hey KillerMuffin- or anyone who might know-?

[wildsweetone]

However, I certainly appreciate your implication that things might not "make sense" to a reactionary illiterate like myself. So glad that you clarified that for me, in all your unbiased editorial wisdom. How nice the view must be from up there.


Oh, you may "want" to add the word "wont" to your editorial arsenal- but that may be another ridiculous undersight by a close-minded individual, as I am wont to be...

I did not call you a reactionary illiterate. I did not say I am unbiased. I apologise for using the wort 'want' instead of the word 'wont'. I say the word a lot, but I rarely read or write it. I did not say you were close minded nor that you make ridiculous undersighted comments.

I am not continuing in this conversation as I now understand it's not possible to keep personal feelings out of the discussion as I had originally hoped it would be possible to do.

I apologise.

 

[Wantonica]

I'm just going to whisper my opinion: WHY DISPLAY HIS WORK IF YOU THINK IT IS THAT BAD? Phew, sorry, but I had to say it... forgive me for my indiscretion. It has obviously been removed, but why encourage the reading of the shit? *let another man try to do me remotely like the dude in that story and watch how I go off**knife in hand*

Hugs,
Wantonica

 

[M.A.Thompson]

Did anyone else notice that the author of this indefensible piece of trash is one of the Author’s Hangouts old nemeses?

 

[wildsweetone]

Did anyone else notice that the author of this indefensible piece of trash is one of the Author’s Hangouts old nemeses?

Yeah, when I got the link to work I realised I knew the name... He had a lot of problems with learning how his computer worked when he first came here. He also had a lot of problems with a personal relationship at the time (i think i recall that right - it was a while ago).

 

[Madame Manga]

Dang, I thought that ID sounded familiar. I don't recall his details, though. Probably for the better.

MM

 

[Wantonica]

Sheesh, I feel like I'm getting sucked in by a wind tunnel... so glad I have a strong grip.

Giggling once again,
Wantonica

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Wantonica:

I cited the passage as an illustration of intent. Does the scanty depiction of a dubious "orgasm" tossed into a bloody rape indicate that the woman enjoyed the rape? I would say, no, considering that the final passage had her curled up in the fetal position around her violated body. My citation was not a promotion, unless it was to be considered a promotion of awareness. I wanted to see what other people thought, and whether such a thing was offensive to anyone else.

I'm not the kind of individual who looks the other way at unpleasantness merely to avoid conflict. If other people choose to be passive, that's their prerogative. I put the link in so that people who actually care about not condoning vengeful violence against women on a pleasant adult erotica site could see what Americandemon had written.

This story is not a toss-off. If you read the rest of his writing, you will see evidence of a very wormy and rank psyche, in many subtle capacities.

You are free to ignore anything you like. I'm free to spew venom.

I am glad, however, to hear that you would kick his ass if he tried to jam a cell phone up your ass.

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Sorry, Sweet one.

I tend to react poorly to people asking me if things "make sense now". I didn't mean to go overboard on my interpretation of your intent. Also, I apologize for thinking that you assumed I was incapable of viewing this story from an artistic perspective. I am sure that was poor email context crossing the wires of communication.

However, I will reiterate that I would not have a problem with this story if it were in "extreme".

mlle, if you don't like this kind of stuff, why the heck were you in the non consent category anyway?

*sigh*

Because,

this, to me, is not "non-consent"! I like non-consent stories. I have written non-consent stories.

Does this story conform to your idea of "non-consent" as set forth by Literotica mores and the general opinions of those who submit, read and post here?

Or is it "EXTREME"?

yours in civilized discussion,

Miss Blue Pen

 

[Wantonica]

My Response...

I can understand your need to bring this matter to public attention. I can also relate to that need. I find, however, that any attention to a nutball is good attention. In any case, by the time I was on the thread and tried to read the shit, it was unavailable. Thank goodness. I think you are a great person, and if I had the time, would articulate with you. Thank you for bringing the horrific story to light, but there are many more in its shadow. People call me a sicko -- joshing, of course-- for being so open-minded. Yet, there are some serious sickos out there who don't show it until they hurt someone. My 2 cents...

Hugs,
Wantonica

 

[wildsweetone]

Sorry, Sweet one.

I tend to react poorly to people asking me if things "make sense now". I didn't mean to go overboard on my interpretation of your intent. Also, I apologize for thinking that you assumed I was incapable of viewing this story from an artistic perspective. I am sure that was poor email context crossing the wires of communication.

However, I will reiterate that I would not have a problem with this story if it were in "extreme".



*sigh*

Because,

this, to me, is not "non-consent"! I like non-consent stories. I have written non-consent stories.

Does this story conform to your idea of "non-consent" as set forth by Literotica mores and the general opinions of those who submit, read and post here?

Or is it "EXTREME"?

yours in civilized discussion,

Miss Blue Pen

MlledeLaPlumeBleu, i accept your apology. "make sense now" is a common phrase for me and a few in my neck of the woods (kiwi slang perhaps). i, of all people, realise how difficult it is to get the intended tone into postings, and i've just noticed i haven't used a smiley through any of this - mainly because rape does not make me smile.

it's not the crossing of the lines of conversing where this medium causes problems, it is the way we ourselves receive the messages sent. we all have our own baggage to carry and frankly, it tends to colour most of the emotional changing messages/stories we read anywhere online.

the only way any of us can remove ourselves from being sucked in the wind tunnel (thanks wantonica) is by being analytical or ignorant. sometimes ignorance really is bliss eh, but being analytical is only going to help improve our writing skills.

i don't go into the non-consent area because frankly the very saying 'non-consent' means to me that something is going to happen that is against another person's wishes and i don't wish to read such things.

i don't think that the minimalistic portrayal of Beth's orgasm should be the reason for the story mentioned being moved into the 'extreme' category. i do think that the cell phone being put where it will not be heard ringing is a good enough reason.

the description for non-consent stories says: 'Fantasies of control'. having an orgasm or not does not appear to be an order of the day for that category.

it may be in the process of being removed, but the story can still be reached by going through the index.

edited to add: sorry for the lack of caps, hand is playing up again.

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Whatever. Just give me a windmill, I guess. *laugh/sigh*

Yeah, there are a lot more sickos waiting out there in the darkness. Why even bother?

And yes, the story is still posted, right where it was. Just go to non-consent, first page, "A Cunt in an SUV."

Or you can enjoy this poetry.

My Breeding Toy
by americandemon
I can see the fear in your eyes.
There is no pain if you open your thighs.
You will do everything I say.
If not my dear you will pay.

I grab that ass and pull it up high.
A pussy in heat as you begin to cry.
I rape and ram your cunt as you scream.
All the while your aching for my baby making cream.

I pull your head up as I grab your hair tight.
My finger slips in your ass as you still try to fight.
Cunt filled with my hot, sticky cum as I pull out of my breeding toy.
She looks at me innocently and says would you like me to have a girl or a boy.


And now you are mine
by americandemon
The door closes and now you are mine.
I strip you down so my eyes can dine.
Thrown on a cold table promptly tied.
I know I said I wouldn't hurt you but I lied.

The pleasure of pain you shall receive.
Orgasms beyond your comprehension you will achieve.
Sucking on your clit I pour hot wax on your tits.
Then I spank your pussy with oh so many hits.

Ice packs on each nipple you wonder what's going to happen to you.
Cock rapeing inside now as nipples are poked with needles all the way through.
Blood on breast cunt filled with cum.
You came so many times your pussy is numb.


My personal opinion? Psycho-sexual sadism and rape is not something the average person "just writes about". Plain ol' rape, sure. Lots of guys fantasize about that and don't act- but this is not a normal turn-on. Period. And just because this particualr sicko is hiding in plain sight is no reason to ignore him.

The man who raped and murdered a classmate of mine had talked and fantasized about it for years. Free speech. Don't pay attention, it'll only encourage him. Not that he needed the encouragement, apparently.

That's all I really have to say, or ever had to say.

Miss Blue Pen


WSO: If you read the beginning of the thread, KM stated that the reason for this story's acceptance was that the woman had an orgasm.

 

[DarlingNikki]

Since we're quoting his submissions, here's some more, in a slightly different vein:

A boy's lessons, A man's scars
by americandemon ©

The past has created what you see before you now.
A baby given away I don't care why I don't care how.
Forty year old babysitter who likes to touch and show.
A four year old learning a lesson he didn't want to know.

Same boy another year older and another lesson to learn.
Taken and tortured with a hypodermic needle by two teen girls who took their turn.
As adoption boy grew he heard his worth in so many ways.
I hate you,I wish we never picked you up,why can't you be more like,ah the early days.

Teen years of never being good enough to win a beautiful girls heart.
Twenty something and numb with scars on a wrist and not feeling too smart.
In his thirties now no self-esteem and not able to look into a mirror without feeling hate.
He thinks to himself why didn't she abort me of course now it's too late.

 

[Dirty Slut]

Yet it provokes the mind to wonder...

And I wonder how Laurel can read all the way through each of the stories that get submited on this site? She must have a castiron stomach.

DS

 

[wildsweetone]

okay taking this a step further... please explain how, if the story is moved into the 'extreme' category, it becomes acceptable there?

the kind of portrayal of events that this story represents is not acceptable to many people no matter where it's located. do we agree there? i'm sure we do basically.

therefore, should all such stories be banned from Literotica?

yes i saw KMs comment on the orgasm... i haven't had a chance to check out where it says that specifically... i'll have a look tomorrow.

 

[Dirty Slut]

Good question...

I remember somebody here saying that the extreme site is not really located with literotica, but linked to it by them, and fed by them with stories too extreme for this site, like bestiality, scatology and such.

DS

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

The poem DarlingNikki quoted above clearly shows the roiling anger inside this guy. He's furious at beautiful women, his mother, at people who can afford nice vacations, at women who have nice cars and talk on cell phones. He sees brutalization and rape as a justified means of leveling the playing field. He's obsessed with women as "baby-making machines" and "cum-buckets", and with sowing his "seed". He fantasizes about a vision of perfection, a blue-eyed, 120 lb blonde angel who who will see past the fact that he's bald and old and fat and just love him, because that's all he wants- just to be loved!

But only by a blonde-haired, blue-eyed 120 lb angel, and since they never gave him the time of day- those bitches- they're to blame for the "monster he's become".

It's not about the worth of his writing, or it's merit. To say that is useless Devil's Advocacy. This man's body of work presents the picture of an individual well on the path to raping or even murdering someone. I read his writing as a diary of intent.

Constitutionally, yay. Go out there and be a psycho-sexually sadistic sociopath- speech is free. However, private sites have a right to decide what they want to promote under their banner. People's tolerance dictates what is acceptable. Lit banishes material that the majority of the users find unacceptable to the "Extreme" pages.

That's their policy. They find his story acceptable. I disagree.

Bear in mind that in no way does Laurel have time to read every line of every story that crosses her computer, so it may have gone under the radar- or, as KM said, may have been accepted under strictly applied pre-drafted definitions. That is their ultimate choice. I am merely stating my opinion.

Miss Blue Pen

 

[Dirty Slut]

Amen Miss Blue Pen

DS

 

[Madame Manga]

Re: Good question...

From what I can tell by reading the complaints of people whose stories have been relegated to Extreme, those stories are more or less in limbo. Extreme apparently doesn't get updated all that often. Heck, if I had to deal with stuff like this, I wouldn't update it all that often either. ;-)

I checked it out once a long time ago. I think--believe it or not--that I wanted to see if MY stuff was too raunchy for Lit. ;-) I found out it wasn't. But I read several stories in the Extreme non-consent section while doing my research and ran across nothing as nasty as the story described here. This guy sounds like an anger-retaliatory type, if you want to get technical, and yeah, he is probably working himself up to the real thing.

It does seem like there are certain 'triggers' that get you sent there, as opposed to the overall tone of the story. With the volume of stuff that Laurel has to sort through, I'm not surprised she has to do it that way. But it doesn't seem to work all that well, IMO, in avoiding what she probably wants to avoid. That would be outright rape stories, which are NOT the same as n/c despite superficial similarities. I'm a non-consent fan who knows right where she draws her lines, and I've found plenty of awful stuff like "A Cunt in an SUV" on Lit. One illogical orgasm does not an acceptable story make.

But until recently, I never considered bringing the offensive stories to Laurel's attention. I thought, hey, it was accepted, so it must have been acceptable, right? Apparently not, since she removes things when there are valid complaints. Want to go on a category-cleansing hunt? ;-) If you hate n/c to begin with, never mind, but if anyone else would like to try to help get rid of the rotten apples in the barrel, let's compare notes. Mlle Bleu?

MM

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

I'm more than game, MM....*laugH*

I thought this was an anomaly, but apparently not....

 

[DarlingNikki]

Actually, I posted that example to show that anger comes from somewhere. The guy (and since we're assuming all his work represents his true feelings, we may as well do so in this situation as well) is also angry at the mother who gave him up, the adoptive parents who neglected him, and the people who molested him, and has tried to commit suicide. No one is simply born "a twisted piece of shit." I think it's too bad that we can only have empathy for victims of abuse who turn their anger in on themselves instead of out on others.

That is not to say I think anyone should like the person or the stories, or that the stories are appropriate for the site. Just that we all reflect on what it takes to bring out those kinds of feelings in someone.

 

[MathGirl]

A real prince of a guy

I remember the writer in question pitching an absolute fit on this site a while back. Totally out of control. Now that I see some of the sick things he writes, I feel I understand him better. I understand that he's a self-serving, twisted, self-pitying lowlife.
MG

 

[Madame Manga]

No one is simply born "a twisted piece of shit." I think it's too bad that we can only have empathy for victims of abuse who turn their anger in on themselves instead of out on others.

The research is going in a particular direction right now: that some people have brain function problems from birth that reduce their ability to handle stress and violence. Everyone is damaged in some way by severe abuse, the theory goes, but a few people, given a certain set of conditions, seem to turn those scars into weapons. Death row and Super Max is cram-full of them, and their surviving victims either emulate them or stagger around with the physical and emotional wounds for the rest of their lives. Empathy is a little beside the point, IMO. You can feel sorry for them if you like, but we can't fix them yet, and perhaps never will. There's nothing to be done but to get them the hell off the streets.

Then again, you get someone like Ted Bundy, who was not abused or deprived in any way as a child, and still decided to do what he did best. Some people ARE born twisted and seem to lack any governing mechanism on their impulses. They can be intelligent, charming as hell, smooth and successful, and still be the worst possible variety of human being. They cannot see other people as anything but cattle to be used for their pleasure. These ones stay out of jail longer, but get more things accomplished, don't you know. These people are also not fixable, and generally wouldn't want to be normal if they could be made so.

It's nice to think that a little compassion and kindness in the world could make things all better. For most people that's true, because they are capable of giving and responding to love. Unfortunately, there are some for whom it's already too late.

MM

 

[DarlingNikki]

Well I'm not convinced that nothing can be done. And I don't think empathy (which has nothing at all to do with "feeling sorry for" - pity is an opposite of empathy) is ever beside the point. And if people are just "born that way," well then it seems even more cruel to hate them for it.

I don't think that compassion and kindness alone make things all better. (Were you deliberately trying to make my point of view sound silly and simplistic, or did I just express myself poorly? I think sometimes that simple sounding statements can be mulled over and disected for hours, but people don't always want to join me in that...) However if someone is angry and damaged, calling them names and refusing to see them as a fellow human being only reinforces their point of view that no one cares about them, everyone is against them, and really they deserve it anyway, so hell, they might as well commit whatever crime is expected of them.

We each have a threshold past where we feel we can no longer do good, and mine stops well short of death row, but I have nothing but sincere admiration for those who can go that distance. I feel that the fact that I can't stems only from my lack of skill, not from the impossibility of the task. I don't think there is ever a "too late."

 

[Guest]

Darling, Darling Nikki:

I understood why you posted, and I believe your intentions are fine. But I don't believe a tragic childhood is an excuse for an adult with choices. When I read about the lives of killers, rapists and child molesters I feel great compassion for who they were as children, but little for who they are today, the persona made awfully manifest to the public. For all the tragedy in some lives there are too many more persons who live with it, even in great pain, and choose not to perpetrate it on others. They go unnoticed for the most part and the 'sinners' get the headlines and misguided bleeding hearts. Tis a pity I believe. I speak from knowing those who were harmed by such choices, theirs is a more compelling authority and call for love.

Again, I appreciate your good will and thoughts, this is just my thinking.

Perdita

 

[DarlingNikki]

Re: Darling, Darling Nikki:

...For all the tragedy in some lives there are too many more persons who live with it, even in great pain, and choose not to perpetrate it on others. They go unnoticed for the most part and the 'sinners' get the headlines and misguided bleeding hearts. Tis a pity I believe. I speak from knowing those who were harmed by such choices, theirs is a more compelling authority and call for love.
...
Perdita

They don't go unnoticed by me, and my misguided heart bleeds for them as well. I spoke up here, not because I feel more concern for someone who hurts others because he was hurt, but because that's the issue that was raised. I don't think some people deserve love more than others. I do think that most people are able to dredge up some feelings for those who turn their suffering inward. If I were to come across someone who couldn't, I'd speak up in that situation too.