For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[ll74]

And the fact that Ukraine at the time was discriminating against its Russian-speaking citizens in the Donbass and had killed some 14,000 of them prior to the Russian invasion.

Except for the left.out part where those Russians were actively attacking the Ukranian government when they died.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

It's all we have, the bones of our fathers are in the dirt.

The bones of some of our fathers are in the dirt for different reasons.

You don't like hearing about the truth and verity of those reasons when we tell it because it's the truth and verity of America. And that's how we know about you.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Except for the left.out part where those Russians were actively attacking the Ukranian government when they died.

Uh, what? Putin didn't even recognize the Donbass republics until February 2022. Those republics were set up in 2014 because they didn't wish to fall under Kiev's control after the coup, and no wonder when Kiev showed such hatred for Russians. For 8 years, Putin just stood by and watched, placing faith in the "Minsk Accords" which NATO and Euromaidan Ukraine showed completely contempt for. Former German leader, Angela Merkel, said that the Minsk Accords were to buy Ukraine time to arm itself against Russia.

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/merkel:-minsk-agreement-attempted-to-give-ukraine-time

 

[ll74]

Uh, what? Putin didn't even recognize the Donbass republics until February 2022. Those republics were set up in 2014 because they didn't wish to fall under Kiev's control after the coup, and no wonder when Kiev showed such hatred for Russians. For 8 years, Putin just stood by and watched, placing faith in the "Minsk Accords" which NATO and Euromaidan Ukraine showed completely contempt for. Former German leader, Angela Merkel, said that the Minsk Accords were to buy Ukraine time to arm itself against Russia.

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/merkel:-minsk-agreement-attempted-to-give-ukraine-time

He had operatives inside Ukraine actively attacking Ukraine before 2014.

 

[RandyRebecca]

He had operatives inside Ukraine actively attacking Ukraine before 2014.

All the big powers have operatives in foreign countries, FFS. The US has military bases across the world, which surround Russia and China from every direction, hemming them in. Some people then have the audacity to say that any pushback is "unprovoked".

And have you heard of the Monroe Doctrine? What does it say? Is it worse than what Russia does around its borders?

 

[ll74]

All the big powers have operatives in foreign countries, FFS. The US has military bases across the world, which surround Russia and China from every direction, hemming them in. Some people then have the audacity to say that any pushback is "unprovoked".

And have you heard of the Monroe Doctrine? What does it say? Is it worse than what Russia does around its borders?

So it's cool if the Russians do it because everybody does it, but not cool if the US does it.

And you wonder why we call you out for this bullshit.

 

[RandyRebecca]

So it's cool if the Russians do it because everybody does it, but not cool if the US does it.

And you wonder why we call you out for this bullshit.

The US do more of it than anybody. Do you know how many coups have been attempted by the Pentagon, State Department, CIA, NED and the likes since WW2 alone? Most infamously, the Iran-Contra scandal in the 1980s. They spend our money on all this nonsense.

 

[ll74]

The US do more of it than anybody. Do you know how many coups have been attempted by the Pentagon, State Department, CIA, NED and the likes since WW2 alone? Most infamously, the Iran-Contra scandal in the 1980s. They spend our money on all this nonsense.

No, they don't.

I get it, you don't like the US involved globally. Either we are the leader or we aren't.

You continue to be simple minded in your logic. It's not ever a simple choice. And isolationism is not a beneficial foreign policy to any country on Earth

 

[RandyRebecca]

No, they don't.

I get it, you don't like the US involved globally. Either we are the leader or we aren't.

You continue to be simple minded in your logic. It's not ever a simple choice. And isolationism is not a beneficial foreign policy to any country on Earth

We? Who is we? I've told you, it's the US billionaires, not ordinary Americans.

And isolation is not what I'm talking about. More about recognizing that classes have interests. American workers have more in common with workers in Mexico, Canada, Britain, Germany, Russia etc. than with US billionaires. "National unity" is class collaboration with the billionaires.

 

[Lazaran]

According to the article there is a shortage, so I don't see how that would lead to 'taking the jobs from citizens of North Dakota'. More oil means more revenue and that, one would expect, is good for the state.

•
Phrodeau was actually making a not so subtle point about how well Ukrainian migrants are being treated / portrayed, compared to how some “other” migrants fleeing brutal and dangerous conditions are being treated / portrayed.

Hope ^ that helps.

 

[Chernosoth]

Either we are the leader or we aren't.

We aren't. Most of the world is ignoring the attempt to sanction Russia.

 

[Bray123]

This is where people are going wrong. There was a coup in Ukraine in 2014, where the democratically elected government was overthrown. Two of the biggest parties in the country were later outlawed, including the the pre-coup ruling party the Party of Regions. That is what destroyed democracy in Ukraine. The Euromaidan regime was to assist US imperialism's designs against Russia for continued global hegemony. The ultimate aim is to balkanize Russia and cause splits in China.

Calling Viktor Yanukovych democratically elected is much like calling Trump democratically elected today.

He imprisoned his political opponents and then fled to Russia where he still lives protected by Putin. He was disowned by his own party and has multiple convictions for fraud, bribery and treason. He was wanted by Interpol for mass murder although that warrant has been suspended (the people are still dead though).

Zelenskyy is an actual democratically elected president with popular support.

 

[ll74]

We? Who is we? I've told you, it's the US billionaires, not ordinary Americans.

We = America. That includes everyone. Our government represents us in the world

And isolation is not what I'm talking about. More about recognizing that classes have interests. American workers have more in common with workers in Mexico, Canada, Britain, Germany, Russia etc. than with US billionaires. "National unity" is class collaboration with the billionaires.

Bullshit. National unity means we are a country because we are citizens who push for common goals. It may not be 100% what everyone wants, but that's why we have elections. There will never be socialism in our country unless the current country is ended. And the only way workers first attitudes happens is if enough people vote for those policies.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

And Agent Orange, White Phosphorus, like what was used in Vietnam? Are those harmless too, in your opinion?

No, but were also not debating AO, Wille P, but 20 points for the goal post move.

How about in North Korea in the early 1950s, when every single building was flattened and 20% of the population killed? Douglas MacArthur still wanted to drop nuclear bombs. Think about that when you wonder why North Koreans are suspicious of Americans.

Hmm I seem to recall that want of MacArthur ended his career too. Extra 10 bonus points for this goal post move.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Calling Viktor Yanukovych democratically elected is much like calling Trump democratically elected today.

Yanukovich was democratically elected. I suggest that you look at the links below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Ukrainian_parliamentary_election

The Euromaidan coup, which the US federal and secret service authorities supported, overthrew the democratically elected president and government and enforced a Russophobic government that started a war against people in the east of the country. The most crime of the plotters was burning down the trade union building in Odessa, killing everyone inside, either by flame, smoke or beating them to death on the outside. Nobody has been held accountable for this crime to this day. Yanukovich was forced to flee to Russia.

Donald Trump is mostly hot air by comparison.

He imprisoned his political opponents and then fled to Russia where he still lives protected by Putin.

Does the name Eugene Debs ring any bell? Imprisoned by Woodrow Wilson, who never won the majority of the popular vote in a presidential election.

He was disowned by his own party and has multiple convictions for fraud, bribery and treason. He was wanted by Interpol for mass murder although that warrant has been suspended (the people are still dead though).

Zelenskyy is an actual democratically elected president with popular support.

His Party was subdued and later illegalized, because he chose a trade deal with Russia over a trade deal with the EU. The coup was destroying democracy, not building it.

And Zelensky was elected on a platform of rapprochement with the Russians after the time of Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk. Has that happened?

 

[RandyRebecca]

We = America. That includes everyone. Our government represents us in the world

No. Class is the real division, not nationality.

Bullshit. National unity means we are a country because we are citizens who push for common goals.

Workers struggling to make ends meet have the same goals as billionaires? Ridiculous.

It may not be 100% what everyone wants, but that's why we have elections. There will never be socialism in our country unless the current country is ended. And the only way workers first attitudes happens is if enough people vote for those policies.

Ending the ridiculous culture war nonsense would help. It's the equivalent of circus clowns sent in to distract the audience.

 

[Dunes_et_Soleil]

We aren't. Most of the world is ignoring the attempt to sanction Russia.

I put the end of the US hegemony at the time of the failed joint attack on Syria. Both the UK and France had joined in and, unless I have misled, Trump announced that the 'intervention' would last 2 to 3 weeks but only lasted for a couple of days. It was a failure that never was reported on but people noticed.

 

[ll74]

No. Class is the real division, not nationality.

I wasnt talking about division, you were.

Workers struggling to make ends meet have the same goals as billionaires? Ridiculous.

Sounds like you're saying that you will only work with someone you 100% agree with.

Neat.

Ending the ridiculous culture war nonsense would help. It's the equivalent of circus clowns sent in to distract the audience.

Yah, people do shit you don't like.

For example, I don't like that you oversimplify everything and combine it into a stupid class warfare struggle that you are a victim of and support autocratic dictators who's hellbent on bringing back the Soviet Union.

 

[RandyRebecca]

For example, I don't like that you oversimplify everything and combine it into a stupid class warfare struggle that you are a victim of and support autocratic dictators who's hellbent on bringing back the Soviet Union.

If Putin represents anything from Russia's past, it is Tsarism, not the Soviet Union. Putin regularly attacks Lenin for giving Ukraine autonomy in the early Soviet days, and for pulling Russia out of the imperialist quagmire of WW1.

 

[ll74]

If Putin represents anything from Russia's past, it is Tsarism, not the Soviet Union.

I didn't say that he represented anything.

 

[RandyRebecca]

I didn't say that he represented anything.

"Hellbent on bringing back the Soviet Union", you said. If you want to make such a historical analogy, hellbent on bringing back the Russian Empire would be much closer to the truth, but still not accurate.

 

[ll74]

"Hellbent on bringing back the Soviet Union", you said. If you want to make such a historical analogy, hellbent on bringing back the Russian Empire would be much closer to the truth, but still not accurate.

It wasn't an analogy.

 

[StepMomSteph]

Another good youtube channel RG hopes his minions don't know about.

https://www.youtube.com/@MeidasTouch

 

[Rightguide]

Another good youtube channel RG hopes his minions don't know about.

https://www.youtube.com/@MeidasTouch

I've seen their videos but I'm interested in the facts from sources on the ground in Europe and in Ukraine.

 

[ll74]

Lol....facts