Hyperchallenge

[Lauren Hynde]

also if you're of the shakespearean bent, you can add a smaller syllable at the end of the ta-DUHs. As in

ta-DUH, ta-DUH, ta-DUH, ta-DUH, ta-DUH-ta

It's what I've been trying to tell everyone since I got here!

It doesn't have anything to do with Shakespear, though. It's the only way to do it in romance languages, and the proper way to count the metric syllables.

Originally posted by Lauren Hynde - 05-11-2002 -

I'm not going to teach you how to count the syllables in a word. You all know that, and if you don't, any good dictionary will help you with that. There are a set of grammatical rules that determine without a doubt the syllabic dividing of any word, that include diphthong analysis and consecutive vowels in hiatus. There is a difference, however, between the grammatical measurement of words, and the metric measurement of words.

The latter can only be done in the context of a verse, for it refers to the syllables as they are perceived by the listener, i.e. subject to various types of contractions and distensions, expressed graphically (they're, don't) OR NOT.

The most important devices that can be used in order to attain metric regularity are:

Synaeresis: (from Latin synaeresis, Greek sunaíresis, a taking together) The collapsing of two syllables into one: in verse, thou see-est becoming thou seest (pronounced like 'thou ceased') and The Almighty becoming Th'Almighty. This occurs when the first syllable ends and the second begins with a vowel. It is common in everyday usage, as when the last syllables of familiar ('fa-mí-li-ar') are merged in 'famílyer'. In some words, the merger becomes fixed: for example, although in the past righteous had three syllables ('ry-te-ous'), there can now only be two ('ry-chous'). In some kinds of English, a stressed diphthong merges with a following schwa: for example, in varieties of RP sometimes regarded as affected, where flower pot sounds like 'flah pot' and lawn-mower like 'lawn-myrrh'.

and

Diaeresis: (through Latin from Greek diaíresis, division]. Less common, it's the exact opposite of Synaeresis: The forced separation of two consecutive vowels that would otherwise form a diphthong or other type of breaking a determined syllable. For example, the use of the word righteous, intending it to be read as it was in the past, not with two syllables, but three ('ry-te-ous'). This device also comprehends the forcing of a vowel that might otherwise be silent to be sounded (as it naturally occurs in Brontë) or that the second vowel of a pair is to be sounded separately (as in naive).

There are other devices that can and often are used to artificially reduce or increase the number of metric syllables of a word, like Crasis (the combination of the vowels of two syllables, esp. at the end of one word and beginning of the next, into one long vowel or diphthong), Apheresis and Apocope, but there's no need to get into them, I think...

Additionally to these devices there is one absolutely fundamental rule in metric syllabic count: in any given verse, and for metric purposes only, you shouldn't ever consider any syllable after the last stressed syllable of the final word, i.e. if you have a 11-syllable verse ending with the word foundation, you drop tion from the count and it stands as a decasyllable.

The reason why this isn't found much in English poetry, is because it's because if you use words with a weak syllable in the end of a rhyming verse, both the strong and the weak syllables will have to rhyme*, and the English language isn't very rich. Those rhymes aren't too frequent.

* e.g.: Symbolic doesn't rhyme with Republic.

 

[perks]

It's what I've been trying to tell everyone since I got here!

sometimes just saying it in comparison to something people can relate to in a simple sentence instead of hidden like a needle in a book of copy and paste helps.

I wasn't bothered at all by her commas. I did mention the rhyme scheme plurality, and gave her points of poetic license since she didn't slip completely into assonance. I think we'll agree to disagree.

It's like saying 5-7-5 is a haiku, when we know it is more than that simplistic rule.

Do you want your poetry to be completely naked, or do you mind a few personal voice touches? I voted for the latter, giving her a bit of room to move, but then I'm not the judge, so maybe in this case, your perspective is a bit better.

 

[fawnie]

That's a great first effort, fawnie. The metre is almost flawless, so now all you have to do is remember to not let it get in the way of poetry.

Here are my technical impressions:


hyperplasmic love

It stings me like a frost, a freeze of years,
so bold it stands, without a need to mend;
it's said that time[,] is now to me a friend,
how long 'til love[,] be lost within my fears?

To say I need[,] is much too strong a word,
but truth be told, my life now feels in vain;
escape relents, I yield my life to pain;
forget the facts, and all the things I've heard.

Forever love, I wish could be deferred--
some things our will can't stop or time sustain;
this is the truth, the facts that walk with me.

- I had a problem with the second verse of this stanza, in the original version you posted, because it felt like the imabic pentameter was getting in the way of the sentence even making sense; also, the added 's' made the rhyme slip to 'less than perfect'. Changing the 'and' on your second version to 'or', both problems are fixed


I hide the hurt, the loss, but grieving stirred--
someday real soon, to count this all as gain,
my chains removed, and walk the earth as free.

- 'Someday real soon'? That's not really what you meant, is it? It will screw up the metre, but in that case, maybe you need to rethink that whole line.


Each night I step outside, your ghost appears.
I search the stars, but still I can't pretend;
my heart's sincere: for you my love won't end.
The moon shines bright, a light to dry my tears.

- Outside is an awkward word to use in an iambic scheme, because it's made of two strong sillables. It can be read with more emphasis on one or the other, but both will still be pretty strong. I don't have much of a problem with it, but just decided to point it out, so that you know that we need to be careful with some of the words we choose.

- 'my heart's sincere, for you my love, no end' - I missed a verb here, a direct reflex of you trying to stick to the metre; I kept reading and thinking you desperately wanted to say 'for you my love knows no end' or 'for you my love will never end'.


When all is said and done, my love will be[,]
true love that walks[,] through all eternity.


- Added (and removed) punctuation galore, so that I could make sense of what I was reading. I hope it was the same sense you were trying to make.


Final result:

hyperplasmic love

It stings me like a frost, a freeze of years,
so bold it stands, without a need to mend;
it's said that time is now to me a friend,
how long 'til love be lost within my fears?

To say I need is much too strong a word,
but truth be told, my life now feels in vain;
escape relents, I yield my life to pain;
forget the facts, and all the things I've heard.

Forever love, I wish could be deferred--
some things our will can't stop or time sustain;
this is the truth, the facts that walk with me.

I hide the hurt, the loss, but grieving stirred--
someday real soon, to count this all as gain,
my chains removed, and walk the earth as free.

Each night I step outside, your ghost appears.
I search the stars, but still I can't pretend;
my heart's sincere: for you my love won't end.
The moon shines bright, a light to dry my tears.

When all is said and done, my love will be
true love that walks through all eternity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



It stings me like a frost, a freeze of years,
so bold it stands, without a need to mend;
it's said that time is now to me a friend,
how long 'til love be lost within my fears?

To say I need is much too strong a word,
but truth be told, my life now feels in vain;
escape relents, I yield my life to pain;
forget the facts, and all the things I've heard.

Forever love, I wish could be deferred--
some things our will can't stop or time sustain;
this is the truth, the facts that walk with me.

I hide the hurt, the loss, but grieving stirred--
someday I hope to count this all as gain,
my chains removed, and walk the earth as free.

Each night beneath the stars, your ghost appears.
I search the sky, but still I can't pretend;
my heart's sincere: for you my love won't end.
The moon shines bright, a light to dry my tears.

When all is said and done, my love will be
true love that walks through all eternity.
~~~~~~~
lauren, could you explain the use of hyphons here, i'm not sure why they are used instead of commas or semi-colons?
is it because what follows is a fragment or thought to continue the previous statement??

and i made some adjustments, i think they get me closer to where i need to be, and resolved a couple of issues.

 

[fawnie]

sometimes just saying it in comparison to something people can relate to in a simple sentence instead of hidden like a needle in a book of copy and paste helps.

I wasn't bothered at all by her commas. I did mention the rhyme scheme plurality, and gave her points of poetic license since she didn't slip completely into assonance. I think we'll agree to disagree.

It's like saying 5-7-5 is a haiku, when we know it is more than that simplistic rule.

Do you want your poetry to be completely naked, or do you mind a few personal voice touches? I voted for the latter, giving her a bit of room to move, but then I'm not the judge, so maybe in this case, your perspective is a bit better.

laymen's terms will work wonders with me. i'm not a bloody scholar, but i do enjoy writing, and despite my lack of certain skills(which i am working on) i do have a writers heart, and things to say through poetry. you're a beautiful writer lauren(no that's not an ass kiss) that alone will get me to pay attention to you..as well as perks, and a dozen others around here.

forgive my ignorance, i'm working on relearning all the stuff i'm wishing i never would have forgot in the 1st place!


i appreciate the help for what it's worth, cheers!

edited to say: now i feel like i need to be anal and edit my posts..

 

[Lauren Hynde]

sometimes just saying it in comparison to something people can relate to in a simple sentence instead of hidden like a needle in a book of copy and paste helps.

I wasn't bothered at all by her commas. I did mention the rhyme scheme plurality, and gave her points of poetic license since she didn't slip completely into assonance. I think we'll agree to disagree.

It's like saying 5-7-5 is a haiku, when we know it is more than that simplistic rule.

Do you want your poetry to be completely naked, or do you mind a few personal voice touches? I voted for the latter, giving her a bit of room to move, but then I'm not the judge, so maybe in this case, your perspective is a bit better.

Perks, chill, dude. I was joking.

I mentioned the metric vs. grammatical syllable count thing once in the two years I've been here, and in response to a specific question made by JUDO in her Love Sonnets thread. It was not hidden in a book of copy and paste.

As for fawnie's hypersonnet, it wouldn't bother me if it was a double-reversed acoustic with an acronym in every line and an upside-down crossed rhyme scheme.

The commas didn't do anything for what was being said and instead got (a little bit) in the way of making the message clear, in my opinion. If you don't share that opinion, fine. It's your prerogative.

Likewise, the rhyme scheme plurality didn't bother me at all, but the fact remains that that line didn't make a great deal of sense anyway:

some things our will can't stop and time sustains

Time sustains what? Sustain is a transitive verb. You may want to say that in poetry grammatical rules don't apply, but was there anything gained by not applying them in this case?

some things our will can't stop or time sustain, on the other hand, will not only make the message clearer and more correct, but it will have the added advantage of a more perfect rhyme.

I'm not the judge here. I gave her my honest opinion on what I thought it worked and didn't. I'm all for personal voice and bending of the rules, but only when poetry gains. If you colour outside the lines simply because your hand slipped, it isn't artistic license.

Anyway. My thoughts. They have no interference with your thoughts, or anyone else's. Fawnie asked, so I answered, the same way you did. She'll choose what she wants from either or both. It's all the same to me.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

lauren, could you explain the use of hyphons here, i'm not sure why they are used instead of commas or semi-colons?
is it because what follows is a fragment or thought to continue the previous statement?

In both places where I used the long dash, my impression was that the line itself (not the one that followed) was a fragment or unfinished thought.

I hide the hurt, the loss, but grieving stirred-- isn't a clear thought, made me think 'but grieving stirred what?' The following line, then, felt to me as an explanation or expansion of that. I could be wrong, but it was the sense it made to me.

I suppose a full stop instead of a long dash would work as well, but because of the fragmentary/unfinished feel of those lines, I would still go with the dash.

 

[The_Fool]

Careful or you will find out if I am into the "s" part of that scene too...

And, what are you talking about Mistah Fool...aren't you the one who insists on writing villanelle after villanelle?

At least sonnets are shorter.

The villanelles are Ange's fault. And they are easier 'cause you figure out two lines, you just wrote a third of the poem....

Besides, just 'cause I write 'em, doesn't mean I like 'em.

(As if I liked anything I wrote.... )

*Wonders if Cat wears leathers like Catwoman does....*



Fooooooooooolish

 

[The_Fool]

I'm trying to channel her.

She'll fly through with her usual flourish and be gone again....

 

[Eleanora Day]

Please do not ask, Amante, if we love.
Darkness is nigh; the moon is lemon pale,
and we embrace in arms of comet trail,
awash in teardrops from the stars above.
Trabe los ojos, ángel. Dése yo.
Empuje el dolor dentro de mí.
I am your mouth. You are my sea.
We are primordial in mingled flow.
Susurro a mí; let all our secrets go
into tides, mi dulce, where we are free
to float enrapt in moan and sigh. The night
unfolds its depths in lips, in languor slow.
You make your limbs enfold me as a tree
clings to the midnight Sun, drinking its light.
We soar free together, enjoined like dove
to wing. We cry one song, our voices sail
to safer harbor, past where we might fail
against the crags, heedless strike and shove
of circumstance. Querida, cast off fright.
Don't call it love, Amante, call it right.

 

[perks]

Perks, chill, dude. I was joking.

I mentioned the metric vs. grammatical syllable count thing once in the two years I've been here, and in response to a specific question made by JUDO in her Love Sonnets thread. It was not hidden in a book of copy and paste.

As for fawnie's hypersonnet, it wouldn't bother me if it was a double-reversed acoustic with an acronym in every line and an upside-down crossed rhyme scheme.

The commas didn't do anything for what was being said and instead got (a little bit) in the way of making the message clear, in my opinion. If you don't share that opinion, fine. It's your prerogative.

Likewise, the rhyme scheme plurality didn't bother me at all, but the fact remains that that line didn't make a great deal of sense anyway:

some things our will can't stop and time sustains

Time sustains what? Sustain is a transitive verb. You may want to say that in poetry grammatical rules don't apply, but was there anything gained by not applying them in this case?

some things our will can't stop or time sustain, on the other hand, will not only make the message clearer and more correct, but it will have the added advantage of a more perfect rhyme.

I'm not the judge here. I gave her my honest opinion on what I thought it worked and didn't. I'm all for personal voice and bending of the rules, but only when poetry gains. If you colour outside the lines simply because your hand slipped, it isn't artistic license.

Anyway. My thoughts. They have no interference with your thoughts, or anyone else's. Fawnie asked, so I answered, the same way you did. She'll choose what she wants from either or both. It's all the same to me.

dude, I wasn't picking a fight with you, I was just stating my opinions too, so I don't know what I'm supposed to "chill" about. You could have told me all of what you told me, without the "chill" and I would have taken it as a continuation of the discussion, but now it feels defensive, like I antagonized you, which wasn't my intent in any way shape or form. When I said it is easier to read a simple statement than find it in a whole thing of copy and paste, it is. You have great info all of it, and I was just trying to explain why if you'd said it before it got through when I said it. And I said you were the judge, because it was your STC not because you're overly judgemental, or that I didn't agree with you. The only part that I didn't agree with was the commas, and I too feel it's ok not to agree about them, that's why we all have brains and don't share one. I just talked about them, because people didn't see my editing on the thread, because I sent them to her in PM, and was explaining my point of view and perspective.

As for slipping and going outside the lines when you don't mean to not counting as artistic license, I'd have to agree, but I'd most definitely count it as art. And the plurality of a rhyming word is still workable... but of course, that's my opinion. And, I'll say again, it is your STC challenge and if you say it doesn't count as following your rules for such a challenge then she should listen to you instead of me.

I'm not fighting with you, dude. If I wanted to start something I would, as you and I both know, and it wouldn't be woven around someone else's poetry.

 

[fawnie]

wimping out...

i'm going to back out ..i'm a wimp!!

when i don't need so much assistance with grammer and other stuff i'll take it on. i think this is a bit over my head.

and i'm really starting to feel like a schmuck


i did appreciate both of you offering to help..i think i even learned a thing or two.

cheers!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

dude, I wasn't picking a fight with you, I was just stating my opinions too, so I don't know what I'm supposed to "chill" about. You could have told me all of what you told me, without the "chill" and I would have taken it as a continuation of the discussion, but now it feels defensive, like I antagonized you, which wasn't my intent in any way shape or form.

Cool, let's just forget about it. We're too much alike.

Just for the record, I don't think my opinion on this should be worth more than anyone else's to anyone but me. I just happened to start the thread. English isn't even my language...

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Re: wimping out...

i'm going to back out

No you're not. You wrote a great poem already. I told you before: no way of backing out now.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Please do not ask, Amante, if we love.

That is so good it's not even funny.

 

[Eleanora Day]

That is so good it's not even funny.

gracias, mi dulce.

 

[doormouse]

Mine'll suck, but I'll give it a go too.

;-)

I'm taking Hyper-ventilating

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Like fawnie, I think I've got the scheme and iambic bouncing right, but I'd need a second opinion from the gurus of the form...

hyperpyrexia

again I let the fire lick my face
again and over, taste that terror light
to dance across what sulphur stains ignite
as sense surrenders, fall to this embrace

a struggling but domesticated brain
run high on holy endorphines and heat
while razor rape is mocking my defeat
and torture tastes like kisses and cocaine

I turn the lever, peak the spikes of pain
but once again, an effort incomplete
to trigger yet another quantum leap

again I pray for bubbles in a vein
a final trojan horse to still the beat
to rinse this heart or let me fall asleep

I scour the void in pandemonic pace
a panic point, a pressure spinning sprite
ignited blood in teasing tickle blight
submerging stalemate sweet in purple haze

so please release this vice and cut me deep
restore my neural hurt and let me weep

***

It's a wonderful poem and the form is tight! One hardly notices it. I don't think there's a place I could point to and say 'he chose this word because of the meter or rhyme'. Very good.

My only doubt was in 'pandemonic'. Shouldn't the real word be pan·de·mo·ni·ac? Doesn't matter. It works, and that's what poetic license is for.

 

[Maria2394]

laymen's terms will work wonders with me. i'm not a bloody scholar, but i do enjoy writing, and despite my lack of certain skills(which i am working on) i do have a writers heart, and things to say through poetry. you're a beautiful writer lauren(no that's not an ass kiss) that alone will get me to pay attention to you..as well as perks, and a dozen others around here.

forgive my ignorance, i'm working on relearning all the stuff i'm wishing i never would have forgot in the 1st place!


i appreciate the help for what it's worth, cheers!

edited to say: now i feel like i need to be anal and edit my posts..

Fawnie!!! damn girl, I am sooo impressed, really am. I have been hanging around here about a year longer than you and my mind is a stick in the mud when it comes to these forms, you seem to have grasped so quickly that it makes me wanna pop in here just to see what ya'll are up to..I know I might lurk and learn something!!

cant wait to see your poem posted good work

 

[fawnie]

Fawnie!!! damn girl, I am sooo impressed, really am. I have been hanging around here about a year longer than you and my mind is a stick in the mud when it comes to these forms, you seem to have grasped so quickly that it makes me wanna pop in here just to see what ya'll are up to..I know I might lurk and learn something!!

cant wait to see your poem posted good work

i think you just made it kind of hard to let that poem get lost in the threads

i read your poetry maria, i see what beautiful stuff you write, soooo..your little ramble just made my small mind feel giant!

ty hun!

 

[The Mutt]

This is not my contest entry, but I had fun hammering on it. I'll figure this punctuation thing out eventually.

Hypercharge
She feels the sizzle coming through the wires,
She strokes the keys with tingling fingertips
and grabs the pulsing throb of microchips,
her face aglow with light from cathode fires.

She has the turning world beneath her hand,
She hears the piercing whine as rotors turn,
and smells the ozone stink as motors burn,
and rides a coursing current made of sand.

A world of knowledge there at her command,
A web of information there to learn,
but drawn by want, surrendering her trust,

she searches for the banished and the banned.
She enters in and lets her conscience churn,
and gives her soul completely to here lust.

Her tongue is stung by copper-tinged desires,
She bytes into the core and chews her lips,
past sense into the sensual she slips,
and types and types and types 'til she expires.

And then the morning comes, as morning must,
and turns electric dreams to cyber-dust.

 

[doormouse]

Very good The Mutt

I don't know if I'll still enter. I have two days to come up with an idea and work with it.

I need inspiration.

 

[Liar]

hyperpyrexia

<<znip>>

***

It's a wonderful poem and the form is tight! One hardly notices it. I don't think there's a place I could point to and say 'he chose this word because of the meter or rhyme'. Very good.

My only doubt was in 'pandemonic'. Shouldn't the real word be pan·de·mo·ni·ac? Doesn't matter. It works, and that's what poetic license is for.

Thanks for making the effort to look it over and write a shitload of tags. It's really appriciated, I was certain that I had screwed up the meter somewhere but too blind to see it myself.

Pandemonic was my lame attempt at wordplay. I wanted it t be borh pandemoniac and demonic. And hay, it fit the meter. I'm still pondering that one.

ta!

#L

 

[The Mutt]

Very good The Mutt

I don't know if I'll still enter. I have two days to come up with an idea and work with it.

I need inspiration.

How about a hypersonnet about cold noses in warm bottoms?
Mutt
butt
rut
nut....

 

[Guest]

I stretched the rules - again and chose to the title Hyperion.

Well - "hyper" is in the title.

 

[perks]

fucking fuck, I still have to write this thing. goddamnit all to fucking hell.