Ethics and "perverted justice"

[catalina_francisco]

This is to me a very difficult thread for a variety of reasons, but most importantly because of my work. I have said it before, so I will say it again. I am a computer forensic specialist, or in corporate language an internet security consultant.

Part of my work is to police the internet. I have helped hunting down child molesters and I have reported potential child molesters to the authorities. I have worked together with internet groups who spent hours and hours hunting down child pornographic sites and child molesters.

The main difference between the groups I have worked with and the group described in the thread by Pure is the black list. I feel publicly blacklisting people is going too far, especially if there is no official police organisation connected to it. On first sight it looks like a group of ethically involved persons, but the questions remains of course if they have the right to take the law into their own hands and who is checking up on what they say or do?

The FBI in the USA has a very good reputation in hunting down child molesters over the internet and does incredibly good work in combination with lots of internet groups that work together with them. I can tell you that they put a lot more hours into it than is actually known.

If you encounter child molesters on the internet or if you encounter child pornography sites you should report them to the FBI (even if it is a non US site) and leave it up to them.

If you find any site that has child pornography you can report it at:
http://www.asacp.org/

Francisco.

 

[A Desert Rose]

They are anonymous. They have 'elected' themselves to judge and mete out justice to 'potential' offenders, as 'they' see fit to do it.

Do the words Star Chamber ring a bell with anyone?

Francisco's post is on target, in my opinion.

 

[Ebonyfire]

This is to me a very difficult thread for a variety of reasons, but most importantly because of my work. I have said it before, so I will say it again. I am a computer forensic specialist, or in corporate language an internet security consultant.

Part of my work is to police the internet. I have helped hunting down child molesters and I have reported potential child molesters to the authorities. I have worked together with internet groups who spent hours and hours hunting down child pornographic sites and child molesters.

The main difference between the groups I have worked with and the group described in the thread by Pure is the black list. I feel publicly blacklisting people is going too far, especially if there is no official police organisation connected to it. On first sight it looks like a group of ethically involved persons, but the questions remains of course if they have the right to take the law into their own hands and who is checking up on what they say or do?

The FBI in the USA has a very good reputation in hunting down child molesters over the internet and does incredibly good work in combination with lots of internet groups that work together with them. I can tell you that they put a lot more hours into it than is actually known.

If you encounter child molesters on the internet or if you encounter child pornography sites you should report them to the FBI (even if it is a non US site) and leave it up to them.

If you find any site that has child pornography you can report it at:
http://www.asacp.org/

Francisco.

Great info.

 

[Never]

Pure:
"Here's a simple extension of the method: perhaps does anyone find it makes them uncomfortable? A crusader against BDSM, starts at literotica, and looks for playmates. S/he goes into ICQ or IM as soon as possible for live chats (logged) and tries for phone contact and a picture. They then post the picture and transcripts of the "wannabe BDSM pervert" on the 'net.

J."

No, it doesn't make me uncomfortable. If you give someone your name, phone number, and photo the first time you IM them then you are lucky if the worst thing that happens to you is being 'exposed' as someone into BDSM.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Ethics and "perverted justice"

Pure:
"Here's a simple extension of the method: perhaps does anyone find it makes them uncomfortable? A crusader against BDSM, starts at literotica, and looks for playmates. S/he goes into ICQ or IM as soon as possible for live chats (logged) and tries for phone contact and a picture. They then post the picture and transcripts of the "wannabe BDSM pervert" on the 'net.

J."

No, it doesn't make me uncomfortable. If you give someone your name, phone number, and photo the first time you IM them then you are lucky if the worst thing that happens to you is being 'exposed' as someone into BDSM.

Exactly.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Not to criticize, but i would hope most of us would take things nice and slow.

i understand one has to make a leap of faith at one point, or another. You do have to give trust.

Time ... what a bitch in high heels.

 

[WriterDom]

I'm confused is pure grainman42 or lonelyone69692003

 

[Never]

I think Pure was submissivesubbitch4u. I saw right through her though as the third thing she posted was "sex?".

The only woman I know who's that desperate is me.

 

[D's mariposa]

i am, and always will be.

They won't need a ziploc bag and spatula.

The individual in question gets a 24 hour grace period to turn themselves into the police. After that, all bets are off.

i'll start with piano wire and a pair of tin snips. i'll move on to medieval after that.

24 hours? You're more generous than I am. I might, might, give them a 5 minute head start..

 

[AngelicAssassin]

24 hours? You're more generous than I am. I might, might, give them a 5 minute head start..

and have them miss all the "oh shit, he's coming for me," anxiety? i'd rather have the individual in question suffer 24 hours of sleepless agony to make up for the nightmares they gave my child for the rest of her life. Call the mindfuck an appetizer of things to come. Give some enough rope, and they hang themselves, figuratively as well as literally. Granted, some of the satisfaction disappears, but then we don't have to worry about court costs on either side of the fence, and one more waste of oxygen has departed the land of the living.

 

[Ebonyfire]

24 hours? You're more generous than I am. I might, might, give them a 5 minute head start..

I would just jump him and send him to glory.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I do not feel it is smart or correct to take justice into your own hands. We have official organisations for that, like the police and justice system. It is all very understandable, and if put in a situation like that I do not know if I could remain cool and not do exactly that which many of you describe.

But there are many reasons why you should leave it up to the justice system.

1) For example what if you are hunting down an innocent person, and that has happened a lot.
2) They need to be professionally interrogated to see if there are contacts with other possible offenders.
3) Evidence leading to other victims might be destroyed.

And these are just a couple of reasons. In the western world, though not infallible, we have a good working justice system that has been put in place to make sure we do not make mistakes that lynching mobs have made so often in the past. Leave it up to them.

Now what their punishment should be is something different, although a strong advocate against the death penalty, I make an exception for child molesters who are guilty without doubt. In my eyes there is nothing more disgusting and amoral.

Francisco.

 

[scarlet vixen]

Francisco said

"Now what their (molesters) punishment should be is something different, although a strong advocate against the death penalty, I make an exception for child molesters who are guilty without doubt. "

A most unwise proposal, my friend. It would simply insure that every molester would kill his victim.

SV

 

[scarlet vixen]

A desert rose

"Do the words Star Chamber ring a bell with anyone?"

I guess not.

Pity.

SV.

PS. was that something to do with Ringo?

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Francisco said

"Now what their (molesters) punishment should be is something different, although a strong advocate against the death penalty, I make an exception for child molesters who are guilty without doubt. "

A most unwise proposal, my friend. It would simply insure that every molester would kill his victim.

SV

au contraire ... just put them in the general population, and let them take care of the problem.

The state doesn't have to spend money on numerous appeals to a death sentence, and the sorry fucks get exactly what's coming to them.

 

[Ebonyfire]

au contraire ... just put them in the general population, and let them take care of the problem.

The state doesn't have to spend money on numerous appeals to a death sentence, and the sorry fucks get exactly what's coming to them.

They already do, Francisco.

If you look at the the recent cases, if the first victim is not killed, then most assuredly the second is.

Pedophilia has a very low (if at all) cure rate, and so most kill their victims after the first so they won't have a witness.

Also, there are far too many cases that slip through the cracks. If you look at the most famous cases, they show that they were mishandled, in that the perpetrator was allowed to walk, and he then chose to kill his victim rather than have a witness to testify against him.

My morality says kill the muthas!

 

[AngelicAssassin]

My morality says kill the muthas!

Chuckling ... you snuck this in later didn't you?

With your hands, or those of another?

 

[Ebonyfire]

Chuckling ... you snuck this in later didn't you?

With your hands, or those of another?

with My own dainty little pinkies.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

with My own dainty little pinkies.

Thoughts of a garrotte come to mind, but that just doesn't fit the picture.

 

[Pure]

Eb said,

They already do [kill], Francisco.

If you look at the the recent cases, if the first victim is not killed, then most assuredly the second is.

Pedophilia has a very low (if at all) cure rate, and so most kill their victims after the first so they won't have a witness.

Preposterous. How do you think pedophiles rack up 50 -100 victims?

How would you explain that there cant be more than dozen child murders by molesters in a year, in the US, yet there must be hundreds or thousands of offenses?

My hypothesis: the murdering pedophile is one in a hundred pedophiles in general.

J.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Preposterous. How do you think pedophiles rack up 50 -100 victims?

How would you explain that there cant be more than dozen child murders by molesters in a year, in the US, yet there must be hundreds or thousands of offenses?

My hypothesis: the murdering pedophile is one in a hundred pedophiles in general.

J.

Big fucking deal ... they all deserve a painful flush out of the gene pool.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Francisco said

"Now what their (molesters) punishment should be is something different, although a strong advocate against the death penalty, I make an exception for child molesters who are guilty without doubt. "

A most unwise proposal, my friend. It would simply insure that every molester would kill his victim.

SV

I personally still have issues with taking life under any pretext, but don't totally rule it out as the way a person my deal with the situation in the heat of the moment, but I do not think death penalties would necessarily ensure perpetrators would kill their victims. After all, many a killer has been convicted and sentenced to death on substantiated evidence, especially now we have DNA methods of identifying.

Catalina

 

[AngelicAssassin]

I personally still have issues with taking life under any pretext, but don't totally rule it out as the way a person my deal with the situation in the heat of the moment, but I do not think death penalties would not necessarily ensure perpetrators would kill their victims. After all, many a killer has been convicted and sentenced to death on substantiated evidence, especially now we have DNA methods of identifying.

Catalina

Fine ... we'll throw the individuals in "question" in with the general population under a life sentence.

Problem solved, case closed, game over, Darwin wins.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I personally still have issues with taking life under any pretext, but don't totally rule it out as the way a person my deal with the situation in the heat of the moment, but I do not think death penalties would not necessarily ensure perpetrators would kill their victims. After all, many a killer has been convicted and sentenced to death on substantiated evidence, especially now we have DNA methods of identifying.

Catalina

Who said anything about the death penalty?

If one hurt one of My girls, I would do it myself and save the taxpayers some money.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Eb said,

They already do [kill], Francisco.

If you look at the the recent cases, if the first victim is not killed, then most assuredly the second is.

Pedophilia has a very low (if at all) cure rate, and so most kill their victims after the first so they won't have a witness.

Preposterous. How do you think pedophiles rack up 50 -100 victims?

How would you explain that there cant be more than dozen child murders by molesters in a year, in the US, yet there must be hundreds or thousands of offenses?

My hypothesis: the murdering pedophile is one in a hundred pedophiles in general.

J.

Pure?

Kiss MY black ass!