Gender Bending

[Shankara20]

Might I, as the OP (Original Posted to this thread), ask respectfully that we take the discussion about race, a discussion that can often become volatile, to some other more appropriate thread or perhaps someone wanting to discuss race relation issues could start a new tread about the subject. I can see a connection between discrimination based on perception of gender expression and discrimination based on perception of race presentation - I suspect they are both based on fear, and therefor hatred, of the "other".

In this thread I would rather discuss being feared and hated for being, oh, lets say - a fem-expressing-gay, rather then being feared and hated for being, oh, lets say - a white-male.

Thank you. Shank


Now, back to the important question of how to get the grocery clerk to stop trying to find my non-existent cleavage when I crossdress when going shopping...

 

[EmpressFi]

I must be in the 10% of people who look at people and dont assume anything about the persons sexuality. There's so much MORE to a person than that. Though I know people arent always that way.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Most people dont wonder about your sexuality unless you draw their attention to you.

The cops used to carry in naked women to the hospital where I worked. The gals were always naked as babies, refused cover, and screamed at everyone, "Dont look at me."

 

[DeservingBitch]

Now, back to the important question of how to get the grocery clerk to stop trying to find my non-existent cleavage when I crossdress when going shopping...

Pass any ideas to me -- I'm dealing with non-existent cleavage problem too.

And sorry for participating in hijaking your thread. I'll be a good girl now.

 

[Homburg]

I guess I don't understand how you don't see this. Isn't 90% of the country het space by default? Unless one flaunts one's homosexuality, one WILL be mistaken for straight. I get mistaken for straight all the time. Even in queer spaces, I have been mistaken for straight. Heterosexuality is the norm, therefore 90% of the time it is assumed that you are straight until you prove otherwise (by looking gay or going to gay places).

It's more of a disconnect with the concept and the language. I simply have a tough time seeing non-defined space as defaulting to any particular orientation. If you go the park, the trees and grass don't care who you fuck, or how. If you go to the ballpark, the bleachers don't care. If you go tthe gym, the weights don't care. The people in these places might care, but they don't impose some sort of evil het-mojo on the space itself.

I think it is just the way of looking at it that goes a bit sideways for me. I look at the people, not the space. I'm not trying to argue that it isn't a het-dominat world. It is. It would be ludicrous to not think of it that way when the numbers are blatantly obvious. I just don't necessarily groove on the verbage of attributing some sort of bias to a given space.

Honestly, that has a lot to do with my perspective. I see trees, not forest, generally speaking. I tend to pick out some managable chunk of the populace in a given setting and concentrate on dealing with them. It's just how I work, and I think that is one reason why I don't see the issue the same way.

It does come back to identifiers though. To return a bit closer to topic, a CD person broadcasts a given identifier rather loudly. everyone that see someone cross-dressing (assuming they're not so good that gender identification is impossible) knows that this person is involved in gender-bending, and, frankly, it produces a reaction. This reaction occurs along broad lines, and can be consistent across a given demographic in group settings. The more homogenous the demographic, the greater the likelihood of consistency amongst individual reactions.

So I'm not denying that this behaviour occurs, I just disagree with the verbage used to describe it because, to my mind, it removes some of the blame on the individuals involved, as well as lumping blame onto those whose only fault is being present in a place desgnated as het-space. I'm het, but I am queer-friendly. If I am present in het-space, by the reason implied in this verbage, I am supporting the status quo and oppression simply by my presence. I dislike this concept.

 

[unfoundiamond]

I am sorry

I did message seemingly off topic, and I am sorry... though I feel it did have to do with my gender bending... in a roundabout way

I ment to say even white women, presenting as gay, face harassment... being white isn't a get out of gaybashing free card... and not all straight people hate gays, and making it the other way around won't help the cause,

The reason we should he inclusive to any outsider in our space, is, we want the same, wether you admit it, gays and genderbenders seek acceptance from society, and to prove we deserve it, we should extend it...

My point isn't made superclear in my last few posts, as I tend to get carried away, but I am just trying to show just as sometimes groups of people descriminate against others, and sometimes, members of the majority get the descrimination turned on them... and since we know what it is like- WE shouldn't do it to the majority in our enviroment, SINCE NOT ALL majority are the haters...

 

[Homburg]

And you have my apologies, Shanks. We did wander rather far afield there.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

In 1980 I was president of a local club. The membership was about 225 or so, and I had maybe a dozen disgruntled people who acted together to make the business meetings difficult. They bitched and whined and complained about anything & everything. And I got the idea that the general membership agreed with them, cause no one was contesting any of their points.

Until we took a vote on one of their issues I opposed. Almost everyone opposed the malcontents and supported me.

I learned that most people keep their thoughts to themselves, and silence isnt opposition or agreement.

 

[DeservingBitch]

I'm het, but I am queer-friendly. If I am present in het-space, by the reason implied in this verbage, I am supporting the status quo and oppression simply by my presence. I dislike this concept.

No, i think you're confusing stuff here.

Yes you're het, and because of such, you benefit from het privilege on a daily basis. Hell, for all the shit I get for being queer, I also reap a lot of het privileges just because I 'pass' as het.

When we talk about het privilege (or men/whites/middle-classed privilege), it doesn't means that those privileges are bad, or that you shouldn't benefit from those, nor that you live a happy-charmed-perfect existence. It just means that het is considered the 'default' setting. It's considered normal. Being het, you pass.

It doesn't mean that simply by being there you support the status quo and oppression -- but it does mean that you can walk down the street and not notice how the world is designed with you in mind.

Denying such privilege is what support the status quo. Not calling up homophobic people on their shit is what support the status quo. Denying that their is real, systematic, and institutionalized oppression of queer people is what support the status quo. Being het, and simply existing as such isn't what support the status quo.

I really like this piece on what privilege is and is not. I think it clarifies a lot of things: Where's My Extra Piece of the Pie?

 

[DeservingBitch]

I must be in the 10% of people who look at people and dont assume anything about the persons sexuality. There's so much MORE to a person than that. Though I know people arent always that way.

See, even though I'm queer, and even though there's a lot of queer people around me, if I'm not in a designated queer-space, I still tend to assume most people to be het. Not that I spend much time thinking about the sexuality or identity of people around me*: but if someone talks about their partner for instance, unless they give clues otherwise, I tend to assume their partner to be of the opposite sex. If someone mentions a spouse, I tend to assume their marriage to be het, even though gay marriage are legals in this great country [irony here].

Everytime I realize that I'm somewhat unconsciously making those problematic assumptions, it annoys me. But like everyone else, I've been socialized to look at the world as 'het' by default. I'm no better than anyone else. I think that what matters is that I acknowledge those biases, and work everyday to go against them.

*Except of course if she's cute, and I'm wondering if she's straight or not and whether I should hit on her.

 

[Homburg]

No, i think you're confusing stuff here.

Yes you're het, and because of such, you benefit from het privilege on a daily basis. Hell, for all the shit I get for being queer, I also reap a lot of het privileges just because I 'pass' as het.

When we talk about het privilege (or men/whites/middle-classed privilege), it doesn't means that those privileges are bad, or that you shouldn't benefit from those, nor that you live a happy-charmed-perfect existence. It just means that het is considered the 'default' setting. It's considered normal. Being het, you pass.

It doesn't mean that simply by being there you support the status quo and oppression -- but it does mean that you can walk down the street and not notice how the world is designed with you in mind.

*snips for later*

I really like this piece on what privilege is and is not. I think it clarifies a lot of things: Where's My Extra Piece of the Pie?

Thank you for providing an explanation of the redefinition of the word "priviledge". Yeah, I was still thinking of it in that common every day sense to mean what, oh, everybody thinks it means =P

Kidding aside, the concept, again, very valid and understandable. But why, oh, why, must the language be so very tortured when gender politics becomes the topic? Now, I've a a mighty BA in Philosophy (yay, go me with my useless, but terribly fun and actually interesting, degree), and I'm used to some serious liguistic torture, but, fuck, I need a playbook to keep up with gender-neutral pronouns, neologisms, redfinitions, etc. There's some sneaky semantic perversion going on here just to trip us evil hets up, isn't there?

Denying such privilege is what support the status quo. Not calling up homophobic people on their shit is what support the status quo. Denying that their is real, systematic, and institutionalized oppression of queer people is what support the status quo. Being het, and simply existing as such isn't what support the status quo.

Okay, so just being het in unaligned/het space doesn't make me an evil oppressor by default. Well that's a relief

Still, it kind of calls into question the idea of default oppression. If simply existing as a het in a het world is not oppression, then a lot of what was considere dpriviledge would not strike me as het oppression. For example, I can get the idea of advertisements constantly pandering to het relationship and heteronormative memes, but isn't that just marketing? If 90%+ of my market is het, I'm going to advertise in het-friendly ways. It's just good business sense. That said, there's at least one or two cable channels that have lods of queer-aimed advertising. I still remember the first time I saw one of those commercials. My first thought was "Whoa, did those two guys kiss? You don't see that on commercials." and that was followed by finding a web browser and looking the company up, as they were bold enough to advertise in that way.

Eh, this thread is raising more questions for me than answers. Probably a good thing, to be honest. It does make me happy to realise that, however uninformed I am of queer issues and gender politics, I can honestly say that I am not the sort that stands back and allows individual discrimination to occur. My "Is there a problem here?" attitude has been used in defense of queer friends on occassion, and will probably come out again.

To quote Edmund Burke, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

 

[unfoundiamond]

I am lost

Please TELL ME why we are still with the white/male/middle class privilege bs... Gay and Gender bending white male middle class are bashed or fired from their jobs JUST LIKE any one else... If this white male privilege shit was true then that Senator that went MtF would have kept his job, and he didn't, I can't remember his name right now, but he was in Florida...

And representing Heterosexuals with one type of heterosexuals is like representing Gender Benders with one type, like saying straight white MtF cds are a good representation of all of us... and its not... A person can be straight or gay, any race, MtF or FtM, gender bender or crossdresser, or transexual... you can't say one type represents the group of us just like you shouldn't say that white male middle class best represents Heterosexuals... or privilege,

Am I doing okay on topic Shank? LoL sorry... I know I am a bad girl, *smile* I am shutting up... You can spank me if you'd like... *looks at the ground like she's in trouble*

 

[Homburg]

See, even though I'm queer, and even though there's a lot of queer people around me, if I'm not in a designated queer-space, I still tend to assume most people to be het. Not that I spend much time thinking about the sexuality or identity of people around me*: but if someone talks about their partner for instance, unless they give clues otherwise, I tend to assume their partner to be of the opposite sex. If someone mentions a spouse, I tend to assume their marriage to be het, even though gay marriage are legals in this great country [irony here].

I got a chuckle out of an article written in a Canadian newspaper of a couple of best friends that were both declared hets, and declared life-long bachelors, who decided to get married to enjoy the various financial benefits. Made me chuckle.

Everytime I realize that I'm somewhat unconsciously making those problematic assumptions, it annoys me. But like everyone else, I've been socialized to look at the world as 'het' by default. I'm no better than anyone else. I think that what matters is that I acknowledge those biases, and work everyday to go against them.

See, I have problems with that too. First, the statistics put it around a 90% probablility that a given person is het-ish, right? I recall it being something high. So if you do have such tall odds on Person X being het, would it not simply be the safe assumption?

Second issue is why would such an assumption be bad/problematical? When a gay man hits on me at a gay club, he is thinking/hoping that I'm gay, or at least bi. He is making the assumption about me that you are making about these people, and is doing so because of the setting I'm in. In that setting, the odds are good that a given male is going to be gay/bi. So it becomes a safe assumption. Well, as I realise that it is a reasonable assumption, the onus is on me not to be offended (I'm not, of course). So if he is making a perfectly reasonable assumption, and I am not insulted, why would said assumption be bad or problematical?

Absent of behavioural or external identifiers, the assumption is going to run with the prevailing environment. I'd just call that playing the odds, and would not be insulted. Then again, maybe I'm weird. If you are in a het bar, and not identifying as queer, and you get hit on, does it insult you? Again, honest question. (I hate to keep saying that, but it is difficult to ask some of these questions without sounding somewhat combative, and I'm trying to avoid that tone)

I begin to wonder what the distribution vis a vis het/bi/queer is for cross-dressers. I have no idea whatsoever. The only CD's I am personally acquainted with are queer.

ETA: To my eye, this is on-topic, as it discusses perception and alternate sexuality, and relates via external identifiers such as CD. It may not specifically address gender-bending, but is still discussing gender-politics and sexual awareness. If you see this as continuing to threadjack, Shanks, I will apologise and withdraw until I have something very specifically on-topic to say.

 

[DeservingBitch]

To quote Edmund Burke, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Yes, exactly (although the 'good men' think speaks of male privilege: male here being the 'default' for human beings... hehe).

And I think this is why when we're talking about (hetero)sexism/racism/classism and other isms, it's often hard for people to realize that oppression is more than obvious hainous acts like gay-bashing. The unequal power structure under which we leave screws up a lot of people and benefit only a very few -- but because heterosexism/racism/classism is often more insidious and subtle than we expect it to be, we fail to see it and thus let it continue. I have yet to encounter one single person who hasn't been guitly of charge, myself included.

And this goes back to privilege: being in a position of privilege -- either due to one's gender/sexuality/race/class/etc. or a combination of those -- one has the 'privilege' of not seeing oppression and being oblivious to privilege. So, to go back to your point earlier, being in a position of privilege doesn't make you a bad guy, nor does it in itself reproduce the status quo. It does however present you with a choice: to acknowledge and 'unlearn' your privilege so that you can call bullshit when you see het privilege used against queer people, OR to sit there and refuse to acknowlege your privilege, and tell everybody to suck it up. I'm sure you can see which choice is a vote in favor of the status quo.

 

[Netzach]

I got a chuckle out of an article written in a Canadian newspaper of a couple of best friends that were both declared hets, and declared life-long bachelors, who decided to get married to enjoy the various financial benefits. Made me chuckle.



See, I have problems with that too. First, the statistics put it around a 90% probablility that a given person is het-ish, right? I recall it being something high. So if you do have such tall odds on Person X being het, would it not simply be the safe assumption?

Second issue is why would such an assumption be bad/problematical? When a gay man hits on me at a gay club, he is thinking/hoping that I'm gay, or at least bi. He is making the assumption about me that you are making about these people, and is doing so because of the setting I'm in. In that setting, the odds are good that a given male is going to be gay/bi. So it becomes a safe assumption. Well, as I realise that it is a reasonable assumption, the onus is on me not to be offended (I'm not, of course). So if he is making a perfectly reasonable assumption, and I am not insulted, why would said assumption be bad or problematical?

Absent of behavioural or external identifiers, the assumption is going to run with the prevailing environment. I'd just call that playing the odds, and would not be insulted. Then again, maybe I'm weird. If you are in a het bar, and not identifying as queer, and you get hit on, does it insult you? Again, honest question. (I hate to keep saying that, but it is difficult to ask some of these questions without sounding somewhat combative, and I'm trying to avoid that tone)

I begin to wonder what the distribution vis a vis het/bi/queer is for cross-dressers. I have no idea whatsoever. The only CD's I am personally acquainted with are queer.

ETA: To my eye, this is on-topic, as it discusses perception and alternate sexuality, and relates via external identifiers such as CD. It may not specifically address gender-bending, but is still discussing gender-politics and sexual awareness. If you see this as continuing to threadjack, Shanks, I will apologise and withdraw until I have something very specifically on-topic to say.

The majority of crossdressers are heterosexual and remain male ID'd. Some organizations are very homophobic, actually. I know a lot of bi/bicurious men who have had a shit time with Tri-Ess for example for not being straight and rather unhappily but doggedly married, though that may not be true still and it may not be true everywhere.

 

[unfoundiamond]

I think we should poll everyone!

I think someone should make a Poll... see what the CDs or Gender Benders on Lit are, It would likely be a decent representation as we have people from all over, and a good age range...

I don't know how to do it or I would...

I am curious about the people here...

I am a Bi FtM cd, and I have to live as a woman, but dress some days... and wouldn't like to be represented except by what I am...

 

[Netzach]

I have to say DB, If you think white people don't deal with racism and descrimination that is a reflection of YOUR level of privilege. And I will tell you why...

If you have never been dirt poor, only white kid in a black neighborhood, or had to ride a school bus to your apartment on the Southside,
Then the reason you think white people aren't subject to the same (sometimes worse) harrassment, is because you've never been in these situations, I have had shit talked to me by SEVERAL black girls because I have a JLo booty, and they assume I am coming to steal the black men, I went to the emergency room one night and walked into a waiting room to see two black girls and a black guy, I walk in and walk to the bathroom, when I turn to walk into the bathroom door the guy was aparantly looking at my ass, and the girls HATED it, I hear them talking and laughing "white bitch this, and I bet you that" so I walk out of the bathroom, and call for my bf on the cell, they girl says to the others "I bet you she's with a BLACK guy", because of my body, I turned to her and said "Just because I have a nice ass doesn't mean I want a black man, Look, Is he black?" and my bf walked through the double doors 6' 220, built Italian and Irish... and smiles showing his golds to her... Needless to say she shut up... But this shit has been happening to me since high school, I always have brown skinned friends, but 95% are men... since the women tend to hate on me for no reason... (even in school today)

I also don't know why you seem to act like white people are the ones over in africa STILL enslaving children to go fight the north uganda something (can't remember but watch fallout boy video) Those african men are kidnapping african children and giving them weapons, fighting them like pitbulls, letting them kill each other, fighting someone elses war (all black mind you)

I worked for years in a Chinese restaurant, as the only white person, and delt with a lot of good and a lot of bad... EVER RACE has a amount of impreialism, and EVERYONE is the outsider somewhere...
I went to England and went into a store, the man working behind the counter was of some middle eastern decent, and he did not hide his hatred for me... a white woman.

And I have heard you say that white people top the social pyramid... I don't know what to make of that, considering the wealthyest people in the world are definately the Arabs... and you know what the golden rule is...

Point Blank, your views are very onesided.
It shows you must have been priviledged to be sheltered from people like the ones I have met. Stop thinking black peoples pain means more than my pain, or any other persons... pain is relative... and must I go here but,
If white people get pricked do we not blead? We are all people, equal, stop saying white people think we are god or something... its offensive to accepting white folks like me

**and when I say white I mean I LOOK white, I am German(dad) and Spanish(mom), the type of spanish is Castillian which means I am very pale, and my mom is from panama and spoke english as a second language... I am of mixed decent with a spanish mom, an american father, and I look white... so I also have the "mixed race, I don't fit in anywhere" problem...

Um, I grew up in the Bronx.

I lived in Pilsen in Chicago before it was filled with bohemians.

I've befriended and had enemies of every human flavor. This doesn't mean I still can't see how some of my friends are simply more politically fucked than I am, and it still didn't prevent me from noticing how I got followed around stores with my GF when I was dating a black girl.

 

[DeservingBitch]

See, I have problems with that too. First, the statistics put it around a 90% probablility that a given person is het-ish, right? I recall it being something high. So if you do have such tall odds on Person X being het, would it not simply be the safe assumption?

Second issue is why would such an assumption be bad/problematical? When a gay man hits on me at a gay club, he is thinking/hoping that I'm gay, or at least bi. He is making the assumption about me that you are making about these people, and is doing so because of the setting I'm in. In that setting, the odds are good that a given male is going to be gay/bi. So it becomes a safe assumption. Well, as I realise that it is a reasonable assumption, the onus is on me not to be offended (I'm not, of course). So if he is making a perfectly reasonable assumption, and I am not insulted, why would said assumption be bad or problematical?

Absent of behavioural or external identifiers, the assumption is going to run with the prevailing environment. I'd just call that playing the odds, and would not be insulted. Then again, maybe I'm weird. If you are in a het bar, and not identifying as queer, and you get hit on, does it insult you? Again, honest question. (I hate to keep saying that, but it is difficult to ask some of these questions without sounding somewhat combative, and I'm trying to avoid that tone)

See, the thing that is missing again is the difference between individual prejudice and systematic, socialized and institutionalized prejudice.

First, no, I'm ususally not 'offended' when people assume me to be het, or a het boy hit on me. But since it happens *constantly*, on a daily basis, and more than once a day usually, it does become quite annoying, in a way that I don't think is comparable with you being hit on once in a while by a gay guy in a gay club. I just came back from shopping, and the saleperson made the comment to me that "boys will love you in those jeans" -- not a big deal for sure on its own. But when put in context, that is, when you hear those kinds of comment all the fucking time, yes, it starts feeling more than just a bit annoying. Think about this way: you've never had to 'come out' as straight. People assume you are. I and other queer people have to 'come out' or hide in the closet (depending on the situation) on a daily basis.

And significantly, the 'het default' plays at a larger level. Marriage and the benefits associated with it is one. Insurance policies -- if I had a partner, she couldn't be covered by my insurances, whereas a male partner would. School forms assuming parents to be a mom and a dad. Hospital rules denying queer partner as 'family members'. Etc.

 

[DeservingBitch]

The majority of crossdressers are heterosexual and remain male ID'd.

That would be my take on it as well, based on my own experience and interaction with CDs.

 

[Homburg]

Yes, exactly (although the 'good men' think speaks of male privilege: male here being the 'default' for human beings... hehe).

*glares*

And I think this is why when we're talking about (hetero)sexism/racism/classism and other isms, it's often hard for people to realize that oppression is more than obvious hainous acts like gay-bashing. The unequal power structure under which we leave screws up a lot of people and benefit only a very few -- but because heterosexism/racism/classism is often more insidious and subtle than we expect it to be, we fail to see it and thus let it continue. I have yet to encounter one single person who hasn't been guitly of charge, myself included.

And this goes back to privilege: being in a position of privilege -- either due to one's gender/sexuality/race/class/etc. or a combination of those -- one has the 'privilege' of not seeing oppression and being oblivious to privilege. So, to go back to your point earlier, being in a position of privilege doesn't make you a bad guy, nor does it in itself reproduce the status quo. It does however present you with a choice: to acknowledge and 'unlearn' your privilege so that you can call bullshit when you see het privilege used against queer people, OR to sit there and refuse to acknowlege your privilege, and tell everybody to suck it up. I'm sure you can see which choice is a vote in favor of the status quo.

How do I reconcile that in the face of what I am, and past behaviour though? While I am obviously ignorant of het privilege, I have still attacked the status quo in many ways, and refused to stand idly by. Is it necessary to go to such grave lengths as unlearning a core im/perception (as, in my book, this is a bloody serious prospect), or can one simply acknowledge the concept and seek to affect change?

 

[Homburg]

The majority of crossdressers are heterosexual and remain male ID'd. Some organizations are very homophobic, actually. I know a lot of bi/bicurious men who have had a shit time with Tri-Ess for example for not being straight and rather unhappily but doggedly married, though that may not be true still and it may not be true everywhere.

Thank you. As I stated, I've precious little experience in this area.

 

[unfoundiamond]

Black girlfriends

I had a black girlfriend too,

I don't see why when I have a problem with a generalization made about my race I believe to be untrue, we all have to talk about our black girlfriends...

and believe me, a young pretty white girl(me) with a nice ass and My CROSSDRESSING black girlfriend delt with A LOT of stares and comments, and while white people tended to stare the shit talking TO ME came from mostly black girls... who didnt like interracial between whites and blacks, gay or not. (Anyone seen the movie trailer for "This Christmas" shows this phenomenon in the black community)

DOES anyone get me saying I got shit from blacks and whites equally when I identified as transgendered... in highschool the black girls where the meanest to me for identifying as transgendered...

 

[Homburg]

See, the thing that is missing again is the difference between individual prejudice and systematic, socialized and institutionalized prejudice.

First, no, I'm ususally not 'offended' when people assume me to be het, or a het boy hit on me. But since it happens *constantly*, on a daily basis, and more than once a day usually, it does become quite annoying, in a way that I don't think is comparable with you being hit on once in a while by a gay guy in a gay club.

I wasn't trying to make a linear comparison, just trying to use something from my own perspective as an example.

I just came back from shopping, and the saleperson made the comment to me that "boys will love you in those jeans" -- not a big deal for sure on its own. But when put in context, that is, when you hear those kinds of comment all the fucking time, yes, it starts feeling more than just a bit annoying. Think about this way: you've never had to 'come out' as straight. People assume you are. I and other queer people have to 'come out' or hide in the closet (depending on the situation) on a daily basis.

How do you compare queer to BDSM practice, and keeping that in the closet?

And significantly, the 'het default' plays at a larger level. Marriage and the benefits associated with it is one. Insurance policies -- if I had a partner, she couldn't be covered by my insurances, whereas a male partner would. School forms assuming parents to be a mom and a dad. Hospital rules denying queer partner as 'family members'. Etc.

*nod* Which is why I argue for civil unions or some other form of civil contract to replace the sick (and conceptually unethical) siamese twin relationship between state and church on the topic of marriage. "Equal protection under the law" should fucking mean something, and the govt should not exclude because the church tells them to.

 

[DeservingBitch]

How do I reconcile that in the face of what I am, and past behaviour though? While I am obviously ignorant of het privilege, I have still attacked the status quo in many ways, and refused to stand idly by. Is it necessary to go to such grave lengths as unlearning a core im/perception (as, in my book, this is a bloody serious prospect), or can one simply acknowledge the concept and seek to affect change?

My short answer to that: First, realize that it is NOT about you. Acknowledge and own your privilege. It's not your fault, you're not a bad person for it, but denying it makes you complicit. Second, educate yourself about it. There's tons of readings around. Third, listen to what those who don't share that privilege are talking about. They are in a position to see some stuff that your own privilege makes you blind to. Fourth, use your privilege to affect change: call your peers on their shit. Don't remain silent when you hear homophobic comments or see homophobic behaviors. Support queer activism in any way you can. Point out the 'het default' when you see it. ETA: and fifth, realize that you WILL fuck up, and you WILL make mistakes, and you WILL probably offend someone at some point. Everybody does. What matters is what you do about it: own you mistakes, and do the work to avoid making them again.

Good people aren't people who never fuck up. Good people are people that can be trusted to acknowledge that their shit stinks too, and make the effort and the work to not shit on people (scat play obviously doesn't count here).

For introductory readings:
More on what privilege is and is not
And this one, on privilege and what we can do about it --

 

[DeservingBitch]

How do you compare queer to BDSM practice, and keeping that in the closet?

I know other BDSM people don't see it the same way as I do, but BDSM to me is one of the way I fuck. It is certainly part of my queer sexual identification, but being queer to me is more than about fucking.

But I wouldn't be suprised that someone who's into a D/s relationship has a very different perspective than me on this. Also, because of what my life looks like at the moment, the implications of being 'outed' as into SM aren't the same as they could be for someone with kids, or with a different carreer or whatnot. So, in a way, I'm in a privilege position when it comes to SM, which probably explains why it is not as central as it can be for others in my gender/sexual self-identification.

ETA: this blogger has an interesting discussion on SM as an oppressed identity .