For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[Rightguide]

"Hellbent on bringing back the Soviet Union", you said. If you want to make such a historical analogy, hellbent on bringing back the Russian Empire would be much closer to the truth, but still not accurate.

Russia at present doesn't compare with the Soviet Union it's more like Czarist Russia of old with new technology.

 

[schism666]

Lol....facts

do you believe the videos or his lyin' eyes?

 

[Rightguide]

Most Americans don’t want Congress to approve more aid for Ukraine war
Most say the US has ‘done enough’ to stop Russian actions, too.
AUGUST 4, 2023

Written by
Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

The majority of Americans polled do not want to supply more U.S. aid for the war in Ukraine, according to a new survey by CNN/SSRS released today.

According to the data, 55 percent of Americans do not think Congress “should authorize additional funding to support Ukraine in the war with Russia,” while 45 percent said Congress should approve more.

Another 51 percent say the U.S. has “done enough” to “stop Russian actions in Ukraine,” while 48 said Washington has not done enough.

For comparison, according to CNN, 62 percent of Americans polled just after Ukraine was invaded said the U.S. should be doing more.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2...congress-to-approve-more-aid-for-ukraine-war/

The truth of what is happening in Ukraine is beginning to dawn on the American people.

 

[ll74]

Most Americans don’t want Congress to approve more aid for Ukraine war
Most say the US has ‘done enough’ to stop Russian actions, too.
AUGUST 4, 2023

Written by
Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

The majority of Americans polled do not want to supply more U.S. aid for the war in Ukraine, according to a new survey by CNN/SSRS released today.

According to the data, 55 percent of Americans do not think Congress “should authorize additional funding to support Ukraine in the war with Russia,” while 45 percent said Congress should approve more.

Another 51 percent say the U.S. has “done enough” to “stop Russian actions in Ukraine,” while 48 said Washington has not done enough.

For comparison, according to CNN, 62 percent of Americans polled just after Ukraine was invaded said the U.S. should be doing more.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2...congress-to-approve-more-aid-for-ukraine-war/

The truth of what is happening in Ukraine is beginning to dawn on the American people.

What's happening in Ukraine is that Russia invaded and continues to wrongfully attack its citizens.

 

[Rightguide]

What's happening in Ukraine is that Russia invaded and continues to wrongfully attack its citizens.

Tell it to the graveyard that is Ukraine. Remind yourself they followed our wishes, our assurances that if they followed our advice, took our arms support and training, they would defeat the incompetent Russian military, and remove the dictator Putin, only now their army is broken, the cause is lost, and their country is a wasteland, and Russia still occupies what it took over a year ago with a bigger force than it has in decades.

 

[ll74]

Tell it to the graveyard that is Ukraine. Remind yourself they followed our wishes, our assurances that if they followed our advice, took our arms support and training, they would defeat the incompetent Russian military, and remove the dictator Putin, only now their army is broken, the cause is lost, and their country is a wasteland, and Russia still occupies what it took over a year ago with a bigger force than it has in decades.

The people of Ukraine know full well who to blame for the bodies that have racked up. They never asked for Russia to invade. Russia is the aggressor here no matter how many times you blame others.

Russia annexed land that wasn't theirs and invaded a country specifically to harm their interests.

 

[RandyRebecca]

What's happening in Ukraine is that Russia invaded and continues to wrongfully attack its citizens.

What did you say about Iraq 2003 and US forces? Did the same logic apply then?

 

[ll74]

What did you say about Iraq 2003 and US forces? Did the same logic apply then?

I didn't say the same thing about the Iraq invasion because I was several decades younger and less educated. I do believe Iraq is better off without Saddam as their leader. I wish the change in leadership would've happened differently.

 

[Rightguide]

Anyone notice how little information about the war in Ukraine is available on the news channels these days?

 

[RandyRebecca]

Anyone notice how little information about the war in Ukraine is available on the news channels these days?

An attempt at mass brainwashing.

 

[Rightguide]

An attempt at mass brainwashing.

I see that Zelensky has fired all regional military recruitment Chiefs. I wonder if they've run out of men. They've been using press gangs to drag men off the streets to send to the front.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I see that Zelensky has fired all regional military recruitment Chiefs. I wonder if they've run out of men. They've been using press gangs to drag men off the streets to send to the front.

The bold portion is why Zelensky fired them.....

 

[ChloeTzang]

Anyone notice how little information about the war in Ukraine is available on the news channels these days?

A lot of that is Operational Security, something the Ukrainians are very very good at, and very very conscious of, because it's Ukrainian soldiers that die when stuff gets said that should not have been said. Personally, I would far rather see lees dead Ukrainian soldiers than some feel good news on US media to make people without any skin in the game feel better able to say "see, I told you so."

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Anyone notice how little information about the war in Ukraine is available on the news channels these days?

Plenty of information in the news, if you know where to look. Sadly you only look in the far right reaches of the "alternate reality" news sources....

 

[ChloeTzang]

I see that Zelensky has fired all regional military recruitment Chiefs. I wonder if they've run out of men. They've been using press gangs to drag men off the streets to send to the front.

Bullshit. Zelensky is clamping down on corruption, everywhere, and Ukraine State Security is doing a pretty good job now of finding these guys and arresting them. Their apparently was corruption in these regional military recruitment offices, some have already been arrested, some are being investigated, but the game plan that has been announced is to replace them with wounded veterans from the frontlines. Which is an example to everyone! These new guys have been at the front, they have been severely wounded, they know the sacrifices soldiers make and are expected to make, and they will be far better for the job than the old REMF's. Nothing to do with running out of men. They have backlogs of volunteers - the limiting factor now is their ability to train and equip them.

 

[ChloeTzang]

What's happening in Ukraine is that Russia invaded and continues to wrongfully attack its citizens.

And we are STILL not doing enough to help them, and we slow-tracked aid back a year ago, when if we'd fast-tracked it, the ZSU would have had the weapons to really hammer the Orcs before they managed to put their fortification lines in. And we are STILL slow-tracking F16's.

 

[Rightguide]

Bullshit. Zelensky is clamping down on corruption, everywhere, and Ukraine State Security is doing a pretty good job now of finding these guys and arresting them. Their apparently was corruption in these regional military recruitment offices, some have already been arrested, some are being investigated, but the game plan that has been announced is to replace them with wounded veterans from the frontlines. Which is an example to everyone! These new guys have been at the front, they have been severely wounded, they know the sacrifices soldiers make and are expected to make, and they will be far better for the job than the old REMF's. Nothing to do with running out of men. They have backlogs of volunteers - the limiting factor now is their ability to train and equip them.

It's obvious the Ukrainian government itself is corrupt and before the war was recognized as one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. So every one of his Recruitment Chiefs was corrupt? Ukrainian officials have stolen millions of dollars f US aid. In January CIA Director Burns went to Kyiv to tell Zelensky he was skimming too much of our money and even presented him with a list of thirty-five Generals and officials who were known to the CIA to be stealing our aid money. The place is corrupt...and it's losing this war. Over half of what we gave them has already been destroyed.

 

[Rightguide]

A lot of that is Operational Security, something the Ukrainians are very very good at, and very very conscious of, because it's Ukrainian soldiers that die when stuff gets said that should not have been said. Personally, I would far rather see lees dead Ukrainian soldiers than some feel good news on US media to make people without any skin in the game feel better able to say "see, I told you so."

Operational security hasn't stopped our media from reporting on any war in detail since Korea. The only operational secret in this war is that Ukraine is being defeated in great detail.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Operational security hasn't stopped our media from reporting on any war in detail since Korea. The only operational secret in this war is that Ukraine is being defeated in great detail.

"Our" media have no concern for OpSec, cost numerous soldiers their lives, and they should have been executed for it. The Ukraine military are far more security-conscious, and as for defeated in detail....lol. No way.

Analysis of the Ukrainian counter-offensive so far Or how to disagree with editors sitting in a newsroom in New York or Washington:1. "The counteroffensive is going badly compared to expectations".

1.1 We'd better define expectations first, right? Expectations mean what? Reaching the Sea of Azov in 60 days? Flushing the Russians out of Ukraine next week? Putin surrendering tomorrow?Example of a difficult situation and its duration: After the Normandy landings (codenamed Neptune - part of Operation Overlord) publicly known as D-Day, the stabilization of the front and the breakthrough from the beachhead happened with the completion of the Battle of Caen. Do you know when this was completed? On 6 August 1944. That's exactly two months after the Normandy landings.Operation Overlord, as the Battle for Normandy was called, lasted almost 3 months and involved over 2 million Allied troops against an estimated 600,000 troops of Nazi Germany.

1.2 By comparison, the start of this counteroffensive began with shaping actions, and recon-in-force in late May, early June, and now came up against the most formidable fortified defensive line of the contemporary era of warfare: the Surovikin Line. I know, we like to underestimate our opponents. I don't.The Surovikin Line is composed of several layers, successive lines each serving several objectives. Some, the front ones, allow for elastic Russian defenses, raids, lightning Russian counterattacks, and diversions, without using their reserves in the rear lines. The middle ones protect the front lines and are the best fortified. The complexity of these defensive lines (trenches, antitank trenches, dragon's teeth) is beyond the scope of this post. But I can assure you that from what we can all see from Maxar, and Sentinel satellites, and from what information is coming in from the field, the Russians have created an almost impenetrable system of fortifications. I stress ALMOST! Ukraine will demonstrate by late fall once again that the impossible will be possible.Give save to this post and berate me for my optimism at the end of the year, not now, that now many are berating me without any real arguments.

1.3 Also by comparison: when did the counter-offensive in Harkiv start last year? In the second week of September and ended in October. The Harkiv counteroffensive will be etched in history for its sheer magnitude, spanning hundreds of kilometers and occurring simultaneously with another counterattack: the Herson counteroffensive. The Herson counteroffensive was several hundred kilometers long, and it was running at the same time. For those who are interested in what this extraordinary thing is, I would ask them to look for any two counter-offensives, executed simultaneously, on two fronts a thousand miles apart and which counter-offensives, both of them to succeed.I would like us to take a breath, take a deep breath, and read the last paragraph again. Then let's ask ourselves one more time whether Ukraine understands anything about this war or not. I think it not only understands but understands more than those sitting in an office in New York or London do.

2. "Ukraine does not use tactics and training learned in the West".

2.1 It was shocking to read this from journalists in the civilized West. Sometimes I get the impression that they not only don't understand what is going on in Eastern Europe and beyond, but in the extreme and uncivilized East of Europe (here I mean from the eastern border of Ukraine to the further east - that is the land of uncivilization). But not only do they not seem to understand this, they do not seem to have read a single page of Soviet military doctrine, American military doctrine, or Western European military doctrine.Why do I say that, without trying to offend anyone? Because American, Western doctrine in general is based on air supremacy or at least air superiority. An often-used example of a successful ground operation, forgetting the air side: Operation Desert Storm had a massive initial air phase, on a scale unimaginable until Operation Shock and Awe, which lasted about two weeks, in which US and allied states against Iraq destroyed absolutely everything that could be destroyed in terms of military infrastructure, military logistics and knocked out Iraqi supply lines. Only then did phase two begin, where over 700,000 troops from dozens of countries invaded Iraq and where the Bradley M2A2 ODS proved it could blow a T-72 to smithereens (in fact, it was the main "culprit" for destroying Iraqi tanks, contrary to the myth known to the West that the Ambrams M1A1 or A-10 Thunderbold (nicknamed the "tank killer") would be the ones to destroy the most tanks).In Operation Desert Storm, the Iraqis had no fortified positions left standing after the massive US and Allied air campaign, no intact supply routes, and no ammunition dumps. They were practically in hell, but Saddam was willing to see the fight through to the end, and this resulted in the total annihilation of Iraqi armor that had come into conflict with thousands of Allied armor.

2.2 [Imaginary dialogue with an editor of a Western publication who can indulge in bombastic headlines for the sake of coverage] Does Ukraine have air supremacy? No. But if it doesn't have air supremacy, does it at least have air superiority? No. But if it doesn't have air superiority in general, at least in specific sectors of the front over 1200 km, does it? No. Then why are you still talking about the Ukrainians not implementing Western doctrine? First of all, if we Westerners gave them F-16s (at least with Block 50 avionics) in sufficient numbers (not 16, 20, 50), we could then talk about a crossing over the Surovikin Line much easier for the Ukrainians to accomplish, with much less loss of equipment and ESPECIALLY with much less loss of life. So, my dear imaginary editor who likes bombastic headlines, before you write them, consider the following: Ukraine has no air superiority or supremacy. It doesn't have enough anti-mine vehicles. It does not have enough thermal imaging and night vision equipment to navigate at night. Ukraine doesn't have ATACMS missiles, to be able to destroy the fortifications on the Surovikin line, nor the LNR, or DNR depots supplying the southern front, nor does it have any kind of navy, because it was stolen from it in 2014, when our politicians (mine and yours) stood by and turned a blind eye to what was happening in Crimea (notable exception John McCain, may his soul rest in peace).

3. But why doesn't the counteroffensive like the one in Harkiv last year work?

3.1 Because it is not the same thing. The Harkiv counteroffensive was exceptionally well worked by the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), making use primarily of the telegraphing months in advance of the Herson counteroffensive. This resulted in large chunks of the Russian Army relocating to the southern front and then across the Dnieper River to the Herson front.

3.1a Because the Russians had no fortification lines (except for the normal trenches) in their defensive lines, unlike the Surovikin Line, which I described above.
3.1b Because the HIMARS had just entered the war theatre and the Russians did not have time to adapt to the devastating hits on ammunition dumps, concentrations of Russian troops, and the hitting of important tactical targets (radars, anti-aircraft systems, etc).
3.1c Because without the Surovikin Line, the Russians fled once the counter-offensive began in force.

3.2 Because this counteroffensive is operationally totally different from the one in Harkiv. If at the operational level, the objective of the Harkiv counteroffensive was to liberate Harkiv, keep the Ukrainians' logistical lines short, inflict minimal losses, and make rapid gains, including in Lugansk Oblast, in this counteroffensive, at the operational level, we can only guess at the objective, but it may even be at the strategic level, which has not yet been seen in this war, and here I am referring to preparing the ground for the recapture of Crimea. Or it may mean the liberation of Mariupol. Or it may simply mean the elimination of the Russians' only operational victory since the beginning of the invasion: the land corridor between Donbas and Crimea.

 

[ChloeTzang]

... continued

4. "Oh dear, no time, winter is coming. What shall we do?" When did the Harkiv counteroffensive start? In the second week of September 2022. When was it completed? The first week of October.Do you know why it ended in October? Because one of the objectives of the operation was to keep logistical lines to a minimum length. Otherwise, today, Svatove was under the control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, but we don't know and will never know if it would have been sustainable to advance another few dozen kilometers and make the logistic lines vulnerable, thus making the gains unsustainable and increasing the risk of loss of life. Here the Ukrainian commanders' reason trumped the irrationality, emotion, and effervescence of the Western public, all emotions I support and share. But it is good that we are not the commanders of the Ukrainian Army, but those who can keep their cool in critical moments.So to answer the question: What do we do? We deliver as much ammunition and equipment as we can so that in September we can penetrate all the "layers" of the Surkovikin Line and in October the operation will lead to achieving one of the objectives that I can sense: severing the Donbas-Crimea land bridge.

5. So where do we stand after all? Are we going well? Are we going badly?5.1 This is war. War itself, is an unpredictable, fluid human activity that doesn't take into account what some people want or dream about on Twitter. Therefore, we can't (or I can't) predict the future like reading from a crystal ball. But there are already, with all the losses we've discussed before, breakthroughs of the first defensive lines of the Surovikin Line.At the same time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are slowly opening a new front in Herson, putting the Russian commanders in a dilemma. We are defending the Zaporizhzhia or Crimean Front (for from Hola Prystan - Herson, the eastern bank of the Dnieper, to Armiansk is 95 km away) where there are only 3-5 Russian brigades (and those mostly made up of reservists or those mobilized in the fall), indicating a huge vulnerability on that front.5.2 The breakthrough of the first Surovikin Lines, was possible only after the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) changed their attack tactics and started to remove the main pillar of Russian military doctrine: artillery. Without artillery disappearing from some front sectors, there was no way to get through millions of anti-armor mines, mines laid out in such a way that the Russians could predict exactly which attack lane you would use. Right now Russia is losing 0.5-1% of the total artillery guns it had BEFORE the invasion, per day. I repeat: per day. Thank you M30 and M31 from the MSLR family of HIMARS, M270, LRU, and MARS II. This will drastically thin the Russian's ability to defend themselves. The Herson front is generated to move troops from the Zaporojie front area and annihilate the AFU on the only viable M-14 route before they reach Cossack Camps, Oleshky, or Hola Prystan.

6. Well? So it's good?

6.1 It's better than most Western publications write. That's my opinion and it wouldn't be the first time I've gone against the grain of Western military analysts. Last year, they (analysts) were announcing a counter-offensive in April. April, I wonder? Well, April is the month Hitler wanted to attack Kursk and Hans Guderian suggested he should wait until May. Whether this was Guderian's good or bad decision, we will never know. We do know that we had the greatest armored/tank battle in the history of mankind and we also know that this battle took place because it was dry ground. If Nazi Germany had attacked through Operation Citadel when Hitler gave the order (in April), we would have had no battle at all, because the Nazi armor would have remained stuck in the mud.I said there would be no counteroffensive in April, but it would start in May-June at the earliest (as I said in January in a podcast, that this year's would start in May at the latest - and somehow I happened to be right. I'm not bragging, just merely observing). Last year's started then, with the attack from the Herson front on Mykolaiv (many of you may have forgotten, surely most editors have forgotten Schevchenkove, Posad-Pokrovske, Kyselivka, Chornobaivka), from the successful bridgehead over Ihnulets, from Davydiv Brid and from the north from Novovoskrensenske to Mylove. It took months. But it achieved its goal: on 10.11.2022, Herson was liberated. Almost 6 months of counter-offensive.

6. 2 The counteroffensive now is much harder than Herson and Harkiv put together, but the intelligence of the Ukrainian commanders, the high morale of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and the low morale of the Russians (who now just HOPE Ukrainians won't cross the Surovikin Line - I repeat, save this post - I'll show you that it will be breached, and are getting drunk with cold water by repeatedly reading the Western headlines), the change in AFU tactics, the piercing in some important areas of the first defensive lines, the huge manpower reserves the Ukrainian Armed Forces have and the Russians don't, leads me to one thought (but maybe I'm wrong):Ukraine will accomplish at least one goal this year: They will reach the Sea of Azov.6.3 If they reach Mariupol as well, we will witness one of the biggest genocides in decades, and then the West will be morally obliged not to turn its head, but to act decisively in helping Ukrainians win in this unjust, unfair, immoral, illegal and illegitimate war started by Russia in 2014 and continued with the full-scale invasion on 24 February 2022.----Thank you to all of you who have resisted reading this post this far. I know I write long and my posts are not always to your liking, but I am trying to bring, to the best of my knowledge, value to the discussion here.If you find that value in this post I invite you to share (retweet, xtweet?), leave your opinion in a comment, and hit the like button. Why? Let's not forget that there is also an informational front and I think it's important and push back on the Russian lies, but also the narratives that give them credibility, with arguments. Calm, cold, factual.

Slava Ukraini!
View attachment 2260350

 

[RandyRebecca]

^^^
And you'd waste all our taxpayer dollars on that sort of nonsense in Taiwan too? FFS. Billionaires live in their own little bubble and the warmongers have got to be stopped in their tracks. They endanger the whole world, even risking nuclear war.

As for the lengths of the post, there's something called "paralysis through analysis". The "experts" love to make something seem super complicated, so that they can say that ordinary people don't understand. In reality, it's simple. The ruling class are billionaire profiteers, seeking trade routes, wars etc. in their pursuit of profit, using our taxpayers money while continuing to exploit workers and force wages down over here. They are also the reason for the current inflation problems across the world. Nothing super complicated about it.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Inflation? Nah, they all followed the same political agenda of shutdowns and pumping huge amounts of money into the economy. Created inflation, all while the rich got richer and the poor got shafted.

Ukraine is different - Putin launched a colonial war to try and reoccupy an old colony. It'd be a bit like the UK invading Ireland, except ruled by a wannabe Hitler with the same genocidal inclinations. Sure, you can wash your hands of it, but personally I prefer not to be one of those people who are complicit in mass murder, torture, rape and genocide. Regardless of whether a few companies and people make money from it. There's a certain basic morality at stake here.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Russia’s control on the left bank of Dnipro in Kherson is crumbling fast as Ukrainian SOF teams operate deep in the rear. Here, in a video released by Sobchak, troops of Battalion 1822 raised in Moscow say they’ve lost 40% of their men in two weeks.

Ukrainians are rapidly reinforcing their beachhead(s) on the Dnipro's left bank, but OPSEC means no videos, no brigade names, etc. for now. One tip for the russians: Run little Russians, Run!! Or die. Whatever.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1690035932655697920

 

[RandyRebecca]

Inflation? Nah, they all followed the same political agenda of shutdowns and pumping huge amounts of money into the economy. Created inflation, all while the rich got richer and the poor got shafted.

The working classes of the world are suffering due to corporate profiteering by the super rich. That corporate profiteering causes high inflation, which the establishment then use as an excuse to raise interest rates and batter those already in debt. They also have the cheek to blame workers' wages "being too high" as the cause of inflation! FFS.

Ukraine is different - Putin launched a colonial war to try and reoccupy an old colony.

After years of NATO provocation and a US backed coup in Ukraine in 2014.

It'd be a bit like the UK invading Ireland, except ruled by a wannabe Hitler with the same genocidal inclinations.

It would be like Russia or China having troops on the US-Canada border, the US-Mexico border, having warships patrolling the east and west coasts, having troops in Cuba, Nicaragua, Colombia and Venezuela, and then accusing the US of "launching a colonial war to reoccupy an old colony" when they resist. Utterly absurd.

Sure, you can wash your hands of it, but personally I prefer not to be one of those people who are complicit in mass murder, torture, rape and genocide. Regardless of whether a few companies and people make money from it. There's a certain basic morality at stake here.

What do you think the Ukrainian regime is? Have you heard of the trade union building in Odessa being burned to the ground in 2014, killing everyone inside, or on the ground outside as they tried to escape? Nobody has been held accountable.

 

[ll74]

What do you think the Ukrainian regime is? Have you heard of the trade union building in Odessa being burned to the ground in 2014, killing everyone inside, or on the ground outside as they tried to escape? Nobody has been held accountable.

The unrest in Odessa was due to the country revolting against Russian interests. It is a natural unrest rather than targeted