Don't you agree?

[JMohegan]

JMo, I think it goes without saying that I have a lot of respect for you, but I'll say it anyway, just in case.

Perhaps that's why I'm often so sensitive to your opinion, but I do feel like I catch a twinge of discomfort on how I do my thing. I think you do your best to present it in egalitarian terms, but if you have an issue I think I could stand to hear it in totality.

Let me at least ask you this. Do you think there is anything that you do, in your relationships, that I might conceive as abusive by my standards?

No, no, no. ZERO discomfort on how you do your thing. If I had any twinges, I'd come right out and say so. The respect is mutual, man.

I give sincere props to you & your skill by saying I don't have the mental capacity for mindfucks. I don't. Highly functioning abstract thought is a gift that passed me by. I have others, this isn't a pity party, it's just my way of giving credit where it's due.

I started posting on this thread as a response to PT's question about motivation, or rather lack thereof, when it comes to mindfucks. Sometimes I think it's helpful for the general crowd (seen & unseen) to hear that not everybody achieves, or even seeks to achieve, the highest badass standing in the kinky world. This is NOT an attempt to equate badass with abuse in all or any case. Instead, it's just contributing to the general conversation by saying that sometimes it's okay, in fact *more* than okay, to just hang where you are on the lower rungs of the kinky ladder.

As for your question - I have no idea. My observation that what one person thrives on is abuse for another was 100% straight up. To know what would be abusive for your females, I'd have to know them as individuals, which I don't.

 

[JMohegan]

The issue is finding the appropriate fit with people and honoring it.

Yes.

First, last, and always, this is the key.

 

[Marquis]

No, no, no. ZERO discomfort on how you do your thing. If I had any twinges, I'd come right out and say so. The respect is mutual, man.

I give sincere props to you & your skill by saying I don't have the mental capacity for mindfucks. I don't. Highly functioning abstract thought is a gift that passed me by. I have others, this isn't a pity party, it's just my way of giving credit where it's due.

I started posting on this thread as a response to PT's question about motivation, or rather lack thereof, when it comes to mindfucks. Sometimes I think it's helpful for the general crowd (seen & unseen) to hear that not everybody achieves, or even seeks to achieve, the highest badass standing in the kinky world. This is NOT an attempt to equate badass with abuse in all or any case. Instead, it's just contributing to the general conversation by saying that sometimes it's okay, in fact *more* than okay, to just hang where you are on the lower rungs of the kinky ladder.

Cool beans.

As for your question - I have no idea. My observation that what one person thrives on is abuse for another was 100% straight up. To know what would be abusive for your females, I'd have to know them as individuals, which I don't.

I still wonder about this.

Most of my ideas of what actual abuse is comes from those things that I thought of as most painful when dealing with my parents. My father is and always has been a cold bastard, physically. Very standoffish, not into hugs or physical warmth of any kind. It's been almost.... no it has been legitimately traumatizing at points and I wouldn't be that way towards my worst enemy.

My mother was in constant overshare mode, always needing to vent about her unsolvable problems, hoping to feel a little better by making you feel a little worse. I'm trying hard not to be this way, but it is something I still struggle with and I do think of it as abusive.

It's hard for me not to look at my step-father as a horrible, horrible, demonic character, but I'm changing my views on him slowly. My step-father ultimately represented a man with no integrity to me, a shameless user who just felt like the whole world owed him everything and he could do anything he wanted to get it. I'm starting to see him as more sad and stuff, but I still think that a certain level of giving is necessary to keep me from being abusive. It doesn't have to be giving in a cheesy sense, or it can be, I don't care. It's more of a spiritual thing for me, I guess.

 

[JMohegan]

I still wonder about this.

Most of my ideas of what actual abuse is comes from those things that I thought of as most painful when dealing with my parents. My father is and always has been a cold bastard, physically. Very standoffish, not into hugs or physical warmth of any kind. It's been almost.... no it has been legitimately traumatizing at points and I wouldn't be that way towards my worst enemy.

My mother was in constant overshare mode, always needing to vent about her unsolvable problems, hoping to feel a little better by making you feel a little worse. I'm trying hard not to be this way, but it is something I still struggle with and I do think of it as abusive.

It's hard for me not to look at my step-father as a horrible, horrible, demonic character, but I'm changing my views on him slowly. My step-father ultimately represented a man with no integrity to me, a shameless user who just felt like the whole world owed him everything and he could do anything he wanted to get it. I'm starting to see him as more sad and stuff, but I still think that a certain level of giving is necessary to keep me from being abusive. It doesn't have to be giving in a cheesy sense, or it can be, I don't care. It's more of a spiritual thing for me, I guess.

This is a lot to deal with. I'm not gonna pretend to know what it feels like, because I don't. My issue in reconciling kink with my parents comes from the other way around. My mother and father are not perfect, but they are both warm and wonderful. Both abhor violence of any kind, so if I hold up any single thing that I've done as a physical sadist and compare it to them, I'm gonna look like a real abusive bastard.

You can drive yourself crazy with this type of shit. I know, because I've been there. Especially if you're good at basic seduction, roping them in, making them want you, neeeeed you (which I am, and I know you are too) - you can question and second guess and drive yourself batshit insane.

The only real relief came for me in acknowledgment of a partner's happiness. Not always in the moment, every moment, of course - but overall. Happy and thriving with me, happy and thriving in the relationship - that's what it's all about. I only really came to accept myself for who I am when I saw the reflection of myself in a successful relationship.

 

[satindesire]

*Snip*

The only real relief came for me in acknowledgment of a partner's happiness. Not always in the moment, every moment, of course - but overall. Happy and thriving with me, happy and thriving in the relationship - that's what it's all about. I only really came to accept myself for who I am when I saw the reflection of myself in a successful relationship.

Although I've followed this thread around like a lost puppy since it started, I never posted merely because my own viewpoint would be so absurdly different from what Marquis' topic was, that my posts would be either overlooked or scorned.

It could be just my imagining things, but I see a lot of self esteem issues in Marquis, a sort of very well hidden hatred or maybe disgust with himself that could stem from any number of past traumas. From certain things he's posted about his own dealings with bettering himself and his own personal limitations, I believe he has a very idealized version of what Marquis SuperDom is in his head and because his real self, or at least the version he sees in the mirror every day; is so different, there's a level of disappointment there that injures his ability to love himself and then because of that...love other people clearly and cleanly.

Now, although I'm speaking about the man who is the original poster and therefore I understand he'll be reading this, I'm speaking about him in a third person sense to keep my own personal feelings for and/or about him as objective as possible.

I realize I am so, SO young and quite inexperienced, but from what little I have seen in my time in the BDSM world, Doms often get a sense of perceived perfection, a sort of 'high' that you'd get from endorphins when your body sees that you're doing something it likes. It can cloud your judgment sometimes, make you feel ten feet tall and bulletproof, but it can also make you feel infallible. Perfect. Hence, in my opinion, the appeal. To someone who might be so unhappy with the way they are, that 'rush'...that high is the only time they feel happy.

They're driven to more and more extreme or damaging, or selfish acts in order to get that rush. Sometimes they realize that they're using the Sub in ways that isn't good for the sub and stop for a while, but it's a vicious cycle.

"Love of my life, no matter what it looks like it's for you." And I know I'm paraphrasing. But that phrase really stuck out in my mind.

Like a video game you get lost in for hours and look up and suddenly it's four in the morning, you always know in the back of your head that it's a part of you that you enjoy but it's not the WHOLE of you. BDSM feels good. It's what we identify with. But as humans we're so much more complex than a floggee or flogger. That's why I flinched at so many of these responses in this thread. I want equality in my relationship, whether I'm subbing to a man or not.

Even though I identify myself as a Sub, and even though I call my boyfriend Sir here on Literotica...he does NOT identify as a Dom and does not Dominate me. We do NOT have hardly anything BDSM related in our relationship. I defer to him quietly, I submit to him secretly, and I follow his direction as best as I can knowing that the journey I take with him will better me as a human being, whether he's a Dom or not.

But I need a certain level of care and trust and love that isn't betrayed. I need to be used to a certain level. Anything done by a Dom that's so incredibly self serving and hurtful isn't enjoyable anymore, I want to feel like I love him as much as he loves me, no matter what he's doing.

Doms aren't perfect, they're human. And I know we all go through times where we're selfish and we don't care about what other people think. We have to. It's part of growing up. But there's a limit to how much selfishness a sub will stand. I left my ex because of that.

But Marquis, I know you're not just the arrogant paragon of virility you like to say you are. Well, you're certainly virile, but I think you know what I mean.

I know that sometimes you struggle with the idea that you're not actually in control in your relationships, and you fight for that illusion of control by doing and saying these kinds of things.

It's okay to fight to be the Dom you want to be. But please don't forget your subs love you, and they're valuable humans with emotions that really matter. If you lose sight of that, you'll eventually lose them.

Heart ya buddy.

 

[Netzach]

I think that's a really good and well observed post, actually, in an emotional human-mature kind of way.

I just come at it from this POV.

Not everything that most people think is broke has to be fixed.

Some people (subs) DO want inequality, unilateral-ness instead of negotiation, secondary status *as powerfully* as your need to feel equal value, consideration, etc.

Ritual and theatricality are very important to some of us, and very stupid to others of us. For some people anything that "isn't true" is anathema, and for some people things that may seem rote or fake or ritualistic reinforce reality in really grounding ways, through an extreme-looking exaggeration.

 

[Pure]

note to made to

Originally Posted by TeachMeSir
//... I just want to be taught what it is that pleases "Him". Just show me. If I learn something about myself from later introspection then good for me. But I don't expect "Him" to give a crap about that beyond the fact that "He" was able to dominate & push me further than I've ever been before for "His" pleasure. //

MT I associate with this way of thinking. I am going to learn things about myself as a natural reaction to anything I go through. That is fine if it is my goal to find out more about myself, but it shouldn't be his goal. It should be a side benefit. All of my life I have been valued for certain qualities and that can get in the way of what I feel I really need. Having myself put first is not what attracts me. What I need is for someone who looks at me and who doesn't see for lack of a better term the human side of me. Look at me as someth ing to do with as wished, exorcise whatever thought or desire he has. Don't do anything because I will derive pleasure from it, but accept that I will find pleasure in the fact that I was used for his pleasure. Sometimes I just need to be looked at as a what my body can provide. Part of doing that however is through the mind fuck. It's fertile ground. Get in there, bring to the surface the part of me that is dormant in everyday life. Disregard everything until the psyche and body are all that remains. By being broken down you can find yourself afterwards feeling more self-aware. To look in the mirror afterwards and say "this is how low I have gone and yet here I am being able to look at myself and be not only okay with what I did or where I went but to feel good about myself for being able to rise above it." That's not something that a Dom can have as a goal, but it is something that I can provide myself as a result.

nice little post. from being on the bottom, sometimes, i can mostly agree with the spirit of your points. i like your attention to the mindfuck aspect.

What I need is for someone who looks at me and who doesn't see for lack of a better term the human side of me. Look at me as something to do with as wished, exorcise whatever thought or desire he has. Don't do anything because I will derive pleasure from it, but accept that I will find pleasure in the fact that I was used for his pleasure.

in place of "human," i would say, the ''ordinarily seen seen [side]"

exorcise whatever thought or desire he has. Don't do anything because I will derive pleasure from it,

on the last part, yes. as to the desire, it should be noted there is an interaction: it's not just the top saying "oh, this is my desire, i'll do it"; the top sees something, e.g. an area of pride, and then has a desire to 'take the starch out of it."

to have power implies a degree of arbitrariness, but impressing it on another further implies 'sniffing out' vulnerabilities.

in a long term perspective, the top's power is shown in the delight in eliminating the (considered to be) dross, the impurities (refining the ore, to use a metaphor). the mindfuck is that these 'impurities' may well be the most prized parts of oneself.

Don't do anything because I will derive pleasure from it,

i see your point here, in that the top does not in any way 'serve,'
that said, allocating pleasure or lack of it IS the top's job. the allocation of pleasure can well serve the overall objective of abasement as, for instance insisting that the bottom self-pleasure while lying in a pool of his or her own piss.

but accept that I will find pleasure in the fact that I was used for his pleasure.

from the top's POV, sure, sometimes it's straight pleasure (sexual, is what i guess you mean primarily); but there are more refined "pleasures" or delights. even if the simple one of 'seeing the bottom squirm' (in pain, embarrassment or whatever.

"used for his pleasure," of course sounds like a female who's a bottom, wanting to be just a cunt to fuck. from the male side,
"used as a prick only" certainly has its attractions, but other dimensions are there [[e.g. humbled human; degraded human]]. e.g. regarding 'humbling' and the top's efforts and delight in doing so.

the last part of your posting about looking in a mirror is very intriguing and apt. one one picky detail, as to "rising above," i'm not sure.

overall, in case you feel my comments are too picky and detail- focused, the gist of what you say seems to be a request something like the following: see me, abase me, make me a cunt [or a not-even-human receptacle], use for your pleasure and enjoy the thought that my being so abased and used is my pleasure. the core is quite sound, i think, and you express it well.

from a male perspective, the simple substitution of 'prick' for 'cunt' does not quite seem to be enough, though it partly fits. i guess the simplest way to put it is that youre speaking of being a cunt, the rest ignored. in the case of the 'prick' and male bottom, the prick is necessarily a humble [or humiliated] one, and that human (perhaps) male element is retained [bearer of wounded pride]. as stated in the first part of your post, some parts of oneself are cast aside, perhaps severed. the male bottom, i say, is going to continue to feel the wound, the 'severance,' the whole time. [in some sense, the whole person is there.]

the above may not be entirely coherent, but it's my thoughts as far as they go.

 

[Marquis]

I mentioned in another thread how I often feel that doms are analyzed through a pretty limited scope. I think it's natural, because while every dom is different, there are some things that connect all of us and there are also appropriate speculations on those... features.

Yes, the desire to dominate often comes from a place of low self-esteem, but I don't think it comes from this accursed dominant low self-esteem place that we are often attributed with. Rather, it comes from the very normal low self-esteem place that the vast majority of us are subject to on any given day. It's a unique way to cope with that feeling, but a quick anecdote on uniqueness.

The oldest BDSM society in the USA is New York's Eulenspiegel society. Originally founded just for masochists, they used the folk tale of Eulenspiegel as a metaphor for themselves, and an attempt to be understood. Eulenspiegel was a water boy of some sort, if memory serves, who was constantly climbing mountains getting big buckets of water or some shit. The interesting thing is that Eulenspiegel enjoyed the trip up, struggling with huge barrels of water balanced over each shoulder, more than the easier, downhill trip to the river with empty buckets. You see, he could relax on the trip up by thinking about how easy the trip back to the river would be for his second load. But on any trip downhill, he was tormented by the thought of having to go back up again.

It's not a binary kind of thing, but some people really work backwards like that, in a lot of ways. I offer this example not to patronize, but to emphasize.

Why?

Because it's important to me that those of you who have taken the time to be able to understand me get a chance to experience the real deal. The truth is, I want the same thing from each of you and I know you only get what you give in life.

It's important to me that my friends understand how much I love my subs. It's important for me that they can read this, and know that is something I can explain to other people, without falling prey to the insecurities that my romantic situation begs me to accept. I don't accept them, I reject them.

I don't want you guys thinking I'm arrogant or suffer from low self-esteem. I know that I don't always present a pretty picture of myself, but that is my best attempt at humility. I'm not a humble person, it's true, but I've always believed that to whom is given much, much is owed. I was lucky to receive a lot of privilege in my life. I wasn't born into money or the perfect family situation. I've had tragedies in my life that haunt my sleep to this day. I've made mistakes that I can never take back. I've grown past them and had new tragedies, new mistakes, but I keep going.

I'm at an interesting point in my life right now. I have the love of two amazing women, in a way that I never expected to be possible. They support me emotionally, financially, artistically, morally. They inspire me and challenge me, they surprise me daily. With all the challenges and responsibilities I bring to their table, neither of them have ever abandoned me or rejected me. They have never refused to put in the effort to make this relationship work, they have never threatened me or held me to ultimatums. Neither of them has ever said no to me, when asked for anything they're capable of giving.

When I was 21, I signed an out of court settlement for almost a quarter million dollars. I didn't grew up wealthy. There were times where I was downright poor. The experience was surreal, but by the time I was 23 my net worth was almost 50% greater. Unfortunately, at 25 I'm deep deep in the red. Money that comes quick goes quick, they say. What I do have, I believe, is an understanding of wealth that the VAST majority of people my age, from my background, don't have. They say you can give a poor person a million dollars and they'll be broke in a few years. But a person who understands wealth can lose everything and get it all back in no time.

OK, let me wrap this up before it becomes unbelievable. I got really lucky in life. I continue to get lucky on a regular basis. I'm not a religious person, but I do think it's ok to be unabashedly thankful to a nebulous omnipresence.

Sometimes.

 

[satindesire]

I think that's a really good and well observed post, actually, in an emotional human-mature kind of way.

I just come at it from this POV.

Not everything that most people think is broke has to be fixed.

Some people (subs) DO want inequality, unilateral-ness instead of negotiation, secondary status *as powerfully* as your need to feel equal value, consideration, etc.

Ritual and theatricality are very important to some of us, and very stupid to others of us. For some people anything that "isn't true" is anathema, and for some people things that may seem rote or fake or ritualistic reinforce reality in really grounding ways, through an extreme-looking exaggeration.

My biggest personal limitation and struggle with self improvement comes from seeing things like this through other people's eyes. If I could say it was my biggest flaw, I would, but I think my lacking cooking skills take first prize. But I digress.

Thank you for responding to my post without being judgmental. I was really afraid of that, and it was the reason why I kept from posting for so long.

You're right, I know, inequality and unfairness has just as much place in the BDSM world as anything else, but were I to seek such a relationship it would smack of unhealthiness in my own life. Therefore, when I see such things outside of my own relationship, my opinions are tainted by what -I- would feel in such situations.

My largest hurdle in becoming a Psychologist will be to approach everyone from a neutral base. I'm still learning to turn off my emotions and just think.



Edited to add: Embarrassingly enough, I think so far after re reading the post I wrote, I'm still not very good at it.

I'm really sorry if I offended you Marquis.

 

[Marquis]

I'm really sorry if I offended you Marquis.

Not at all, SatinD.

 

[BiBunny]

The oldest BDSM society in the USA is New York's Eulenspiegel society. Originally founded just for masochists, they used the folk tale of Eulenspiegel as a metaphor for themselves, and an attempt to be understood. Eulenspiegel was a water boy of some sort, if memory serves, who was constantly climbing mountains getting big buckets of water or some shit. The interesting thing is that Eulenspiegel enjoyed the trip up, struggling with huge barrels of water balanced over each shoulder, more than the easier, downhill trip to the river with empty buckets. You see, he could relax on the trip up by thinking about how easy the trip back to the river would be for his second load. But on any trip downhill, he was tormented by the thought of having to go back up again.

It's not a binary kind of thing, but some people really work backwards like that, in a lot of ways. I offer this example not to patronize, but to emphasize.

I just wanted to quote this part to re-emphasize it. I see a whole lot of myself in this metaphor. I'd say more, but I don't wanna hijack the thread.

 

[Homburg]

I don't want you guys thinking I'm arrogant or suffer from low self-esteem. I know that I don't always present a pretty picture of myself, but that is my best attempt at humility. I'm not a humble person, it's true, but I've always believed that to whom is given much, much is owed.

This is why I enjoy reading your posts, Marquis. There are many times I disagree with your content or presentation, but there is something worth reading nonetheless.

When Satindesire made her post referring to the assumed perfection that is attached (as a negative) to the stereotypical dominant, I could not help but muse that the vast majority of dominants posting to this specific thread were, by nature, imperfect, and willing to admit to it. I would not call that a "best attempt at humility". I would just call it humility. Maybe not to extent that the Meek show humility, but goodness knows we are not meek people.

 

[Marquis]

Maybe not to extent that the Meek show humility, but goodness knows we are not meek people.

Ha ha, I like this.

Thanks for the compliment man.

 

[Homburg]

Ha ha, I like this.

Thanks for the compliment man.

Any time, Marquis.

 

[intothewoods]

Any time, Marquis.

Why don't you two get a fucking room. But let me watch.

 

[Homburg]

Why don't you two get a fucking room. But let me watch.

Because I am not your dancing monkey. I will, however, gladly spank the sass outta yer ass. It might take a while, but I'm willing to do it on account of how much I like you.

 

[intothewoods]

Because I am not your dancing monkey. I will, however, gladly spank the sass outta yer ass. It might take a while, but I'm willing to do it on account of how much I like you.

It is impossible to spank the sass outta my ass. Many have tried. None have succeeded.

 

[intothewoods]

Because I am not your dancing monkey. I will, however, gladly spank the sass outta yer ass. It might take a while, but I'm willing to do it on account of how much I like you.

And you ARE my dancing monkey. Mwah ha hah hahha.

If I got both you and Marquis to do my bidding, I'd be like the bitchin'est non-sub evah.

Don't mind me. I'm talking nonsense. SHUT UP HOMBURG. I do not.

 

[Homburg]

It is impossible to spank the sass outta my ass. Many have tried. None have succeeded.

And you ARE my dancing monkey. Mwah ha hah hahha.

If I got both you and Marquis to do my bidding, I'd be like the bitchin'est non-sub evah.

Don't mind me. I'm talking nonsense. SHUT UP HOMBURG. I do not.

Someone is expressing her inner bag lady.

 

[Perfect_Trust]

Originally posted by JMohegan
This is like asking: If he loves me so much, why won't he write beautiful love poetry to express his feelings for me? If your mate is Robert Browning, that would be a very good question! But what if he's an average guy - with neither a capacity for, nor an interest in, composing poems? Then a much better question would be: How does this individual express himself?

True... now looking for a poet who writes a blinding mindfuck

I have neither the capacity for, nor an interest in, mindfucks. I am a straightforward, literal, concrete, tangible kind of a guy. This orientation has a major impact on all aspects of my interpersonal relations, including my sadism, which expresses itself in a physical way.

Phyiscal is good too, but when you have someone who is more than capable of exerting the physical but chooses not to do so and comes out with some crap like 'Why do you/we never...?' then my brain starts thinking 'Well why the fuck dont you MAKE me?'

 

[madetotakeit]

...on the last part, yes. as to the desire, it should be noted there is an interaction: it's not just the top saying "oh, this is my desire, i'll do it"; the top sees something, e.g. an area of pride, and then has a desire to 'take the starch out of it."

to have power implies a degree of arbitrariness, but impressing it on another further implies 'sniffing out' vulnerabilities.

Interaction is very important. Without building a rapport, without taking the time to get inside the others head it is impossible to truly have power over them. Otherwise it is just topping which, while does have its place and appeals, is not as fulfilling to me. He has to be in my head enough for me to want to be submissive to him. Then and only then if he has the ability can he "sniff out the vulnerabilities" which is so vital.

in a long term perspective, the top's power is shown in the delight in eliminating the (considered to be) dross, the impurities (refining the ore, to use a metaphor). the mindfuck is that these 'impurities' may well be the most prized parts of oneself...

I agree. From a young age I was lauded for my intelligence, for doing the "right" thing, for my consideration, for being level headed and calm. Since there was positive reinforcement, I honed those characteristics. Those are things I consider to be my human side. I need someone who is strong enough to see past those parts of me. To revel in the contradictions of being with someone who possesses these characteristics but he is able to on occasion bring me to a place where they don't exist. As if to say, "I know these are here but they do not matter." The person with the ability to see past what everyone else sees provides the freedom my mind needs from everyones (including my own) expectations.

from the top's POV, sure, sometimes it's straight pleasure (sexual, is what i guess you mean primarily); but there are more refined "pleasures" or delights. even if the simple one of 'seeing the bottom squirm' (in pain, embarrassment or whatever...

"used for his pleasure," of course sounds like a female who's a bottom, wanting to be just a cunt to fuck...

While yes, at times the simply sexual does have its draw, but that is certainly not the only way one can be used for pleasure. As I said, bottoming has its place and can be completely fulfilling for some. The sexual is only one part of it. Play with my psyche, inflict pain, humiliate, and yes fuck me...not because it is what I want (it should be understood that I do), but because whatever is done at that moment fills a need he has.

[in some sense, the whole person is there.]

The whole person is there, is always there. That is part of the power of removing or dismissing those parts that are so easily seen others. By knowing they are there but not accessing them the comfortable identity is removed. Therein lies true vulnerability. The person who can see beyond those things is seeing the whole me.

 

[Pure]

thanks, made to,

your comments are interesting.

pure //the top's power is shown in the delight in eliminating the (considered to be) dross, the impurities (refining the ore, to use a metaphor). the mindfuck is that these 'impurities' may well be the most prized parts of oneself... //

made to I agree. From a young age I was lauded for my intelligence, for doing the "right" thing, for my consideration, for being level headed and calm. Since there was positive reinforcement, I honed those characteristics. Those are things I consider to be my human side. I need someone who is strong enough to see past those parts of me. To revel in the contradictions of being with someone who possesses these characteristics but he is able to on occasion bring me to a place where they don't exist. As if to say, "I know these are here but they do not matter." The person with the ability to see past what everyone else sees provides the freedom my mind needs from everyones (including my own) expectations.

yes, i think there is a freedom, and a sense of relief. that said, the process of *being freed* from valued parts--or perceived vital components-- of self is going to be difficult. the bottom is often NOT going to see the long view, the possible new shape made to suit the top.


Pure: //[in some sense, the whole person is there.] //

The whole person is there, is always there. That is part of the power of removing or dismissing those parts that are so easily seen others. By knowing they are there but not accessing them the comfortable identity is removed. Therein lies true vulnerability. The person who can see beyond those things is seeing the whole me.

i think you have a point. in some sense the female bottom reduced to 'cunt' is still there, as is the male bottom reduced to 'prick'.

i was trying not very successfully to capture what might be a common gender difference. perhaps it's alluded to in your previous statement:

Look at me as something to do with as wished, exorcise whatever thought or desire he has. Don't do anything because I will derive pleasure from it, but accept that I will find pleasure in the fact that I was used for his pleasure. Sometimes I just need to be looked at as a what my body can provide.

i was suggesting that perhaps. the 'body for his pleasure' experience is LESS of a shock, or at any rate, a different sort of mindfuck for the female bottom, than the analogous event for the male bottom. i don't know you personally, but the way i see it, "admired object" is something that has general appeal to many women. hence it's LESS of a shock, what you describe for this sort of person. the male of our culture is the agent, the fucker. the loss of this, even in an episode, is in my experience, quite a serious shock.

 

[La Kajira]

I think that the mental part of the D/s relationship is the part that keeps me coming back, time and again- the rest is all interesting but for a Dom to spend so much time plotting to undo you...

To be the center of so much attention? Just... wow... nice dreams there.

*shivers*

 

[twysted73]

Why don't you two get a fucking room. But let me watch.

omFg I was JUST thinking that. Started to look around for the crew of "Doms gone wild"


*can't stop laughing*

 

[faeriefire]

<snip...> then if he has the ability can he "sniff out the vulnerabilities" which is so vital. I agree. From a young age I was lauded for my intelligence, for doing the "right" thing, for my consideration, for being level headed and calm. Since there was positive reinforcement, I honed those characteristics. Those are things I consider to be my human side. I need someone who is strong enough to see past those parts of me. To revel in the contradictions of being with someone who possesses these characteristics but he is able to on occasion bring me to a place where they don't exist. As if to say, "I know these are here but they do not matter." The person with the ability to see past what everyone else sees provides the freedom my mind needs from everyones (including my own) expectations. <...snip...> The whole person is there, is always there. That is part of the power of removing or dismissing those parts that are so easily seen by others. By knowing they are there but not accessing them the comfortable identity is removed. Therein lies true vulnerability. The person who can see beyond those things is seeing the whole me.

Yes!!! Until all of me is exposed, well, I'm not really vulnerable. It's overwhelming when he knows me better than I know myself. He'll say you acted like xyz for this reason...and my gut reaction is uhuh...and then I think about it and realize he gets me and sees right through to the truth I don't want to admit. It strips me to the core and so I can give everything without any veils or shadows to hide behind. It is both vulnerability and freedom. No lies or deciet, just an unexpected truth that shines through and proves once more that I belong to him