For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[Rightguide]

They've been fighting for close to two full years at this point. We didn't help slaughter, we helped people defend themselves. We did the only moral thing we could.

That BS. There could have been a negotiated cease-fire in April or May of last year if Boris Johnson, carrying Biden's message, hadn't gone to Kyiv to convince Zelensky not to negotiate, but to keep on fighting because the West would assure his victory. We've seen how that impossible dream has gone.

 

[Sean Renaud]

That BS. There could have been a negotiated cease-fire in April or May of last year if Boris Johnson, carrying Biden's message, hadn't gone to Kyiv to convince Zelensky not to negotiate, but to keep on fighting because the West would assure his victory. We've seen how that impossible dream has gone.

Even if a cease fire could have been negotiated and I don't believe it could have Russia would demand to keep the land they conquered as part of the deal. And then a few years we'd be right back here again.

 

[Sean Renaud]

There is no moral justification for what we have done in Ukraine.

American will continue to make mistakes that cost a lot of blood, mostly other people’s blood, until we grow up and realize we’re not always the “good guys” no matter how much we might want to be.

Your political leaders know that’s what you want to feel and they dupe you over and over with the same bullshit about “defending freedom.”

The wars we fight have nothing to do with freedom. They are about profit and power. See war is a very profitable business for some very generous political donors who have a lot of power in Washington.

So while you thought we were “helping people defend their freedom,” what we were really doing was making our weapons industry a LOT of money.

The people who paid the price were hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who died so Americans could have jobs building weapons, companies could make billions, and politicians could get donations and bribes.

And they died for nothing because America instigated the whole thing. We helped overthrow the elected pro-Russian government, helped install a pro-Western one, and insisted Ukraine was going to join NATO.

Putin said he would not allow that encroachment by NATO and would go to war to stop it. America decided on a strategy of letting Putin go to war in Ukraine, and prolonging that war as much as possible, in the hope Putin would become unpopular and there would be “regime change” in Russia.

So here we are. It’s time to grow up and realize that America is ruled by incompetent, kleptocrat, sociopaths. Doesn’t matter who you vote for or which party wins. That’s still what you get. We live in a world where truth is difficult to find, and when you do find it, it's a good bet you won't like it. The one thing you can count on is that whatever our elites tell you... isn't it.

We’re not always the good guys, and when we are it’s probably an accident.

Most of what you are saying isn't false strictly speaking. I still believe the only moral thing we could do was support our allies. We have to at least try to live up to our word. I think that is one of the worst things of the Trump era was how he proved that America's word is good for 4-8 years at best. In practice presidents haven't just pulled out of deals though. Our word meant something.

I don't honestly give a shit that the military industrial complex is making money. That's fine by me.

That having been said I think its been hit and miss mostly miss as to if we were the good guys. I think we did the right thing in the Gulf War. Save Kuwait, go home. We were the bad guys in Vietnam and Korea. We can debate Afghanistan but we were partially justified. Iraq was a debacle. That's not even counting how many nations we've overthrown and it rarely works out as planned. I mean at least after all the shit we've done to Cuba and more recently Venezuela our supposedly liberal media does a damn good job of keeping us convinced that socialism/communism/Marxism cannot succeed not that the US will sanction you into the ground and fund "freedom fighters" to over throw you. Given how well Cuba is doing over all just imagine if they could export cigars and Americans could vacation there. Venezuela has a lot of oil but rather than trade with them we like taking pictures of empty shelves and convincing Americans that free health care will lead to this.

Regardless I would arm Ukraine again, I would cut Israel's funding if they don't accept a ceasefire. Or at least start negotiating one.

 

[ll74]

There is no moral justification for what we have done in Ukraine.

American will continue to make mistakes that cost a lot of blood, mostly other people’s blood, until we grow up and realize we’re not always the “good guys” no matter how much we might want to be.

Your political leaders know that’s what you want to feel and they dupe you over and over with the same bullshit about “defending freedom.”

The wars we fight have nothing to do with freedom. They are about profit and power. See war is a very profitable business for some very generous political donors who have a lot of power in Washington.

So while you thought we were “helping people defend their freedom,” what we were really doing was making our weapons industry a LOT of money.

The people who paid the price were hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians who died so Americans could have jobs building weapons, companies could make billions, and politicians could get donations and bribes.

And they died for nothing because America instigated the whole thing. We helped overthrow the elected pro-Russian government, helped install a pro-Western one, and insisted Ukraine was going to join NATO.

Putin said he would not allow that encroachment by NATO and would go to war to stop it. America decided on a strategy of letting Putin go to war in Ukraine, and prolonging that war as much as possible, in the hope Putin would become unpopular and there would be “regime change” in Russia.

So here we are. It’s time to grow up and realize that America is ruled by incompetent, kleptocrat, sociopaths. Doesn’t matter who you vote for or which party wins. That’s still what you get. We live in a world where truth is difficult to find, and when you do find it, it's a good bet you won't like it. The one thing you can count on is that whatever our elites tell you... isn't it.

We’re not always the good guys, and when we are it’s probably an accident.

So Putin was justified and Ukraine should capitulate. Is that what you're saying?

 

[ll74]

You I hold to a much lower standard. You’d have to be twice as intelligent and twice as honest as you are… just to be stupid and dishonest.

So it is what you're saying. Thanks for confirming.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Ok. I read your first sentence and that’s all I’ll ever need to hear from you. You’re lost and I can’t help you. Back to ignore.

LOL. Thanks for putting me on ignore, that is how I know I'm so superior to someone that they refuse to even see anything especially if you stopped after the first line.

 

[ll74]

Ok. I read your first sentence and that’s all I’ll ever need to hear from you. You’re lost and I can’t help you. Back to ignore.

The ignore feature doesn't work unless you tell everyone that you're doing it.. Glad you made sure to use it properly

 

[ll74]

I have always thought it was polite to let someone you are having a conversation with… know that the conversation is over, and you won’t be seeing any more of their posts. It saves them effort.

Lol

 

[Rightguide]

I'm supportive still.

Putin continues to appreciate your support

I have no dog in his fight except our national interest which we are squandering in our failed support for this war that is ending in disaster for Ukraine and for us. All of which was predictable from the beginning. Joe Biden has always been a foreign policy disaster waiting to happen. Well, it's happening now, and not just in Ukraine, but here on our southern border, in the Pacific, in Afghanistan, in the Middle East, and in South America. We are the laughingstock of the friggin' World. Thanks to you and Joe.

 

[ll74]

I have no dog in his fight except our national interest which we are squandering in our failed support for this war that is ending in disaster for Ukraine and for us. All of which was predictable from the beginning. Joe Biden has always been a foreign policy disaster waiting to happen. Well, it's happening now, and not just in Ukraine, but here on our southern border, in the Pacific, in Afghanistan, in the Middle East, and in South America. We are the laughingstock of the friggin' World. Thanks to you and Joe.

You support Putin and hate Biden.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I have no dog in his fight except our national interest which we are squandering in our failed support for this war that is ending in disaster for Ukraine and for us. All of which was predictable from the beginning. Joe Biden has always been a foreign policy disaster waiting to happen. Well, it's happening now, and not just in Ukraine, but here on our southern border, in the Pacific, in Afghanistan, in the Middle East, and in South America. We are the laughingstock of the friggin' World. Thanks to you and Joe.

We have so much respect from the rest of the world that we managed to expand Nato and pull support from the UN. You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. We were the laughingstock of the world under Trump. We even have the photos of the entire rest of the world glaring at the clown. Actually the UK was tying us for laughing stock with Brexit which is backfiring on the fools.

A free Ukraine is in our national interests and at any rate a national interest is not a thing you can squander. None of this was remotely predictable. I would love to see your posts from when this was ramping up almost two years ago on the subject because there were lots of things predicted but this? This was not one of them.

The shit South America is our fault but that's something that started with Bush and we've just failed to fix it. Though it looks like Biden MIGHT work at least loosening the various embargos against our southern neighbors. We'll see how/if that plays out.

The Middle East has been fucked for decades and the Trump admin made it worse but ultimately Hamas had been planning this for years and Israel finally slipped.

Gods do you check under your bed for monsters before you go to sleep?

 

[ll74]

I honestly can't wait to see how long the next RG post takes to get here. I already know what it's about. I'm doing science.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I have always thought it was polite to let someone you are having a conversation with… know that the conversation is over, and you won’t be seeing any more of their posts. It saves them effort.

LOL if you think put someone on ignore stops them from posting a reply to whatever bullshit your posting, you're even dumber than I thought...

Goodbye!!

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I have no dog in his fight except our national interest which we are squandering in our failed support for this war that is ending in disaster for Ukraine and for us. All of which was predictable from the beginning. Joe Biden has always been a foreign policy disaster waiting to happen. Well, it's happening now, and not just in Ukraine, but here on our southern border, in the Pacific, in Afghanistan, in the Middle East, and in South America. We are the laughingstock of the friggin' World. Thanks to you and Joe.

You support Putin and hate Biden.

What this guy said wrongway......you suck Putin's cock every single time you mention Russia.

 

[TJX]

You are falling for the lies you've been told about Putin. It's understandable. The liars are professionals and they keep it going 24-7. But at some point you have to choose between seeing what really is or existing as a willing dupe.

Putin didn't get where he is by winning a series of popularity contests like our leaders do. He climbed the ladder at the KGB. That means he's smart, tough, and ruthless when it comes to obtaining his objectives. He also lived through the high point of the Soviet Union. And while he may not aspire to collecting back the satellite states, he definitely wants to regain the respect, fear, and status the USSR enjoyed.

Is he corrupt and self-enriching? Maybe. If so, he's certainly no worse than our own politicians or many we support around the world. Is he a thug to his political opponents? Maybe. But we have thugs here and being a thug abroad is no impediment to gaining US support.

So why is Putin such a villain? Two reasons: First, our politicians need a scapegoat to direct your attention away from their own corruption, incompetence, and thuggery. If it wasn't Putin, it would be somebody else. Second, Putin can't be bought off or intimidated. He is reliable. He will always do what he believes is in the best interests of Russia... and they hate him for that.

As far as Ukraine, Putin has been willing to end this and give back all territory taken in exchange for an agreement that Ukraine would be neutral and not join NATO. That's all he wanted before the war ever started. We have rejected (and I say WE as in America) that idea in favor of grand plans and fantasies of our own. At this point that deal may not be on the table anymore. America has shown such bad faith, I'm not sure he can trust such an agreement.

Look for him to take, and keep, land he believes is strategically important and areas that have high populations of Russians... and let the rest end up however it ends up. And look for our media to blame him for everything... because hey, we still need a scapegoa

Propaganda

 

[Lazaran]

You are falling for the lies you've been told about Putin. It's understandable. The liars are professionals and they keep it going 24-7. But at some point you have to choose between seeing what really is or existing as a willing dupe.

Putin didn't get where he is by winning a series of popularity contests like our leaders do. He climbed the ladder at the KGB. That means he's smart, tough, and ruthless when it comes to obtaining his objectives. He also lived through the high point of the Soviet Union. And while he may not aspire to collecting back the satellite states, he definitely wants to regain the respect, fear, and status the USSR enjoyed.

Is he corrupt and self-enriching? Maybe. If so, he's certainly no worse than our own politicians or many we support around the world. Is he a thug to his political opponents? Maybe. But we have thugs here and being a thug abroad is no impediment to gaining US support.

So why is Putin such a villain? Two reasons: First, our politicians need a scapegoat to direct your attention away from their own corruption, incompetence, and thuggery. If it wasn't Putin, it would be somebody else. Second, Putin can't be bought off or intimidated. He is reliable. He will always do what he believes is in the best interests of Russia... and they hate him for that.

As far as Ukraine, Putin has been willing to end this and give back all territory taken in exchange for an agreement that Ukraine would be neutral and not join NATO. That's all he wanted before the war ever started. We have rejected (and I say WE as in America) that idea in favor of grand plans and fantasies of our own. At this point that deal may not be on the table anymore. America has shown such bad faith, I'm not sure he can trust such an agreement.

Look for him to take, and keep, land he believes is strategically important and areas that have high populations of Russians... and let the rest end up however it ends up. And look for our media to blame him for everything... because hey, we still need a scapegoat!

The murderous Putin and Russia thank you for your aid and comfort.

Fucking traitor. (Unless you’re a Russian troll of course).

JFC

SAD!!!

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The murderous Putin and Russia thank you for your aid and comfort.

Fucking traitor. (Unless you’re a Russian troll of course).

JFC

SAD!!!

He's worse than a troll, he thinks the Bible holds all the answers.

 

[Lazaran]

He's worse than a troll, he thinks the Bible holds all the answers.

The Bible makes more sense than that idiot, and the Bible is completely nonsensical.

*nods*

 

[Rightguide]

I'm supportive still.

Putin continues to appreciate your support

If you don't want to hear it from me, then take it from your own left-wing sources. Time Magazine. This war is all but over for Ukraine:

‘Nobody Believes in Our Victory Like I Do.’ Inside Volodymyr Zelensky’s Struggle to Keep Ukraine in the Fight​

BY SIMON SHUSTER/KYIV
UPDATED: NOVEMBER 1, 2023 10:36 AM EDT | ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED: OCTOBER 30, 2023 8:00 AM EDT

https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-interview/

It's a long article but the handwriting is on the wall, even for the ardent Ukraine war supporters over at Time Magazine.

On the alleged "offensive" we've all been waiting for:

"That offensive has proceeded at an excruciating pace and with enormous losses, making it ever more difficult for Zelensky to convince partners that victory is around the corner. With the outbreak of war in Israel, even keeping the world’s attention on Ukraine has become a major challenge."

On Zelensky's frame of mind:

"On the contrary, his belief in Ukraine’s ultimate victory over Russia has hardened into a form that worries some of his advisers. It is immovable, verging on the messianic. “He deludes himself,” one of his closest aides tells me in frustration. “We’re out of options. We’re not winning. But try telling him that.”

On military morale:

"The cold will also make military advances more difficult, locking down the front lines at least until the spring. But Zelensky has refused to accept that. “Freezing the war, to me, means losing it,” he says. Before the winter sets in, his aides warned me to expect major changes in their military strategy and a major shake-up in the President’s team. At least one minister would need to be fired, along with a senior general in charge of the counteroffensive, they said, to ensure accountability for Ukraine’s slow progress at the front. “We’re not moving forward,” says one of Zelensky’s close aides. Some front-line commanders, he continues, have begun refusing orders to advance, even when they came directly from the office of the President. “They just want to sit in the trenches and hold the line,” he says. “But we can’t win a war that way.”

On battlefield capability:

When I raised these claims with a senior military officer, he said that some commanders have little choice in second-guessing orders from the top. At one point in early October, he said, the political leadership in Kyiv demanded an operation to “retake” the city of Horlivka, a strategic outpost in eastern Ukraine that the Russians have held and fiercely defended for nearly a decade. The answer came back in the form of a question: With what? “They don’t have the men or the weapons,” says the officer. “Where are the weapons? Where is the artillery? Where are the new recruits?”

In some branches of the military, the shortage of personnel has become even more dire than the deficit in arms and ammunition. One of Zelensky’s close aides tells me that even if the U.S. and its allies come through with all the weapons they have pledged, “we don’t have the men to use them.”

There is much more on corruption. Read it for yourself. For all practical purposes Ukraine has lost this war.

 

[TJX]

Doofus

hehehe

 

[Fuzzy1975]

If you don't want to hear it from me, then take it from your own left-wing sources. Time Magazine. This war is all but over for Ukraine:

Yes we get you support and suck Putin's cock, no need to keep reminding us of it...lol

​

There is much more on corruption. Read it for yourself. For all practical purposes Ukraine has lost this war.

Yes we get you support Putin, no need to keep reminding us of it...lol

 

[Rightguide]

US officials are concerned that Ukraine is running out of troops and have hinted at peace talks with Russia, report says​

Alia Shoaib
Nov 4, 2023, 7:09 AM PDT

Western officials have begun broaching the topic of holding peace negotiations with Russia with the Ukrainian government, a report says.

The conversations have included broadly considering what Ukraine might need to give up to secure a deal, one current senior US official and one former senior US official familiar with the discussions told NBC News.

These discussions have begun because of growing fears among US and European officials that the war has reached a stalemate and that it will be won by whoever can hold out the longest, the officials told the outlet.

Ukraine's long-anticipated counteroffensive began five months ago and has achieved negligible gains.

More here: https://www.businessinsider.com/wes...t-ukraine-consider-peace-talks-russia-2023-11

Slowly but surely the truth I've been speaking about for weeks on end is slowly coming out. Ukraine has no hope for victory in this war. Russia has effective military control of the Russian-speaking Donbas and Crimea. There was never a chance that Russia would allow a NATO force to be stationed on its southern border, no more than the US would allow a peer-level foreign army to be stationed in Mexico. Joe Biden and his tone-deaf leftist appointees have brought this on Ukraine and on ourselves.

 

[ll74]

US officials are concerned that Ukraine is running out of troops and have hinted at peace talks with Russia, report says​

Alia Shoaib
Nov 4, 2023, 7:09 AM PDT

Western officials have begun broaching the topic of holding peace negotiations with Russia with the Ukrainian government, a report says.

The conversations have included broadly considering what Ukraine might need to give up to secure a deal, one current senior US official and one former senior US official familiar with the discussions told NBC News.

These discussions have begun because of growing fears among US and European officials that the war has reached a stalemate and that it will be won by whoever can hold out the longest, the officials told the outlet.

Ukraine's long-anticipated counteroffensive began five months ago and has achieved negligible gains.

More here: https://www.businessinsider.com/wes...t-ukraine-consider-peace-talks-russia-2023-11

Slowly but surely the truth I've been speaking about for weeks on end is slowly coming out. Ukraine has no hope for victory in this war. Russia has effective military control of the Russian-speaking Donbas and Crimea. There was never a chance that Russia would allow a NATO force to be stationed on its southern border, no more than the US would allow a peer-level foreign army to be stationed in Mexico. Joe Biden and his tone-deaf leftist appointees have brought this on Ukraine and on ourselves.

Can't wait to see what you expect Ukraine to give up for your boss

 

[Rightguide]

Can't wait to see what you expect Ukraine to give up for your boss

Fuck off with the "boss" shit. I told you this would happen. I can't help it if you have no education or geographical awareness in Europe. Putin has no desire to govern western Ukraine. He will no doubt insist on keeping Crimea, and the Donbas east of the Dnieper. He might go ahead and accept the status quo as it is today, or he may yet go after Kharkov and Odessa as they were in his mind traditionally Russian cities. The fact is, thanks to Joe Biden Putin would hold the upper hand in any negotiation going forward.

 

[ll74]

Fuck off with the "boss" shit. I told you this would happen. I can't help it if you have no education or geographical awareness in Europe. Putin has no desire to govern western Ukraine. He will no doubt insist on keeping Crimea, and the Donbas east of the Dnieper. He might go ahead and accept the status quo as it is today, or he may yet go after Kharkov and Odessa as they were in his mind traditionally Russian cities. The fact is, thanks to Joe Biden Putin would hold the upper hand in any negotiation going forward.

You predicted this would be won by Russia in the first week.

I know you like to be "military expert" boy
...but you suck at this.