how to tell if a guy is a sub

[YourCaptor]

3-4 relationships (usually lasting about 4 or 5 months); a few one night stands. the most helpful lover simply used me so hard that I wasn't capable of staying quiet. LOL Men would get wierded out that I got so quiet, and assume I wasn't enjoying myself/climaxing so I'd have to explain it. I basically had to focus attention on expressing myself (at times to the distraction of enjoying myself), to reset my responses.

It may not be *that* big of a deal... the nonchalant "Oh lets go all Pavlovian on him/her! It'll be HWAT!" thing is just a pet peeve of mine.

I wouldn't worry about eliminating it, it be neat.

Plus I think J is in over her head anyway. The ANS is not so easily fucked with.

 

[teknight]

I wouldn't worry about eliminating it, it be neat.

Plus I think J is in over her head anyway. The ANS is not so easily fucked with.

How are you defining "easy"?

 

[Netzach]

It started this morning.
Neither of us (me or my roomie) are comfortable letting him sleep over or have a key, so I had to drag my sorry self out of bed at 6am to let him in. Then I went back to bed.
I awoke an hour later to the smell of fresh coffee and an awesome breakfast. He stood at attention to the side of the room while we ate. It was hard to get used too and kind of stifled conversation, not that there's much conversation at that time of the morning, anyway.
After that we both had to get ready to leave; I had class, my roomie had work. It got a little wonky at this point. He offered to help with showers and stuff, but I'm not ready for him to seem me nekkid, and I take showers anyway, which is pretty self-sufficient.
So, my roomie, 'J', put him to work making our bed and cleaning up around our bedroom.
By the time we left the house, he was cleaning up the kitchen and sorting laundry to take to the laundrymat. I wasn't entirely comfortable leaving him alone in our apartment; the guy's probably a panty-sniffer or something, but hey, as long as he's harmless, right?

I texted J, and she wants to give him a key and a schedule, so when she gets home dinner will be ready. I'm not sure, but we'll see.

All in all, I think it went pretty well for a first day. We're all being pretty open with each other. When I left, I asked how he liked it, and he said he did, but that we were almost being too considerate. It's hard not to be appreciative when the dude is making you breakfast. I need to figure out how to push his buttons, cuz this is a gravy train I don't want to end

I dunno, I think you should give your feelings of misunderstanding some more credence and breathing room.

I am weirded out by people in my apartment and in my stuff, it takes a VERY long time for these kinds of arrangements NOT to be stilted in my experience, and that stiltedness can sometimes take the wind out of your sails a lot. It takes a lot of time and conversation before anyone gets to look at my dirty laundry - literally.

Are either of you really really enjoying this because it sounds to me like you're doing it mostly to see if you can and to see if it's possible. And if that's the case, you should be getting paid by the hour, life is short, and hiring a maid is easy compared to a million strange breakfasts laden with hopes and expectations on one side and confusion on the other. If this doesn't resonate for you, it never will - but if it resonates without exactly making sense to you, that's OK. You'll do better talking to this guy directly than treating him like furniture even if that's what he thinks he wants, for now anyway. When it makes sense to you THEN it will flow easily and it may look different than you think it's supposed to on paper.

J sounds like she's got a new project that's going to fizzle quickly, whereas you sound like you have some intrigue and enough curiosity to actually develop something sustainable, provided you can go at your pace.

Just because my idea of a dirty weekend involves a lot of strap on sodomy and giving of orders doesn't mean I don't say "thank you" when handed a glass of champagne, it's normal.

Oh, also - it's possible that he may understand and accept that he's not getting into your pants, but a lot of times those boundaries become very problematic.

 

[cmky]

@cutiemouse:
I appreciate your concern, thanks for sharing them. I had a friend when I was in high school, her bf was grossed out by the fact that she got wet when they had sex. He thought it was dirty. Consequently, it took a long time for her to get over it, and sex was obviously very painful for her.
I say this to show that I understand where your concerns are coming from.
I talked to J about it a little yesterday. I misunderstood what she is trying to get at. She isn't trying to make him sexually aroused by an object, like a shoe or something, but a ritual. She feels that if he is aroused, he will be enjoying himself more, and thus be more pliable. She wants him to enjoy himself, and this ritual is part of that.
She's more appreciative than she lets on. I showed her some of the stuff you guys wrote and she said that she would make an effort to give him more positive reinforcement.

@Netzach:
Well, too late He's already seen my dirty laundry!
Things are moving a little fast for me, but nothing has happened to make me feel uncomfortable. He seems to appreciate my boundaries, and is respectful always but especially when I tell him no.
I am confused by his motivations. He has been pretty consistent in stating what he wants. Since he's been so faithful in delivering what I want, I've tried to treat him exactly the way he describes, at least in principle.
I don't think he's gotten exactly what he fantasized about. He wants to be used as a sex slave, even though he hasn't said it, I know he does. But he also wants to be a slave in general. When I asked about the difference between a sub and a slave, he said he was a slave. He said a sub uses a dom to get what they want. A slave lives to serve his master. I don't know if that's right, but that's what he said.

This morning in bed, J and I were talking a little about it. She wants to make him a 'human dildo' eventually. I'm a lot more conservative than she is. She's the only girl I have ever been with, and I can count the guys on one hand and have fingers to spare. She's more of an adventurer, even now.
She knows this, and is trying to coax me into it gently. Of course, she could start using him that way right now and I wouldn't care, it'd be kinda kinky to watch, but I'm a long way from that myself.

I'll try to post again later.
I gotta tell you about my favorite tipper, who I've nicknamed 'c-note'
He has an awesome car, and late last night/early morning, I got to drive it. It got me so excited I actually, well, I'll save that for later...

 

[CutieMouse]

When I asked about the difference between a sub and a slave, he said he was a slave. He said a sub uses a dom to get what they want. A slave lives to serve his master. I don't know if that's right, but that's what he said.

Well, that's one way of looking at it.

And he's welcome to that opinion of submission vs. slavery, but when you peel away all the layers and pretentiousness and mythology of modern slavery... he's still getting what he wants out of this arrangement, or else he wouldn't be doing it.

 

[Netzach]

Well, that's one way of looking at it.

And he's welcome to that opinion of submission vs. slavery, but when you peel away all the layers and pretentiousness and mythology of modern slavery... he's still getting what he wants out of this arrangement, or else he wouldn't be doing it.

Yes that.

If he was truly just a prop and a means to get you dishes done this conversation would not even be happening, no one would be making strategies.

 

[cmky]

he's still getting what he wants out of this arrangement, or else he wouldn't be doing it.

How true.
I got home from school about an hour ago. J wasn't home, and won't be for another hour or so, and I'm in something of a mood.
I'd texted M and told him to meet me there. Maybe I felt the need to re-assert my authority - J has been the dominant one lately - I dunno, but when he got there, I sat on the couch and made him strip down, and just stand there, buck-naked. Stand there, hands at his side, head down.
I wanted to see how he'd react to that long, awkward silence, to me just sitting there.
He got hard.
I won't lie and say that I was totally disinterested, but I wasn't aroused by the naked man in my living room as much as the fact that I had control. I'm not that vocal with J, and I like it that way. But with M, its different.
So I had him drop to his knees and jerk-off. I watched, but again, not because I was all that turned on, but mostly out of curiosity. Though by the end I was pretty strongly aroused. I've never watched a man masturbate. I wouldn't let him look at me, he tried and a told him to look at the floor. Don't know why, it seemed like the right thing to do.
After he was done I made him kiss my foot as a sign of submission, then get the swiffers and clean up the mess on my hardwood floor.
I actually entertained the thought of making him go down on me, but pretty quickly rejected it. I'm nowhere close to ready for that.

Now he's cooking dinner and I'm horny and a little cranky. When J gets home I'm kicking his ass out and taking care of business.

no one would be making strategies.

I'm sorry, I'm a little dense. You gotta be straightforward with me

 

[Stella_Omega]

cmky, would you turn on your PMs-- at least, long enough for me to give you some thoughts just the once? (nothing bad, I promise)

 

[cmky]

will do...

 

[cmky]

Busy, busy day.
So much going on right now, but if I posted it, I'd be in danger of hijacking my own thread!
Hint: J wore me out. She is exhausting, in a very good way.
Oh, and I think M went home a happy man. Horny, but happy.

 

[YourCaptor]

How are you defining "easy"?

thats funny.

I am confused by his motivations.

Nobody will ever understand subs. Just be thankful and roll with it.

I gotta tell you about my favorite tipper, who I've nicknamed 'c-note'
He has an awesome car, and late last night/early morning, I got to drive it. It got me so excited I actually, well, I'll save that for later...

You know hes playing you. Don't you worry?

 

[Nausea]

Just get him pissed

Lots of alcohol and the true nature will come out. Not sure how'll U'll deal wiv it the morning after though. Convince him it was a dream, or something. Giv him a get out, let him run. If he comes back for more. well bully for U, you've got your little fuck slave haven't U. A win-win situation really. Whatever you do don't force it, a contradiction in terms for a dom, but just be patient, and let him make the mistakes. Well, maybe you need to make a prod or two here or there. He wants it, U just hav 2 wait 4 him to fall like putty into your hands.

 

[cmky]

You know hes playing you. Don't you worry?

NO! He understands me! He listens!! C'mon

I think he's a nice guy with lots of money to throw around. He's also a little ADD and tends to get really anxious around certain people. Like these mysterious Eastern European dudes he sometimes comes in with and make me feel naked in ways that aren't even remotely sexy. I like to pretend that they are in the mob, which might not be that far from the truth. Hell, they look like they're from the mob.

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago he comes in with three of these guys and shoves a couple of c-notes in my hand when I'm punching his drinks into the computer, he even gives me an apologetic heads-up about the short, fat one who will definitely grab-ass if I get too close. (Which he totally did, bastard.)

Saturday he comes in alone. I can always tell the really good tippers by the whiskey they order. So over the course of the conversation he lets on that he has one of these: http://www.topgear.com/uk/aston-martin/db9, and I got to frickin drive it!

Yeah, he might have thought he was getting some tail after, but damn. Did I mention it has six gears? SIX. So once I get it on the highway, he's all like 'take it slow, it takes time to get used to the power, blah blah blah.' I punch the pedal and just like that I'm doing 140.

*sigh* The job does have its perks.

Did I mention that he speaks with an English accent? Yummy.

 

[YourCaptor]

NO! He understands me! He listens!! C'mon

I think he's a nice guy with lots of money to throw around. He's also a little ADD and tends to get really anxious around certain people. Like these mysterious Eastern European dudes he sometimes comes in with and make me feel naked in ways that aren't even remotely sexy. I like to pretend that they are in the mob, which might not be that far from the truth. Hell, they look like they're from the mob.

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago he comes in with three of these guys and shoves a couple of c-notes in my hand when I'm punching his drinks into the computer, he even gives me an apologetic heads-up about the short, fat one who will definitely grab-ass if I get too close. (Which he totally did, bastard.)

Saturday he comes in alone. I can always tell the really good tippers by the whiskey they order. So over the course of the conversation he lets on that he has one of these: http://www.topgear.com/uk/aston-martin/db9, and I got to frickin drive it!

Yeah, he might have thought he was getting some tail after, but damn. Did I mention it has six gears? SIX. So once I get it on the highway, he's all like 'take it slow, it takes time to get used to the power, blah blah blah.' I punch the pedal and just like that I'm doing 140.

*sigh* The job does have its perks.

Did I mention that he speaks with an English accent? Yummy.

If you had scratched it you'd be garnished for the next 40 years, or raped, all depends.

 

[Que]

cmky, would you turn on your PMs-- at least, long enough for me to give you some thoughts just the once? (nothing bad, I promise)

I SO wanna be a fly on the wall for something so interesting that STELLA doesnt want to discuss in public? unfathomable! (I would have said "Inconceivable!" but Inigo "does not think that the word means what I think it means.")

 

[Stella_Omega]

I SO wanna be a fly on the wall for something so interesting that STELLA doesnt want to discuss in public? unfathomable! (I would have said "Inconceivable!" but Inigo "does not think that the word means what I think it means.")

I just wanted to tell her that this thread is one of the most interesting and educational ones on the forum at this time, but I didn't want to hijack the thread

And also, ask her if she wanted to blog about the whole journey...

 

[ruby_my_dear]

I just wanted to tell her that this thread is one of the most interesting and educational ones on the forum at this time, but I didn't want to hijack the thread

And also, ask her if she wanted to blog about the whole journey...

Crnky
I have been enjoying the candid dialogue too and I hope you plan to keep posting.
ruby

 

[teknight]

I just wanted to tell her that this thread is one of the most interesting and educational ones on the forum at this time, but I didn't want to hijack the thread

And also, ask her if she wanted to blog about the whole journey...

Vlog it!

 

[stevert36]

Did she move all updates to a blog that I don't know about??? I've looked forward each day to hearing about this unique situation! lol

 

[cmky]

Hey guys,

Sorry I've been away for so long.
I've been sooo busy: work, school, weird-ass relationships. You know...

I'll update in full later, but things are still progressing with M (that's what I was calling him, right?). We did the two week contract thing, and he wanted more. J was cool with it, and so we extended it for another two months while we work out some of the details.
He's really become more of J's slave than mine. I'm sure some of you aren't surprised at all to read that. We've started to include him in our intimate moments, at least a little. She really has made him a human dildo.

I'm still not entirely comfortable having sex with him, even though I have tried it a couple of times. It takes me a long time to get comfortable enough to come with someone, which is really crazy b/c I sometimes very orgasmic in other situations (read: spontaneously orgasmic).

J would have sex with him every day if she had the time, and still have energy left over to wear me out as well. The girl is a beast.

Oh, and last but certainly not least, is my sugar daddy (kidding). Okay, so he is ridiculously rich, and I totally know this isn't going anywhere serious, but damn, the dude knows how to have a good time. And he takes treating a girl like a lady to a heretofore unknown level for me.

So, I hope you except my apologies for dropping off.
Peace!

 

[YourCaptor]

Hey guys,

Sorry I've been away for so long.
I've been sooo busy: work, school, weird-ass relationships. You know...

I'll update in full later, but things are still progressing with M (that's what I was calling him, right?). We did the two week contract thing, and he wanted more. J was cool with it, and so we extended it for another two months while we work out some of the details.
He's really become more of J's slave than mine. I'm sure some of you aren't surprised at all to read that. We've started to include him in our intimate moments, at least a little. She really has made him a human dildo.

I'm still not entirely comfortable having sex with him, even though I have tried it a couple of times. It takes me a long time to get comfortable enough to come with someone, which is really crazy b/c I sometimes very orgasmic in other situations (read: spontaneously orgasmic).

J would have sex with him every day if she had the time, and still have energy left over to wear me out as well. The girl is a beast.

Oh, and last but certainly not least, is my sugar daddy (kidding). Okay, so he is ridiculously rich, and I totally know this isn't going anywhere serious, but damn, the dude knows how to have a good time. And he takes treating a girl like a lady to a heretofore unknown level for me.

So, I hope you except my apologies for dropping off.
Peace!

You could try and whore him out, make some money.

 

[stevert36]

Hey guys,

Sorry I've been away for so long.
I've been sooo busy: work, school, weird-ass relationships. You know...

I'll update in full later, but things are still progressing with M (that's what I was calling him, right?). We did the two week contract thing, and he wanted more. J was cool with it, and so we extended it for another two months while we work out some of the details.
He's really become more of J's slave than mine. I'm sure some of you aren't surprised at all to read that. We've started to include him in our intimate moments, at least a little. She really has made him a human dildo.

I'm still not entirely comfortable having sex with him, even though I have tried it a couple of times. It takes me a long time to get comfortable enough to come with someone, which is really crazy b/c I sometimes very orgasmic in other situations (read: spontaneously orgasmic).

J would have sex with him every day if she had the time, and still have energy left over to wear me out as well. The girl is a beast.

Oh, and last but certainly not least, is my sugar daddy (kidding). Okay, so he is ridiculously rich, and I totally know this isn't going anywhere serious, but damn, the dude knows how to have a good time. And he takes treating a girl like a lady to a heretofore unknown level for me.

So, I hope you except my apologies for dropping off.
Peace!

How exactly is he being used as a human dildo? Is he allowed to cum?

 

[cmky]

How exactly is he being used as a human dildo? Is he allowed to cum?

No. Okay, he is, but not while he's with us. Sometimes we let him masturbate in front of us (I like to watch guys jerk-off, who knew!?), but both J and I have this, hrmm, I don't really know how to describe it.
It's kinda like a dissociative thing, if that's the right word. So, when J goes down on me, I want to see her, right? Run my fingers through her hair, look at her when I come, squeeze her hand, all that. Even though we aren't romantic in any sense otherwise, it's very close and tender, even when it's fast and rough.
When M does it, both to me and J, it's just the opposite. We don't even think about him, look at him or acknowledge him in any way. It's happened twice, both times I was covered so that I couldn't see my bottom half. When he went down on J, she was watching TV.
Sex is the same way. He wears a condom, of course, but also we had him buy a sheet and cut a hole in it, sort of like, um (running off to check urban dictionary), oh, a glory hole.
I haven't come yet from any of this, but it feels really good, obviously.
This idea was the brainchild of M & J, they both are really into it, and I like to observe more than participate, though the participation is good, J gets me where I need to be, and M is just for fooling around.

I don't know if this is normal for sub/dom relationships or not.

There is another idea J wants to try, again with the pavlovian thing, but I'll go into that in another post. gnite!

 

[stevert36]

No. Okay, he is, but not while he's with us. Sometimes we let him masturbate in front of us (I like to watch guys jerk-off, who knew!?), but both J and I have this, hrmm, I don't really know how to describe it.
It's kinda like a dissociative thing, if that's the right word. So, when J goes down on me, I want to see her, right? Run my fingers through her hair, look at her when I come, squeeze her hand, all that. Even though we aren't romantic in any sense otherwise, it's very close and tender, even when it's fast and rough.
When M does it, both to me and J, it's just the opposite. We don't even think about him, look at him or acknowledge him in any way. It's happened twice, both times I was covered so that I couldn't see my bottom half. When he went down on J, she was watching TV.
Sex is the same way. He wears a condom, of course, but also we had him buy a sheet and cut a hole in it, sort of like, um (running off to check urban dictionary), oh, a glory hole.
I haven't come yet from any of this, but it feels really good, obviously.
This idea was the brainchild of M & J, they both are really into it, and I like to observe more than participate, though the participation is good, J gets me where I need to be, and M is just for fooling around.

I don't know if this is normal for sub/dom relationships or not.

There is another idea J wants to try, again with the pavlovian thing, but I'll go into that in another post. gnite!

That sounds like a great idea. (Especially the glory hole!) I can't wait to continue hearing about your journey into D/s!

 

[BrightlyGo]

Sounds like 'M' is having a great time.