How long do you spend on a story?

I don't equate the time it takes to write a story to its quality. Not at all. I don't even equate the time it takes to write a story to the amount of work that goes into it. You can have some piece of cheese gathering dust for a year or two that you've put less work into than you have into a three-hour sweat-bath.

I've had things kind of bump along behind the boat for months. Every so often I'll haul it in and kind of look at it and try and decide if I still want to work on it or not. That doesn't mean I've been working on it for months, That means that I haven't been working on it for months.

Then there's work and there's work. Trying to make your prose into something decent to read is one thing. Fixing all your idiotic mistakes is another. One is work, the other is just drudgery. There's a lot of drudgery in writing, but it's something we do for the reader.

I think maybe a more interesting question is how do you know when you're done with something? Some people bang out a story while they're watching Springer and it looks swell to them and they're done. Some people slave over every word.

I myself have never finished anything. Usually I just wear out my patience and feel that it's good enough, or I stop caring and so it's good enough. But I have never ever read anything of mine that I considered truly and finally finished, and I never expect that I will. I doubt that there's a writer who's worth reading who feels a story is as good as it can be. I just can't conceive of feeling that a story is simply beyond improvement. If you think that, it only means that you've reached the end of your talent, not the end of your art.

Knowing when to stop is part of the craft. There seems to be an optimal writing period (talking about real writing: revising, editing) and for me, and if I work on the story for longer than that it starts to get over-ripe, over worked. (That doesn't mean that I ever think it's finished or couldn;t be made better. It does mean I have to walk away from it for a good long time.) I would guess optimal real-work time would come out to something like 2-3 hours/page averaged over all I have done here. That's real keyboard work time, not just drawer time or walking-around-the-clock-thinking-about-it-time.

For people who can just crank it out on a linear foot/hour basis, I can understand your admiration for yourself. I think that some of the most satisfying writing I've ever done is in a white heat, when it just flows. But I've never been able to assemble a plot in a white heat, or proofread in a white heat.

I would suggest that one of the reasons you're able to write so quickly is because you basically don't give much of a shit about the quality of what you've written. I mean, obviously if you did care, you would have taken more time. Isn't thatthe definition of "caring"?

Makes sense to me.


---dr.M.
 
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Story output

The best stuff I've written (the creme de la crap) was essentially written in one go. For some reason, I just sat down and a story appeared. I wrote "Frieda the Cat" that way. I had no real story idea, it just happened. "Frieda" is certainly not great literature, but it was a lot of fun to write.

I seem to do best when I just fly through a story. After it's done, I'm usually sick of it and don't want to do any editing. I'm afraid that shows in the final result, but I honestly don't care. I only write for one person. Moi.
MG
 
dr_mabeuse said:
I would suggest that one of the reasons you're able to write so quickly is because you basically don't give much of a shit about the quality of what you've written. I mean, obviously if you did care, you would have taken more time. Isn't that the definition of "caring"?

Makes sense to me.


---dr.M.

Don't agree in all cases. Some work written very fast is just too good to mess with. It depends on the inspiration at the time.

The classic example is Coleridge's Xanadu. Once the thread was broken he could never complete it.

The difficulty is recognising that what has been written at white heat is good. The same criteria have to be applied as if the work had taken months to complete.

Some work comes from nowhere. As more than one author has said of their work: "Once only God and I knew what I meant. Now only God knows."

Some of my work is written fast almost as if I'm on a trip. When completed I don't recognise the product as mine. I treat it as mine, edit it, correct it, polish it, review and revise it but I still don't recognise it except as something the muses wanted to say through me. It is a weird sensation to write a story I don't accept as mine but it happens. If only I could write the story the muses really want; but they have to work through my limitations.

Og
 
Who, besides Mab., says writers or any artists have to care? Some of the greatest artists (Beethoven, Joyce and Wagner come to mind first) were social monsters, the most self-indulgent egotistical minds imaginable. And I *love* their work.

"Respect" for the reader? Perhaps it's there for some at some basically sentimental or socially influenced level. "The Reader", whatever or whoever that might be is the last thing, if ever, on my mind when I write.

I'm done. Perdita
 
perdita said:
Some of the greatest artists (Beethoven, Joyce and Wagner come to mind first) were social monsters,
Ummm..... Joyce who? Mister Joyce who cuts my hair? Joyce Kilmer? I love her poetry.
MG
 
sirhugs said:
Perdy: I thought you said you were done. :kiss:
Ha ha ha; gotta love a cut-up. Actually I'm never done, just don't like to scare people. ;)
 
Perditia:
Scaring people can be really fun, if done the right way. *evil grin*

*****

Have you ever started out writing a story one way and suddenly it takes on a life of it's own and goes somewhere else? So that when you're finished, it looks nothing like the original idea you had for the story?


Also, Have you actually been writing a story and been able to SEE it happening in your mind. I mean really see it, as if you were watching it on TV or, perhaps, in the same area as it is happening?


BardsLady:rose:
 
BardsLady:

Yes and yes! That's why I can't be bothered thinking about the reader. I'm the reader when I write.

re. scaring people, I try not to do it in public.

*(my most wicked grin, flashing teeth and seething all around, haha)
 
I get so involved in a story that I'm writing, I actually snarl at the bedroom door when people knock. *heh* Sometimes I growl, but not often.

I think I'm becomming a recluse because my stories have me in their tight little grip and wont let me go. But heck, when I have my Mother and her Friends, My Brother, Husband, and room mate all giving me moral support while demanding more stories. I can hardly suddenly decide to quit writing.

I think one of Mecedes Lackey's characters said it best:

From Heralds of the Queen:

Talia: You diddnt give up the Music, tho.

Herald Jadus: Oh No. One does not forsake THAT sweet mistress lightly after one has tasted of her charms.

I think that applies to writing stories as well as making music.

BardsLady:rose:
 
Anything from a night to a month

Seducing Severus (R.I.P.) took about a week per chapter... and thats because I had Canon to check...

((LONG LIVE MARY SUE FICS))
 
I'm with dr_mabeuse here. Having ideas is easy and displacement activities can be prolonged indefinitely. Neither contributes to getting a story down.

I usually write in sessions of half a page to a page, and that's fairly quick, and there'll be three or four of them in a story. It could, ideally, be over in half a day.

Almost always I get stuck. The boundary between bursts is a sudden gear-change from fluency to having no idea how to proceed, and here a delay of several days may well correspond to real thought about how to jump the barrier. It isn't most of the writing that's hard, it's not knowing how to make a scene transition or what their psychologies are at a certain point.

If I do solve this problem and get onto the next burst, it's solved. I rarely do much editing after the first draft is finished: re-reading to find mistakes and add a buff to some of the phrasing.

... If a story gets laid away for a month without further enthusiasm getting me back to it, there's a good chance it'll stay a dead fraction.
 
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I asked a friend for some help with my latest story and she wanted to know a bit more about the later parts in order to help. Unfortunately there are no later parts as yet. I have to write in a linear fashion even though I know where and when the story is going I can't write disconnected peices and join them later.

I think the story grows as I write and writing disparate parts would give a disjointed feeling to the finished product.

Gauche

Still stuck in the next story
 
guilty as charged

My better stuff (more complex and complete plots) took several weeks from frist words to submissions, but I think part of that is my commitment to "mull" time.

It isn't the writing that is time consuming for me, it is the structure and finding the links and transitions. Once I know where I am going, I can figure out how to get there. In this way I am unlike gauche.

:rose: b
 
Re: guilty as charged

bridgetkeeney said:
My better stuff (more complex and complete plots) took several weeks from frist words to submissions, but I think part of that is my commitment to "mull" time.

It isn't the writing that is time consuming for me, it is the structure and finding the links and transitions. Once I know where I am going, I can figure out how to get there. In this way I am unlike gauche.

:rose: b

structure? you mean stories are supposed to have structure? NOW you tell me....:kiss:
 
Re: Re: guilty as charged

sirhugs said:
structure? you mean stories are supposed to have structure? NOW you tell me....:kiss:
Yes, Hugsie. We girls at least don't care for flaccid prose and limp poems.

Perdita
 
Re: Re: Re: guilty as charged

perdita said:
Yes, Hugsie. We girls at least don't care for flaccid prose and limp poems.

Perdita

nothing flaccid in my prose:devil:
 
I wonder if there's a difference in the time taken between people who just want to tell a story and people who are concerned with how it's told as well.

I think I've always spent most of my time on things like looking for the right image, the right expression, the right description, the right words. That's all style stuff, and that's what I consider the "work". I usually work on plot (what plot I might have) while I'm doing something else, walking the dog, in the shower, etc. (I know what you're thinking. Sure, there too. Who doesn't?) I don't think of this as working-on-a-story time.

For me the real work is almost entirely about trying to say something gracefully and saying it well, and I find that very hard. It seems to me that it used to be easier to do, but then, didn't everything? Either I'm getting dumber or my standards are getting higher. Anyhow, that's what takes up most of my time by far.

The important stuff I'm working on lately is almost plotless but involves a lot of depth of meaning, very dreamlike, and it's almost all style, so they're taking longer. It's hard and so I like to keep a stroker going on the side just for relief. These are invariably email stories or vignettes, and I can crank these out pretty fast. Not publishable though. They're kind of like the rag the artist uses to clean his brushes on, if you know what I mean. The rag might be good art itself, but not intentionally so, so you don't frame it and hang it up.


---dr.M.
 
gauchecritic said:
Who the fic is mary sue?
Dear Gauchie,
I asked the same question quite a while back. I was told that "Mary Sue" is the writer inserting himself into the story.

The question nobody answered is, WHY is it called "Mary Sue?"
MG

Dear SirH,
Yeah, yeah. And you have the strength of ten because your heart is pure. I'm in Sacramento right now, and it's 106 degrees. I'd like to see how long you could stand out in the sun wearing your iron underwear.
MG
 
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MathGirl said:
. . . Dear SirH,
Yeah, yeah. And you have the strength of ten because your heart is pure. I'm in Sacramento right now, and it's 106 degrees. I'd like to see how long you could stand out in the sun wearing your iron underwear.
MG

Actually, they were linen diaperish wraps used in case the brave knight might spot during a particularly dangerous passage of arms. :eek:

Over that, a thick layer of felt, as padding, to absorb some of the concussion from the harder blows. :mad:

Next came chain mail, heavy, interwoven metal links to stop the sharp edge of the sword, when/if it got past the shield.

In earlier times, or less advanced areas, the links were fastened to a suit of leather, since it was neither so intricate to make, nor so prodigal with metal links.

Finally the breastplate, gorget, tasset, greaves, cuisse, pauldron, gauntlets, and finally, his helm, and his shield. :(

Of course, one has still not accounted for the offensive weapons, nor the energy required to use them, but I believe you would be safe in saying that any knight so accoutred would be uncomfortably warm, even in 60 degree weather. :rolleyes:
 
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