Get O'er it

[Gaia_Lorraine]

Well, in my opinion, it's a cop-out. Of course you can use whatever words you want. I see a problem with its usage because it adds nothing to the poem when listened to except confusion, and it adds nothing to the poem when looked at on the page except graphic noise. It's a cop-out because the only reason it is there is because "over" is two-syllables long and you needed a one-syllable word for your beat. Instead of finding the words that would naturally follow that beat throughout the verse, you used an obsolete contraction to artificially reduce the metric count. You look at that word and you don't think "o'er", you think "over". And you know everyone else will think "over" as well. Cop-out.

You don't need to justify yourself to me, though. Write for enjoyment. I enjoy doing the best job I can no matter what that job is, but you obviously don't, even though you say you could. That's your choice.

Does adds confusion it so?

Art is meant to stimulate is it not? If that is the purpose of art then the use of oe'r has served the pen.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Instead of saying a certain way is sad, I would simply say... 'I wouldn't do it that way' and I would..." get o'er it" <grin

Thankfully, you can say whatever you want.

What I said wasn't that a certain way is sad. I said that using an obsolete word that adds nothing to the poem at hand with the sole purpose of "make[ing] the language sound "poetic", like the classics," is, "in my opinion", "just sad..."

There is a huge difference. Grin.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Does adds confusion it so?

Art is meant to stimulate is it not? If that is the purpose of art then the use of oe'r has served the pen.

Generating confusion does not equate stimulation.

 

[MichelAngel0]

O'er here, o'er there
I don't know, & I don't care


Sorry if it sounds mean, but it kind of rhymes

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

O'er here, o'er there
I don't know, & I don't care


Sorry if it sounds mean, but it kind of rhymes

"This fucking ceiling is killing me... "
Now that is funny
(((Huggss))) MichelAngel0 you have really made my day and put a smile on my face

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

Generating confusion does not equate stimulation.

Then I will continue to be the thorn in your side
I will not falter nor change. If an artist should create a style that identifies him/her then that is surely unique. Love it or hate it, complimentary condemnation awaits each new song.

 

[Decayed Angel]

Style...

If an artist should create a style that identifies him/her then that is surely unique. Love it or hate it, complimentary condemnation awaits each new song.

Strange, a few years ago we actually had a few people here claiming that the many mispelled words, bad grammar and/or forced rhyme in their poems were part of their style. I guess then the use of archaic and pretensious gimmicks in a poem could also be called style.

 

[MyNecroticSnail]

Yes. Again, where I live, even the word "over" is now two syllables long... often pronounced... "o-ver" by modern regional accent, obviously replacing the earlier "Oo-er" or O'er as the case may be.

Accents have "evolved" in parts of the UK during the past, say, 200 years. This is because people have spread out more during the industrial revolution and having more access to developing transport. More or less the same as in the USA. Also, teaching English as in learning people to read and write their "national" language, has indeed "purified" and "refined" it, making words like "over" one syllable long as spoken in general.

There are still lots of regional diallects. Some preserved as part of their "identity" and this is where I think Gaia_Lorraine is making a point using "O'er" in her recent poem. As it would sound being spoken by her native "Lancastrian" accent, which still exists strongly in parts of northwest england.

She us gives no indication that a Lancastrian accent is supposed to be used.
Other things in the poem indicate that she has talent, but doesn't know what she is doing. It came across as more affectation, than effective. As of now, in this thread I see a major amount of talent (and one idiot, not you, not her) that she could should be listening to. She choses otherwise?
I am still confused and amused by the poetic snail poem, is it a waltz, some kind of dactyl meter. She choses not to answer. I hope both of you realize it would have been very easy to leave either some happy faced comment or an anonamous score. I didn't, her developing talent deserves otherwise, butit is her resposibility to open her mind.

As I said, a considerable amount of talent showed up in this thread.

 

[MyNecroticSnail]

open up your mind's mess
and try a little kindness (~_~)

ya know perhaps em's ar' o'er critical <grin

there is a deep 'cajun' fellow that I frequently run into and his french/american is so gargled that I wouldn't know how to write how he pronounces some of his words.

To make a poem ryhme... I have created words, a 'cop-out'? or experiment... or literary art. Instead of saying a certain way is sad, I would simply say... 'I wouldn't do it that way' and I would..." get o'er it" <grin

have a nice night

And What bringeth you to a poetry discussion? Have you ever touched on any technical aspect?
<enjoin the rite...
of the happy face comments, Gaia, they are worse than useless.

 

[MyNecroticSnail]

Strange, a few years ago we actually had a few people here claiming that the many mispelled words, bad grammar and/or forced rhyme in their poems were part of their style. I guess then the use of archaic and pretensious gimmicks in a poem could also be called style.

Well DA, some ofa us like plaid shirts wit the checkered suit. And dis is the way God tole me to rite, ya ain't arguein wit God, now are ya?I feel sorry fer ya, ya much be one o dose critics the tell-tale-trail condemms so well.

Hey, good to see you back, DA.
I don't suppose you got your public apology, from the so-called MIP did you?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Then I will continue to be the thorn in your side

Why is it that so many people take criticism of their work - even work that they admit themselves that they could have done better - as if they were personal attacks? That's silly. I don't know you, you'll never be a thorn in my side. If I read a poem that I don't enjoy, it will slip off my mind in two seconds, it won't leave me bleeding and aching.

I will not falter nor change.

Then that will be the thorn in your side. Without the will to change and improve, what's the point in writing? Continue to enjoy yourself, though.

 

[annaswirls]

just the title

"'Tis the season to be jolly"

my 5 year old asked what 'TIS means, so I taught him about contractions.

'Tis? it's "it is"

He used it in school the next day, the teacher told him it is not a good idea to use the word 'tis anymore. She is right. In general. The only time I hear 'tis is in Christmas songs.

(although she sometimes slips up and says things like "Mrs. Johnson is fixin' to have a baby" )

I think the whole o'er discussion has been interesting, I am only getting to it now. When I read the title of the poem, it drew me in, because the use of the "o'er" gave a tone of added sarcasm. "Get Over It" is plain, ordinary, over used so not as powerful anymore. I imagined someone putting on an exaggerated accent, making the title humorous. I am not familiar with the rest of the poem, and am commenting on the title only.

Surely, in general use of o'er and 'tis in modern poetry make me cringe. In general.

But in every day language, I think both can be used to make a point... not to use as if it were the "normal" way to write, but to add exaggeration, flavor, etc. Because if you use the words, the reader will think of the old language of Wordsworth, etc.


and Tzara, I love you for finding all those examples.

 

[bogusbrig]

I remember going to work when I was a teen with a smile on my face and being asked by the foreman....

'Got yer leg o'er las'neet then?'

'Aye th'lass wer'all o'er me'


A reck'n tha'd be a lass cloi'ing for me to git m'leg o'er thee annaswirls

*no face slapping!!!* pleeeze

 

[MichelAngel0]

"This fucking ceiling is killing me... "
Now that is funny
(((Huggss))) MichelAngel0 you have really made my day and put a smile on my face

G_Lorraine,

With the pics you have in your profile, you have really made my night
Come o'er here you little sexy devil you!

M.

 

[annaswirls]

I remember going to work when I was a teen with a smile on my face and being asked by the foreman....

'Got yer leg o'er las'neet then?'

'Aye th'lass wer'all o'er me'


A reck'n tha'd be a lass cloi'ing for me to git m'leg o'er thee annaswirls

*no face slapping!!!* pleeeze

A'll be saven me face slappin' fer the men with neither your wit nor charm, Mister Brig.

besides I am more of a balled fist pounding onto the chest or a good calf pinch with me toes kind of gal

 

[TheRainMan]

. . . I will not falter nor change . . .

Then that will be the thorn in your side. Without the will to change and improve, what's the point in writing? Continue to enjoy yourself, though.

bingo.

how can anyone ever improve at anything, if they make a vow to stay the same?

Gaia -- the gap in quality between the poetry of those trying to give you advice and your own is enormous. and i must say, you wear your greenness like a medal.

i wish you all the best, in your chosen path of stagnation.

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

bingo.

how can anyone ever improve at anything, if they make a vow to stay the same?

Gaia -- the gap in quality between the poetry of those trying to give you advice and your own is enormous. and i must say, you wear your greenness like a medal.

i wish you all the best, in your chosen path of stagnation.

How so sad that you so easily twist words and their meaning. Within my chosen arena where did I actually state that it is not my intention to improve?

And may I say I have never met a more vitriolic bunch of people. So if I wear my greenness like a medal who has come forth to offer advice in advancement and improvement? All I have seen is criticism.
Of those of you here who enjoy ridiculing then I would be grateful if you kept your comments to yourself. Of those few that remain who are willing to assist then you gain my respect.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Originally Posted by TheRainMan
bingo.

how can anyone ever improve at anything, if they make a vow to stay the same?

Gaia -- the gap in quality between the poetry of those trying to give you advice and your own is enormous. and i must say, you wear your greenness like a medal.

i wish you all the best, in your chosen path of stagnation.

How so sad that you so easily twist words and their meaning. Within my chosen arena where did I actually state that it is not my intention to improve?

And may I say I have never met a more vitriolic bunch of people. So if I wear my greenness like a medal who has come forth to offer advice in advancement and improvement? All I have seen is criticism.
Of those of you here who enjoy ridiculing then I would be grateful if you kept your comments to yourself. Of those few that remain who are willing to assist then you gain my respect.

That is what he says to all those who do not take his advice... <grin
it is starting to sound like a broken record...

have you ever seen the movie... "Teaching Mrs. Tingle"
well, there are more of those unhappy souls in the world than one might think.
Funny thing is I believe they might mean well to a certain extent, they just can't express themselves without downing others, it is their character. Like scorpions; they just can't help but sting those they come into contact with... or should I have said 'Snail's will slime ya'


have a quality day!!! (~_~)

 

[Lauren Hynde]

How so sad that you so easily twist words and their meaning. Within my chosen arena where did I actually state that it is not my intention to improve?

And may I say I have never met a more vitriolic bunch of people. So if I wear my greenness like a medal who has come forth to offer advice in advancement and improvement? All I have seen is criticism.

Gaia, everyone who posted to this thread offered you precious advice, with the exception of MET. We all told you how the usage of expressions like "o'er" works or doesn't for each of us as a reader. Again, please explain why is it that you take criticism of work that you yourself admit you could have done better as if it were a personal attack? It is not. Criticism is always positive. We learn from it. There's nothing vitriolic about it.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Why is it that so many people take criticism of their work - even work that they admit themselves that they could have done better - as if they were personal attacks? That's silly. I don't know you, you'll never be a thorn in my side. If I read a poem that I don't enjoy, it will slip off my mind in two seconds, it won't leave me bleeding and aching.


Then that will be the thorn in your side. Without the will to change and improve, what's the point in writing? Continue to enjoy yourself, though.

perhaps it is the methods used...

bingo.

how can anyone ever improve at anything, if they make a vow to stay the same?

Gaia -- the gap in quality between the poetry of those trying to give you advice and your own is enormous. and i must say, you wear your greenness like a medal.

i wish you all the best, in your chosen path of stagnation.

Come again? How does one pronounce "over" in one syllable?

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense at all.

O'er used as a contraction of over in order to make it fit a metric pattern I can understand. It's a lame way of doing it and poetic suicide, but it's at least within the realm of the usage of the English language. And that is what Gaia_Lorraine did. To quote her own words:

"[T]ap your foot to a 3/3 rythm you will discover that the Caps coincide with the first beat of the bar. I did this deliberately so that anyone reading could feel the flow of a poem that would ultimately reveal the exact same beat in Little Greek Houses. And that is precisely why that poem uses oe'r."

You can now try to justify it with regionalisms, with the preservation of cultural identity, whatever you want. That's not what she was doing. She did it for the rhythm - which as I said, is in my opinion as weak an excuse to use that contraction as they come - and to make the language sound "poetic", like the classics, which in my opinion is just sad...

I'm sure there are lots of ways in which o'er can still be effectively used in poetry, but I see none in her poem. It's a cop-out.

I have watched this type of help for so long that I would have thought ya'll would learn by now that you'll capture an attentive audience better if you tried a little kindness rather than ... badger ... learning Poets with snippity words shouted from soap boxes! Which is why I relayed that it is not that your really mean spirited folk but rather; it is ya'lls personality traits and it is your method of teaching; slapping a hand with a ruler!

notice: the same vicious circle of words from the same people... saying the same things!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Telling truthfully one's opinion about a given subject isn't and has never been "shouting snippity words from soapboxes". You have watched this type of thing so often, one would have thought you would have learned to do something other than stirring shit, instead of offering any of the advice in advancement and improvement that Gaia needs.

 

[MyNecroticSnail]

perhaps it is the methods used...
I have watched this type of help for so long that I would have thought ya'll would learn by now that you'll capture an attentive audience better if you tried a little kindness rather than ... badger ... learning Poets with snippity words shouted from soap boxes! Which is why I relayed that it is not that your really mean spirited folk but rather; it is ya'lls personality traits and it is your method of teaching; slapping a hand with a ruler!

notice: the same vicious circle of words from the same people... saying the same things!

Hey, cowpie....
From MyNecroticSnail...
an aha moment at the end, not quite enuff ride in the middle to get there.
it is "eyre" not "eerie" if you use the right word, it is play enuff.
Why "oe’r"?
and probably needs a few commas.
That's enuff nits for now.

From the author...
Replace oe'r with over and insert a few commas then the beat disintegrates. The poem is pure rythm, feel it in your soul as it was written.
Enough nits for now implies more to come. Keep 'em coming O great master of poets.
Words are both a joy and a toy to me, read "Spine of a Penis" or "Fetus" and you will see. I will choose the words, the reader can choose the meaning.

if you bothered to read. It was posed as a question, followed by a challenge then a poem from her, and my question was never fully answered. Gaia gets defensive.
And you try to exploit it. Like you try to exploit something Decayed Angel may have said. Who are you to leave comments like this? More important why. Is this the only rational for people to tell you how great you are.
You work in the area of wounded egos, from your soapboxes

Haiku River, really? Excuse me, did you go after Deacayed Angel because he can write them, and you can't?
Zen Mountain Poetry, really? A triple oxymoron, wow.

Your comments- (which I didn't see on the poem in question, because it may have been too complicated for you, or it may have been because she left less than a 5 on one of yours)
praise for the weak, zeros for the strong,
robbin hood, robbin hood, robbin hood
ya'lls personality traits <snicker
Now, is this going to be fodder for you shitting on peoples efforts, reputations in regards to poetry, like you have done in the past?

You work in the area of wounded egos, that is all you do.
enough of your fakirery and con jobs

And apologise to Decayed Angel

 

[Decayed Angel]

Gosh, it seems so much more literate from my point of view

This message is hidden because My Erotic Trail is on your ignore list.

DA : )

 

[annaswirls]

perhaps it is the methods used...

Can you please give an example, a real example of your method, a real comment in which you have found a flaw (yes, they are everywhere) not just a description of what you think the "right" way to critique a poem is. I would like to be able to critically consider your method but I have not seen an example, only criticism of what you think is wrong.

 

[annaswirls]

Oh MNS, nobody, I'm sure, wants to see your throat cut.

Personally, I'm finding this thread interesting. A learning experience as I know very little about poetry and the criticism of it thereof...

Thankyou

you are a wise woman in your perception of the thread. We all know little about poetry, and are here to discuss, debate, learn.

but by the way, there is one person who wants to cut MNS's throat.