Give up Your Power
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Shadowsdream
Dream Maker
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A little bump from the darkest recesses in the bowels of this forum...
I wonder if the eyes W/we see out of today differ in any way from the eyes that read this thread some time ago....
also perhaps some of O/our newer posters might be interested in picking up on the conversation...
I wonder if the eyes W/we see out of today differ in any way from the eyes that read this thread some time ago....
also perhaps some of O/our newer posters might be interested in picking up on the conversation...
A Desert Rose
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Hello Ma'am.
Another walk down memory lane for me.
Thank you. ;-)
Another walk down memory lane for me.
Thank you. ;-)
Ebonyfire
Ball Stretcher
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Back to the past
Here is a subject I would like to discuss. I will approach this from position of being a het Domme with male subs.
I am in negotiations with a candidate for 24/7. He is experienced and has had previous relationships with Dommes.
His experience is as follows:
Initially, the relationship is D/s oriented, and both dominant and sub are progressing in the lifestyle. Then the Domme falls in love with him. What happens is as soon as romantic love enters the picture, the Domme begins to soften her approach. Soon the discipline, and control tapers off until the relationship becomes almost vanilla.
Then, the Domme becomes almost submissive to her partner, in that she encourages him to take on the "normal" masculine role that society has forced on men. She defers to his judgment on anything, and next thing you know she is not dominant at all.
In the meantimes the sub has fallen love, and tries to turn it around, in that he wants her to continue to be in charge, and in short be the Domme that she assured him she was.
All in the name of love.
Now if I had a dollar for everytime a male or female sub told me these things, I could take a long vacation.
So the question to ask is this: Can you dominate at all costs? Giving up your power will ensure the demise of the relationship. It happens all the time.
MissTaken said:
Here is a subject I would like to discuss. I will approach this from position of being a het Domme with male subs.
I am in negotiations with a candidate for 24/7. He is experienced and has had previous relationships with Dommes.
His experience is as follows:
Initially, the relationship is D/s oriented, and both dominant and sub are progressing in the lifestyle. Then the Domme falls in love with him. What happens is as soon as romantic love enters the picture, the Domme begins to soften her approach. Soon the discipline, and control tapers off until the relationship becomes almost vanilla.
Then, the Domme becomes almost submissive to her partner, in that she encourages him to take on the "normal" masculine role that society has forced on men. She defers to his judgment on anything, and next thing you know she is not dominant at all.
In the meantimes the sub has fallen love, and tries to turn it around, in that he wants her to continue to be in charge, and in short be the Domme that she assured him she was.
All in the name of love.
Now if I had a dollar for everytime a male or female sub told me these things, I could take a long vacation.
So the question to ask is this: Can you dominate at all costs? Giving up your power will ensure the demise of the relationship. It happens all the time.
Last edited:
A Desert Rose
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I had a Dom. He said he loved me. I believe he did. But he never waivered from being dominate during our relationship. I think it was his way of demonstrating his love for me.
Ebonyfire
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More thoughts
My potential 27/7 sub has a need to submit, and in his case that need overrides his need to be loved. The proof of that is the fact that he has loved and been loved and it has not been enough for him.
My need to dominate overrides any need or want I may have to love. I view love as an unconditional thing anyway so love is not an issue with Me. However, having a submissive whose need to submit is congruent with My need to dominate is of overriding importance.
So I see My primary purpose as a dominant is to keep the train on track My keeping and expanding the power that My sub has given to Me at all costs.
My potential 27/7 sub has a need to submit, and in his case that need overrides his need to be loved. The proof of that is the fact that he has loved and been loved and it has not been enough for him.
My need to dominate overrides any need or want I may have to love. I view love as an unconditional thing anyway so love is not an issue with Me. However, having a submissive whose need to submit is congruent with My need to dominate is of overriding importance.
So I see My primary purpose as a dominant is to keep the train on track My keeping and expanding the power that My sub has given to Me at all costs.
Shadowsdream
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A Desert Rose said:
Hello little one....welcome into My conversation...I was hoping that you would show up eventually!
Ebonyfire
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A Desert Rose said:
I would think that keeping the D/s dynamics going would be a good demonstration of a way of loving.
I like the title of Gloria Brame's Book, "A Different Loving", in that is says what I believe to be a true statement. D/s is a different way of loving.
Shadowsdream
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Re: Back to the past
The example You have supplied for U/us is much like the topic that was the seed of this thread so long ago.
At least once every few weeks I am reminded that Domination can so easily change if the One in control uses love to be the excuse to stop or lessen the gift of Domination.
Even though in the getting to know each other phase when it is made abundently clear, that the kink and control is as necessary as food and water.
In many ways I see the role change to be a form of abandonment under the guise of a deeper caring.
When love becomes the EXTENSION of the power exchange and deepens it the magic is akin to an atomic bomb of emotions.
The best of both worlds.
Ebonyfire said:
The example You have supplied for U/us is much like the topic that was the seed of this thread so long ago.
At least once every few weeks I am reminded that Domination can so easily change if the One in control uses love to be the excuse to stop or lessen the gift of Domination.
Even though in the getting to know each other phase when it is made abundently clear, that the kink and control is as necessary as food and water.
In many ways I see the role change to be a form of abandonment under the guise of a deeper caring.
When love becomes the EXTENSION of the power exchange and deepens it the magic is akin to an atomic bomb of emotions.
The best of both worlds.
AngelicAssassin
Something Wicked
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No, but just my opinion.MissTaken said:
ownedsubgal
lost little girl
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wow, a good one. 
it's true that sometimes, with some people, love can change the D/s dynamic a bit. one doesn't become less submissive or less Dominant, but the way it is expressed may change because the love is so great. especially from the Dominant end, they may begin to feel stirrings of guilt over subjecting their sub/slave to certain things. of course, this is only the case with some. it was the case with my Master and i for a period...but i think it had more to do with difficulties i had/have (severe depression), than with love alone. there was something that happened that caused him to really SEE just how bad my depression was, see how vulnerable and delicate i was...and then suddenly beating me bloody and speaking to me as one would speak to a street walker, seemed mean and cruel to him. so there was a time when certain activities did indeed taper off. and then there was a time when he felt i needed to be subjected to certain things, but he felt it would be emotionally damaging to us both for him to do those things, so he would have them done by others. that is still the case with a few things, and it works for us so all is well. but in the end, we both realized that we have needs that NEED to be expressed with the one we love. truth be told, my Master doesn't have a need to be so sadistic and cruel with some woman that he is not madly in love with. His need is directly tied to his soulmate, to those feelings of love. as are my own...i need to be treated in a certain way and to have a certain dynamic with the man i love and who loves me. so for us, in a way, our love for one another actually intensifies the way we live this lifestyle. the guilt is still there for him sometimes, i can see it...but his need overpowers everything else. He will look at me sadly and say, "but sweet, i NEED to beat you. i need to hurt you"....and i tell him yes, i know, i understand, and nothing is wrong with that. when love is thrown into the mix, this lifestyle can take one thru many ups and downs. but for me the love makes the rollercoaster more than worthwhile.
it's true that sometimes, with some people, love can change the D/s dynamic a bit. one doesn't become less submissive or less Dominant, but the way it is expressed may change because the love is so great. especially from the Dominant end, they may begin to feel stirrings of guilt over subjecting their sub/slave to certain things. of course, this is only the case with some. it was the case with my Master and i for a period...but i think it had more to do with difficulties i had/have (severe depression), than with love alone. there was something that happened that caused him to really SEE just how bad my depression was, see how vulnerable and delicate i was...and then suddenly beating me bloody and speaking to me as one would speak to a street walker, seemed mean and cruel to him. so there was a time when certain activities did indeed taper off. and then there was a time when he felt i needed to be subjected to certain things, but he felt it would be emotionally damaging to us both for him to do those things, so he would have them done by others. that is still the case with a few things, and it works for us so all is well. but in the end, we both realized that we have needs that NEED to be expressed with the one we love. truth be told, my Master doesn't have a need to be so sadistic and cruel with some woman that he is not madly in love with. His need is directly tied to his soulmate, to those feelings of love. as are my own...i need to be treated in a certain way and to have a certain dynamic with the man i love and who loves me. so for us, in a way, our love for one another actually intensifies the way we live this lifestyle. the guilt is still there for him sometimes, i can see it...but his need overpowers everything else. He will look at me sadly and say, "but sweet, i NEED to beat you. i need to hurt you"....and i tell him yes, i know, i understand, and nothing is wrong with that. when love is thrown into the mix, this lifestyle can take one thru many ups and downs. but for me the love makes the rollercoaster more than worthwhile.
RJMasters
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BUMP!
ADR, I wanted to tell you that after reading this whole thread, there were so many other points made, but what you said so simply here struck a deep cord with me.
As I read many of the other posts, there seem to be this black and white of love or no love...kinda thing going on. As I read your post, you simply state that the best way a Dominant can show love to their submissive is be the Dom/me they are suppose to be.
There is a difference in being "IN" love with someone, and being "loving" to someone.
A Dom/me or a submissive need not be "IN" love with each other for a successful D/s relationship to exist, but they must be "loving" to each other for it to be successful.
I think the best way a Dom/me can demonstrate their love is to maintain control of themselves and their submissive.
I think the best way a submissive can demonstrate their love is to give up control and power and submit and obey.
When this is done, over time it is easy to see how one could then fall "IN" love with the other.
An interesting distinction and yet you said so well.
ty ADR
A Desert Rose said:
ADR, I wanted to tell you that after reading this whole thread, there were so many other points made, but what you said so simply here struck a deep cord with me.
As I read many of the other posts, there seem to be this black and white of love or no love...kinda thing going on. As I read your post, you simply state that the best way a Dominant can show love to their submissive is be the Dom/me they are suppose to be.
There is a difference in being "IN" love with someone, and being "loving" to someone.
A Dom/me or a submissive need not be "IN" love with each other for a successful D/s relationship to exist, but they must be "loving" to each other for it to be successful.
I think the best way a Dom/me can demonstrate their love is to maintain control of themselves and their submissive.
I think the best way a submissive can demonstrate their love is to give up control and power and submit and obey.
When this is done, over time it is easy to see how one could then fall "IN" love with the other.
An interesting distinction and yet you said so well.
ty ADR
A Desert Rose
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Re: Re: Back to the past
While I'm not the most knowledgeable submissive at the ball, I have seen this happen more than once. And I've had to ask why, more than once.
Why would a Dom/me "stop or lessen the gift of Dominance" because of love? In my mind, love would enhance the whole relationship... the Dom/me being more dominant and caring, the submissive being more pleasing and obediant. And both halves become more fulfilled.
No one has ever had an answer for me... but I have seen it happen and the Dominant lamented to me His disappointment that the relationship had changed, once He fell in love. (I knew this man very well and He was a very dominant, charismatic and charming person.)
Shadowsdream said:
While I'm not the most knowledgeable submissive at the ball, I have seen this happen more than once. And I've had to ask why, more than once.
Why would a Dom/me "stop or lessen the gift of Dominance" because of love? In my mind, love would enhance the whole relationship... the Dom/me being more dominant and caring, the submissive being more pleasing and obediant. And both halves become more fulfilled.
No one has ever had an answer for me... but I have seen it happen and the Dominant lamented to me His disappointment that the relationship had changed, once He fell in love. (I knew this man very well and He was a very dominant, charismatic and charming person.)
LadyG
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I wonder if it depends on what you go into the relationship looking for?
I know for me/Us, the D/s came after it had been discussed in detail and depth, over and over, since I was and still am new to the whole thing. It was something I had always been interested in, but had never found someone I trusted enough to pursue it with.
ADR summed it up quite well. If I didn't love Him as much as I do, there's no way in hell I'd trust him enough to submit to him. But that's just me.
I know for me/Us, the D/s came after it had been discussed in detail and depth, over and over, since I was and still am new to the whole thing. It was something I had always been interested in, but had never found someone I trusted enough to pursue it with.
ADR summed it up quite well. If I didn't love Him as much as I do, there's no way in hell I'd trust him enough to submit to him. But that's just me.
A Desert Rose
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Re: BUMP!
And here, I think, you said it much better.
RJMasters said:... There is a difference in being "IN" love with someone, and being "loving" to someone.
A Dom/me or a submissive need not be "IN" love with each other for a successful D/s relationship to exist, but they must be "loving" to each other for it to be successful.
An interesting distinction and yet you said so well.
ty ADR
And here, I think, you said it much better.
A Desert Rose
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LadyGuinivere said:
Well LadyG, if not love for me, I have to feel affection, concern, respect, trust, admiration - all those things that are the basis for love - or I can't submit to another.
So yes, I think you and I are definately on the same playing field here. ;-)
catalina_francisco
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Re: Re: Re: Back to the past
Have to admit it puzzles me too, and especially when the submissive tells the Dominant they are concerned about the changes and why. Perhaps it is a subconscious vanilla message thing tied up with the messages from mainstream days about abuse and it not being love. Perhaps they have this trigger which makes them back off when the love kicks in and even though they know why they were both attracted in the first place, and what the logical response should be, it continues to get mixed up with lessons they have been taught all their lives. Just a thought.....would sure help a lot of people though if we could come up with both an answer and solution.
Catalina
A Desert Rose said:
Have to admit it puzzles me too, and especially when the submissive tells the Dominant they are concerned about the changes and why. Perhaps it is a subconscious vanilla message thing tied up with the messages from mainstream days about abuse and it not being love. Perhaps they have this trigger which makes them back off when the love kicks in and even though they know why they were both attracted in the first place, and what the logical response should be, it continues to get mixed up with lessons they have been taught all their lives. Just a thought.....would sure help a lot of people though if we could come up with both an answer and solution.
Catalina
Cat, I think you have the right of it. People in stressful circumstances will tend to fall back on their "default" state which is normally that which we are first taught is "how one should act." It isn't necessarily love but rather guilt that hasn't quite been dealt with masquerading as loving concern. That's what I think.
AngelicAssassin
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Sure, i'll bite. People stay together for a myriad of reasons. Why shouldn't this kind of relationship thrive in love?MissTaken said:
Nothing wrong with having a romantic heart. Believing in someone tends to make you better in the long run anyway. Otherwise, can you face the mirror knowing you only stay with someone that gets off onMissTaken said:
- Bossing you around, or
- Allowing you to boss them around.
Netzach
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I don't really struggle with this disconnect as much as I used to. If I want to beat the snot out of my slave, I get to. If I want to ignore my slave, I get to. If I feel like having my ass fucked raw and he's there at the moment, I get to have my ass fucked raw. If I feel like holding hands, we hold hands. It's about what I want. I'm Queen.
I'm not about to tightly contruct my idea of my own Dominance to the exclusion of my own pleasure. Needs are important, no doubt, but variety has usually held attention spans well.
If I fall in love with someone that's also my damn prerogative. I believe I'll remain the twisted fuck I am under any circumstance.
I'm not about to tightly contruct my idea of my own Dominance to the exclusion of my own pleasure. Needs are important, no doubt, but variety has usually held attention spans well.
If I fall in love with someone that's also my damn prerogative. I believe I'll remain the twisted fuck I am under any circumstance.
AngelicAssassin
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i think we need to introduce you to Whitney's husband.Netzach said:
