For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[Lazaran]

All? Russia is a nuclear armed power, and it is now around 24 years since Bush Sr. told Gorbachev that there would be no NATO expansion eastwards. The NATO warmongers are insane. Russia inevitably pushed back.

"Becky" is a fucking LIAR:

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/



"Becky"

 

[RandyRebecca]

There was no agreement regarding NATO expansion. Sorry to burst your bubble
Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”

Gorbachev would say that, wouldn't he? He was a traitor to the Soviet Union and the states in Eastern Europe.

https://natowatch.org/newsbriefs/20...misled-over-assurances-against-nato-expansion

He hasn't bypassed Congress to provide aid.

https://apnews.com/article/us-israe...ass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f

It's seems the attitude of the Republicans and Democrats when faced with inconvenient facts is "deny it" or "look over there, it's Russia". Biden has bypassed the US Congress on multiple occasions to send unconditional "aid" to Israel as it carries out ethnic cleansing and genocide against the people of Gaza. That's the guy the Democrats support.

Words don't matter either, like Schumer pretending to attack Netanyahu. They keep sending unconditional aid after tens of thousands of Palestinians have been killed. The theory that Biden is senile gets stronger when we consider that he acts like it's the Israel of the 1970s or even earlier, and he acts like US imperialism still has the world clout of 2003, before the Iraq War.

 

[ll74]

They would say that, wouldn't they?!

https://natowatch.org/newsbriefs/20...misled-over-assurances-against-nato-expansion

Wtf are you talking about? The source I posted was quoting directly from Gorbachev.

Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.” To be sure, the former Soviet president criticized NATO enlargement and called it a violation of the spirit of the assurances given Moscow in 1990, but he made clear there was no promise regarding broader enlargement.

https://apnews.com/article/us-israe...ass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f

It's seems the attitude of the Republicans and Democrats when faced with inconvenient facts is "deny it" or "look over there, it's Russia".

The money is part of the funds already allocated to the Defense department. At best, he's putting money up that is being approved slower than needed. Congress is in the process of passing $3.3 billion to Israel.

The President isn't alone on this.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Wtf are you talking about? The source I posted was directly from Gorbachev.

A traitor to the Soviet Union and the states in Eastern Europe, as I said in an edit.

Read the link, especially the words "declassified documents".

The money is part of the funds already allocated to the Defense department. At best, he's putting money up that is being approved slower than needed. Congress is in the process of passing $3.3 billion to Israel.

The President isn't alone on this.

Read the Associated Press link from December 2023. He bypassed the US Congress multiple times. Who is the lesser evil? The Republicans mostly want to stop sending aid to Ukraine, while Biden's warmongering agenda has led to a situation where Trump calls for Israel to "finish the job" in Gaza before a deal is reached, as he balks at spending billions of $$$$$ in wars and demands that other NATO countries spend more.

 

[ll74]

A traitor to the Soviet Union and the states in Eastern Europe, as I said in an edit.

Read the link.

You said Bush promised no NATO expansion. He did not.

And neither party signed any agreement regarding NATO expansion.

Read the Associated Press link from December 2023. He bypassed the US Congress multiple times. Who is the lesser evil? The Republicans mostly want to stop sending aid to Ukraine, while Biden's warmongering agenda has led to a situation where Trump calls for Israel to "finish the job" in Gaza before a deal is reached, as he balks at spending billions of $$$$$ in wars.

You keep blaming Biden. It's a bipartisan bill of $3.3 billion dollars. Biden is not an authortarian... Sorry

 

[RandyRebecca]

You said Bush promised no NATO expansion. He did not.

From the article:

"Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major and Woerner".

If Gorbachev denied it, then his treachery is even bigger than before. Putin the strongman is in power in Russia today precisely because Russians remember what Gorbachev and Yeltsin did.

You keep blaming Biden. It's a bipartisan bill of $3.3 billion dollars. Biden is not an authortarian... Sorry

From the December 2023 article:

"For the second time this month the Biden administration is bypassing Congress to approve an emergency weapons sale to Israel as Israel continues to prosecute its war against Hamas in Gaza under increasing international criticism.

The State Department said Friday that Secretary of State Antony Blinken had told Congress that he had made a second emergency determination covering a $147.5 million sale for equipment, including fuses, charges and primers, that is needed to make the 155 mm shells that Israel has already purchased function.

“Given the urgency of Israel’s defensive needs, the secretary notified Congress that he had exercised his delegated authority to determine an emergency existed necessitating the immediate approval of the transfer,” the department said."

 

[ll74]

From the article:

"Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major and Woerner".

If Gorbachev denied it, then his treachery is even bigger than before. Putin the strongman is in power in Russia today precisely because Russians remember what Gorbachev and Yeltsin did.

Got it You believe there was an agreement when there wasn't.

Assurances can mean a lot of things, none of them binding. For example, Russia assured the world that they wouldn't invade Ukraine... And then they did

I'd be interested in seeing what precisely was "assured"

From the December 2023 article:

"For the second time this month the Biden administration is bypassing Congress to approve an emergency weapons sale to Israel as Israel continues to prosecute its war against Hamas in Gaza under increasing international criticism.

The State Department said Friday that Secretary of State Antony Blinken had told Congress that he had made a second emergency determination covering a $147.5 million sale for equipment, including fuses, charges and primers, that is needed to make the 155 mm shells that Israel has already purchased function.

“Given the urgency of Israel’s defensive needs, the secretary notified Congress that he had exercised his delegated authority to determine an emergency existed necessitating the immediate approval of the transfer,” the department said."

Yep - and all of it will be included as part of the $3.3 billion dollar aid package that Congress is passing. .

Biden is not an authoritarian.... Sorry

 

[ll74]

Ukraine may be getting the burnt recently, but they are still not shying away from hitting back hard.

​

Ukraine 'Likely' Hit Three Russian Ships in New Black Sea Fleet Assault​

Revisiting the "NATO expansion" topic - if that's the reason that Putin hit Ukraine, then he is the one who started a proxy war on purpose. Food for thought

 

[Rightguide]

Lol.... His words were an answer to a question about escalation.

Which, btw, you told me to read but never actually quoted.

Dipshit.

And Russia promoted it.

Meanwhile, bB is talking about how Trump didn't mean bloodbath.

There is from Le Monde:

"French President Emmanuel Macron last month sent shockwaves around Ukraine when he refused to rule out any option in the conflict, including the sending of Western troops. Despite troubled reactions from allies, including notably Germany, he has in recent days appeared to double down on the remarks, urging the West not to be "cowardly".

Defense Minister Sebastien Lecornu however, said the furor caused by Macron's initial remarks after a conference of Ukraine's European allies on February 26 was due to them being "taken out of context". "There were hypotheses clearly put on the table but not combat ground troops as may have been said here or there," he told broadcaster BFMTV, noting that Macron had reaffirmed that France would not be a "co-belligerent" in the conflict.

"But between the transfer of arms and co-belligerence – in other words direct war with Russia – have we done everything within that space? Are there paths that we can explore? And notably paths involving a military presence?" he asked. Lecornu said this could include mine clearance and the training of Ukrainian soldiers on Ukrainian soil. "The more Ukraine needs to conscript, to raise up its army, the greater the need will be to ramp up training," he added.

He also announced that three French companies would create partnerships to produce and maintain weapons and spare parts on Ukrainian soil. They are the Delair drone manufacturer, Nexter, the French branch of the Franco-German company KNDS which produces the Caesar canons delivered to Kyiv, and Arquus, a French manufacturer of land military equipment which has a contract to maintain armored vehicles."

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/ar...troops-to-ukraine-not-on-table_6598032_7.html

Meanwhile State Duma Deputy Speaker Pyotr Tolstoy said.

"We will kill all French soldiers who will come to the territory of Ukraine. All of them,"

So, it seems the Russians don't care what motivation Frenchmen have when they enter Ukraine they will be considered belligerents.

 

[ll74]

There is from Le Monde:

"French President Emmanuel Macron last month sent shockwaves around Ukraine when he refused to rule out any option in the conflict, including the sending of Western troops. Despite troubled reactions from allies, including notably Germany, he has in recent days appeared to double down on the remarks, urging the West not to be "cowardly".

Defense Minister Sebastien Lecornu however, said the furor caused by Macron's initial remarks after a conference of Ukraine's European allies on February 26 was due to them being "taken out of context". "There were hypotheses clearly put on the table but not combat ground troops as may have been said here or there," he told broadcaster BFMTV, noting that Macron had reaffirmed that France would not be a "co-belligerent" in the conflict.

"But between the transfer of arms and co-belligerence – in other words direct war with Russia – have we done everything within that space? Are there paths that we can explore? And notably paths involving a military presence?" he asked. Lecornu said this could include mine clearance and the training of Ukrainian soldiers on Ukrainian soil. "The more Ukraine needs to conscript, to raise up its army, the greater the need will be to ramp up training," he added.

He also announced that three French companies would create partnerships to produce and maintain weapons and spare parts on Ukrainian soil. They are the Delair drone manufacturer, Nexter, the French branch of the Franco-German company KNDS which produces the Caesar canons delivered to Kyiv, and Arquus, a French manufacturer of land military equipment which has a contract to maintain armored vehicles."

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/ar...troops-to-ukraine-not-on-table_6598032_7.html

Meanwhile State Duma Deputy Speaker Pyotr Tolstoy said.

"We will kill all French soldiers who will come to the territory of Ukraine. All of them,"

So, it seems the Russians don't care what motivation Frenchmen have when they enter Ukraine they will be considered belligerents.

The French aren't planning anything.

Putin is playing more mind games on you.

 

[Rightguide]

The French aren't planning anything.

Putin is playing more mind games on you.

That information didn't come from Putin you dumb shit. It came from Le Monde. Here's hint for you. Macron is a nut. The French have no ground force that could make a difference in Ukraine. None.

 

[ll74]

That information didn't come from Putin you dumb shit. It came from Le Monde. Here's hint for you. Macron is a nut. The French have no ground force that could make a difference in Ukraine. None.

There is no information that shows the French are doing anything except preparing for various scenarios. Putin is the one exaggerating that.

 

[Rightguide]

There is no information that shows the French are doing anything except preparing for various scenarios. Putin is the one exaggerating that.

Here's French Military source who says the French Army is a bunch of cheerleaders:

Secret French Military Documents Show It’s Impossible for Ukraine To Win the War – Officers About Their Troops: ‘Facing the Russians, France Is Army of Cheerleaders!’​

By Paul Serran Mar. 14, 2024 9:45 am

The defense reports harshly criticize the ‘disastrous’ planning done by western military and Ukraine:

“‘The planners believed that as soon as the first Russian lines of defense were crossed, the entire front would collapse […] These fundamental preliminary phases were carried out without taking into account the moral strength of the enemy on the defensive’.

[…] These Ukrainian ‘Year II soldiers’ were launched to attack ‘a Russian fortification line which proved to be impregnable’. Without any air support, with Western equipment that is disparate and less efficient than the old Soviet equipment (‘obsolete, easy to maintain, and capable of being used in degraded mode’), the Ukrainian troops had no hope of breaking through. Let us add ‘Russian arch-domination in the field of electronic jamming penalizing, on the Ukrainian side, the use of drones and command systems’.”

Once they analyzed the situation militarily, the French military stated that ‘the Russian army is today the tactical and technical’ reference for thinking about and implementing the defensive mode’.

It goes on in greater detail here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...litary-documents-show-its-impossible-ukraine/

Of course informed people have known for some time the war in Ukraine is all over but the shouting. There is nothing the French army or NATO can do about it. It appears that Russia has both defeated Ukraine and disarmed NATO. NATO has noting left to give.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Got it You believe there was an agreement when there wasn't.

Assurances can mean a lot of things, none of them binding. For example, Russia assured the world that they wouldn't invade Ukraine... And then they did

I'd be interested in seeing what precisely was "assured"



Yep - and all of it will be included as part of the $3.3 billion dollar aid package that Congress is passing. .

Biden is not an authoritarian.... Sorry

Actually there was an agreement Russia signed about not invading Ukraine. The Budapest Agreement.

 

[Rightguide]

Where's the big Ukrainian victory. Surely the Russians are all out of soldiers by now. So when will Zelensky roll into Moscow?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Where's the big Ukrainian victory. Surely the Russians are all out of soldiers by now. So when will Zelensky roll into Moscow?

Zelensky has no intention of invading Russia. He is just trying to throw the invaders out of his country.

Will you ever get something right? Just once, I mean your post count is almost 56,000. The law of averages should come into play, even if it's just by luck....

 

[RandyRebecca]

Zelensky has no intention of invading Russia. He is just trying to throw the invaders out of his country.

That's not going to happen. They should have accepted the Minsk Accords or the later April 2022 peace deal.

The Ukrainian authorities failed to see that they were NATO's sacrificial pawns in a proxy war against Russia, and instead believed all that Banderaist neonazi BS about "Glory to Ukraine".

 

[ll74]

That's not going to happen. They should have accepted the Minsk Accords or the later April 2022 peace deal.

The Ukrainian authorities failed to see that they were NATO's sacrificial pawns in a proxy war against Russia, and instead believed all that Banderaist neonazi BS about "Glory to Ukraine".

Ukraine doesn't deserve this invasion.
Russia should withdraw.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Ukraine doesn't deserve this invasion.
Russia should withdraw.

Then Ukraine should have followed the Minsk Accords then, and shouldn't have killed over 13,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbass in the 8 years before the invasion. All this was done because of NATO (and the US) urging them in that direction. Now NATO faces defeat, and Ukraine will get the worst of it.

 

[ll74]

Then Ukraine should have followed the Minsk Accords then, and shouldn't have killed over 13,000 ethnic Russians in the Donbass in the 8 years before the invasion.

Russia never adhered to the accords and never actually believed the accords were valid.

All this was done because of NATO (and the US) urging them in that direction. Now NATO faces defeat, and Ukraine will get the worst of it.

Bullshit. Ukraine is not in NATO

 

[Rightguide]

The truth is starting to dissolve the propaganda:

End of the Line for Ukraine? UK Paper The Times: ‘It’s Time We Talked About the Fall of Kiev’ – Zelensky: ‘We Are Trying To Find a Way Not to Retreat’​

By Paul Serran Mar. 30, 2024 10:00 am

Ever since the conquest of the heavily fortified key Donbas city of Avdeevka, the real dimension of the Russian combat superiority became suddenly clear to just about everyone.

While Ukraine still finds some success in missile strikes behind the Russian lines, and asymmetrical attacks of a terror nature, everyone now can see just how outmanned, outgunned and outmaneuvered Kiev’s forces have become.

Now, even in the MSM, there are daily reports of just how dire the situation on the ground is right now.

The UK paper The Times [behind a paywall] went as far as publishing an op-ed talking about how the West is bracing for an imminent Ukrainian army’s collapse.

The rest here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/03/end-line-ukraine-uk-paper-times-its-time/

Let's consider
As of 2023, the size of the Ukrainian army varied based on different sources and contexts. Let’s explore a few estimates:

1. Statista Data (February 2024):
   • Total Military Personnel: Ukraine had approximately 2.2 million military personnelin total.
     • Active Military Staff: Around 900,000.
     • Reserve Forces: Approximately 1.2 million.
   • In comparison, Russia had approximately 1.32 million active military personnel and two million reserve military personnel1.
   • Ukraine’s tank strength was less than 1,800 tanks, while Russia had significantly more1.
2. Newsweek Report (April 2023):
   • Russia had an estimated 1,330,900 people listed among its total military personnel.
   • Ukraine had 500,000 total military personnel, including 200,000 active soldiers and 250,000 reserve forces2.
3. President Zelensky’s Statement (December 2023):
   • President Volodymyr Zelensky mentioned that there were nearly 600,000 soldiers in various branches of the Ukrainian military3.
4. BBC Report (July 2022):
   • The Ukrainian defense minister stated that they had approximately 700,000 in the armed forces, including national guard, police, and border guard4.

In summary, estimates vary, but Ukraine’s military strength includes a mix of active personnel, reserves, and paramilitary units. Despite challenges, Ukraine has been bolstering its forces during the ongoing conflict.

Learn more​

1statista.com2newsweek.com3newsweek.com4bbc.com5globalfirepower.com

But now we see this:

"In December Zelenskyy said 450,000 to 500,000 extra soldiers would be needed to resist Russia in 2024."

This fortifies the massive casualty numbers that have been reported as suffered by the Ukrainian Army. There is no denying that the Democrat media has been lying to us for the last couple of years about conditions on the ground in Ukraine and there's no doubt in my mind that Joe Biden has been behind these lies to conceal a foreign policy disaster bigger than the one he engineered in Afghanistan.

 

[ll74]

The truth is starting to dissolve the propaganda:

End of the Line for Ukraine? UK Paper The Times: ‘It’s Time We Talked About the Fall of Kiev’ – Zelensky: ‘We Are Trying To Find a Way Not to Retreat’​

By Paul Serran Mar. 30, 2024 10:00 am

Ever since the conquest of the heavily fortified key Donbas city of Avdeevka, the real dimension of the Russian combat superiority became suddenly clear to just about everyone.

While Ukraine still finds some success in missile strikes behind the Russian lines, and asymmetrical attacks of a terror nature, everyone now can see just how outmanned, outgunned and outmaneuvered Kiev’s forces have become.

Now, even in the MSM, there are daily reports of just how dire the situation on the ground is right now.

The UK paper The Times [behind a paywall] went as far as publishing an op-ed talking about how the West is bracing for an imminent Ukrainian army’s collapse.

The rest here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/03/end-line-ukraine-uk-paper-times-its-time/

Let's consider
As of 2023, the size of the Ukrainian army varied based on different sources and contexts. Let’s explore a few estimates:

1. Statista Data (February 2024):
   • Total Military Personnel: Ukraine had approximately 2.2 million military personnelin total.
     • Active Military Staff: Around 900,000.
     • Reserve Forces: Approximately 1.2 million.
   • In comparison, Russia had approximately 1.32 million active military personnel and two million reserve military personnel1.
   • Ukraine’s tank strength was less than 1,800 tanks, while Russia had significantly more1.
2. Newsweek Report (April 2023):
   • Russia had an estimated 1,330,900 people listed among its total military personnel.
   • Ukraine had 500,000 total military personnel, including 200,000 active soldiers and 250,000 reserve forces2.
3. President Zelensky’s Statement (December 2023):
   • President Volodymyr Zelensky mentioned that there were nearly 600,000 soldiers in various branches of the Ukrainian military3.
4. BBC Report (July 2022):
   • The Ukrainian defense minister stated that they had approximately 700,000 in the armed forces, including national guard, police, and border guard4.

In summary, estimates vary, but Ukraine’s military strength includes a mix of active personnel, reserves, and paramilitary units. Despite challenges, Ukraine has been bolstering its forces during the ongoing conflict.

Learn more​

1statista.com2newsweek.com3newsweek.com4bbc.com5globalfirepower.com

But now we see this:

"In December Zelenskyy said 450,000 to 500,000 extra soldiers would be needed to resist Russia in 2024."

This fortifies the massive casualty numbers that have been reported as suffered by the Ukrainian Army. There is no denying that the Democrat media has been lying to us for the last couple of years about conditions on the ground in Ukraine and there's no doubt in my mind that Joe Biden has been behind these lies to conceal a foreign policy disaster bigger than the one he engineered in Afghanistan.

What specific outlet has been lying? Provide proof.

 

[Rightguide]

What specific outlet has been lying? Provide proof.

The entire legacy media has been lying to the American people and the World about events in Ukraine, probably on the orders of the Biden Administration for at least the last year to cover up the Biden-supported Ukrainian debacle happening there.

 

[ll74]

The entire legacy media has been lying to the American people and the World about events in Ukraine, probably on the orders of the Biden Administration for at least the last year to cover up the Biden-supported Ukrainian debacle happening there.

That's not what I asked for.
Try again

 

[Rightguide]

That's not what I asked for.
Try again

The entire legacy media has falsely characterized the war in Ukraine. The proof is the reality on the battlefield today.