Embarrassment

[A Desert Rose]

still mulling this over...

I understand what you mean by submission lowering the level of embarrassment. But I still come back to it being imperfections in me that would cause disappointment from my Dom.

Speaking hypothetically, I know in my mind that if I submit completely and my Dom accepts that gift, he does so by accepting my imperfections, too. But another part of me worries that those blemishes I have will be unappealing to him.

Ah, call me a goofball, just spell my name right LOL

Rose

 

[artful]

Re: still mulling this over...

Ah, call me a goofball, just spell my name right LOL

Rose

My name right.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: still mulling this over...

My name right.

You do make me giggle, BigDog.
Rose

 

[Guest]

Re: still mulling this over...

Ah, call me a goofball, just spell my name right LOL

Rose

You're not a goofball, darlin'. You're a self serving, sniveling, wannabe sub.

 

[Desdemona]

Re: Re: still mulling this over...

You're not a goofball, darlin'. You're a self serving, sniveling, wannabe sub.

Looks like somebody is threatened. Well Rose, is this your first official troll? If so, congrats I guess.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: still mulling this over...

I understand what you mean by submission lowering the level of embarrassment. But I still come back to it being imperfections in me that would cause disappointment from my Dom.

Speaking hypothetically, I know in my mind that if I submit completely and my Dom accepts that gift, he does so by accepting my imperfections, too. But another part of me worries that those blemishes I have will be unappealing to him.



Rose

Perhaps it is those very blemishes that would attract His Domination for in them He may see additional ways to mold you to His perfection?

 

[Ebonyfire]

Bad Embarrassment = Humiliation?

Do you think that bad embarrassment equals humiliation?

Eb

 

[CarolineOh]

Re: Re: still mulling this over...

Perhaps it is those very blemishes that would attract His Domination for in them He may see additional ways to mold you to His perfection?

That's an interesting perspective. May I ask, to what extent do you think a Dominant has an ethical right to try to change a submissive? I don't mean tailor their behavior, but actually try to change the submissive's personality?
Are there limits to how much you feel you have a right to change?

 

[WillowPuss]

Re: Bad Embarrassment = Humiliation?

Do you think that bad embarrassment equals humiliation?

Eb

Yes, sorta.

You know, when I was about to click on the email link to bring me to this thread - a thought of 'I hope nobody ridicules my post' sprang to mind.

Perhaps the bad embarrassment/humiliation is because someone feels ridiculed?

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: Re: still mulling this over...

That's an interesting perspective. May I ask, to what extent do you think a Dominant has an ethical right to try to change a submissive? I don't mean tailor their behavior, but actually try to change the submissive's personality?
Are there limits to how much you feel you have a right to change?

I think they have not only the right but the obligation to change those aspects of the personality that are damaging to the self esteem and positive progress of the submissive.

Example being...a submissive is in a very public position in his career, he is well known in his field of expertise in several corners of the world. he is an intellectual thats teaches and guides artistically as well as in the field of technology. he has incredible charisma UNTIL he becomes disappointed with dishonesty..he doesn't understand dishonesty and so does not have the told to fight it in the business world. This submissive man breaks down in tears and yelling at the top of his lungs in frustration at a business meeting amongst his peers.

The Dominant could say ok..his personality is sweet and naive..how wonderful! and yes it is wonderful and sweet..in its proper place. She could say..never mind..its ok...BUT if She really cares about the long term developement of Her toy She will sit him down and explain WHY She will begin to remold this part of his personality.

She will explain that it is not because this side of him is a weakness nor unattractive to her..the sweet naive vulnerability BUT that it is a weakness that could destroy his credibility in the business world. She wants him to grow in pride and so She will teach him how to be strong when he needs to be and separate his submissive personality from his business persona.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: Bad Embarrassment = Humiliation?

Yes, sorta.

You know, when I was about to click on the email link to bring me to this thread - a thought of 'I hope nobody ridicules my post' sprang to mind.

Perhaps the bad embarrassment/humiliation is because someone feels ridiculed?

you have yet to post to a thread that I have read that demands anything but My respect willow

 

[CarolineOh]

Re: Re: Re: Re: still mulling this over...

I think they have not only the right but the obligation to change those aspects of the personality that are damaging to the self esteem and positive progress of the submissive.

Example being...a submissive is in a very public position in his career, he is well known in his field of expertise in several corners of the world. he is an intellectual thats teaches and guides artistically as well as in the field of technology. he has incredible charisma UNTIL he becomes disappointed with dishonesty..he doesn't understand dishonesty and so does not have the told to fight it in the business world. This submissive man breaks down in tears and yelling at the top of his lungs in frustration at a business meeting amongst his peers.

The Dominant could say ok..his personality is sweet and naive..how wonderful! and yes it is wonderful and sweet..in its proper place. She could say..never mind..its ok...BUT if She really cares about the long term developement of Her toy She will sit him down and explain WHY She will begin to remold this part of his personality.

She will explain that it is not because this side of him is a weakness nor unattractive to her..the sweet naive vulnerability BUT that it is a weakness that could destroy his credibility in the business world. She wants him to grow in pride and so She will teach him how to be strong when he needs to be and separate his submissive personality from his business persona.

Thank you. That's a fine example and I believe it makes your thoughts quite clear.
What I am still wondering, though, is if you feel there is a part of who that submissive is that is, and perhaps ought to be, beyond your reach, and if so, how do you identify where your reach properly ends, and the autonomous part of the submissive begins?
Perhaps what I am grasping for is not well expressed, if so I will try to reformulate my thoughts and discuss this later, as I must be off to work.
Thank you, Shadowsdream, for all the food for thought you have provided this morning.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: still mulling this over...

Thank you. That's a fine example and I believe it makes your thoughts quite clear.
What I am still wondering, though, is if you feel there is a part of who that submissive is that is, and perhaps ought to be, beyond your reach, and if so, how do you identify where your reach properly ends, and the autonomous part of the submissive begins?
Perhaps what I am grasping for is not well expressed, if so I will try to reformulate my thoughts and discuss this later, as I must be off to work.
Thank you, Shadowsdream, for all the food for thought you have provided this morning.

O yes I truly believe that the bulk of the personality is off limits for it is the personality that sparked the flame that became the magic between Domination and submission.

I believe whole heartedly that to mold the structure of who one is will take away the essense of the one I was attracted to in the beginning. Not an iota of personality should be tampered with that isn't necessary for the happiness and positive growth that the submissive seeks him/herself.

It is My responsibility to assist My slave to be all he can be without making him less than he was. I hope that makes a little sense and look forward to continuing this conversation with you.

 

[spankableBelle]

Eb, I was beyond embarrassed when I finally acknowledged the fact that I had these needs. I was appalled. My husband of many years told me I was perverse. A few of my friends wanted me to go into therapy to "get over my obvious need to be abused".

I didn't begin to feel better about myself until I actually acted on these needs and got a taste of how it feels to submit.

i, too, was embarrassed when i told hubby and friends about this 'me' that had been buried for so long. i was told, and offers were made to help me get into counseling for my perverse desires and needs... i was embarrassed when i told hubby of my having been with a woman prior to our marriage, and that i ENJOYED it, loved it...would wish to do so again and he flat out looked at me and was disgusted...i was embarrassed when i wrote my first erotic story for him and handed it over, printed beautifully and with class only to have him never read another word i'd written since...embarrassed when i realized that i had made a terrible mistake and have lost ten years of my life...

i get embarrassed when i find something new about my perversity...when i find something new that shocks me, astounds me, and arouses me...when He (Soron) realized that i was a very naughty, nasty, raunchy, perverted girl...when He smiles at my blushes of His acknowledgement...embarrassed when a limit is pushed...proud when it is it met and surpassed...embarrassed with being praised...at peace when work and learning begins again...

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: still mulling this over...

O yes I truly believe that the bulk of the personality is off limits for it is the personality that sparked the flame that became the magic between Domination and submission.

I believe whole heartedly that to mold the structure of who one is will take away the essense of the one I was attracted to in the beginning. Not an iota of personality should be tampered with that isn't necessary for the happiness and positive growth that the submissive seeks him/herself.

It is My responsibility to assist My slave to be all he can be without making him less than he was. I hope that makes a little sense and look forward to continuing this conversation with you.

I firmly agree. To tamper with something that is not an aspect relating to the increased growth of the submissive is abuse. And, when doing any molding, it is imperative that the Dominant know exactly what he or she is doing by taking it slowly, making sure that whatever he or she is doing is necessary an dnot just some power trip.

Eb

 

[CarolineOh]

Thank you Shadowsdream, and Ebony, for your very thoughtful answers to my question.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Bad Embarrassment = Humiliation?

Yes, sorta.

You know, when I was about to click on the email link to bring me to this thread - a thought of 'I hope nobody ridicules my post' sprang to mind.

Perhaps the bad embarrassment/humiliation is because someone feels ridiculed?

Not in my thread. NO ridicule for anyone.

Eb

 

[James Blandings]

I've been thinking this over, and I'd like to throw out a thought and see what you all think.
I think embarrassment and humiliation are different degrees of the same thing, and shame is something different.

My reasoning is: embarrassment and humiliation come from within a person themselves, while shame is imposed on them from outside.

That's a theory I'm chewing on, anyway.

 

[artful]

JB

I've been thinking this over, and I'd like to throw out a thought and see what you all think.
I think embarrassment and humiliation are different degrees of the same thing, and shame is something different.

My reasoning is: embarrassment and humiliation come from within a person themselves, while shame is imposed on them from outside.

That's a theory I'm chewing on, anyway.

I chewed on that VERY concept for years,...and I am not saying it is wrong, but I think ALL 3 emotions come from within the person so affected, and there are ONLY degrees of intensity that separate the words.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Re: JB

I chewed on that VERY concept for years,...and I am not saying it is wrong, but I think ALL 3 emotions come from within the person so affected, and there are ONLY degrees of intensity that separate the words.

I'll put for the premise that embarassment, humiliation, and shame all come from without. They are taught to us by others. If you look at small childern and see how they act and interact with other childern... you will never see shame, or embarassment, or humiliation.

As a child grows up, they learn the meaning of these things the hard way (i.e., shame from a parents punishment, embarassment from other childern laughing at them, humiliation when they've lost at a sport or event). In a perfect world, we would never know the meaning of these three worlds, nor experience them first hand.

Just my 3 1/2 cents...

PBW

 

[artful]

PB

I will just state that, yes,...they are LEARNED emotions. Depending on childrens environmental and or social interacting, (how actions are PERCEIVED), has much to do with how they are affected by ANY event. None of us are BORN with it, but I think it is ACQUIRED,...and held within EACH of us.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I've been thinking this over, and I'd like to throw out a thought and see what you all think.
I think embarrassment and humiliation are different degrees of the same thing, and shame is something different.

My reasoning is: embarrassment and humiliation come from within a person themselves, while shame is imposed on them from outside.

That's a theory I'm chewing on, anyway.

I definitely agree that shame is imposed from outside.

But I also think that humiliation can be used as a tool to control a person so that the end result is shame. Hell if I know if that makes sense.

Eb

 

[WillowPuss]

I definitely agree that shame is imposed from outside.

But I also think that humiliation can be used as a tool to control a person so that the end result is shame. Hell if I know if that makes sense.

Eb

Makes sense to me!

The repeated use of humiliation, I believe, will eventually lead to shame.
And, yes, many times, it is a control tool - even if those who use it do not fully realise what it is they are doing.

 

[Ebonyfire]

An example

A parent has a child who is a bed wetter; and no matter what he/she does, it continues.

So the parent hangs the child's soiled bed linen outside their bedroom window. This is humiliating because all the child's friends and acquaintances know whose bedroom it is.

The parent rationalizes that it is for his/her own good. The humiliation will induce shame, which in turn will cause the bedwetting to stop.

Ebony

 

[CutieMouse]

Interesting bumpage of the day...