Guns for everyone. Guns for all.

[JackLuis]

And the irony is that Charlton Heston is not holding a handgun. He's not holding an automatic weapon. He's not holding an AK-47 or a Bushmaster, he's holding a single shot rifle, possibly a .22 caliber.

Yet, people made that connection that the government wanted to take all guns. People made the connection that guns would soon be outlawed.

Preposterous.

As a point of information. I believe you mean he was holding a ~1760 flintlock Kentucky rifle, which is the symbol of the NRA. It was not some wimpy .22!
Heston knew his symbols.

 

[SusanJillParker]

As a point of information. I believe you mean he was holding a ~1760 flintlock Kentucky rifle, which is the symbol of the NRA. It was not some wimpy .22!
Heston knew his symbols.

My apologies. As I've never owned a gun and/or fired a gun, I don't know guns. My ex-husband, a Boston police officer, had a proud collection of guns.

My point is that Charlton wanted people to believe that the government was coming after their rifle when the government is really after the Saturday night specials, those guns that are purchased on the street for $50 with the serial numbers filed away.

As far as I'm concerned people can have their precious guns, as long as the gun owner is licensed and the gun is registered. These gun shows are a giant loophole where anyone can buy a gun. What people believe is their right under the Constitution is not something they continue to champion after one of their innocent loved ones is murdered by someone who bought an illegal firearm or bought an unregister gun at a gun show.

Politicians know that if they come out against guns, they're gone, which is why we still have people murdering people with guns. Enough is enough. It's time. The time has come. The time is now.

Everyone who wants a gun should be given a super soaker water gun for free.

"Take that! You're not so tough now that you're nipples are showing through your blouse and bra, are you?"

"Oh, my God, how could you wet your mother enough to expose my nipples to you, my own son," said Barbara Bush to her son George.

 

[DeYaKen]

To perhaps put into perspective the comment I once read concerning the pro/con gun lobbies, about how arming everyone would make for a politer society, I live in the UK, where handguns are highly illegal, as are rifles and shotguns, except for licensed and closely regulated sporting pastimes, and our police are operationally and routinely unarmed, with specialist armed units wheeled-out only when an armed response is required. We do have a certain level of deaths by firearms, but these are the figures for the year 2011, which I picked at random, then checked with my husband, who is a firearms training officer with The Metropolitan Police in London and has these kinds of statistics at his fingertips;

The population of America in 2011 was 311,700,000
The population of Britain in 2011 was 67,770,000, so the population of a vast country like America is only 5 times that of our little island. One would therefore be forgiven for assuming that the death-rates would be proportional, in the same ratio (about 5:1), given that America is a civilised, sophisticated, Western country, not some gun-happy Banana Republic. Not so;

Total firearms-related deaths in the UK for 2011: 39
Total firearms-related deaths in the US for 2011: 32,351, or 829.5 times that of Britain

The relative population ratio is 5:1, yet the firearms deaths ratio is 829:1

39 people dead is horrifying enough; 32,351 is a crime against humanity

In a comedy club the Australian comedian was half way through a routine about gun control when a member of the audience yelled "guns don't kill people, It people that do the killing" The comic stopped and called the man up onto the stage. He asked the guy to repeat what he had said and the man from the audience did just that.
The comic says, "You are quite right my friend. here have my phone."
He hands the guy his phone and turns to the audience.
"It's people that do the killing, Kevin here is quite right."
Then he turned back to Kevin.
"Thank you Kevin, now let me ask you something. Now you have my phone in your hand, are you more or less likely to call someone?"

 

[Kateateight]

See, as an Australian, I never hear stories about Americans being SAVED by their having owned a gun.

 

[SusanJillParker]

See, as an Australian, I never hear stories about Americans being SAVED by their having owned a gun.

More gun owners and their family members are shot and killed by their own guns than the criminals are that break in their homes.

The problem with giving a gun to an average citizen, even after giving them fire arm training, is that they don't have the desperate mind of a criminal. Where criminals have no second thoughts in pulling the trigger and taking someone's life, the after homeowner doesn't share the same mindset.

To survive, the victim has to be just as crazy as the criminal. To survive, the victim has to do what they need to do. To survive, the victim must be ready to pull the trigger and kill the criminal.

We're seeing more people take on criminals. People are sick of being pushed around. I feel bad for the terrorist group that invades the United States as every Mom, Pop, grandpa, grandma, and everyone in between will meet them with an arsenal of weaponry.

"A terrorist group invaded the south side of Chicago today, only, they didn't get very far. The same thing happened to terrorists in Michigan, Montana, Wyoming, and New York. Diners at a deli in downtown Manhattan, took on a small army of armed terrorist with their handguns and killed them all."

"Miss, what do you do for a living?" The reporter stuck a microphone in her face.

"I'm a secretary for a law firm," she said.

"And why did you feel that you needed to take action and shoot these terrorists," said the reporter.

"This is my country. Nobody fucks with Americans and America, no one," she said staring in the camera while aiming her magnum. "If they come here, no trials and no jury, they're going to die."

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Well open carry has passed both houses here in Texas and the Governor has already said he would sign it...so it's pretty much a done deal.

I guess I'll have to polish up my hogleg, it's been gathering dust in the gun safe for quite sometime. It will feel good having it hanging from my hip.

 

[SusanJillParker]

Well open carry has passed both houses here in Texas and the Governor has already said he would sign it...so it's pretty much a done deal.

I guess I'll have to polish up my hogleg, it's been gathering dust in the gun safe for quite sometime. It will feel good having it hanging from my hip.

Yeah, but, as you know and no doubt will willingly admit, much in the way that Massachusetts and Vermont doesn't follow the lead of the rest of the country, Texas should have succeeded long ago.

They may as well be their own country, the United Republic of Texas. Texans are so far out of step with the rest of the country, they actually thought that GW Bush was a great president.

A contestant for a Miss America pageant summed it all up when asked to name a foreign country and she named, yeah, you guessed it, Texas.

It's not surprising that Texas is reverting back to the days of shoot 'em up with everyone holstering a gun.

"Hey, I saw that piece of steak first. Get your hand off my slab of beef," said one woman to the other.

"Why don't we settle this outside at high noon," said the second woman.

At high noon the woman stood on Main Street with their guns at the ready.

"Ready? Draw!"

Both women were soaked through their clothes and to the skin when each one pulled out her super soaker.

 

[Handley_Page]

Total firearms-related deaths in the UK for 2011: 39
Total firearms-related deaths in the US for 2011: 32,351, or 829.5 times that of Britain

The relative population ratio is 5:1, yet the firearms deaths ratio is 829:1

39 people dead is horrifying enough; 32,351 is a crime against humanity

I think it says more about the standard of education (or the lack thereof) and training, particularly in firearms.

And the irony is that Charlton Heston is not holding a handgun. He's not holding an automatic weapon. He's not holding an AK-47 or a Bushmaster, he's holding a single shot rifle, possibly a .22 caliber.
Yet, people made that connection that the government wanted to take all guns. People made the connection that guns would soon be outlawed.
Preposterous.

This ain't no .22 rifle: http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/charlton-heston-1.jpg
I doubt this is, either: http://www.motherjones.com/files/imagecache/master-image-main/heston425x320.gif

 

[SusanJillParker]

I think it says more about the standard of education (or the lack thereof) and training, particularly in firearms.




This ain't no .22 rifle: http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/charlton-heston-1.jpg
I doubt this is, either: http://www.motherjones.com/files/imagecache/master-image-main/heston425x320.gif

Who cares about the kind of gun? You're missing the point. Besides, asked and answered already with Jack Louis.

 

[rjordan]

The population of America in 2011 was 311,700,000
The population of Britain in 2011 was 67,770,000, so the population of a vast country like America is only 5 times that of our little island. One would therefore be forgiven for assuming that the death-rates would be proportional, in the same ratio (about 5:1), given that America is a civilised, sophisticated, Western country, not some gun-happy Banana Republic.

Your figures are entirely plausible. The problem is your assumption. America is made up of gun-happy Banana Republics interspersed with well populated civilised, sophisticated areas resembling Western countries.

We have worked around and sometimes even hidden our Balkan nature, but like the mad uncle, they occasionally manage to get out of bed and terrorize the rest of us.

A number of Founding Fathers, products of the Enlightment that swept Europe in the 18th Century, managed to cobble together one of the greatest experiments in human history. But we're doing our best to shoot it all to fucking Hell.

The crazies are armed, dangerous and very stupid. Many Americans are looking on in awe, just as you are.

rj

 

[Handley_Page]

Who cares about the kind of gun? You're missing the point. Besides, asked and answered already with Jack Louis.

I fear you may have missed mine.
The second picture is not the type mentioned by Jack Louis (a Flintlock ?).

One cannot, therefore talk about him holding that weapon and simply dismiss it as a particular type. Had you said "rifle" and not mentioned the calibre or type, you'd have been quite right.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Yeah, but, as you know and no doubt will willingly admit, much in the way that Massachusetts and Vermont doesn't follow the lead of the rest of the country, Texas should have succeeded long ago.

They may as well be their own country, the United Republic of Texas. Texans are so far out of step with the rest of the country, they actually thought that GW Bush was a great president.

A contestant for a Miss America pageant summed it all up when asked to name a foreign country and she named, yeah, you guessed it, Texas.

It's not surprising that Texas is reverting back to the days of shoot 'em up with everyone holstering a gun.

"Hey, I saw that piece of steak first. Get your hand off my slab of beef," said one woman to the other.

"Why don't we settle this outside at high noon," said the second woman.

At high noon the woman stood on Main Street with their guns at the ready.

"Ready? Draw!"

Both women were soaked through their clothes and to the skin when each one pulled out her super soaker.

Out of step...you bet, lowest unemployment rate in the country, other then North Dakota.

No income taxes. Now open carry.

Used to be a robber took a chance robbing someone with concealed carry, but with open carry, they'll know who's ready to fight back and maybe they brought a knife to a gun fight.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

In a comedy club the Australian comedian was half way through a routine about gun control when a member of the audience yelled "guns don't kill people, It people that do the killing" The comic stopped and called the man up onto the stage. He asked the guy to repeat what he had said and the man from the audience did just that.
The comic says, "You are quite right my friend. here have my phone."
He hands the guy his phone and turns to the audience.
"It's people that do the killing, Kevin here is quite right."
Then he turned back to Kevin.
"Thank you Kevin, now let me ask you something. Now you have my phone in your hand, are you more or less likely to call someone?"

Yeah, I don't get his point or did I laugh. The comic is an asshole who knows nothing about anything.

On my coffee table lays my Model 1911. I keep yelling at it to kill someone. So far it has refused. I'm think about retiring it, maybe the Glock will listen to me.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

See, as an Australian, I never hear stories about Americans being SAVED by their having owned a gun.

That's because the media here is biased against guns, they are after all, all liberals. There are plenty of stories where the hapless granny shot the home invader dead with her .45 derringer.

Or the odd story of the wife shooting the would be rapist with her .45 APC.

The papers are full of them, back in the middle of the paper where no one ventures.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Your figures are entirely plausible. The problem is your assumption. America is made up of gun-happy Banana Republics interspersed with well populated civilised, sophisticated areas resembling Western countries.

We have worked around and sometimes even hidden our Balkan nature, but like the mad uncle, they occasionally manage to get out of bed and terrorize the rest of us.

A number of Founding Fathers, products of the Enlightment that swept Europe in the 18th Century, managed to cobble together one of the greatest experiments in human history. But we're doing our best to shoot it all to fucking Hell.

The crazies are armed, dangerous and very stupid. Many Americans are looking on in awe, just as you are.

rj

And in the document that cobbled together the greatest experiment in human history, the founders, in their infinite wisdom included the second amendment. Yea for them.

 

[oggbashan]

It is difficult, if not impossible, from the UK to judge the arguments about guns in the US.

The statistics (posted above #75) comparing deaths by firearms in the US and UK make some of us think something is wrong in the USA. Even if you compare murders and manslaughters by 100,000 of population, the US seems infinitely more dangerous than the worst European country.

If we take our children by car to Disney Paris, and take a wrong turning, ending up in the worst ghetto suburb by mistake, we could ask any passer-by for directions and are likely to get them. We are very unlikely to be attacked or robbed.

But if we hire a car in the US, and as obvious tourists accidently drive into the 'wrong' district, there is a real risk. We don't understand. We don't have 'no-go' areas. We have areas with a higher crime rate than elsewhere, but the statistics suggest that the risk in such areas in the UK is miniscule compared with in parts of some US cities.

 

[R. Richard]

Think:
You are lying in bed, it's 3AM. You hear someone breaking into your home, via a window.
If you're a six foot tall, 200 pound man, you MIGHT be able to deal with the situation with a baseball bat. (If you do, you're stupid.)
If you're a five foot tall, 100 pound woman, you need a handgun to deal with the situation.
But WAIT! You can call the scumbags and your dearly beloved may have a chance to confront the intruder(s), as they're sentenced for your murder.
I was sleeping. when I head someone break my kitchen window. I got up and found an intruder advancing on me. I called out, "Halt or I fire." He didn't halt and I put a.475 Wildey round into the punk and then a double tap. I called the scumbags and told them what had happened and told them that I would put the punk pout for the garbage men to pick up, in the morning. The scumbags then came and worried about the punk and his family. It turned out that there's some sort of ticky tacky law against forcing an attackers family to work the streets to pay a professional fee.

 

[oggbashan]

Convictions in England and Wales for possession of weapons 12 months to end March 2015: 1,946

Convictions in England and Wales for burglary 12 months to end March 2015:
35,945

Population of England and Wales: 53.9 million in England, 3.1 million in Wales = 57 million.



In 2012/13, the police recorded 8,135 offences in which firearms were used, a 15% decrease compared with 2011/12. Offences involving knives or sharp instruments also fell by 15% between 2011/12 and 2012/13 (to 26,340). For context, overall police recorded crime fell by 7% over the same period.

Firearms continue to be used in a small and diminishing proportion of total police recorded crime (0.2%).

There were 30 fatalities in 2012/13 which resulted from offences involving firearms; 12 fewer than the previous year and the lowest figure since the National Crime Recording Standard (NCRS) was introduced in 2002/03.

People aged between 15 and 29 made up 62% of seriously or fatally injured firearm victims, while the same age group constitute 20% of the population as a whole.

 

[rjordan]

That's because the media here is biased against guns, they are after all, all liberals. There are plenty of stories where the hapless granny shot the home invader dead with her .45 derringer.

Or the odd story of the wife shooting the would be rapist with her .45 APC.

The papers are full of them, back in the middle of the paper where no one ventures.

But apparently you have ventured there.

Suppose you give us something real to deal with from your page 5 stories. A verifiable citation or two. How about some statistics? FBI must have some that back up your claim, particularly since gun deaths will outstrip auto deaths this year. There must be a ton of gun totin' grannies to tell us about from FBI statistics.

I'll reciprocate with at least 10 for every one you provide. Mine will include innocents who have died from gunshot wounds.

Wanna play?

rj

 

[rjordan]

And in the document that cobbled together the greatest experiment in human history, the founders, in their infinite wisdom included the second amendment. Yea for them.

They wrote it so that militia members could own and carrying flintlocks like the one you identified. It wasn't the Founding Fathers who gave you nearly unrestricted access to advanced military weapons. It was the right-leaning SCOTUS, and only recently.

But it is the law of the land now.

rj

 

[rjordan]

It is difficult, if not impossible, from the UK to judge the arguments about guns in the US.

Many of us can't figure it out either.

But in fairness, I've traveled extensively all over the country, often related to work, in some of the worst neighborhoods in Los Angeles. I have never ever been in a situation where I thought a gun would improve things. Not even in Texas. Even in the "bad" neighborhoods, a little street smarts normally is all that is required to be safe.

The truth is, most gun fatalities are either self-inflicted or the persons involved are known to one another. Stupid gun accidents by gun fondling yahoos, family squabbles or neighborhood squabbles. It's not like we have people prowling the streets ready to shoot anyone who walks by.

rj

 

[Zeb_Carter]

They wrote it so that militia members could own and carrying flintlocks like the one you identified. It wasn't the Founding Fathers who gave you nearly unrestricted access to advanced military weapons. It was the right-leaning SCOTUS, and only recently.

But it is the law of the land now.

rj

You're seeing things, I didn't identify anything, except the second amendment.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

But apparently you have ventured there.

Suppose you give us something real to deal with from your page 5 stories. A verifiable citation or two. How about some statistics? FBI must have some that back up your claim, particularly since gun deaths will outstrip auto deaths this year. There must be a ton of gun totin' grannies to tell us about from FBI statistics.

I'll reciprocate with at least 10 for every one you provide. Mine will include innocents who have died from gunshot wounds.

Wanna play?

rj

Do your own homework, I'm not your google bitch.

 

[sr71plt]

Do your own homework, I'm not your google bitch.

You're the one who claims the material is there, so it's really up to you to evidence it unless you're just making it up. It's YOUR homework that was questioned.

 

[rjordan]

Think:
You are lying in bed, it's 3AM. You hear someone breaking into your home, via a window.
If you're a six foot tall, 200 pound man, you MIGHT be able to deal with the situation with a baseball bat. (If you do, you're stupid.)
If you're a five foot tall, 100 pound woman, you need a handgun to deal with the situation.
But WAIT! You can call the scumbags and your dearly beloved may have a chance to confront the intruder(s), as they're sentenced for your murder.
I was sleeping. when I head someone break my kitchen window. I got up and found an intruder advancing on me. I called out, "Halt or I fire." He didn't halt and I put a.475 Wildey round into the punk and then a double tap. I called the scumbags and told them what had happened and told them that I would put the punk pout for the garbage men to pick up, in the morning. The scumbags then came and worried about the punk and his family. It turned out that there's some sort of ticky tacky law against forcing an attackers family to work the streets to pay a professional fee.

Sorry. This sounds like the wild stories most gun fondlers dream about until they think it actually happened.

rj