deckardB26354
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Tuboshitville is dumb as a bag of rocks.
For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine
- Thread starter Rightguide
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Russia invaded the Crimea.
Then Russia+ USA + UK+ had a treaty to protect Ukraine's independence....which Putin then tore up...because he needed a war to look like a tough guy.
If the USA + UK had asked Ukraine to join NATO, Putin would never have invaded.
If EU had included Ukraine, Putin would never have invaded.
If all the countries bordering Russia join NATO (if they want to) then Putin won't invade these, either. Because bullies are cowards + cowards are always the 1st to run.
Then Russia+ USA + UK+ had a treaty to protect Ukraine's independence....which Putin then tore up...because he needed a war to look like a tough guy.
If the USA + UK had asked Ukraine to join NATO, Putin would never have invaded.
If EU had included Ukraine, Putin would never have invaded.
If all the countries bordering Russia join NATO (if they want to) then Putin won't invade these, either. Because bullies are cowards + cowards are always the 1st to run.
ll74
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Question - how can Ukraine be losing badly and yet also he be asking "if the tide turns..."
Either they are losing badly or they aren't (hint: they aren't)
ChloeTzang
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Actually I am. That meeting today between Trump and Zelensky was pretty positive and I think it'll be better for Ukraine if Trump DOES win. Which I think he will.
Biden/Harris have been playing a losing game here, drip feeding military aid and not giving Ukraine enough to win, but enabling them to hold Russian off. The artillery ammo fiasco cost Ukraine strategic positions that they'd held for years, and also thousands of unnecessary casualties. Biden's stalling on sending Abrams and Bradley's and Bradley's in particular, is a criminal failure. We have, literally, thousands that could be tidied up and sent off to Ukraine to die doing what they were designed to do. That policy continues. The only reason we see those billions being committed all of a sudden is Biden doesn't want to be run out of office looking like a total loser. Now, that's good if everything is committed and it can't be reversed.
That said, Trump will want to come out winning, and a deal that Ukraine won't accept is not winning - Europe will keep on supporting Zelensky now regardless of the US, and the way Rheinmetall is going, by next year they'll be a good way along to keeping Ukraine going all on their own. Exaggeration, but the European industrial base is underestimated. Now what I suspect is, Trump will cut off the handing over billions and move to Lend-Lease, on generous terms, enabling Ukraine to buy what they need.
Keep in mind here those billions going to "Ukraine" are actually almost all going to the US Defense industry to use to replace stockpiled old shit that is being sent to Ukraine. Those old Bradley's are being sold off at recycling prices. So if Trump goes lend-lease, there's a load of old equipment out there in the desert going cheap if you sell the stuff at book value rather than replacement cost. And even so, what has been handed over to Ukraine is maybe 5% of our overall defense budget. Chickenfeed. So at book value thats a win-win. Trump looks great - no more cash for Ukraine. Zelensky is happy. He can buy 1000 old Bradleys for three tenths of nothing much on Lend-Lease. Ammo is a bit different, but Japan or someone else will likely front up with cash to pay. Or lend-lease. Whatever. As long as the ammo gets through.
And a lot of that stockpiled stuff is near end of life, and disposing of it costs more than shipping it out to be used up on Russians. So again, a win and itf it's spun right, it looks good to both MAGA and Ukraine. Win-win. The art of the deal..... And better yet, Trump will want Ukraine to win unless he can force a Russian backdown by pouring in aid - which may spark an internal coup in Russia and Putin will eat a lead pill and someone more amenable to reason, and wanting to get the bucks flowing again, will step in.
ll74
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Trump would force Ukraine to capitulate completely
Trump already said that "Europe is on it's own" against Putin. He will let Putin have whatever he wants + deny assets to Ukraine in order to get it.
ChloeTzang
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Nah, he comes out looking like a loser and he doesn't like that. And the war won't stop because he wants it to. Zelensky won't give up and Putin's not amenable to reason. Which leaves Trump with only one option. Back Ukraine while making it look good.
You're forgetting: Putin is a hugely paranoid + rabid KGB thug who happens to have a government job which was given to him.
Whereas Trump is a raving narcissist and Putin's bitch, because he caves in to him every time.
Trump will stop all funding + resources to Ukraine as soon as possible, leaving the door wide open for Putin.
Then it looks like "Trump stopped the Ukraine war", which will be a far bigger ego-boost than any flak he might get from looking like he abandoned Ukraine, or from Putin winning.
Whereas Trump is a raving narcissist and Putin's bitch, because he caves in to him every time.
Trump will stop all funding + resources to Ukraine as soon as possible, leaving the door wide open for Putin.
Then it looks like "Trump stopped the Ukraine war", which will be a far bigger ego-boost than any flak he might get from looking like he abandoned Ukraine, or from Putin winning.
ll74
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ChloeTzang
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The plot that is entirely made up?
Of course
Well we won't really know unless one is used, will we. But I apologize for diverging from Ukraine. This is irrelevant and I'll delete that post. It's not a positive contribution to this thread.
ll74
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Lol
Fear mongering is easy to fool dipshits...
Remember when we were heading into world war three two years ago?
ChloeTzang
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ChloeTzang
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On the dot. 650k by end of September. 800k by the end of 2024.....
ChloeTzang
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Rightguide
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MSM Demand Zelensky Admit He Can’t Win the War, Report On Ukraine’s Old and Poorly Trained Soldiers Who Are Dying Fast and Panicking Under Fire
by Paul Serran Sep. 29, 2024 9:30 amTwo and a half years since the war began, we’ve finally come to the point where most of the Mockingbird Media is ready to call it quits, and openly admit the obvious: Russian Federation troops are winning the war.
Even in their cheerleading for Kiev, they have to admit that ‘if Ukraine and its Western backers are to win, they must first have the courage to admit that they are losing.’
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/09/msm-demand-zelensky-admit-he-cant-win-war/
“A measure of Ukraine’s declining fortunes is Russia’s advance in the east, particularly around the city of Pokrovsk.
[…] Ukraine is also struggling off the battlefield. Russia has destroyed so much of the power grid that Ukrainians will face the freezing winter with daily blackouts of up to 16 hours. People are tired of war. The army is struggling to mobilize and train enough troops to hold the line, let alone retake territory. There is a growing gap between the total victory many Ukrainians say they want, and their willingness or ability to fight for it.”
Another unmistakable realization is that abroad, ‘fatigue is setting in’, be it in Germany and France or in the United States.
“If Mr Zelensky continues to defy reality by insisting that Ukraine’s army can take back all the land Russia has stolen since 2014, he will drive away Ukraine’s backers and further divide Ukrainian society. Whether or not Mr Trump wins in November, the only hope of keeping American and European support and uniting Ukrainians is for a new approach that starts with leaders stating honestly what victory means.”
It’s become obvious that he does not have the men or arms to turn the war around.
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2...dly-ukraine-and-its-allies-must-change-course
Like I said, it's all over but the shouting. We simply cannot believe a word the US media says on any subject that implicates the policies of the Biden administration or the Democrat Party.
ll74
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*Democratic party
Ukraine will defend itself against the hostile invasion as it needs to do so.
We will continue to support them.
Rightguide
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Like I have been telling you, it's all but over, they're running out of men. They want NATO troops but they aren't going to get them unless you want WWIII. It's going to be another Biden embarrassment. Russia now has effective control over about 25% of Ukrainian territory and they're advancing all along the Eastern Front. It looks as if the war will be settled on Russian terms as Ukraine now has nothing to Bargain with. The conditions agreed upon in 2022 between Russia and Ukraine, the agreement we canceled, have been pulled off the table by the Russians.
My prediction: Ukraine will be forced to surrender. Zelensky will be gone. Ukraine will become either neutral or a rump state of Russia. It will never be a member of NATO.
PS: Sources are saying that last Kinzhal attack near Kiev destroyed four F-16s. We'll hear about it from European sources before you we it from our sources. The word is they were Danish F-16s.
ll74
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You say a lot of things and act as if I should defer to some sort of authority that you have.....
I don't waiver my support based on your Russian talking points....sorry
NATO is not sending nor will it send troops
And Ukraine has control over Russian territory. Ukraine refuses to capitulate.
They have plenty to bargain with.
Russians backed out once Ukraine demonstrated that they could take Russian territory.
You've been predicting the same bullshit since the war started.
"Sources"
Of course
deckardB26354
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ChloeTzang
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Au contraire. Russia is on its last legs, a boxer at the end of the fight, staring collapse and defeat in the face and desperately throwing everything into a flurry of wild punches in the attempt to stave off the inevitable. We are past that turning point now, and where we are is, Ukraine is constantly gaining strength and Russia is fading, their only advantage a willingness to throw in endless (except they're not) waves of meat and a rather large supply of bombs and missiles. Tanks? Nyet, Valdimir. Artilleria? Nyet, Vladimir? Ammunition? Sorry, Vladimir, the damn Banderites have blown half of it up! Russian resources are running down and as Ukrainian and European production gears up, those drone swarm attacks are going to be become worse and worse. From sporadic small waves of 10 and 20 to 100-200 drone swarms now, it won't be long before we see the first thousand drone raid, absolutely swamping air defense and completely annihilating selected targets one by one.
Worse yet, think of front line attacks - swarms of reconnaissance, tank-killer, and anti-personnel kamikaze drones alog with those flamethrower in AI-controlled swarms, accompanied by mine detection and mine-removal drones, autonomous killer-robots, and finally, ZSU troops in IFV's with tanks spread very thinly and clearing up whatever's left, identifying and taking out any holdouts, and tasked with breakthrough lanes for the exploitation brigades. We saw a precursor in Kursk to what this will look like and THAT is what is coming. While the Russians devolve to meatwave attacks and terror bombing, the ZSU is fighting the war of the future, and the end results will be devastating for the Russian military.
Back in February 2022, Ukraine had 215,000 troops, and Putin thought the Russians would be welcomed with flowers. Instead, Russia’s military has waded into a slaughterhouse where they're now losing on average 1,300-1,400 troops a day and Ukraine is both holding the Russians, attacking them where it's opportune (Kursk) and building and training new Brigades. Part of Ukraine's problem is they have the manpower, but not necessarily all the equipment they need to equip those Brigades. This is why things like IFV's are so important. Even 200 Bradley's would let Ukraine flesh out a couple of new Brigades, and there's very little point in Ukraine going on the offensive without the equipment they need to make it successful and exploit those results. Same with ammo. Ammo supply for artillery is critical and right now Ukraine, thx to the Czechs, is getting enough but any wavering by the US, as we saw last year, could have an impact. Ukraine cannot risk the US weaseling out as Biden did. As for F16's, whatever. If they did actually lose 4 (unlikely), it wouldn't matter.
There's more, and Mirages are coming. Possibly Gripens eventually, but Ukraine will build up their airforce slowly. They were talking to Turkey about the Kaan, but when you think about it, France handing them Mirage's is more likely to swing Ukraine towards eventually buying something like the Dassault Rafale unless Sweden comes through with Gripens. Which may be more likely if Trump is elected - it seems like Biden Administration has been vetoing the engines - usually Biden bullshit, Anyhow, if the Russian Air Force cannot penetrate Ukrainian air space now, a few F16's makes no difference. What the f16's do do is give Ukraine a longer reach into the frontline areas and reduces the effectiveness of Russian bomb strikes which is what's critical. Even if we gave them 200 F16's, it would take them a decade to develop the capabilities, skillsets, mindset and procedures to fight an air war at our or the Brit's level.
Now, think about tanks and IFV's. Ukraine actually has more tanks than Russia now and is getting a constant trickle of refurbished Leopards and Marders. There are a couple of hundred old Swedish M113-equivalents on their way, and Rheinmetall's Fuch's and Lynxes should be beginning to roll off the production lines shortly. Again, not in huge numbers, but they build up incrementally. Along with the new Brigades Ukraine has been creating. Ukraine has the personnel and is training them, their problem is sufficient equipment to build them up into fighting units - you don't create squads, platoons, companies, battalions and brigades and train them in combined arms warfare overnight. Their are skills upon skills upon skills to be taught, learnt and practiced.
Ukraine has been doing a large mobilization on an ongoing basis, but what they HAVE been doing is, rather then feeding new personnel into frontline units, they've been creating, equipping and training new Brigades, and they have been taking personnel from existing units to supply a skeleton of officers, NCO's and experienced personnel for those new Brigades. We have seen one or two of them used in Kursk (from something I read) where they did rather well. Now again, from what I read, there are at last six or seven new Brigades existing, and as many more being created, all of which takes time. There is NO danger of a Russian breakthrough - the ZSU has plenty of room to fall back into, and Russian logistics is rail dependent - once they are more than 25 miles from a railhead they begin to run into logistical issues, and Ukraine is constantly targeting their logistics, making it harder and harder for them to supply front line units.
Which is why you read all these stories about Russian troops with no food, no water and no ammo. The Russians treat their meat as expendable and don't plan on them lasting more than a few days. The task of the ZSU is to bleed them out while slowly falling back when positions become indefensible. Which they are doing. Now, the ZSU aren't supermen, they fuck up, some of their officers are incompetent, they don't seem to be that great at thinking ahead and preparing defensive positions to fall back to, and there's other flaws, all of which have been outlined by military and Ukrainan bloggers. But the ZSU is fighting to win, and they are fighting to their strengths. Russia is going down.....
Slava Ukraini!!!!
Read the lyrics to the ZSU's anthem - any military with a song like this as it's anthem is not going to be defeated.
And the last lines...."From the San to the Caucasus."
Putin has made one huge mistake. In the end, if Russia does not pull back to the 2014 borders, it will be Russia conceding traditional Ukrainian territory to Ukrain as the Russian Federation disintegrates and Muscovy becomes just one more medium sized European state without the wealth of Siberia.
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ChloeTzang
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Ukraine and Denmark have signed a Letter of Intent regarding the implementation of financial support for defense production in Ukraine. This will help provide almost 600 million euros of investment in the Ukraine defense industry. This is a direct contribution to the development of Ukrainian attack UAVs, missiles and anti-tank systems. Denmark allocated 175 million euros, and another 400 million euros will be taken from surplus profits of immobilized russian assets.
ChloeTzang
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ChloeTzang
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Ukraine War: Putin's Autumn Spoiling Campaign
With major offensive efforts constantly coming up short, Putin's orc generals are fighting to prevent Ukraine from gaining an edge heading into 2025. Delay and pray is Putin's last, best hope.It is increasingly clear that Putin’s war effort is slowly but surely grinding to a pathetic end, barring access to a lot of new resources soon. The failure of Putin’s generals to break through in Kharkiv this May and June or reverse Ukraine’s Kursk Campaign in August and September heralds the end of the threat of the orcs generating a steamroller sufficient to break Ukraine’s defenses in a strategic sense. Battles remain difficult on many fronts, and Moscow can still move forward, but overall there is little coherence between Moscow’s pushes beyond the desire to tax Ukraine as much as possible. That rarely works: it’s almost the very absence of strategy.
Putin is being forced to convert the war into a gigantic replay of the fighting on the old line of contact, hoping political winds turn his way and China boosts support. He’s bluffing that russia can do this forever, relying on acolytes abroad to spread the message that russia is “good at war” and can tolerate limitless losses. This is stale propaganda designed to give the craven an excuse to propose surrender when russia makes demands. By provoking conflicts around the world, from both sides if he can, Putin aims to isolate Ukraine from multiple angles. By giving US bureaucrats an excuse to hoard weapons in case there’s a new contingency, Putin prevents Ukraine’s military from fully reforming. Making nuclear threats is part of the play, as is allies abroad suggesting that anyone who disregards Putin’s bluster is a covert warmonger or irresponsible. Talking up giving the Houthis better missiles is too.
30-40,000 ruscist soldiers are killed or wounded every month all so Putin can pretend that he can’t lose long enough for his enemies to finally hand him a ceasefire. It won’t hold, and if one were signed he’d be right back to insisting that it’s Ukraine refusing to honor the deal, making Ukrainian efforts to defend their own remaining look like they’re risking what semblance of peace has been restored. He also has to throw his people away - also equipment that’s getting older and less available all the time - to drain Ukraine’s combat power as much as possible before 2025.
Ukraine is building up a wave of counteroffensives that should reach a crescendo next year, isolating Crimea and hopefully surrounding urban Donbas. If necessary, Ukrainian offensives will press into russia, bringing military facilities in Belgorod and Rostov-on-Don under temporary occupation. Slowly but surely, much like the Union did to the Confederacy in the American Civil War, Ukrainian forces will split the enemy’s armies apart and, once isolated, reduce them one by one. It’s a long road ahead, and the first essential step is grinding Moscow’s latest round of assaults to a halt. When the leaves are off the trees in a month or two, a combination of improved Ukrainian counter-drone activity targeting Moscow’s eyes over the battlefield and Ukraine’s own attack drones could allow Ukrainian troops to systematically overwhelm enemy positions in swift mechanized assaults........
https://roguesystemsrecon.substack....ue&isFreemail=true&r=c5g4v&triedRedirect=true
ChloeTzang
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ChloeTzang
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According to unconfirmed information, Russian Army General A.V. Dvornikov, the former commander of the Southern Military District from September 20, 2016 to January 23, 2023, was among the killed following a Ukrainian UAV strike on the Russian airfield at Yeisk (Yeysk?) after arrival. The strike targeted a storage site for Kinzhal missiles. Guess the war criminal was a bonus.
