Heteros submitting to bisexual encounters

[monster666]

Re: Re: re: soft limits

What complicates matters is that many submissives get a larger sense of fulfillment in doing things they don't want to do, in order to please their dominants. They might be unhappy while performing the particular task, or undergoing the ordeal, but having done so, the knowledge that they overcame their own objections to please their dominant can be so satisfying that they acheive great satisfaction.

Exactly.

 

[Pinklady]

Interesting

 

[cellis]

Re: Re: re: soft limits

What complicates matters is that many submissives get a larger sense of fulfillment in doing things they don't want to do, in order to please their dominants. They might be unhappy while performing the particular task, or undergoing the ordeal, but having done so, the knowledge that they overcame their own objections to please their dominant can be so satisfying that they acheive great satisfaction.

Thank you JB... you said it far better than I could. I feel exactly that way...

 

[Pinklady]

Interesting

Very interesting!
LMAO

 

[monster666]

hmm.. another hijacked post I see. Before this post, the last post was logged by evil brat, and was hijacked by pink lady.

Arg....

 

[EvilBrat74]

Yea, i know....That sucked!

 

[lovechild27]

I have yet to see bi sexuality as a big deal, esp if it is a one time thing.

It is just some kinky wet friction when you break it all down....

 

[monster666]

Well, it can be a very big deal for those who are hetero. My guess is that it's a very hard limit for most, and somewhat firm for most of the rest.

I have yet to see bi sexuality as a big deal, esp if it is a one time thing.

It is just some kinky wet friction when you break it all down....

 

[monster666]

Maybe it's time to revisit this after the thread Killermuffin had on the General board regarding bi-male stuff.

 

[SpectreT]

Good call, monster666

Since I posted it there, I don't know if I need to post here, too, but I've already got a couple of gender identity issues (which are only issues because I'm not quite brave enough to face down the "label culture" and just be me, "t' hell with them") Which are quite enough for my distracted mind to handle without sucking cock, or taking it where the sun don't shine. Besides, I'm pretty sure I'd like it (which kinda scares me, a little), so I don't quite think it goes into your angle of doing it expressly and solely for the entertainment of (or proof of your submission to) your Domme.

As to kissing a guy on the mouth..... Eugh. <shudder> that squicks me so bad, I don't know if I could do that for any woman.

 

[monster666]

Re: re: soft limits

A number of people have posted that there are things they would never be interested in doing and would only do them to please their Dom/me. As a domme, I'd have a problem asking my sub to do anything simply for my pleasure when I knew he wasn't getting anything (else) out of it. Maybe that's just because I love him lots.



Lain

Sometimes I LIKE limits pushed just for that reason. In those cases, it's her pleasure that gives me mine. And a lot of it.

 

[cellis]

Re: Good call, monster666

Since I posted it there, I don't know if I need to post here, too, but I've already got a couple of gender identity issues (which are only issues because I'm not quite brave enough to face down the "label culture" and just be me, "t' hell with them") Which are quite enough for my distracted mind to handle without sucking cock, or taking it where the sun don't shine. Besides, I'm pretty sure I'd like it (which kinda scares me, a little), so I don't quite think it goes into your angle of doing it expressly and solely for the entertainment of (or proof of your submission to) your Domme.

As to kissing a guy on the mouth..... Eugh. <shudder> that squicks me so bad, I don't know if I could do that for any woman.

Spectre T I do love your posts! I meant to reply to this earlier.

I think some of us have our little gender identity issues, whether we are male or female, and of course depending on the cards dealt to us by genetics, (mustn't discount that).

I am not certain when it becomes less of a big deal what others (ie society) thinks of us and more of a big deal of what we think of our selves... gender identity wise.

I can see where submitting to another male for a male might be an earth shattering decision, where as submitting to another female for a female does not carry quite the connotation in the society we live in. I mean, after all, most men have their lesbian/ 2 women together fantasies. Now the idea of 2 men together... well I like it if I can join in....

Take care Spectre...

 

[cymbidia]

I've been in a number of threesomes, of each kind.

IF the dynamic is right between those involved, it can be wonderful. The single most crucial element, i've noticed, is the headspace of the man or men involved. Perhaps it's only ben my experience, but it seems to me that men usually (not always) have a more difficult time dealing with the side issues than do women - *even* if the thing consists of two women and them.

I've been in MMF threesomes where the men basically avoided touching each other - and the experience was wonderful for us all. I've been in MMF threesomes where everyone fucked everyone and there was one Top for two bottoms - and everything was fine for us all.

I've had only one not-good threesome in my life, and that was one wherein the man who is soon to be my former husband did it with a good friend of ours just to please me, to try to be a little wild. Afterwards, he freaked out big time. She and i were fine but he freaked out. Needless to say, we never did that again. (Actually it became, almost immediately, something we simply didn't discuss, another of what was eventually an immense number of Off Limits Subjects in our marriage.)

The success of a threesome, as has been already discussed completely in this thread, all depends on the headspace and communicative abilities of those involved.

 

[tiez]

Hard and soft limits and the lines that move

I've been reading this thread and heard many mention of hard and soft limits and people's respecting those limits.

I think that's very important, as trusting one's Dom/me to respect your limits is one of the most important aspects of a D/s relationship (IMHO).

I was involved with a Domme, my first Domme, for several years and I had done all the filling out of limits things and we talked about them and we decided what was and wasn't a hard and/or soft limit. I had several items that were hard limits back then when I started in D/s. Piercing, Male on male play, scat, children animals, blood, etc. A lot of the typical hard limits.

Since I started really playing in D/s a couple of the real hard limits I had at the time have changed. Piercing is one. Back when I started I was pretty firm about my feeling on piercing. No way you were gonna poke holes in me. A couple years later I offered to my Domme that she could pierce me if she wanted, having mentioned to me that 'this [my nipple] would look so nice with a ring in it <evil grin>'. As I said, I offered and she declined. I think she was afraid that I was doing it (offering it) only for her. A few months later, I told her "I'm getting a piercing and I'd like to do it with you. But if you don't want to, I'm going to get it done anyway. I'm sure I'm going to do it, but I'd like to have you there". I suppose that finding out that I wanted to have it done for myself, not just for her, made her really want to have it done to me. We ended up getting the piercing with a friend of hers doing it and me being cuffed while it happened. It was pretty powerful experience and we both enjoyed it immensely.

Beyond that, it's now back to the limits thing. My limit changed as I learned more about D/s and about how much I trusted someone. And about how much I learned about my own body.

Now onto the more precise question at hand. Male bisexuality in a D/s relationship, aka forced bisexuality. This was also a very hard limit. It still is with any Domme other than my first. I've not yet found anyone else I trust as much to allow this to happen with. i.e. There's only one person I trust to do this with (and of course the male person she would choose to join us on this . My limits are different with different people. Some people I wouldn't dream of letting do alot of things to me, but there are some that I trust implicitly to keep me from harm.

So, while forced bisexuality remains a hard limit for me, I can make the exception with one person.I would trust her to make sure it happened in a safe and supportive environment, knowing how much of a step this would be for me.

Also, being involved with my Domme, who is herself biand poly, has taught me ALOT about other lifestyles. While D/s is an alternative in and of itself, being with her provided more insight into other lifestyles that I may not have understood as well without being intimately involved with her.

Hopefully this all makes sense. Writing into this little box is a little difficult to keep context, particularly when my web browser can't keep up with my real typing. It's like being on a really old modem

Summary: limits can change. Different people can have different limits with me. That's just what I've experienced. And I'm sure there's more to learn about it as I continue down the line.

Tiez

 

[fallon2]

Re: limits

When a Master is pushing the limits for his sub he must not push too hard, too soon, or too fast. RESPECT the sub if the Master expects to be rspected and pleased.
Sheesh, people need to be respected and their limits as well should be respected. Listen to each other and see why the sub doesn't think he or she can fulfill your command and who knows maybe there is some misunderstanding on their part.

 

[SpectreT]

I've been in a number of threesomes, of each kind.

IF the dynamic is right between those involved, it can be wonderful. The single most crucial element, i've noticed, is the headspace of the man or men involved. Perhaps it's only ben my experience, but it seems to me that men usually (not always) have a more difficult time dealing with the side issues than do women - *even* if the thing consists of two women and them.

I've been in MMF threesomes where the men basically avoided touching each other - and the experience was wonderful for us all. I've been in MMF threesomes where everyone fucked everyone and there was one Top for two bottoms - and everything was fine for us all.

I've had only one not-good threesome in my life, and that was one wherein the man who is soon to be my former husband did it with a good friend of ours just to please me, to try to be a little wild. Afterwards, he freaked out big time. She and i were fine but he freaked out. Needless to say, we never did that again. (Actually it became, almost immediately, something we simply didn't discuss, another of what was eventually an immense number of Off Limits Subjects in our marriage.)

The success of a threesome, as has been already discussed completely in this thread, all depends on the headspace and communicative abilities of those involved.

Of Course it depends on the headspace of the men involved! We're a raw, emotional breed, we men... Things effect us quite powerfully and deeply, especially about love and sex. Worse for us, we're heavily socialized to keep it quiet and keep it controlled, so these feelings can really be difficult. Women, in general, are the more practical, emotionally tougher, more able to deal with life as it is, rather than as we feel it should be. We're romantics and dreamers, and really aren't prepared for certain things.

(God, one of these days, I'm going to say too much on here....)

Mind you, that's just my opinion, however based in observation it is. I may be mistaken.

 

[Richard49]

I'm going to ask a question that may raise some hackles:

Does it *matter* whether you're bi or hetero?

It seems to me, if bisexual encounters aren't a hard limit, then you're willing to engage in bisexuality. Whether or not you personally identify with the label "bisexual" really has no effect on whether or not you can (or do) participate in same-sex behaviors.

As to MDoms expecting bisexuality from women but FDoms not doing so...well, that's a whole different question isn't it? Women, socio-culturally speaking, can engage in bisexual encounters without facing the social stigma that gay and bi-identified men face. It's bullshit, but there it is. Yet another way that lesbian-chic rears its ugly head.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just have the freakin' sex that we want to have, without needing to assign labels to it?

Hey, don't laugh. Everybody's got a dream.

You have stated it so well.

I am a Dom
I am male

It is my preference to have a bi sub
It is also my preference to be poly

Should I accept a sub for an ltr that is not either of these or oppses them?

NO !!!!!

 

[Richard49]

Others have already said what is in my mind about this, and with astounding elegance and economy of words, too. I do, however, have a comment with regard to the question above.

Anything is a big word. I don't think i've ever said or felt that i would do anything to please my Dom/me. I have limits. We all have limits. Even those who so earnestly proclaim themselves limit-free, a species of sub found mostly in chat rooms, in my experience, have limits. (The next time you're faced with such an assertion, just ask if they'd kill themselves to please their Dom/me. That'll shut them up.)

I want to please my Dom/me, make no mistake about it. but inside my relationship to him/her, i'm always still me. I have fears and needs and anxieties that must be met within the skin of my relationship or, well, it simply doesn't work.

I don't think i'll ever claim that i'd do *anything* to please my Dominant; some things will remain (forever?) on the other side of my "willing to do" line. We call those things hard limits, as likely you know, and any Dominant worth the title will respect them. In part, i see the function of limits as channels of discussion with regard to the sexual and emotional needs of the partners within the relationship.

(P.S. I'm fully bisexual. The opening scenario isn't one i'd have any problem with.)

This takes us to "joining" with a sub or Dom that meets our needs and limites.

 

[Richard49]

I have no reference point on this subject except my own experience which does not include being involved in the BDSM world. I will say this. If the sub is truely repulsed by the thought of a homoerotic encounter and goes through with one to please the Dom they are great risk for psychologic damage and deep pain. I think every relationship needs limits formed around the needs and desires of those involved. True coersion should not be a part of any relationship. Underlying all, there must be willingness.

I have been in situations where a pandora's box of troubles have been opened because I did things that my partner thought he wanted me to do. Once done, he wanted to put me back into the bottle in which I had previously voluntarily entered. The marriage ended due in part to his hypocracy. I guess all I am saying is caution should be exercised in this area.

I do not know if this is what you are referring to but I think it illusatrates your point

[damn I need to learn to spell and type]

Over my many years....I am getting very old.... I have encountered many men in the nilla world that thought they wanted to see "their woman" with another woman.

After it was over the woman wanted more ... he did not .....
the fantasy when made real was more then his ego could handle

 

[Richard49]

Re: Re: re: soft limits

What complicates matters is that many submissives get a larger sense of fulfillment in doing things they don't want to do, in order to please their dominants. They might be unhappy while performing the particular task, or undergoing the ordeal, but having done so, the knowledge that they overcame their own objections to please their dominant can be so satisfying that they acheive great satisfaction.

In addition they often find they personally did enjoy it

 

[Richard49]

I've had only one not-good threesome in my life, and that was one wherein the man who is soon to be my former husband did it with a good friend of ours just to please me, to try to be a little wild. Afterwards, he freaked out big time. She and i were fine but he freaked out. Needless to say, we never did that again. (Actually it became, almost immediately, something we simply didn't discuss, another of what was eventually an immense number of Off Limits Subjects in our marriage.)

I can not count the number of men I have meet that wanted a threesome till they had one ..... than they never wanted one again...... but the female involved wanted more.

Why?

The mens egos.

 

[cellis]

I can not count the number of men I have meet that wanted a threesome till they had one ..... than they never wanted one again...... but the female involved wanted more.

Why?

The mens egos.

You know I never really thought much about this until recently. Himself and I had been discussing a third person to be involved with or to play with.

He turned to me and said that he could never share me with another man, but had no problem sharing me with a woman. I asked him why and he said that he knew that a woman would never be a threat to our relationship.

 

[Shoshi]

i would never submit to it, but on the otherhand... if i was tied and forced.. i think i would enjoy it

im straight btw.. but sexually, being made to do something i dont want to do can be a big turn on

 

[jewel_GR]

deleted

 

[Ebonyfire]

My answers

Monster wrote:

* Is this common in a D/s environment/scenario?

I do not know if it is common, but I use checklists and I have found that most of my subs do not mind forced Bisexual encounters.

* Has anyone (male or female) been involved in such a senario - a D/s thing with a straight sub engaging another of the same sex?

I have not, but mainly because I do not usually play with one sub at a time, and if I play with a sub in public it is not sexual play.

* Who craves this, who would submit and why?
I have a slave now, and I assure you, if I want him to suck a cock he will. I also have a sub who would do it also. They both do not consider themselves bisexual, but they do consider themselves obedient (submissive) to My will. In other words they do it to prove their devotion to Me.

* Is this an example of unreasonable pushing of limits?

How can it be unreasonable if it is not a hard limit?

My slave has no hard limits because we are life partners. And he has implicit trust in Me.

Ebony <Mistress to slave tavish>