Get O'er it

[champagne1982]

To a well meant (but slightly bent) poet:

To wait so long to voice advice
is something you may perceive as nice;
instead, my dear, it's a parody
of another's skill, thus a tragedy.

You say encouragement is the better critique
and a virtue in which only you are unique-
ly qualified to voice and espouse.
Yet you gladly call everyone else a louse

who doesn't express that you are the best
and so much higher than all of the rest.
As they stand on their flimsy detergent boxes
you scheme and you plot to outwit the foxes;

with private notes to the unknowing voices
you slyly undermine the other choices
of mentors and friends, who may teach of things
that a different scope of experience brings

to the lectern of valued poetry review
whether you're a new writer or a lit guru.
We all love poetry and the joy it can bring
regardless of the tune this choir sings.

So why not just admit that it's all quite absurd
and the writing of poems is more that just words
on a page and no matter if it's true or obscene
it's not what we say but instead, what we mean?

 

[normal jean]

Damn, Carrie!!

you rock!!



NJ

 

[champagne1982]

Damn, Carrie!!

you rock!!



NJ

and roll... It's wintertime, the snowsuit makes me a little rounder and I have hills to climb. Thanks for the vote.

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

perhaps it is the methods used...










I have watched this type of help for so long that I would have thought ya'll would learn by now that you'll capture an attentive audience better if you tried a little kindness rather than ... badger ... learning Poets with snippity words shouted from soap boxes! Which is why I relayed that it is not that your really mean spirited folk but rather; it is ya'lls personality traits and it is your method of teaching; slapping a hand with a ruler!

notice: the same vicious circle of words from the same people... saying the same things!

Thank you for those words.
The first time that one has not spoken down at me like a child being scolded,

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

you are a wise woman in your perception of the thread. We all know little about poetry, and are here to discuss, debate, learn.

but by the way, there is one person who wants to cut MNS's throat.

Politics, politics where ever we go
Or should that be ere we go?

 

[Sienna]

Politics, politics where ever we go
Or should that be ere we go?

No matter how far you run... you'll never escape politics

((( Lorraine )))

 

[WickedEve]

Politics, politics where ever we go
Or should that be ere we go?

Gaia, you may want to post a poem here for a thorough critique. This way you'll be choosing the poem you want discussed. If you do post a poem, remember that it will be dissected and poked. Oh, and you need to comment on a couple of poems listed in the poetry discussion cricle before you offer a poem for discussion.

 

[champagne1982]

Thank you for those words.
The first time that one has not spoken down at me like a child being scolded,

Hi Gaia...

I think you misunderstand critique of poetic content for criticism of your person. I don't see where anyone scolded you or treated you as a child, I thought you were part of a mature discussion on language use and word choices inside poetry.

If you perceive other personalities in this thread as being condescending and uppity then is it any wonder that you feel you've been treated unfairly or poorly? Perhaps, respect carries different connotations where you're from. I always feel that if people come together and discuss a topic with me and around me, then they must consider me their peer, inside the scope of the conversation and that I am worthy of their respect.

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

Gaia, you may want to post a poem here for a thorough critique. This way you'll be choosing the poem you want discussed. If you do post a poem, remember that it will be dissected and poked. Oh, and you need to comment on a couple of poems listed in the poetry discussion cricle before you offer a poem for discussion.

Thank You WickedEve

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

Hi Gaia...

I think you misunderstand critique of poetic content for criticism of your person. I don't see where anyone scolded you or treated you as a child, I thought you were part of a mature discussion on language use and word choices inside poetry.

If you perceive other personalities in this thread as being condescending and uppity then is it any wonder that you feel you've been treated unfairly or poorly? Perhaps, respect carries different connotations where you're from. I always feel that if people come together and discuss a topic with me and around me, then they must consider me their peer, inside the scope of the conversation and that I am worthy of their respect.

Respect comes with knowledge of the person and can be earned within any field of dedication. Trust comes from knowing that the person is truly trying to help; not for his/her goals, but for yours.
Constructive critical appraisal of anyone's work is essential for the development of their art. And yes, I was stand-offish during this discussion. The new kid on the block watching everyone fire their views, poking my nose in and watching how it developed.
I still have a problem knowing who is who and who I can trust but that is just a matter of time

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Respect comes with knowledge of the person and can be earned within any field of dedication. Trust comes from knowing that the person is truly trying to help; not for his/her goals, but for yours.

If I can offer you any advice right now, it's this: re-read this thread. See who treated you as a child, i.e. offered blank praise as if you were in kindergarten. See who treated you as an equal, i.e. discussed the implications of something you wrote without any bullshit.

Only one of those groups of people can conceivably have hidden goals. Think.

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

If I can offer you any advice right now, it's this: re-read this thread. See who treated you as a child, i.e. offered blank praise as if you were in kindergarten. See who treated you as an equal, i.e. discussed the implications of something you wrote without any bullshit.

Only one of those groups of people can conceivably have hidden goals. Think.

hyperbatic? hyperbolic

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

If I can offer you any advice right now, it's this: re-read this thread. See who treated you as a child, i.e. offered blank praise as if you were in kindergarten. See who treated you as an equal, i.e. discussed the implications of something you wrote without any bullshit.

Only one of those groups of people can conceivably have hidden goals. Think.

I did as you said, I re-read the thread, and I see this...

It is not my intention to advertise my poetry here, on that I can only give you my word and trust that you believe. But by heck you are the closest thing to the subject I have ever seen

http://english.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=244856

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Thank you for those words.
The first time that one has not spoken down at me like a child being scolded,

your welcome...
like I said I think they mean well but they have a hard time being nice to others. It is just their 'personality'... there are two kinds of teachers... those who drill you with words of scorn and harshness believing this is the only way to learn then there are those that use positive tones to ensure their students do not become defensive, or withdrawn and make learning a pleasure.

Have a nice night (~_~)

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

True Lancastrian Dialect flows like this... (God help those in the US of A)

IT DIDN’T SEEM REET.

Wen a fella cum walkin’ deawn eawr road, ‘Is clogs went "er—clatt, er—clatt."
An’ it struck mi, as Ah’d never knowed A pair o’clogs t’seawnd like that.

Soo Ah waited wile ‘ee getten close, Fer t’see wot wer th’matter,
Clogs doant "er—clatt, er—clatt" tha knows Thi should guh "clatt—er, clatt—er!"

Ah thowt, "Just wen ‘as passes mi Ah’ll ‘ev a look a’t’greawnd,
Cause Ah wer fair reet wonderin’ O’er th’reason fer yon seawnd.

Sos wen ‘ee sad, "Nah then theer," Wen ‘ee passed mi i’ th’ street,
Ah looked, an’ does ta know Booath ‘is clogs wer o’t’wrong feet.


---------------------

 

[Sienna]

True Lancastrian Dialect flows like this... (God help those in the US of A)

IT DIDN’T SEEM REET.

Wen a fella cum walkin’ deawn eawr road, ‘Is clogs went "er—clatt, er—clatt."
An’ it struck mi, as Ah’d never knowed A pair o’clogs t’seawnd like that.

Soo Ah waited wile ‘ee getten close, Fer t’see wot wer th’matter,
Clogs doant "er—clatt, er—clatt" tha knows Thi should guh "clatt—er, clatt—er!"

Ah thowt, "Just wen ‘as passes mi Ah’ll ‘ev a look a’t’greawnd,
Cause Ah wer fair reet wonderin’ O’er th’reason fer yon seawnd.

Sos wen ‘ee sad, "Nah then theer," Wen ‘ee passed mi i’ th’ street,
Ah looked, an’ does ta know Booath ‘is clogs wer o’t’wrong feet.


---------------------

 

[annaswirls]

comment and a request

Are you trying to teach others by talking about them as if they are not there?

Out of curiosity, how would you go about letting someone know kindly and gently and through the use of positive tones that they have a spelling error? I am serious. Totally serious. I was serious when I asked for an example of a critique in which you leave a helpful comment. Please.

Let us pretend. You're reading a friend's poem and you find a glaring, elementary spelling error. Do you ignore it? To me that is like ignoring that a friend's fly is down. Sure if you tell them, you risk feeling like a jerk, and having to be the one who momentarily embarasses the person, but in the long run you are doing them a favor.

And you might not be aware of this, but tone is often in the eye of the beholder not the person who is writing the message. Your tone is often harsh and scornful to me, even if it is not your intent.

I hope you are including yourself in "they." You use words of scorn and harshness more than 95% of people here.

Peace,
Anna

your welcome...
like I said I think they mean well but they have a hard time being nice to others. It is just their 'personality'... there are two kinds of teachers... those who drill you with words of scorn and harshness believing this is the only way to learn then there are those that use positive tones to ensure their students do not become defensive, or withdrawn and make learning a pleasure.

Have a nice night (~_~)

 

[champagne1982]

your welcome...
like I said I think they mean well but they have a hard time being nice to others. It is just their 'personality'... there are two kinds of teachers... those who drill you with words of scorn and harshness believing this is the only way to learn then there are those that use positive tones to ensure their students do not become defensive, or withdrawn and make learning a pleasure.

Have a nice night (~_~)

Met? Did you miss the lesson?

To a well meant (but slightly bent) poet:

To wait so long to voice advice
is something you may perceive as nice;
instead, my dear, it's a parody
of another's skill, thus a tragedy.

You say encouragement is the better critique
and a virtue in which only you are unique-
ly qualified to voice and espouse.
Yet you gladly call everyone else a louse

who doesn't express that you are the best
and so much higher than all of the rest.
As they stand on their flimsy detergent boxes
you scheme and you plot to outwit the foxes;

with private notes to the unknowing voices
you slyly undermine the other choices
of mentors and friends, who may teach of things
that a different scope of experience brings

to the lectern of valued poetry review
whether you're a new writer or a lit guru.
We all love poetry and the joy it can bring
regardless of the tune this choir sings.

So why not just admit that it's all quite absurd
and the writing of poems is more that just words
on a page and no matter if it's true or obscene
it's not what we say but instead, what we mean?

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

While you lot battle it out between thisen here is some more true dialect (note: dialect not accent) my father really did speak like this, bless him

1.Thammun gerrit thisen. You must get it yourself.
2.Initot? Isn/t it hot?
3.Giuzit. Give me it. (give it to me)
4.Gerritetten. Get it eaten.
5.Gerofit. Step down
6.Supitup. Consume your drink
7.Azzee getniteer? Did he get it here?
8.Eez gooinwom. He is going home.
9.Ast getnit reet? Do you understand?
10.Isit thi mam? Is it(she, this, her,) your mother.
11.Purrimineer. Put him in here.
12.Eessezitintis burra berritis. He say’s it isn’t he’s but it is.
13.Thalaft gerra newun. Replace an old object
14.Lerrus gerrus answasht. Lets wash our hands.
15.Summonusul afert gerrof. Oh look, it's my bus stop.
16.Wi afert gerrus imbooks. We have to get our Hymn Books.(in church)
17.Thamun gerrit lernt. You must get it learned or you must learn it.(as in advised)
18.Shut thigob. Shut your mouth
19.Owzeenow? How is he now?
20.Buzztop. Bus stop.
21.Aberitinterz. Ah! But it is not hers.
22.Nethen warartdooin? Now then, what are you doing?
23.Ast seenim ont elly? I have seen him on the television.
24.Les gutert pitchers. Lets go to the pictures (cinema).
25.Ast gorratanner? Have you got sixpence?(tanner meaning pre decimal coin of six pennies value)
26.Eenose nowt abartit. He knows nothing about it. (does not realize what he is talking about)
27.Eez gooint gerrit. He is going to get it. (ie:- he is asking for trouble)
28.Lerrer gerontbuzz. Let her get onto the bus.
29.Ee sez ee antadit. He says that he has not had it.
30.Atowdim buree wuntlissen. I told him but he would not listen.
31.Lerrim purrizaton. Let him put his hat on.
32.Eez goriz awom. He has got home.
33.Thakon if tha wants. You can if you want (to do).
34.Thawantsta weshthi eeroleht. You should wash your ear holes out.( ie:-you should listen, take notice)
35.Izeeonneeturn? Is he working nights?
36.Thisulpurrers onthichest. This will make you stronger.
37.Weevegorracar Bragging
38.Eez nowt burrababi. He is acting childish
39.Tha luks owder barteeth. You look older without teeth.
40.Sithitneet. I will see you tonight.
41.Tint init. It is not in it. (not in there)(trying to find something inside something else)
42.Artawreet? Greetings
43.Worart onabehtall? What are you talking about ?
44.Eegetten(eegeet) runnoar. He was knocked down by a vehicle
45.Wellal guttat futovarr sturs. Well! I'm flabbergasted
46.Nah, dust see yon ace oer theer? Now, do you see that house over there?
47.Nah, Thunder Monager lives theer. Now, the Under Manager lives there.

Insulting abusive remarks at their best
Th'art as much use as a one-legged mon at an arse-kicking contest. (You aren't much use at all!)
Dust want a leather 'n' timber kiss? (How do you fancy a kick from my clog?)
Ah'll tek a bit o' thi wom in me pocket. (There'll be bits of you missing when I've finished!)
Thaz a face lahk a constipated bloodhound! (Smile, please.)
If tha'd hafe a brain, tha'd be an ape. (You are somewhat deficient in grey matter.)
Th'art purrin' thi yed in a dog kennel! (Don't mess about with me or you'll get in trouble.)
Ah'll gi thi some clog toe pie. (Not an invitation to dinner- this is an offer to give you a good kicking.)
Th'art nor 'avvin' me on a butty. (Don't try it on with me.)
Ah'll snatch thi breath! (I'll kill you!)
Ah'll tek it eawt thi ribs! (Pay what you owe me or I'll have the satisfaction of giving you a good hiding!)
Art tawkin' ter me or chewin' a brick? (You are conversing rather indistinctly.)

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

Met? Did you miss the lesson?

So why not just admit that it's all quite absurd
and the writing of poems is more that just words
on a page and no matter if it's true or obscene
it's not what we say but instead, what we mean?

BINGO!

 

[normal jean]

While you lot battle it out between thisen here is some more true dialect (note: dialect not accent) my father really did speak like this, bless him

1.Thammun gerrit thisen. You must get it yourself.
2.Initot? Isn/t it hot?
3.Giuzit. Give me it. (give it to me)
4.Gerritetten. Get it eaten.
5.Gerofit. Step down
6.Supitup. Consume your drink
7.Azzee getniteer? Did he get it here?
8.Eez gooinwom. He is going home.
9.Ast getnit reet? Do you understand?
10.Isit thi mam? Is it(she, this, her,) your mother.
11.Purrimineer. Put him in here.
12.Eessezitintis burra berritis. He say’s it isn’t he’s but it is.
13.Thalaft gerra newun. Replace an old object
14.Lerrus gerrus answasht. Lets wash our hands.
15.Summonusul afert gerrof. Oh look, it's my bus stop.
16.Wi afert gerrus imbooks. We have to get our Hymn Books.(in church)
17.Thamun gerrit lernt. You must get it learned or you must learn it.(as in advised)
18.Shut thigob. Shut your mouth
19.Owzeenow? How is he now?
20.Buzztop. Bus stop.
21.Aberitinterz. Ah! But it is not hers.
22.Nethen warartdooin? Now then, what are you doing?
23.Ast seenim ont elly? I have seen him on the television.
24.Les gutert pitchers. Lets go to the pictures (cinema).
25.Ast gorratanner? Have you got sixpence?(tanner meaning pre decimal coin of six pennies value)
26.Eenose nowt abartit. He knows nothing about it. (does not realize what he is talking about)
27.Eez gooint gerrit. He is going to get it. (ie:- he is asking for trouble)
28.Lerrer gerontbuzz. Let her get onto the bus.
29.Ee sez ee antadit. He says that he has not had it.
30.Atowdim buree wuntlissen. I told him but he would not listen.
31.Lerrim purrizaton. Let him put his hat on.
32.Eez goriz awom. He has got home.
33.Thakon if tha wants. You can if you want (to do).
34.Thawantsta weshthi eeroleht. You should wash your ear holes out.( ie:-you should listen, take notice)
35.Izeeonneeturn? Is he working nights?
36.Thisulpurrers onthichest. This will make you stronger.
37.Weevegorracar Bragging
38.Eez nowt burrababi. He is acting childish
39.Tha luks owder barteeth. You look older without teeth.
40.Sithitneet. I will see you tonight.
41.Tint init. It is not in it. (not in there)(trying to find something inside something else)
42.Artawreet? Greetings
43.Worart onabehtall? What are you talking about ?
44.Eegetten(eegeet) runnoar. He was knocked down by a vehicle
45.Wellal guttat futovarr sturs. Well! I'm flabbergasted
46.Nah, dust see yon ace oer theer? Now, do you see that house over there?
47.Nah, Thunder Monager lives theer. Now, the Under Manager lives there.

Insulting abusive remarks at their best
Th'art as much use as a one-legged mon at an arse-kicking contest. (You aren't much use at all!)
Dust want a leather 'n' timber kiss? (How do you fancy a kick from my clog?)
Ah'll tek a bit o' thi wom in me pocket. (There'll be bits of you missing when I've finished!)
Thaz a face lahk a constipated bloodhound! (Smile, please.)
If tha'd hafe a brain, tha'd be an ape. (You are somewhat deficient in grey matter.)
Th'art purrin' thi yed in a dog kennel! (Don't mess about with me or you'll get in trouble.)
Ah'll gi thi some clog toe pie. (Not an invitation to dinner- this is an offer to give you a good kicking.)
Th'art nor 'avvin' me on a butty. (Don't try it on with me.)
Ah'll snatch thi breath! (I'll kill you!)
Ah'll tek it eawt thi ribs! (Pay what you owe me or I'll have the satisfaction of giving you a good hiding!)
Art tawkin' ter me or chewin' a brick? (You are conversing rather indistinctly.)

Gaia

This post is priceless. I have always been intrigued by linguistics, but to see this written out is just fabulous!! THanks for the glimpse into your life through such a unique ( to me, anyway) lot of information



NJ

 

[Sienna]

Gaia

This post is priceless. I have always been intrigued by linguistics, but to see this written out is just fabulous!! THanks for the glimpse into your life through such a unique ( to me, anyway) lot of information



NJ

Hi normal jean

Priceless is correct. Especially when you are used to hearing it more than be able to read it. It's so easy to take this dialect for granted when people around you, especially older people, still use it.

I have been raised in what I call a "multilinguistic environment" as strange as it is.

Local english dialect, proper spoken english "literal" education and a mother who speaks neopolitan italian with her sister every time they meet (trust me, I don't understand them, which is probably why they do it. )

I'm not confused... just amazed

 

[My Erotic Trail]

there's anna...

Out of curiosity, how would you go about letting someone know kindly and gently and through the use of positive tones that they have a spelling error? I am serious. Totally serious. I was serious when I asked for an example of a critique in which you leave a helpful comment. Please.

Let us pretend. You're reading a friend's poem and you find a glaring, elementary spelling error. Do you ignore it? To me that is like ignoring that a friend's fly is down. Sure if you tell them, you risk feeling like a jerk, and having to be the one who momentarily embarasses the person, but in the long run you are doing them a favor.

Peace,
Anna

why?
Do you find it difficult to be nice while telling someone they misspelled a word? <grin

ignore it or embarass the person... is that my only options?

okay... since you asked so... NICELY (~_*)
first: here are a couple of examples of the situation

Originally Posted by Champagne1982
Art, like the humour of Carrol O'Connor of All in the Family fame, your malapropisms and spelling simply slays me at times. ...

Orgasm, coming at the finish of sexual indulgence, could, indeed be an end-ulgence.
...................................................

Angeline: (New Poems Review)
That's good, but MET I'll smack you if you don't run spell check on my watch. There's some shifty pronouns and extraneous stuff in there too that could be corrected, but I like the imagery and wouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater as they say.

....................................................

LeBroz: (New Poems Review)
My Erotic Trail has an interesting piece here in ... And just after Angeline warned you about using that spell check. You had all the right letters in labyrinth, just the wrong order and a couple too many in twilight.

.....................................................and...

Me?
I remember reading a poem that had a mispelled word in it and I used the word (I don't recall 'what' the word was now) but in my comment I used the word several times; spelled correctly and of course highlighting it while commenting how much I enjoyed their poem. I never thought of embarassing them... in order for them to learn!

peace (~_~)

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Met? Did you miss the lesson?

yes champ... (~_*)
I missed the lesson!

ty

 

[Gaia_Lorraine]

Gaia

This post is priceless. I have always been intrigued by linguistics, but to see this written out is just fabulous!! THanks for the glimpse into your life through such a unique ( to me, anyway) lot of information



NJ

Many moons ago I came home one weekend from university with my boyfriend Mike to spend it with my parents and to let them meet him.
My mum and I popped out on the Saturday afternoon for a couple of hours to do some shopping, leaving Mike alone with my dad.
That same evening when we were out together Mike confessed that he never understood what my dad had been saying and he was praying that the 50/50 chance of his yes/no answers had been correct
He was from Surrey where they speak the Queens English and it was the first time he had heard a true dialect. It's interesting that just a few hundred miles makes so much of a difference and, not only that, a tuned ear can tell the difference between the dialect of local towns.

And of Mike? My parents continued to ask about him long after we had split up. I think he said the correct yes/no answers