For those who assume supporting a Trump presidency over a Biden one means being a MAGA Trumper....

[SmokingFap]

I don’t have a dog in this fight but this caught my eye. For the past week, everytime I buy OJ for my screwdrivers, I say to myself “juice will not replace us!”
What is this from

Hi, Neb. Never seen you in this festering cesspool before, and I recommend you stay away. You seem too fun and nice over on the other boards to be here. That is funny about your OJ. But please tell me you're kidding with your last question...

 

[PlanetaryNebula]

Hi, Neb. Never seen you in this festering cesspool before, and I recommend you stay away. You seem too fun and nice over on the other boards to be here. That is funny about your OJ. But please tell me you're kidding with your last question...

No i seriously can’t remember where I heard this chant! And i like to peek in the pool , see who’s over here insulting who and arguing about different sides of the same coin. But that’s all you’ll get out of me! Now where is this quote from!?

 

[SmokingFap]

No i seriously can’t remember where I heard this chant! And i like to peek in the pool , see who’s over here insulting who and arguing about different sides of the same coin. But that’s all you’ll get out of me! Now where is this quote from!?

Neb. Have you never heard the chant "The Jews will not replace us!"? If you've watched the news anytime in the past 5 or 6 years, you may have seen a bunch of white men wearing khaki pants and carrying Tiki torches shouting that...

So you might want to avoid saying "The juice will not replace us" out loud at the grocery store.

 

[PaxNurgle]

There not there to replace anyone, they’re there to help women that have 2nd thoughts about aborting their pregnancy.

By using the strong arm of the State, they are not "Helping" anyone. That is forced coercion, not help.

A true Christian would do exactly what you say- offer guidance, advice and care to a woman experiencing an unwanted and possibly dangerous pregnancy. Not use the Government to force women to give birth to an unwanted child. That is basically, well, socialism. Or at any rate, the antithesis of freedom.

 

[Lady2020]

I am pretty exhausted with those who can't seem to separate support for a person's policies, or at least many of them, from blanket support for a man. Agreement on some key points does not, nor has it ever, equated to a cult following. For example, I agree with much of the moral teachings of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and could have a very good conversation about the state of society today. But I could never join with them on any other level because there are key components to their teachings that I consider to be dangerous and that make them horrible cults. In many ways, cults of personality are worse.

So, for those of you who are unable to distinguish enough to have a nuanced conversation, I am going to post here four MAJOR areas where I disagree with Trump's stated platform. I understand that on three of these issues it's because I don't think he goes far enough or gives too much, but that alone makes the point that I do not consider, nor have I ever considered, him a conservative in any sense of the word. He is a populist and a pragmatist. But I do prefer him over the alternative currently out there.

Having said all that, here are my four points of major DISAGREEMENT with Trump.

1: His stance on tariffs. He did this before and I had a major beef then too. Tariffs do not help any economy, not does the intended target of a tariff, especially if they, fairly or unfairly, control much of that market, ever actually take the biggest hit. This should be basic economics 101. When prices go up, the consumer, not the company, is going to pay them. So using tariffs to punish China and other bad actors on the national stage is just a bad idea. It has never worked. If he does this, it will easily at least partially undercut the economic benefits of a Trump presidency.

2: His willingness to leave abortion laws up to the states. Abortion is a human rights issue. A baby is IN a mother's womb, but it is not PART of her body. We know this to be scientifically true. The baby has separate DNA, can be a separate gender, has different needs, and is not legitimately a "my body, my choice" issue. That is a human life. That life, no matter how it is conceived, is precious. There are other options if the mother is in danger, or it was conceived in a horrific way, but to murder a baby because of crimes not its own is horrific. Abortion, taking the life of an innocent, is ALWAYS murder. We would not leave the right to murder a baby 1 hour out of the womb, even born prematurely, up to the states. The location of that baby's body has no bearing on whether or not it should be considered a crime of the most heinous nature. Instead of taking the easy route of leaving it up to the states, there needs to be support for treating murder as murder on a national level. Period.

3. Funding for Israel in their defense, short of actual crimes and corruption, which they have not been part of at least up to this point, should never have even the consideration of qualifiers beyond the consideration of what we can afford. I know there are a LOT of you that will flip out on this statement, but I stand by it. That is a much longer discussion I don't feel the need to get into here. But his willingness to add caveats to funding and aid makes me very nervous.

4. Heavy pushes on the so-called vax for Covid-19. These things are a nightmare and are making things worse. Again, because of the purpose of this thread, I am not going to engage in the debate over the position. There are great threads and posts out there that have that debate. You can make up your own mind on that subject. I am very nervous that a push compromise on this, though, can and will lead to taking away freedom of choice on this issue. As with any vax issue, I believe failure to allow individual and family liberty on this is in fact a fundamental constitutional violation of individual rights and opens the door to far more egregious violations. Give a government an inch, they will take... everything!

There are, of course, other minor issues, but these are huge deals for me. But given the choice between these and dealing with a radical leftist socialist agenda being pushed forward, I have no issues voting for the man. I just want there to be actual conservatives around him to keep him in check.

Reminds me of my brother who bitches about Trump and the GOP's stance on Ukraine. Guess what the lilly livered sob said when I asked him are you voting for Trump again. FO.

 

[Bray123]

The problem with making rape illegal is that people will still rape. It is just done in a more unsafe manner. The problem with making Meth illegal is that people will still do and sell Meth. The problem with making murder illegal.... Oops. Murder isn't illegal, at least if you are following the right procedures to murder an innocent baby in the womb.

Ask the many, many women who can't have kids, or who want to care for more, who have had the adoption system in this country made so difficult they can't navigate it. There is no such thing as an unwanted child. If that baby is not wanted by his or her birth mother, there are countless families who WANT to adopt them. The idea of an "unwanted baby" is a myth.

So we say save an innocent life and you call for the ending of that life. But we are spreading hatred. Murdering babies is love. Trying to save their small lives is hatred. You realize that is about the most blatantly problematic statement you have made here? But.... good going. Death is love, Life is hate. Got it.

Good points. If drugs were decriminalized they would be properly produced with better ingredients (no more brick dust in heroin). Much safer.

No more importation of foreign babies to satisfy the needs of adoptive parents. Let them die in poverty in their own shithole countries! Spoken like a true White Supremacist Evangelical Christian. Strangely, those keen adopters tend to turn their noses up at babies with complex needs. Only perfect white ones will do, they tick their adoption papers more carefully than choosing the options on a used car. Those babies rejected by the adopters can stay with their abused mothers, not your problem.

 

[icanhelp1]

By using the strong arm of the State, they are not "Helping" anyone. That is forced coercion, not help.

A true Christian would do exactly what you say- offer guidance, advice and care to a woman experiencing an unwanted and possibly dangerous pregnancy. Not use the Government to force women to give birth to an unwanted child. That is basically, well, socialism. Or at any rate, the antithesis of freedom.

They see it differently. They ( pro-life advocates ) believe an unborn human fetus is entitled to human rights and that they are morally compelled to defend those that cannot defend themselves. They believe once conceived a fetus is entitled to the God given right to life. If that concept is evil to you then you refuse to see their moral commitment on the issue. You using the strong arm of the state to enforce your values makes you no better than pro-life advocates. There are numerous ways to avoid unnecessary pregnancies, it takes education, a little planning, and use of contraceptives that are readily accessible to both men and women.

 

[icanhelp1]

Good points. If drugs were decriminalized they would be properly produced with better ingredients (no more brick dust in heroin). Much safer.

No more importation of foreign babies to satisfy the needs of adoptive parents. Let them die in poverty in their own shithole countries! Spoken like a true White Supremacist Evangelical Christian. Strangely, those keen adopters tend to turn their noses up at babies with complex needs. Only perfect white ones will do, they tick their adoption papers more carefully than choosing the options on a used car. Those babies rejected by the adopters can stay with their abused mothers, not your problem.

We don’t have the resources to provide for all the world’s problems. Returning to good ole healthy family values and promoting our own organic families is somehow white supremacy is quite revealing of your warped sense of national and Christian values.

 

[adrina]

They see it differently. They ( pro-life advocates ) believe an unborn human fetus is entitled to human rights and that they are morally compelled to defend those that cannot defend themselves. They believe once conceived a fetus is entitled to the God given right to life. If that concept is evil to you then you refuse to see their moral commitment on the issue. You using the strong arm of the state to enforce your values makes you no better than pro-life advocates. There are numerous ways to avoid unnecessary pregnancies, it takes education, a little planning, and use of contraceptives that are readily accessible to both men and women.

Until they either need an abortion or need an abortion for a woman they impregnated. Ironically you seem to think that abortions happen at a different rate between anti-abortion and pro-choice folks. They don't. But then you're just yet another ignorant male talking about abortion.

If a person wants to call themself pro-life then they need to do more than merely advocate for the end of abortions. They need to actually support life. They don't.

 

[ll74]

So long as you are okay with killing babies.

Abortion doesn't involve babies

 

[Bray123]

We don’t have the resources to provide for all the world’s problems. Returning to good ole healthy family values and promoting our own organic families is somehow white supremacy is quite revealing of your warped sense of national and Christian values.

So, 'good ole family values' doesn't include helping out children in need. Gotcha.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

They see it differently. They ( pro-life advocates ) believe an unborn human fetus is entitled to human rights and that they are morally compelled to defend those that cannot defend themselves.

Believe....hmmm where have I seen that before???

They believe once conceived a fetus is entitled to the God given right to life.

Believe....hmmm where have I seen that before????

If that concept is evil to you then you refuse to see their moral commitment on the issue.

I prefer to follow and support the legal commitments Government has enshrined.

You using the strong arm of the state to enforce your values makes you no better than pro-life advocates

Laws vs beliefs...which one to follow.

. There are numerous ways to avoid unnecessary pregnancies, it takes education, a little planning, and use of contraceptives that are readily accessible to both men and women.

Yes, and I think that forced reversible vasectomies for all males, reversible only when a female agrees to carry their child. That will end unwanted pregnancy!!

 

[MajorRewrite]

There are numerous ways to avoid unnecessary pregnancies, it takes education, a little planning, and use of contraceptives that are readily accessible to both men and women.

The Republicans are going to outlaw contraceptives next. The Supreme Court and the House of Representatives have already signaled their support, and the Heritage Foundation has already called for it.

 

[HisArpy]

The Republicans are going to outlaw contraceptives next. The Supreme Court and the House of Representatives have already signaled their support, and the Heritage Foundation has already called for it.

If they do it won't survive a legal challenge.

 

[icanhelp1]

Until they either need an abortion or need an abortion for a woman they impregnated. Ironically you seem to think that abortions happen at a different rate between anti-abortion and pro-choice folks. They don't. But then you're just yet another ignorant male talking about abortion.

If a person wants to call themself pro-life then they need to do more than merely advocate for the end of abortions. They need to actually support life. They don't.

They do!!! You just refuse to admit that there are organizations out there that are more than willing to help. The mission of those organizations go against your cultists beliefs that pro-life advocates are evil because they believe in the sanctity of life.

 

[icanhelp1]

So, 'good ole family values' doesn't include helping out children in need. Gotcha.

There’s an estimated 80,000 + children missing, sold into sex slavery, under age working conditions or just plain missing. Where’s your compassion for them. Gotcha!

 

[Bray123]

There’s an estimated 80,000 + children missing, sold into sex slavery, under age working conditions or just plain missing. Where’s your compassion for them. Gotcha!

I'm very concerned for them, many of whom are trafficked from Mexico into Red States. I would rather Congress do something about it but they're too busy worrying about Hunter's laptop.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

I'm very concerned for them, many of whom are trafficked from Mexico into Red States.

This is reminding me that today is that very special holiday that most of White America loves (fetishizes) everything about Mexicans instead of knee-jerk fearing them because they have an excuse to eat tacos and drink Coronas while wearing costume sombreros.

 

[adrina]

They do!!! You just refuse to admit that there are organizations out there that are more than willing to help. The mission of those organizations go against your cultists beliefs that pro-life advocates are evil because they believe in the sanctity of life.

Your ignorance is palpable. Those so-called help organizations have been documented as misleading these women who need help and then abandoning them as soon as they are no longer able to get an abortion. You live in la la land when it comes to the facts you are working with.

Again the anti-abortion folks get abortions at the same rate as the people in the pro-choice camp.

If people want to be known as pro-life then they need to be more than anti-abortion

 

[icanhelp1]

I'm very concerned for them, many of whom are trafficked from Mexico into Red States. I would rather Congress do something about it but they're too busy worrying about Hunter's laptop.

It’s Biden’s immigration policy. They’re trafficked all over the country. They may pass through red states because red states border Mexico.

 

[icanhelp1]

Your ignorance is palpable. Those so-called help organizations have been documented as misleading these women who need help and then abandoning them as soon as they are no longer able to get an abortion. You live in la la land when it comes to the facts you are working with.

Again the anti-abortion folks get abortions at the same rate as the people in the pro-choice camp.

If people want to be known as pro-life then they need to be more than anti-abortion

You can find bad anywhere if you look hard enough.

 

[coati]

It’s Biden’s immigration policy. They’re trafficked all over the country. They may pass through red states because red states border Mexico.

Well, your cult leader, Donald Von Shitzenpants, nixed bipartisan border-related legislation, and now he wants to simply exile or lock up all migrants of color.

I'd prefer to see a Democratic House, Senate, and Executive branch to take action after the next election. They are the only ones left in D.C. who are willing to get shit done.

MAGAts sure are flocking to this thread about allegedly not being MAGAts.

 

[butters]

so, to anyone reading this thread, i'm not here to discuss issues with jaysecrets since they're the kind of zealot i have no space for in my life...

in 2022, the 'birth rate' had dropped to 0.2 per 1,000 girls in the 10-14 age bracket. how many girls is that?
and that's BIRTHS.
it's not a stretch to imagine there are considerably more children who get pregnant but have those pregnancies terminated or lose them... both of which cause risk to the child's own health but not so great as carrying a pregnancy to term. Let's add together the number of births and the pregnancies terminated or lost. It's not NEARLY near rare enough. And then add in all the births and pregnancies of kids aged 14-18....

the notion that we should force children to carry a pregnancy, which robs her own body of vital calcium and other nutrients even as she's growing and desperately needs them herself, until it can be 'safely removed from her body to continue to grow in an incubator' is awful.
not only awful, it is mind-blowingly naive to image that carrying the fetus till, say, 20 weeks and then forcing surgery (in the form of a caesarian) on the child can be done at no harm to the child's body. Anyone who's been pregnant knows the toll a pregnancy takes on ones body, and childbirth at term for an adult is most often a difficult, and often traumatic, experience.

children should not be made to carry a pregnancy.

 

[icanhelp1]

Well, your cult leader, Donald Von Shitzenpants, nixed bipartisan border-related legislation, and now he wants to simply exile or lock up all migrants of color.

I'd prefer to see a Democratic House, Senate, and Executive branch to take action after the next election. They are the only ones left in D.C. who are willing to get shit done.

MAGAts sure are flocking to this thread about allegedly not being MAGAts.

Exile? Migrants of color? Where do you come up with this crap. Mass deportation within immigration laws, I’m sure the plan is to round up cases that require litigation for asylum, if they fit the criteria they stay if not off they go back to their country of origin. If it worked for Obama I’m sure it’ll work for Trump.

 

[adrina]

You can find bad anywhere if you look hard enough.

Don't have to look hard in finding the bad in a bunch of anti abortion zealots.