feedback for these poems

[big_daug6932]

The poems don't flow. They jump around too much. You need to choose your words more carefully. Choose words that provoke a deep thought process. Poems need to stimulate the mind. To bring you to a different world. That's my two cents worth

 

[Guest]

Poems need to stimulate the mind. To bring you to a different world.

ever been to NYC? Unless you've been there, you wont appreciate the poem.

 

[Guest]

The poems don't flow. They jump around too much. You need to choose your words more carefully. Choose words that provoke a deep thought process. Poems need to stimulate the mind. To bring you to a different world. That's my two cents worth

I'm sorry, but it's hard to take you seriously with that damn nana dancing.

 

[KillerMuffin]

what, no witty responses? Damn, I was hoping for high caliber "feedback".

You'll just have to wait until someone on a happy high comes along. Then they'll give you that high caliber "feedback" you crave.

You really should put in a standard disclaimer above all of your posts. "If you don't kiss me ass, then you're obviously one of the cretinous masses." That way we know you're too good for us without having to wait for you to tell us.

 

[Guest]

You'll just have to wait until someone on a happy high comes along. Then they'll give you that high caliber "feedback" you crave.

You really should put in a standard disclaimer above all of your posts. "If you don't kiss me ass, then you're obviously one of the cretinous masses." That way we know you're too good for us without having to wait for you to tell us.

instead of being a bitch about my writings, why not comment on them? For once I'd like to read some response by you that doesn't put down the writer. I have said many times before I am not looking for anyone to "kiss my ass", but to give me SUPPORTIVE and INSIGHTFUL feedback. I dont think that is too much to ask. You still have not shown me your "credentials" as a writer or editor.

 

[KillerMuffin]

You want my credentials? Fine. I'm an editor. I've been an editor for two years now. My prose and my poetry have both been published by literary magazines and have won awards. If you want more than that, you're shit out of luck because I'm not telling you my real name. And you have absolutely no right to demand that I do.

And no, I'm not giving you critique. Why should I waste my time? You don't want to hear it because it neither praises you nor is in awe of your so-called literary work. If you want my crit, you'll have to prove that you're worth my time. You've already proven at least five times over that you're not.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I'm home sick and feeling altruistic. Also, those pills left me in an happy high state, so here goes nothing.


NY
Towering concrete and glass
Apple, mecca of businessmen
Cigarette butts, pawn shops, homeless nomads

You use these first three verses as an establishing moment, enumerating certain elements that would ideally set the reader in the correct mind frame of your vision's NY. Does it work? I don't know. Towering concrete and glass, cigarette butts, pawnshops (one word), all images that get across successfully, but certainly aren't exclusive of New York. Apple. It's an isolated word thrown in there somewhere with no meaning or consequence for the poem whatsoever. Mecca of businessmen has an immense potential for a poem all by itself, but is completely wasted here. The expression "Homeless nomads" too has this potential and the poem misses it entirely. It sounds pleonastic and borderline silly when simply included in a list like this. It would have a different value and hint at something deeper by simply adding a comma and splitting it in two: "nomads, homeless".

The cityscape isn't the same
Without those towers
Expansive and often impersonal

This part is confusing (mostly because of your punctuation usage--more about that later): were the towers expansive and often impersonal? Is the cityscape expansive and often impersonal now that it doesn't include the towers? Was it expansive and often impersonal when the towers were there? More importantly? Why isn't the cityscape the same without those towers? I mean, except for the obvious; of course it isn't the same, there are elements missing, others appeared in the mean time, but what does it mean for the city, for its people, and for the observer (in most of North American cities, you can't see the cityscape from within). Are we supposed to care about the change? Make us care!

All types of people came here,
via entry way near the green lady
She is silent and non-judgmental

"Via entryway (again, one word) near" also has that pleonastic feel I mentioned earlier. I'd look for alternative formulations for this idea. What types of people come here? The businessmen and homeless nomads from verses 2 and 3? Anyone else? What are they motivations to have come here? How do they see the city? What influence can the cityscape have in them? Why should they care about the towers that aren't there? What is the relationship between the Green Lady, Those Towers, NY and all the types of people coming in or already here?

Feel the pulse of the city
Frenzied souls, 24/7

What I get from this last two lines is that there isn't that much of a difference. No one really has time to notice the changes in the cityscape. No one would care if they did notice. Everyone's on their own agenda, moving faster every second.

You need to pay attention to punctuation and capitalization. The way you have it now, it has no coherence one way or the other. Is there a reason for not using punctuation? There must be, and sometimes it can make a poem better. But if you don't know how to do it, don't. If you're not going to use punctuation, purge it completely and trust on line breaks to set the pace. What you have here is not only void of significance, it's ugly to look at (the graphic designer in you should have seen it if the aspiring poet hasn't). Is there a reason for capitalizing the first word of every verse (but one!), regardless of punctuation? Again, there must be, but here the purpose eludes me completely. And it looks ugly.

In short, what you have here is a few good ideas that could be a germen of a poem if you just aknowledge them and allow them to develop rationally.

 

[DarlingNikki]

ever been to NYC? Unless you've been there, you wont appreciate the poem.

It's your job as a poet to make someone experience the subject of the poem. That's what poetry is. It's not a secret in-joke between you and anyone who happens to already know exactly what you're talking about.

P.S. I was born and raised in NYC and your poem left me cold.

And I'm sorry but, "Pulse of the city" is a pretty over-used cliche.

 

[Angeline]

NYC

I was born and raised in NYC and your poem left me cold.

My family is from NYC, too--Manhattan, to be exact, so I'm pretty aware of how city references work in poems. I think Lauren's excellent crit covered most of the points, but the one thing I wanted to say is that you have--IMHO--way too much going on in such a short poem. In 11 lines, you've got at least 6 potential themes:

1. Towering skyscrapers

2. Mecca for business (and why just men; lotsa businesswomen there, too)

3. Homelessness

4. WTC

5. Statue of Liberty and Immigration

6. Frenzied, impersonal life (one could argue this--there are lots of peaceful pockets in the city--ever been to the Cloisters? and New Yorkers are mostly very friendly if you actually talk to them)

So the problem is with all these random images--and you haven't related them to each other, so they are random--it seems a series of cliches that don't convey a sense of place.

I think there are two ways to make "city poems" work. One is to make them exhaustive, like Carl Sandberg does in Chicago (Ginsberg has some good examples of this, too). You simply can't do that in 11 lines. The other is to convey the city's essence through a little piece of it. Here is an excerpt from a poem of mine that looks at NYC through one locale--Washington Square Park. It's very specific:



At 8 a.m. on positively 4th street,
the neighbors own the square.

Old woman with suspicious eyes,
a leash and two unwary dogs goes by,
two old men arguing, jab fingers,
pointing at a bench:
they’re angry at the snow,
no place to go,
no early morning chess.

Across the street a couple moves as one,
their wool coats pressed, heads bent
alike, their hair the same;
I could be seeing double,
till they laugh and separate,
and she moves south,
toward NYU perhaps, and him,
who knows.

I'd rework the poem, trying one of those two methods to make a more effective piece.

 

[HomerPindar]

Re: NYC

At 8 a.m. on positively 4th street,
the neighbors own the square.

Old woman with suspicious eyes,
a leash and two unwary dogs goes by,
two old men arguing, jab fingers,
pointing at a bench:
they’re angry at the snow,
no place to go,
no early morning chess.

Across the street a couple moves as one,
their wool coats pressed, heads bent
alike, their hair the same;
I could be seeing double,
till they laugh and separate,
and she moves south,
toward NYU perhaps, and him,
who knows.

I'd rework the poem, trying one of those two methods to make a more effective piece.

Having read up on this thread - catching up take a bit of time - I figured this is a good as any place to jump back into the mix.

As always, great scene, as real as any of your jazz bars. And, just as effective, it's not set in the same tone as your jazz pieces (gotta keep it diverse, eh? )

Now, on the flip side, what, they had a discount sale on coma's? Every line...? Isn't it possible that the end line can do the job, so that the visual interuption doesn't catch my eye? It also trips me at the one line that doesn't end in punctuation, but then I am a klutz.

HomerPindar

 

[Angeline]

Now, on the flip side, what, they had a discount sale on coma's

excuse me, you see *my* name on this thread asking for feedback? and I'm assuming you mean commas and not comas, lol, although lately maybe one would have been nice.

But ok, lemme look. Is this better?


At 8 a.m. on positively 4th street
the neighbors own the square.

Old woman with suspicious eyes,
holds leash, walks two unwary dogs.
Two old men jab fingers,
pointing at a bench.
They’re angry at the snow.
No place to go.
No early morning chess.

Across the street a couple moves as one.
Their wool coats pressed,
heads bent alike,
and hair the same.
(I could be seeing double
till they laugh and separate.)
She moves south
toward NYU perhaps
and him,
who knows.


TY, Homer!

 

[HomerPindar]

excuse me, you see *my* name on this thread asking for feedback? and I'm assuming you mean commas and not comas, lol, although lately maybe one would have been nice.

Well, yeah..those too...

But ok, lemme look. Is this better?


At 8 a.m. on positively 4th street
the neighbors own the square.

Old woman with suspicious eyes,
holds leash, walks two unwary dogs.
Two old men jab fingers,
pointing at a bench.
They’re angry at the snow.
No place to go.
No early morning chess.

Across the street a couple moves as one.
Their wool coats pressed,
heads bent alike,
and hair the same.
(I could be seeing double
till they laugh and separate.)
She moves south
toward NYU perhaps
and him,
who knows.


TY, Homer!

You are, of course, quite welcome my dear. Not sure about the chops of the last few lines, first stanze (or does that count as second stanza after the time?)

HomerPindar

 

[Angeline]

ummmm

they're the 4th and 5th stanzas i think. i forget, but i'm in the process of rewriting that one anyway, so it's all good.

 

[HomerPindar]

ummmm

they're the 4th and 5th stanzas i think. i forget, but i'm in the process of rewriting that one anyway, so it's all good.

And that concludes the demonstration on giving and recieving criticism, with what passes for my sense of humor, without blowing ones top.

HUGS ANG!!

HomerPindar

 

[Angeline]

I'm sorry, but it's hard to take you seriously with that damn nana dancing.

But, GP, you're er throbbing, lol.

 

[Guest]

Re: NYC

So the problem is with all these random images--and you haven't related them to each other.

One is to make them exhaustive, like Carl Sandberg does in Chicago (Ginsberg has some good examples of this, too).

I'll rework the poem (maybe it needs to be a few lines longer) but I did indeed relate the images and no, I do not want to be like Sandberg. I've read his works, he is mediocre.
KM, it's ok hon, I'll be published in a year and then you can apologize for saying my writings are "not worth" your time.

 

[Guest]

It's your job as a poet to make someone experience the subject of the poem. That's what poetry is. It's not a secret in-joke between you and anyone who happens to already know exactly what you're talking about.

I strongly disagree. The poem is what YOU interpret it as, it should not be up to the writer to walk you through it.

 

[Angeline]

lol, desade I'm not at all suggesting you write like Sandburg, just using him as an example.

And can you explain how, specifically, you relate the images because, really, I don't see it. There's no transitional language or punctuation--what poetic device does that leave? You disagree, fine, but don't just say i did, too, explain...

Y'know, if you don't agree, that's your business of course--it's your poem--but you have four people saying it doesn't work--that should tell you something. Maybe run the poem by another poetry forum and see what you get.

 

[Angeline]

and it *is* up to the poet to offer some guidelines--I don't want to argue, I'm really just trying to give feedback, but isn't writing in any medium about communication? If you write something that doesn't communicate, what's the point?

 

[Guest]

and it *is* up to the poet to offer some guidelines--I don't want to argue, I'm really just trying to give feedback, but isn't writing in any medium about communication? If you write something that doesn't communicate, what's the point?

to a degree, yes, but generally it is about reading and taking away from it what YOU the reader believes it to be.
Many writers do this, I am not the first.
4 people said the poem didn't convey a feeling vs. 12 people who said it does. What does that say?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Did they say what feeling it conveyed?

I'd also appreciate if you could take a minute to explain how you related the images, please. Angeline made a very pertinent, interesting question.

 

[Angeline]

well to me it says you're probably more interested in defending your poem than thinking about how to improve it, but as I said, it's your poem and you have my feedback.

 

[Guest]

Did they say what feeling it conveyed?

I'd also appreciate if you could take a minute to explain how you related the images, please. Angeline made a very pertinent, interesting question.

they said it conveyed a feeling of "raw energy" and it portrayed city life accurately.
As for how the images relate, apple, meaning Big Apple-the place of business. "She is silent and non-judgmental" is how I view the Statue of Liberty. Granted, I have been to only 2 metro areas- NYC and Boston and have not yet been to places west of NY.
I agree the poem needs to be re-written. This was only the rough draft. Yeah, I need to get rid of the cliches and expand on the ideas.

 

[Guest]

well to me it says you're probably more interested in defending your poem than thinking about how to improve it, but as I said, it's your poem and you have my feedback.

that is assuming. I'd rather re-write poems and stories than defend my ideas.

 

[Angeline]

i meant the poem--not your ideas--and what is your writing composed of, if not your ideas?