how to tell if a guy is a sub

[Curious_in_Cali]

Hmm...my roomie has something like an ottoman. Calling in an ottoman might imply that it is a nice piece of furniture, tho, when we're actually college kids. Everything we have is either from the thrift store or yard sales.

Oh, and we're not in LA....opposite side of the country. FLA!


This morning was a little better. He was more just a part of the landscape than a fellow human, which sounds bad, but I really think that's what he wants. Today I had him kneel by the breakfast table instead of stand in the corner, when I ordered him to get me some ketchup, I noticed he had a hard-on when he stood up. I'm taking that as a good sign that he likes what we're doing. Cuz you guys are right, I want him to be satisfied cuz he's treating us...well, like queens.

This evening he is going to cook at his house and bring it to us. He's doing something with his friends, so it is going to be a short night, but J wants to do something to establish our dominance more. Nothing sexual, but something that involves him taking his clothes off and feeling exposed.

Any suggestions?

I might be wrong, but I think the nudge from YC was about him BEING the ottoman.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think a little protocol would be a great thing for you guys. YOu want him to have positions to fall into at certain times, ways to address you guys. Ask him if he knows about protocol.

I love this book:
http://rubelpresents.com/wordpress/?page_id=116
but if you can't spend money, there are a lot of webites-- of course! Google for "BDSM Protocol" but be prepared to go through a lot of pages that are useless to you.
http://www.peter-masters.com/wiki/index.php/Protocol

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Any suggestions?

Give him a pair of panties to wear? Or dress? Or skimpy clothing? Or French maids outfit?

Like YC might have been implying, use him as a foot rest or laptop stand.

Does he have to ask permission before using the bathroom? Hell, you could even make him have to ask when you're not around too. Like having to send a text to you or J asking for permission.

Maybe whenever you or J enter the room, he must drop to his knees or even to all fours. Make him crawl from room to room instead of walking. His eyes must be down at all times. Have him refer to you by whatever you want. Even make him refer to himself as "this slave" or "your slave" or whatever you want. Stuff like that.

Have fun!

 

[teknight]

I might be wrong, but I think the nudge from YC was about him BEING the ottoman.

He'd have to get a Turkish citizenship? Now that's a bit extreme, don't you think?

(to the OP- sorry for not contributing anything useful)

 

[midwestyankee]

He'd have to get a Turkish citizenship? Now that's a bit extreme, don't you think?

(to the OP- sorry for not contributing anything useful)

Almost as challenging as becoming a chesterfield, don't you think?

 

[teknight]

Almost as challenging as becoming a chesterfield, don't you think?

My friend used to live on Chesterfield... so, it'd be a stretch, yes.

 

[midwestyankee]

My friend used to live on Chesterfield... so, it'd be a stretch, yes.

Would it be any easier to become one of these?

@cmky, you have a great opportunity here to identify things that please you that your new slave can do for you. Enjoy!

 

[cmky]

Yeah, he might dig it if we sat on him bare-ass or something. That's a good idea as a 'reward', if you think me putting my ass on him is a reward.

I talked it over with J, she definitely wants him naked, I think she's more into the humiliation than I am, but then, she can be something of a man-hater, so I think he's in for some abuse.

I'm thinking about making him wear some kind of speedo or jock strap, cuz I don't really wanna see that. I might make him get his chest and/or back (ew) waxed, or do you think that is taking it too far for what is basically a two week 'contract'?

As far as name, I like 'baroness', just because. Pretentious, I know, but I can't help myself, and hey, it's my fantasy.
I think J said 'bitchqueen' was her title.

So, naked, then speedo, waxed, sit on him, clean my bathroom on hands and knees, hmm...that's good for now.

Updates coming later!!!

 

[YourCaptor]

Yeah, he might dig it if we sat on him bare-ass or something. That's a good idea as a 'reward', if you think me putting my ass on him is a reward.

I talked it over with J, she definitely wants him naked, I think she's more into the humiliation than I am, but then, she can be something of a man-hater, so I think he's in for some abuse.

I'm thinking about making him wear some kind of speedo or jock strap, cuz I don't really wanna see that. I might make him get his chest and/or back (ew) waxed, or do you think that is taking it too far for what is basically a two week 'contract'?

As far as name, I like 'baroness', just because. Pretentious, I know, but I can't help myself, and hey, it's my fantasy.
I think J said 'bitchqueen' was her title.

So, naked, then speedo, waxed, sit on him, clean my bathroom on hands and knees, hmm...that's good for now.

Updates coming later!!!

Is J your alter ego?

 

[cmky]

Is J your alter ego

Ha! No, but she might as well be. J is my best friend, we've known each other since we were thirteen. She helped me through the loss of my father, I helped her through a divorce and a string of horrific guy-related experiences. Bad, bad history.
We are now in our freshman year of college.
We've also *known* each other since we were fifteen.
Needless to say, our relationship is a bit difficult to explain.

So, update. My shift is about to kick into high gear, so I only have a few minutes.

We've made some headway with the guy (hmm..we'll call him 'M').
Last nite me and J tossed around some ideas about him...she's taking this much more seriously than I am.
So...have you guys ever seen A Clockwork Orange? Well, she wants to do something similar, just not quite as severe. As you might be guessing, she's the one who wants to be a psychology major. I'm a dummy compared to her.

Anyway, like in the movie, she wants to play a mind association game. Specifically, she wants to make him sexually attracted to a non-sexual part of our body, or a smell, or both. It's kinda gross, but she wants to make him masturbate while kissing our feet, smelling our socks, or something similar, so that when he does it, he instantly becomes aroused and will be easier to control.

She basically wants the poor guy to be aroused by a flip-flop.

She is big into domination. J thinks this will only take a few weeks if we keep at it. She actually compared it to house-breaking a dog. yes, men and dogs are about on the same level with her. Like I said...bad history.

Anyway, I figured if stuff like that happens out here in the really-real world, the pervs at Literotica could tell me all about it.

Really looking forward to reading the responses for this one.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Consensuality is pretty important to the BDSM crowd.

"Do no damage" is a prime directive.

So make sure he understands what she plans to do. (He might absolutely love it! I think I would, in some fantasy world-- with the proviso that the training would be very particular. Not any flip-flop, but only pink ones. )

Also, taking a reasonably functional human being and training the function out of him-- that leaves you responsible in very real ways for his well-being. You had better think about that before you get into playing psych games on someone without their understanding.

Another thought, if this matters to you-- he wanted to be YOUR slave, not hers.

I would not, if I were him, hand myself over to someone who had issues with me being a man-- anymore than I will ever hand myself over to someone who doesn't respect my female body. Because that's just not going to turn into happy sexy fun teims.

 

[Que]

Almost as challenging as becoming a chesterfield, don't you think?

or a davenport.

 

[stevert36]

This thread is quickly becoming one of my faves...

 

[teknight]

This thread is quickly becoming one of my faves...

You like davenports, huh?

 

[DVS]

You like davenports, huh?

I do. I once had a VERY hot girlfriend with the last name of Davenport. Long, straight red hair and a hot, kinky lust to go with it.

Her sister was kinky, too. She and I worked at the same place for about 10 years. She, another girl and I would spend "lunch" across the street, in their apartment. I didn't eat a lot (of food) during those lunches. Fun times. Because that sister was married, she introduced me to Ms. Davenport.

But, there was a strange turn of events in that family. Their dad (an MD) died unexpectedly, then not long after that, her brother died in an apartment fire, putting everyone in the family into a depression.

A couple of years later, her mother remarried and everything seemed to be getting better. But I soon found out that her new step father had a son (he looked kind of creepy with shifty eyes, like someone who has a secret). Her mother and new step father proceeded to almost force her to marry the son. Yes, I said MARRY! Her mother thought it would be very nice for her daughter to marry her STEP BROTHER!

Well, I knew I was quickly out of the picture, as far as the parents were concerned, so I said my good-byes. I saw her a few years later, but didn't get to talk to her. I thought to myself "at least her step brother/husband hasn't killed her, yet".

She's still one of my all time favorites, as far as sex goes. Also, she was the city police commissioner's private secretary, so I could get my traffic tickets fixed! A nice perk to have in a girlfriend.

Oh, sorry for rambling. It's just one of my triggers...ummm, davenport!!

 

[YourCaptor]

Ha! No, but she might as well be. J is my best friend, we've known each other since we were thirteen. She helped me through the loss of my father, I helped her through a divorce and a string of horrific guy-related experiences. Bad, bad history.
We are now in our freshman year of college.
We've also *known* each other since we were fifteen.
Needless to say, our relationship is a bit difficult to explain.

So, update. My shift is about to kick into high gear, so I only have a few minutes.

We've made some headway with the guy (hmm..we'll call him 'M').
Last nite me and J tossed around some ideas about him...she's taking this much more seriously than I am.
So...have you guys ever seen A Clockwork Orange? Well, she wants to do something similar, just not quite as severe. As you might be guessing, she's the one who wants to be a psychology major. I'm a dummy compared to her.

Anyway, like in the movie, she wants to play a mind association game. Specifically, she wants to make him sexually attracted to a non-sexual part of our body, or a smell, or both. It's kinda gross, but she wants to make him masturbate while kissing our feet, smelling our socks, or something similar, so that when he does it, he instantly becomes aroused and will be easier to control.

She basically wants the poor guy to be aroused by a flip-flop.

She is big into domination. J thinks this will only take a few weeks if we keep at it. She actually compared it to house-breaking a dog. yes, men and dogs are about on the same level with her. Like I said...bad history.

Anyway, I figured if stuff like that happens out here in the really-real world, the pervs at Literotica could tell me all about it.

Really looking forward to reading the responses for this one.

What she gonna do, blow him while he fondles a flip flop?

You should pick something funny to condition. Like ACDC - big balls

 

[kiwi_submissive]

What she gonna do, blow him while he fondles a flip flop?

You should pick something funny to condition. Like ACDC - big balls

Got you by the balls might be more appropriate

 

[FurryFury]

I'd just talk with him about the dynamic, say you saw a movie, read a book about it or something, and see where the convo goes.

I posted this over on fetish and sexuality, and someone suggested that I post over here too. So, here it is.

Here's the short version:
I've been hanging out with a guy that is a few years older than me, and I'm beginning to suspect that he is a submissive or whatev.
At least he definitely has tendencies. You know the type, very eager to please, not sexually, cuz we haven't gone there, just every day stuff; getting me a drink, something to eat, making sure I'm comfortable, generally just waiting on me hand and foot while I'm at his place.

So the question I have is if there is any little, um, test (for lack of a better word) that will let me know if this guy is the real deal or is just really nice. I hope this makes some kind of sense.

I'll provide more details if ya need 'em. Any direction you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[cmky]

The flip-flop thing was a joke fellas. Sorry. I have a weird sense of humor and it doesn't always come out right on forums and stuff.

Okay, so, first. J wants to go all Pavlovian on him. I'm skeptical, but willing to go along, and he has agreed to it. He pretty much agrees to anything we suggest at this point, which frankly scares me.

I think the idea is that she wants to see how much she can control when he is and is not aroused. So, when we walk into the room, he drops to his knees. He has to ask permission to do anything, like go to the bathroom, someone here suggested that and J totally went for it, and asking permission involves prostrating himself in front of us and so on. At this point, she wants to associate submitting to us with 'erection'. She wants it to be involuntary. Her logic seems sound: if he is horny, he will be more pliable.

I don't know if this is abuse or not. He seems to like it, is eager to do it, but that is not saying much.

Lemme explain.

I know I'm pretty. I don't think it's conceited to say that. I was lucky enough to be born with good skin, straight hair, perky tits and so on. I also work my ass off to keep it that way. I count calories. I watch what I eat. I exercise, I friggin do 300 crunches a day.
But J is gorgeous. She is the type of girl guys will do anything for. I can't even begin to think of a metaphor that describes how sexy she is, and she doesn't even try. And she is a succubus. I'm not kidding. I've watched her destroy men. She's not evil, they just get sucked it her world and burn up. They can't handle it when she's done with them, and when she's done, she is done. The only real constants in her life are me and her cat.

I've told M this, but it won't matter. Moth to the flame and all that.

Speaking of M, I learned a lot about him last night. I'm a cocktail waitress. I work three nights and make two weeks worth of money, sometimes more, but at the end of the night, my back and feet are KILLING ME. No, 'cocktail waitress' is not another word for stripper.
Last night he calls me at the end of my shift and asks if I need anything. It's almost 3am.
I say no, and he says he has some red wine and cheese. How can I say no to that?
Thirty minutes later he is giving me a back massage. After that I get to sip wine and nibble on cheese while he rubs my calves and feet. I swear it was better than sex.
So I ask him what the deal is. I treat him like a maid, I mean, I made him rearrange my sock drawer just because I couldn't think of anything else for him to do. J treats him like a doormat, which he likes even more than the maid role. I mean, sure, the guy isn't going to knock anyone over with his looks, but that has never mattered all that much, not even to girls like my roomie. He's got a great job, some kind of head suit at an engineering firm, he makes bank. Owns his house, which is a killer pad. I don't get it.
After the wine and the rub down he asks if I need anything else. At this point I'd give him a bj just out of sheer gratitude (I wouldn't, It's a joke, guys.), but all he wants to do is sleep on the floor in our bedroom.
So he did.

I don't understand this at all.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, it is pretty much consensual, since he's said so. And 'erection' is usually the goal for these guys anyway haha

But he needs to show you he has limits. I get the impression that you really don't want to see this guy be ruined by your roommate's malice. You are going to probably have to insist on him setting something-- ask him about money, for instance -- that will probably get him thinking!

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about D/s to be talking to him, or give him books to read. Netzach is one poster that might be better able to give you some input. I'm going to PM her and ask her to step in to this thread, I guess.

 

[cmky]

@stella:
Thanks for all the advice. Just to be clear, J isn't bad, I hope I didn't paint her that way, her limit is much more finite when it comes to men. You know how it is with most girls (I used to be included in this), a guy pushes and pushes, say's he'll call and doesn't, treats you like a lady then stops, says mean things and then regrets it, that sorta stuff.
With most of us, there is a cushion. Guys get a chance to figure out their boundaries. With J, you don't get that luxury. If you say you'll call and don't, don't bother. Ever.
So she won't 'punish' M unless it amuses her. If he pushes her buttons, she isn't the type to slap his hand away, she's the type to break his finger (metaphorically speaking).
I hope that clears things up, if only a little.

Oh, I've been watching some English period films to get in the mood to have a servant. I'm also picking out some outfits that I hope to piece together from thrift store clothes. When I'm done, I'll post them. I've decided to include some hand-kissing in his displays of submissiveness. It's just cool.

I forgot to tell you guys what happened the other day, when we had him strip naked for the first time. It was awesome.

I need to get ready for my shift. I gotta pick something out, and M is in the kitchen, whipping up some den-den.

 

[CutieMouse]

Quick question... this Pavlovian stuff your friend wants to do that she thinks is so interesting? What's her plan for how to UNcondition him when she's done with him? Because at some point the experiment will lose it's thrill, or one [or both] of y'all will get tired of maintaining the dynamic, or he'll start requesting things one/both of you aren't into, or things will simply run their course. What then?

People who are easily "conditioned" for lack of a better word, especially when sex is involved (*raises hand*)... conditioning sticks. I once had a complicated relationship with someone who thought it was hot as hell for me to hold my breath/not make a sound when I climaxed - even gasping was frowned upon. When that situation ended, it took me TWO AND A HALF YEARS (and several lovers) to re-learn how to be my loud, whimpery, talkative, begging and enthusiastic little self in bed; getting there [again] was not an easy process.

If everyone involved wants to ring a bell and get him hard, rock on. But (IMO) there are responsibilities that come with those sorts of games.

 

[teknight]

Quick question... this Pavlovian stuff your friend wants to do that she thinks is so interesting? What's her plan for how to UNcondition him when she's done with him? Because at some point the experiment will lose it's thrill, or one [or both] of y'all will get tired of maintaining the dynamic, or he'll start requesting things one/both of you aren't into, or things will simply run their course. What then?

People who are easily "conditioned" for lack of a better word, especially when sex is involved (*raises hand*)... conditioning sticks. I once had a complicated relationship with someone who thought it was hot as hell for me to hold my breath/not make a sound when I climaxed - even gasping was frowned upon. When that situation ended, it took me TWO AND A HALF YEARS (and several lovers) to re-learn how to be my loud, whimpery, talkative, begging and enthusiastic little self in bed; getting there [again] was not an easy process.

If everyone involved wants to ring a bell and get him hard, rock on. But (IMO) there are responsibilities that come with those sorts of games.

May i ask: How much sex did you have in those 2.5 years? 'cause it's not so much the time frame (it is a factor) but it's also the number of times that the stimulus was presented.

Besides, behavior extinction does happen. What's more, it could be that he gets paired to a specific (as opposed to a generalized) stimulus, such that no all shoes turn him on, just her left green Adidas flip flop...or some such.

You are spot on where the responsibility is concerned.

 

[CutieMouse]

May i ask: How much sex did you have in those 2.5 years? 'cause it's not so much the time frame (it is a factor) but it's also the number of times that the stimulus was presented.

Besides, behavior extinction does happen. What's more, it could be that he gets paired to a specific (as opposed to a generalized) stimulus, such that no all shoes turn him on, just her left green Adidas flip flop...or some such.

You are spot on where the responsibility is concerned.

3-4 relationships (usually lasting about 4 or 5 months); a few one night stands. the most helpful lover simply used me so hard that I wasn't capable of staying quiet. LOL Men would get wierded out that I got so quiet, and assume I wasn't enjoying myself/climaxing so I'd have to explain it. I basically had to focus attention on expressing myself (at times to the distraction of enjoying myself), to reset my responses.

It may not be *that* big of a deal... the nonchalant "Oh lets go all Pavlovian on him/her! It'll be HWAT!" thing is just a pet peeve of mine.

 

[teknight]

3-4 relationships (usually lasting about 4 or 5 months); a few one night stands. Men would get wierded out that I got so quiet, and assume I wasn't enjoying myself/climaxing so I'd have to explain it. I basically had to focus attention on expressing myself (at times to the distraction of enjoying myself), to reset my responses.

It may not be *that* big of a deal... the nonchalant "Oh lets go all Pavlovian on him/her! It'll be HWAT!" thing is just a pet peeve of mine.

*writes down pet peeve. Puts lightbulbs and lube away*
Was that guy trying to spoil you for the rest of us?

Hmm...perhaps the guys getting weirded out served to strengthen your response?

Did the same thing happen when you were getting off on your own?