myself, but it shouldn't be his goal. It should be a side benefit. All of my life I have been valued for certain qualities and that can get in the way of what I feel I really need. Having myself put first is not what attracts me. What I need is for someone who looks at me and who doesn't see for lack of a better term the human side of me. Look at me as something to do with as wished, exorcise whatever thought or desire he has. Don't do anything because I will derive pleasure from it, but accept that I will find pleasure in the fact that I was used for his pleasure. Sometimes I just need to be looked at as a what my body can provide. Part of doing that however is through the mind fuck. It's fertile ground. Get in there, bring to the surface the part of me that is dormant in everyday life. Disregard everything until the psyche and body are all that remains. By being broken down you can find yourself afterwards feeling more self-aware. To look in the mirror afterwards and say "this is how low I have gone and yet here I am being able to look at myself and be not only okay with what I did or where I went but to feel good about myself for being able to rise above it." That's not something that a Dom can have as a goal, but it is something that I can provide myself as a result.

That's total gold, this post.

 

[Marquis]

That's total gold, this post.

In-fucking-deed.

 

[Marquis]

Even when I'm goofin' around, and especially when I'm not, whatever rules or expectations I have are straightforward and clear. I count on her to do as I ask; she counts on me *not* pulling the rug out from underneath her in the process.

Ever-changing and arbitrary are elements that keep some people on their happy kinky toes, perennially challenged and excited and coming back for more. But ever-changing and arbitrary are *not* elements that would be appreciated or even tolerated by the type of woman who is well-matched with me. This really is a great example of the adage that what one person thrives on would be destructive, even abusive, for another.

JMo, I think it goes without saying that I have a lot of respect for you, but I'll say it anyway, just in case.

Perhaps that's why I'm often so sensitive to your opinion, but I do feel like I catch a twinge of discomfort on how I do my thing. I think you do your best to present it in egalitarian terms, but if you have an issue I think I could stand to hear it in totality.

Let me at least ask you this. Do you think there is anything that you do, in your relationships, that I might conceive as abusive by my standards?

 

[madetotakeit]

That's total gold, this post.

In-fucking-deed.

Why thank you. Nice to receive compliments from what I consider to be a couple of the better sadistic minds on this board.

 

[Netzach]

I am 100 percent of this: certain things that I do things to H - if I were to turn around and do them to M it would be abuse. Serious dealbreaking abuse of him, his trust and what he's about.

If I treated H as I treat M - same *thing* - it would be ickifying comprimising almost "bad touch" gross for me to coddle him in some of those ways. For HIM, not me.

The issue is finding the appropriate fit with people and honoring it. At least in certain overarching ways - to me it's *totally* abusive to put a certain kind of service minded person in the position of failing you as a kind of amusement to yourself - another personality and it's just erotic icing on the cake. For some people it might be more of a "Jesus, this is boring and stupid" kind of game.

I have to be comfortable with the notion of people finding my behavior with H abusive or pointless, because what trips our trigger is humiliation that verges on the absurd. Not tee hee absurd usually but WTF? absurd - the destabilizing effect and the risk-taking is really a big deal there.

It's fringe eroticism, I can accept that.

 

[Marquis]

I am 100 percent of this: certain things that I do things to H - if I were to turn around and do them to M it would be abuse. Serious dealbreaking abuse of him, his trust and what he's about.

If I treated H as I treat M - same *thing* - it would be ickifying comprimising almost "bad touch" gross for me to coddle him in some of those ways. For HIM, not me.

The issue is finding the appropriate fit with people and honoring it. At least in certain overarching ways - to me it's *totally* abusive to put a certain kind of service minded person in the position of failing you as a kind of amusement to yourself - another personality and it's just erotic icing on the cake. For some people it might be more of a "Jesus, this is boring and stupid" kind of game.

I have to be comfortable with the notion of people finding my behavior with H abusive or pointless, because what trips our trigger is humiliation that verges on the absurd. Not tee hee absurd usually but WTF? absurd - the destabilizing effect and the risk-taking is really a big deal there.

It's fringe eroticism, I can accept that.

Wow, this post was really touching Netz.

I can relate to so much of it and I've always admired your ways of dealing with some of the issues that come to me in my life.