For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[Rightguide]

Meanwhile, as we demand the Ukrainians sacrifice themselves upon the Russian defensive belt here's what our Army is concerned about:

 

[ll74]

Meanwhile, as we demand the Ukrainians sacrifice themselves upon the Russian defensive belt here's what our Army is concerned about:

Your disdain for our military is noted.

 

[Rightguide]

Your disdain for our military is noted.

I save my distain for the woke leadership of our military and for any man who would walk around in high heels and think they aren't diminishing the their uniform in the eyes of our enemies. In our military there is no room for anything or anybody who isn't involved in killing the enemies of the United States and breaking all of their stuff. That's the primary job, nothing else.

 

[ll74]

I save my distain for the woke leadership of our military and for any man who would walk around in high heels and think they aren't diminishing the their uniform in the eyes of our enemies. In our military there is no room for anything or anybody who isn't involved in killing the enemies of the United States and breaking all of their stuff. That's the primary job, nothing else.

So when they aren't killing anyone, they arent doing their job.

Interesting take.

 

[StepMomSteph]

Apparently RG and friends never finished high school. They could have learned about Chamberlain giving Hitler Czechoslovakia.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/chamberlain-and-hitler/

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

New poll from CNN.

CNN Poll: Majority of Americans oppose more US aid for Ukraine in war with Russia​

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/politics/cnn-poll-ukraine/index.html

 

[Rightguide]

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-august-2-2023

I just discovered these guys. Not sure how interested anyone is about the Ukraine conflict but these seem to be the most thorough and least politicized reports I've found.

I've mentioned them earlier in the thread. Four-star general Jack Keene is the chairman of ISW. They are thorough but they are pretty much in line with the Pentagon. I would balance them with other sources, American and European. Let's face it, our government has almost total control of the US media messaging on the war. This is why you aren't hearing about the military debacle that is unfolding in Ukraine.

It's very clear the administration is looking for an off-ramp as are the Europeans, especially the Germans. Nato is all but dead, it's totally fractured. 32 member nations and only two or three committed to major contributions, the rest have their own interests. The Poles and the Lithuanians are already talking about taking "independent" action. which of course cannot be independent because they are members of Nato and any action they take will be seen by the Russians as an attack by Nato which could lead to real war in Europe which Nato is incapable of fighting.

So what is the result of the Biden effort in Ukraine? Nato is fractured, Ukraine is destroyed, tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians are dead, and Russia now has the largest army on the ground in Europe backed up by the largest nuclear arsenal in the World and is totally uninterested in returning any of the territories they have taken. To top it all off the President who in the beginning didn't want a negotiated settlement, wanted only to destroy the Russian economy, bring down its leader, and diminish the Russian military, finds himself weakened physically, politically, economically, and militarily with little option but to tell Zelensky to negotiate with the Russians for what s left of Ukraine, and pray he will. Good job Joe.

 

[Rotadom]

I've mentioned them earlier in the thread. Four-star general Jack Keene is the chairman of ISW. They are thorough but they are pretty much in line with the Pentagon. I would balance them with other sources, American and European. Let's face it, our government has almost total control of the US media messaging on the war. This is why you aren't hearing about the military debacle that is unfolding in Ukraine.

It's very clear the administration is looking for an off-ramp as are the Europeans, especially the Germans. Nato is all but dead, it's totally fractured. 32 member nations and only two or three committed to major contributions, the rest have their own interests. The Poles and the Lithuanians are already talking about taking "independent" action. which of course cannot be independent because they are members of Nato and any action they take will be seen by the Russians as an attack by Nato which could lead to real war in Europe which Nato is incapable of fighting.

So what is the result of the Biden effort in Ukraine? Nato is fractured, Ukraine is destroyed, tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians are dead, and Russia now has the largest army on the ground in Europe backed up by the largest nuclear arsenal in the World and is totally uninterested in returning any of the territories they have taken. To top it all off the President who in the beginning didn't want a negotiated settlement, wanted only to destroy the Russian economy, bring down its leader, and diminish the Russian military, finds himself weakened physically, politically, economically, and militarily with little option but to tell Zelensky to negotiate with the Russians for what s left of Ukraine, and pray he will. Good job Joe.

The result has very little to do with anything President Biden has done or didn't do.

Normal people see this.

 

[Raazor]

I've mentioned them earlier in the thread. Four-star general Jack Keene is the chairman of ISW. They are thorough but they are pretty much in line with the Pentagon. I would balance them with other sources, American and European. Let's face it, our government has almost total control of the US media messaging on the war. This is why you aren't hearing about the military debacle that is unfolding in Ukraine.

It's very clear the administration is looking for an off-ramp as are the Europeans, especially the Germans. Nato is all but dead, it's totally fractured. 32 member nations and only two or three committed to major contributions, the rest have their own interests. The Poles and the Lithuanians are already talking about taking "independent" action. which of course cannot be independent because they are members of Nato and any action they take will be seen by the Russians as an attack by Nato which could lead to real war in Europe which Nato is incapable of fighting.

So what is the result of the Biden effort in Ukraine? Nato is fractured, Ukraine is destroyed, tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians are dead, and Russia now has the largest army on the ground in Europe backed up by the largest nuclear arsenal in the World and is totally uninterested in returning any of the territories they have taken. To top it all off the President who in the beginning didn't want a negotiated settlement, wanted only to destroy the Russian economy, bring down its leader, and diminish the Russian military, finds himself weakened physically, politically, economically, and militarily with little option but to tell Zelensky to negotiate with the Russians for what s left of Ukraine, and pray he will. Good job Joe.

NATO isn’t fractured. NATO is expanding. The Russian army which fondly imagined it could take Ukraine in three days is still trying a year later and wouldn’t last five minutes in a war with NATO forces. The Russians don’t have the equipment, the training or the leadership.

All Russia has left is numbers to waste on the battlefield and launching sporadic missile attacks at civilian targets - which has no military value and only hardens Ukrainian resolve.

I know you live in some bizarro alternative reality, but fuck me, surely some honest to god facts must occasionally penetrate your delusional bubble.

 

[Rightguide]

NATO isn’t fractured. NATO is expanding. The Russian army which fondly imagined it could take Ukraine in three days is still trying a year later and wouldn’t last five minutes in a war with NATO forces. The Russians don’t have the equipment, the training or the leadership.

All Russia has left is numbers to waste on the battlefield and launching sporadic missile attacks at civilian targets - which has no military value and only hardens Ukrainian resolve.

I know you live in some bizarro alternative reality, but fuck me, surely some honest to god facts must occasionally penetrate your delusional bubble.

You're too ignorant and uninformed to participate in this conversation. Nato is fractured, it is a paper tiger. It is nowhere near what it was in the 60s and 70s. Not even close. Ask the Germans, French, or British, if any of them are ready for a ground war with the Russians. Then get back to us.

 

[Rotadom]

Ask the Germans, French, or British, if any of them are ready for a ground war with the Russians. Then get back to us.

What did they say when you asked them?

Just stop with your Russian propaganda.

 

[ll74]

You're too ignorant and uninformed to participate in this conversation. Nato is fractured, it is a paper tiger. It is nowhere near what it was in the 60s and 70s. Not even close. Ask the Germans, French, or British, if any of them are ready for a ground war with the Russians. Then get back to us.

So not having a ground war with Russia indicates that NATO is fractured? Or not being ready for one based on what?

 

[Raazor]

You're too ignorant and uninformed to participate in this conversation. Nato is fractured, it is a paper tiger. It is nowhere near what it was in the 60s and 70s. Not even close. Ask the Germans, French, or British, if any of them are ready for a ground war with the Russians. Then get back to us.

Finland and Sweden have recently applied to join NATO.

The Russian army couldn’t take Ukraine - it got bitch slapped back to the 2014 demarcation lines. The Ukrainians have even sunk Russian ships and it doesn’t even have a fucking Navy!

Fighting Ukraine, Poland, Finland and Romania? Their forces would be in Moscow within 48 hours. And that is without French, Italian or British forces and then there is the daddy of then all - US forces. Do you have any conception of how superior US firepower is compared to the rest? The US is the only genuine superpower on the fucking planet.

The Russian army is riddled with corruption and is barely fit for purpose. You simply have no idea of what you are talking about. It is profound ignorance on an epic scale.

 

[RandyRebecca]

New poll from CNN.

CNN Poll: Majority of Americans oppose more US aid for Ukraine in war with Russia​

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/politics/cnn-poll-ukraine/index.html

Excellent. About time.

 

[Bray123]

Meanwhile, as we demand the Ukrainians sacrifice themselves upon the Russian defensive belt here's what our Army is concerned about:

Incorrect.

What the military is concerned about is the lack of senior officers. Republicans are blocking the promotions processes because they think that will 'own the libs'.

 

[Raazor]

Russia is a nuclear power. Do you honestly believe Putin wouldn’t use them if his own Country was being attacked?

Russia is currently being attacked. What the tipping point is for use of nuclear weapons is unknown. No country is going to initiate a war with Russia, but Russia is dumb enough to provoke aggression.

In a convention war, Russia is no match for a combination of forces from other European countries. Frankly, I doubt if it is a match for, say, Polish forces. We were given a clue as to how Russian equipment would perform when Turkey intervened in Syria. The idea that Russia is some military superpower is rooted in myth. There was a well trained and professional core, but that has been eroded in Ukraine. Most of the Russian army is poorly trained recruits and often badly equipped. Looks good on paper, but that’s about it.

On a side note, when people discuss NATO, Turkey gets overlooked, but it is the second largest force in NATO after the US with around 750,000 personnel.

 

[Dunes_et_Soleil]

New poll from CNN.

CNN Poll: Majority of Americans oppose more US aid for Ukraine in war with Russia​

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/politics/cnn-poll-ukraine/index.html

Like anyone will ask for their approval.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Like anyone will ask for their approval.

The significance of the poll in my opinion is that eroding public support is a big deal. It means that Ukraine must achieve a decisive change in the war’s momentum very quickly or face a disastrous loss of weapons and financial support. I remain supportive of US aid but am increasingly convinced too much time has been wasted dithering over the type, pace, and magnitude of weapons and ammo delivery.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Like anyone will ask for their approval.

A lack of public support for a current war is a constant drain on government morale, though. And superior morale is the decisive factor in warfare, even more so than superior resources and equipment.

 

[Rightguide]

Finland and Sweden have recently applied to join NATO.

The Russian army couldn’t take Ukraine - it got bitch slapped back to the 2014 demarcation lines. The Ukrainians have even sunk Russian ships and it doesn’t even have a fucking Navy!

Fighting Ukraine, Poland, Finland and Romania? Their forces would be in Moscow within 48 hours. And that is without French, Italian or British forces and then there is the daddy of then all - US forces. Do you have any conception of how superior US firepower is compared to the rest? The US is the only genuine superpower on the fucking planet.

The Russian army is riddled with corruption and is barely fit for purpose. You simply have no idea of what you are talking about. It is profound ignorance on an epic scale.

You're way too uninformed on current events and outright ignorant of military issues either in Nato, the US, or Russia, to speak on the subject.

 

[Dunes_et_Soleil]

A lack of public support for a current war is a constant drain on government morale, though. And superior morale is the decisive factor in warfare, even more so than superior resources and equipment.

Naturally you are correct that a lack of support is not helpful, yet I believe that the war is financial in nature and this has not run its course. There is still a fair bit to be 'donated' such as F16s, vampire anti drone equipment, atacms. A lot of this is new equipment and the allocated funds will flow from your pocket to the government tax office and on to the MIC. Was there a vote on all of this before? If so, I must have missed it.

 

[Rightguide]

Russia is a nuclear power. Do you honestly believe Putin wouldn’t use them if his own Country was being attacked?

Engaging that person is a waste of time and effort. He doesn't have a clue about current military technology, capability, strategy, or the situation on the ground in Ukraine. He has zero understanding of the current status of forces in Ukraine, Russia, Nato, or the US.

 

[Rightguide]

Naturally you are correct that a lack of support is not helpful, yet I believe that the war is financial in nature and this has not run its course. There is still a fair bit to be 'donated' such as F16s, vampire anti drone equipment, atacms. A lot of this is new equipment and the allocated funds will flow from your pocket to the government tax office and on to the MIC. Was there a vote on all of this before? If so, I must have missed it.

You're thinking in WWII terms. F-16s will not help Ukraine. Even if they received them and even if we were flying them they'd be shot out of the sky. The Russians, just as we do, have layered integrated air defense systems on the ground that would have to be totally taken down prior to those flights. The only answer here is "stealth" and that's why we developed it. However, we won't be giving any of that technology to Ukraine. Remember, all of our wars since WWII have not been fought against peer adversaries. Despite the BS you read in the Wapo and the NYTs, the Russians are a peer adversary. They have ISR similar to ours, they can look down and see everything on the ground, and as soon as it is seen to be assembling in a certain location they have long-range nuclear and conventional stand-off strike systems that can instantly take it under fire, just like we can. When you understand this you can better understand why certain elements in the US government and in Nato are more than ready to fight this war right down to the last Ukrainian soldier instead of their own.

 

[Rightguide]

From one of the great strategic minds of our time:

FOREIGN AFFAIRS

Make Peace, You Fools!​

America’s proxy war with Russia has transformed Ukraine into a graveyard.

Douglas Macgregor
Aug 1, 2023 1:00 PM

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/make-peace-you-fools/

 

[Rightguide]

When you start seeing the NYTs coming to its senses you can bet the US is looking for an excuse to blame Ukraine for its policy failures:

Ukrainians trained by the US stumble in battle

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/us/politics/ukraine-troops-counteroffensive-training.html

You can go here to India to escape the NYTs paywall for a synopsis of the Times article and its concerns. Note the article's date is presented in the "day first" dating system used in India:

Ukraine’s Counteroffensive Is not Going According to Plan, Say U.S. Media
in World — by Countercurrents Collective — 03/08/2023

https://countercurrents.org/2023/08...is-not-going-according-to-plan-say-u-s-media/

You will see much more coverage in this article than you will in any US major media article about Ukraine.