Hey Trolly?

[PatCarrington]

Nope Pat...I don't want to know about the oval nor about what's been going in your shorts since I happened on the scene

yes you do.

i can tell.

 

[Tongue lasher]

By the way, the doggy comment is for comic relief only.

Lol I know it is... I may not be too internet savvy but I'm not THAT daft

 

[annaswirls]

I only skimmed this thread so sue me if I am way off... lol

omg I just spent a half hour writing a reply and somehow deleted it

and it was good goddamn it!


bottom line
of course we scratch

we are poets. we are itchy people.

no one understands us and our itches
and this is a porn site who wants to be too serious here anyway?
there are other places for that academic bs.

eh hem, and I kind of like those places too sometimes.

I guess here we don't usually throw misplaced commas at each other or call each other fucking losers when we um make a grammatical error and when poetry really sucks, doesnt mean you have to get nasty. were were talking about that?

But seriously, there are serioulsy hilarious and seriously talented people here who live in the real nasty, critical world, and what the fuck, sue me if I say something nice! I generally do any serious criticism in private when asked, or after I ask if it is wanted.

all you gotta do to join the mafia is be semi-humorous, semi-talented and um well, stick around. it is easy. If you want more serious criticism ask.

poetry mafia is so much cooler than the inner circle. I have been exercizing my inner circle, it is toning up quite nicely if anyone wants to join.

So I dont comment too much to new people because I have gotten bitched at too often like how dare you make a comment on my poem, my mother loved it.

I am strangely attracted to the Smurf.
I think I need my meds readjusted.

It is like Gullivers Travels all over again,


I have missed this Trolley guy. It he like Mister Rogers Trolley guy? I guess I need to stop being such a lazy ass and post some ppoems so I can get some honest feedback around here, damn it.

eh hem, and you can learn alot from positive comments, and the lack thereof as well.

so I only skimmed this thread, sorry if I am not making any sense, I am avoiding Christmas.


~anna

 

[WickedEve]

Since everyone seems to be on this thread, or probably reading it, I submitted two poems. They are from 2001 when I first came to lit. They rhyme. They have good content but... anyway, do any of you plan to make fun me after you read them? Why did I submit them? Different reasons. Like what? Well, I don't know. So, look for Sex Hole and Come to Bed.

 

[annaswirls]

oh damn, did I miss the barking?

then I most definately missed the biting?


grrrr is there time for a belly rub?

or did I blow it by being well a bitch

 

[PatCarrington]

Re: I only skimmed this thread so sue me if I am way off... lol

omg I just spent a half hour writing a reply and somehow deleted it

and it was good goddamn it!


bottom line
of course we scratch

we are poets. we are itchy people.

no one understands us and our itches
and this is a porn site who wants to be too serious here anyway?
there are other places for that academic bs.

eh hem, and I kind of like those places too sometimes.

I guess here we don't usually throw misplaced commas at each other or call each other fucking losers when we um make a grammatical error and when poetry really sucks, doesnt mean you have to get nasty. were were talking about that?

But seriously, there are serioulsy hilarious and seriously talented people here who live in the real nasty, critical world, and what the fuck, sue me if I say something nice! I generally do any serious criticism in private when asked, or after I ask if it is wanted.

all you gotta do to join the mafia is be semi-humorous, semi-talented and um well, stick around. it is easy. If you want more serious criticism ask.

poetry mafia is so much cooler than the inner circle. I have been exercizing my inner circle, it is toning up quite nicely if anyone wants to join.

So I dont comment too much to new people because I have gotten bitched at too often like how dare you make a comment on my poem, my mother loved it.

I am strangely attracted to the Smurf.
I think I need my meds readjusted.

It is like Gullivers Travels all over again,


I have missed this Trolley guy. It he like Mister Rogers Trolley guy? I guess I need to stop being such a lazy ass and post some ppoems so I can get some honest feedback around here, damn it.

eh hem, and you can learn alot from positive comments, and the lack thereof as well.

so I only skimmed this thread, sorry if I am not making any sense, I am avoiding Christmas.


~anna

boy, you get around, girl.

 

[WickedEve]

Re: I only skimmed this thread so sue me if I am way off... lol

omg I just spent a half hour writing a reply and somehow deleted it

and it was good goddamn it!


bottom line
of course we scratch

we are poets. we are itchy people.

no one understands us and our itches
and this is a porn site who wants to be too serious here anyway?
there are other places for that academic bs.

eh hem, and I kind of like those places too sometimes.

I guess here we don't usually throw misplaced commas at each other or call each other fucking losers when we um make a grammatical error and when poetry really sucks, doesnt mean you have to get nasty. were were talking about that?

But seriously, there are serioulsy hilarious and seriously talented people here who live in the real nasty, critical world, and what the fuck, sue me if I say something nice! I generally do any serious criticism in private when asked, or after I ask if it is wanted.

all you gotta do to join the mafia is be semi-humorous, semi-talented and um well, stick around. it is easy. If you want more serious criticism ask.

poetry mafia is so much cooler than the inner circle. I have been exercizing my inner circle, it is toning up quite nicely if anyone wants to join.

So I dont comment too much to new people because I have gotten bitched at too often like how dare you make a comment on my poem, my mother loved it.

I am strangely attracted to the Smurf.
I think I need my meds readjusted.

It is like Gullivers Travels all over again,


I have missed this Trolley guy. It he like Mister Rogers Trolley guy? I guess I need to stop being such a lazy ass and post some ppoems so I can get some honest feedback around here, damn it.

eh hem, and you can learn alot from positive comments, and the lack thereof as well.

so I only skimmed this thread, sorry if I am not making any sense, I am avoiding Christmas.


~anna

I stopped reading your post after "we are poets. we are itchy people." I don't itch. I bathe. I do it every week. And I change my panties most days. I have Monday, Tuesday and Friday written on the ones I have. Don't ask about the other days.

 

[annaswirls]

Re: Re: I only skimmed this thread so sue me if I am way off... lol

I stopped reading your post after "we are poets. we are itchy people." I don't itch. I bathe. I do it every week. And I change my panties most days. I have Monday, Tuesday and Friday written on the ones I have. Don't ask about the other days.

metaphor come on Eve get with it!

:rolling up the newspaper: bad poet! bad!


(was that better?)

 

[annaswirls]

Re: Re: I only skimmed this thread so sue me if I am way off... lol

boy, you get around, girl.

I am pretty much a scratchin' pattin' slut, yep. Sad but true. I am very itchy. I need some of Eve's lotion I guess.

 

[WickedEve]

And... has anyone warned T.L. that I'm a drama queen? Like... I even started my own I'm a Drama Queen thread. I just don't want her shocked when she sees the drama and the posts about dildos and the avs of my boobs and... all the attention I get, even though I try really, really hard to avoid it.

 

[annaswirls]

And... has anyone warned T.L. that I'm a drama queen? Like... I even started my own I'm a Drama Queen thread. I just don't want her shocked when she sees the drama and the posts about dildos and the avs of my boobs and... all the attention I get, even though I try really, really hard to avoid it.

oh yes! Our little hermit, Eve!

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Re: Re: I only skimmed this thread so sue me if I am way off... lol

metaphor come on Eve get with it!

:rolling up the newspaper: bad poet! bad!


(was that better?)

You didn't ask about the other days.
Better? Yes. Yes, I like being swatted with a newspaper. Well, I didn't before, but now...

 

[WickedEve]

oh yes! Our little hermit, Eve!

I need to come out of my shell. I need to leave the nest. Burst out of the cocoon! Spit the nuts out of my cheeks and leap from the tree.

 

[Tongue lasher]

And... has anyone warned T.L. that I'm a drama queen? Like... I even started my own I'm a Drama Queen thread. I just don't want her shocked when she sees the drama and the posts about dildos and the avs of my boobs and... all the attention I get, even though I try really, really hard to avoid it.

Nope nobody told me...but hey that's okay...I'm the newbie here so I understand that NOBODY tells me anything....

As far as dildos and boobs are concerned...I have a set of each so you can't shock me.

 

[WickedEve]

I'm going to bed, but I'd like to leave ya'll with a final thought:
Life is difficult. I spend all day in the turnip fields, wearing my possum skin gloves, and bending waayyy over to squelch those ridiculous rumors. So, poetry is an escape from the turnips, the possum gloves, and those ridiculous rumors about... well, it doesn't matter what they're about.

Goodnight.

 

[Tongue lasher]

I'm going to bed, but I'd like to leave ya'll with a final thought:
Life is difficult. I spend all day in the turnip fields, wearing my possum skin gloves, and bending waayyy over to squelch those ridiculous rumors. So, poetry is an escape from the turnips, the possum gloves, and those ridiculous rumors about... well, it doesn't matter what they're about.

Goodnight.

Goodnight Eve and really no hard feelings

 

[PatCarrington]

Goodnight Eve and really no hard feelings

awwww.

everyone likes happy ending.

 

[BooMerengue]

Everybody likes happy endings but nobody likes my Smurf?

Something is definitely wrong. I take him everywhere I go. He's like my blankie. He comforts me. And he doesn't cost much to feed.

 

[PatCarrington]

Everybody likes happy endings but nobody likes my Smurf?

Something is definitely wrong. I take him everywhere I go. He's like my blankie. He comforts me. And he doesn't cost much to feed.

i like your smurf, boo.

what's not to like. he's colorful, and so economical.

 

[BooMerengue]

and he's so much more fun than a bra.

 

[jthserra]

It all seems a bit ironic

and maybe it is like a big pendulum, with the weight beginning to swing again.

In reading the comments made by Tongue Lasher, I couldn't help but think that TL was making the right point but with the wrong poets on the wrong poems. TL, if you look at a fairly recent posting of mine titled "Building" you will see a complimentary comment with constructive criticism provided by Eve. A comment she made a day or so before your first comment on her poems.

If you go through her poems you will find several similarly complimentary comments with constructive criticism from me. You will also see some others by someone called YDD.

I am not sure how long TL has been reading here, but about six months ago, shortly after the public comments feature was added here at Lit, the public comments were often used as a means of encouraging other poets with constructive criticism. Criticism that was received by some (especially Eve and a dozen or so others) as significant feedback and as a helpful tool to continuing improving our work. YDD and I seemed to trade the lead in public comments, with Eve, Angeline and a few others right there too.

Unfortunately, not everyone accepted this feedback as positive. On occasion the feedback may have seemed harsh, though certainly nowhere near the crapola statements that have been excreted of late. I voted a poem the way I thought it should be rated and then I explained why I voted that way, sometimes with recommendations or ideas they might consider for improvement. What followed was an onslaught of complaints and attacks in the forums and in public comments. YDD had the good sense to work under a name without any work posted, so he (I have always assumed YDD was a he) faced only the more public ostricism. I was a brave soul who commented from the same name I had my work posted to and from that time attracted my own personal unabombers who followed me not only in the poetry I posted, but also in the prose. Though I have a pretty good idea of who the people are, I decided not to stoop to their level and simply learned to trim a few low scores off each and everything I do to get a real gauge of my work.

A number of poets here came to the defense of YDD, me and several others that were caught up in the tumble. Eve and Lauren were two of the loudest voices who supported the people who where providing the criticism on the poetry, along with Angeline, Liar, Tath, Boo and a handful of others. I hung in for a while, but when I saw the votes on my work fall to nothing, I stopped commenting and withdrew from the New Poems review, withdrawing from the poetry scene altogether. YDD stuck it out longer, but left not too long after.

In recent months I returned and found that, as TL correctly indicates, there is a lot of backslapping going on here, and hey, if it is warranted, I think it's great. Unfortunately, I see a lot, a whole of lot backslapping on some pretty mediocre (at best) work. While I agree about what TL says, I think she is off base directing the comment at Eve and Lauren, two who have been the most vocal here supporting constructive criticism.

Yes, poets sometimes get didactic, we play some games with meanings, sometimes actually conceal what we are saying in the verbage we use. Sometimes it's a ruse, hiding inferior work, other times there is reason, perhaps very personal reason for the linguistic subtrifuge. I think, to automatically dismiss a poem that is not immediately understandable as inferior work is short sighted. You cheat the poet of his/her voice, but the reader cheats himself/herself too, you cheat yourself the experience of the complexities of the work.

More specifically, Eve's poem "Stereogram Seduction" initally had me spinning, wondering where she was coming from. Looking at the title, I spotted Stereogram and something clicked. Initially thinking that a stereogram was the old slotted cylinder inside which you spun the images, making them appear to move, but with a quick google I learned that Stereograms were those puzzles you look at, where looking at it a certain way a 3-D image appears. Her later mention of Magic Eye reinforces the image.

Suddenly the poem became very clear and I was blown away as each line carried me though the steps I take when I try to draw the 3-d image out of the jumble of pictures on the page. I joined Eve as the (strangely) nude 3-D images appeared and thought, yes, very sexy.

For some the poem may have been a simple drug trip in the kitchen, for me it was a well crafted poem with interesting phrasing that not only presented its message, it presented in a manner that physically made me a part of the poem. Poetry like that deserves the highest praise. It is poetry that hopefully won't just age here at literotica, it is poetry that deserves to land in some other publication.

I guess some good has come from the irony... I have seen one of the more vocal attackers of the constructive criticism actually working now to improve their poetry, using some of the very techniques and practices that he once ridiculed in this forum. I guess it was good someone finally got through.

And then there is Billy Collins... but that my friends, strangers and unabombers is a completely different story.

Forgive me for being even more long winded than Anna... It's been building up in me for some time.

Eve thank you for your continued support of my poems, reading and commenting... and criticising. Lauren thank you for Pessoa and the lights in the stars. Angeline... thank you for proving that the world is not all iambic, regardless of my continued scansion. Other readers, commenters and poets, thanks for the reads, comments and poems... I steal more than you know from you.


jim : )


PS... yeah, that was a bit too dramatic. just call me a drama queen like Eve. I do take small satisfaction that my daughter is a much bigger Drama Queen than I am .

 

[Tathagata]

Re: It all seems a bit ironic

In recent months I returned and found that, as TL correctly indicates, there is a lot of backslapping going on here, and hey, if it is warranted, I think it's great. Unfortunately, I see a lot, a whole of lot backslapping on some pretty mediocre (at best) work. While I agree about what TL says, I think she is off base directing the comment at Eve and Lauren, two who have been the most vocal here supporting constructive criticism.

The problem is the definition of "mediocre" varies with the person.
I'll often pick out a poem from someone " new" or someone who I see has a great idea to present and praise it and tell people to read it.
It's the idea and feeling that come across that's important.
Not the form or style or if you can find a rhyme for " apathetic"

We all started out writing things we'd be ashamed to submit today.
I needed positive feedback alot more then than I need it now.


Also part of the " backslapping" as it's called is because many of us here " know" a certain poets style and thus can see what they are doing and saying and see how the use words and images etc.
It's like music...why do you like Stevie Ray and not Muddy Waters...it's all blues right??

it's what hits you and grabs you and, TL, when and if you ever read a piece of poetry and instead of just reading it you " feel" it
you will understand.
to paraphrase a few thousand years of Zen wisdom

" You must empty your cup to taste my tea"

get rid of all your preconcieved notions and read each poem with an open mind

I need coffee

 

[twelveoone]

Hello. My name is Eve and I'm a victim of a troll.
Yes, this person has a right to criticize my work, but not insult me. I may be "nuts upstairs" but there's not need to tell everyone who doesn't already know it! lol Though, the comments have ceased since I made an email request, though now I'm just getting 1s. Honestly, what's with people? It's a poem. Read it. Offer a suggestion. Tell me you hate it but tell me why. And that's about it. Why hound someone and continue to harass? It's crazy.

Hello Eve, I am the 1201st member of your fan club. It's not nice to call me that, oh wait, you're talking about someone else. I have seriouly tried to find something of your's the I hate, could only come up with one AV.

I can't believe this thread....
I was lampooning one of these trools with my one shot anonamouse's message "Last Man" and caught greif.
Oh well, I guess I'll never understand.

 

[jthserra]

Re: Re: It all seems a bit ironic

The problem is the definition of "mediocre" varies with the person.
I'll often pick out a poem from someone " new" or someone who I see has a great idea to present and praise it and tell people to read it.
It's the idea and feeling that come across that's important.
Not the form or style or if you can find a rhyme for " apathetic"

We all started out writing things we'd be ashamed to submit today.
I needed positive feedback alot more then than I need it now.


Also part of the " backslapping" as it's called is because many of us here " know" a certain poets style and thus can see what they are doing and saying and see how the use words and images etc.
It's like music...why do you like Stevie Ray and not Muddy Waters...it's all blues right??

it's what hits you and grabs you and, TL, when and if you ever read a piece of poetry and instead of just reading it you " feel" it
you will understand.
to paraphrase a few thousand years of Zen wisdom

" You must empty your cup to taste my tea"

get rid of all your preconcieved notions and read each poem with an open mind

I need coffee

I think you all remember when I was working the Monday new poem reviews and I made a point to comment on every poem posted that day, whether I included it in the poems I mentioned or not. And I think you will agree I did, if fact, abandoned preconceived notions and read each poem with an open mind, I displayed it in the comments I provided for the poems. I went to great lengths to find the strengths, the unique phrasing, or the message in the poem.

And yes, there were poems I felt, those were the ones I went to great lengths to discuss in my reviews for that day. You'll remember that I would often toss in a mention of a poem on someone elses day, a poem that moved me. I mentioned the poem and went to some detail exactly what it did that made me feel it. There were a number of times I first brought attention to a promising poet, one that was perhaps not recognized by anyone else here, and with encouragement and positive criticism I helped them look at their work more critically, and their work improved.

And while yes, you may be singing to the choir here (if you pardon my cliche') that you read each poem with an open mind, I don't think you are treating the poet fairly if you tell them they have done a fantastic job when they clearly haven't.

I think if a poet presents a great idea, but has stumbled on the presentation, why just say, "Hey this poem is wonderful, I love the idea presented," when you can then follow with... "you can make this poem even that much better if you find a rhyme for apathetic, or if you tweak it to fit the form you are working in."

Of couse, this type of response takes more time. I remember taking 45 minutes to an hour in some responses, working out a way to tactfully help someone see a few options they might consider to try to improve a poem. While this level of response could be done in PM, other readers do not get the benefit of the response.

Certainly, each of us here will be drawn to different work, different ideas, and something I find stunning, you might think needs a tweak here or there. If we step back and say, hey, nice poem but... more of us will benefit.


Here at Lit, we have a voting system, a means, of sorts, for feedback. Unfortunately, it is mistakenly taken for a way of systematically ranking one poem against another, and often accolades are given to the higher ranked poems (or stories)... accolades and in some cases here, money. This voting system promotes the "backslapping" and mutual admiration that I complain about. Encouraging promising work and poets is one thing, but telling someone they have written a staggering work of genius in the hopes you will make a friend (a 5 voting friend) is another.


Poets write for many reasons, those that are interested in improving their poetry, I believe, are hindered more than helped when they receive blind, unfounded praise. I think the best gift an aspiring poem can receive is the time another poet offers when they avoid the "best poem ever" comment and says, "Hey, nice poem, but I think you can say it better and here's why."


Okay... I've gone nuts again, it's my OCD kicking in. I'll go count books for a while or perhaps go back to wondering what Ted Kooser has done that I've neglected to do. Well, other than publish poetry and books and stuff.


jim : )

 

[Tathagata]

It all comes down to a matter of opinion.
What you think is great...may mean nothing to me and vice versa.

I in no way feel qualified to suggest anything other than perhaps punctuation or a less clichéd word or two.

as for " staggering works of genius" a phrase, to me, can be genius
Not the whole poem certainly but one phrase can be a truth...Eve had one the other day .

I think to give positive feedback is good, if the person wants help or an opinion I'd prefer to do that through email or PM

If you don't like the poem and you want to publicly leave your reasons why I have no problem with that.
To say it sucks or I don't get it, or calling it rubbish or pretentious isn't helping anyone.

We are all on different levels here..working towards the same goal.

It's like the old gunslinger theory
No matter how good you think you are...there's always someone better.

when someone writes something, even a line, that's better than I would have said it...I tell them.


The way we all see the voting system is different too

I don't consider giving someone a 5 to mean it's a genius work.
To me it means it's the best they could do at this point.
Or that it resonated with me beyond words.
Or simply that it was a great poem.

I give 5's and rave reviews to people in here I don't know and never hear from.
and without sounding cold
I didn't come here to make friends.
I write what I write, take help when it's offered, give help when asked, say what I think, and otherwise don't care too much who gives me a 5 or a 1.

Pardon me if this seems directed at you jim it wasn't meant to be
just some of your comments are ones I've heard before and just wanted to make sure I, at least, was understood.

There are people in here who deserve a 5 on every poem they write.
but again, it's all a matter of opinion.