I am outraged!!!

[pointless]

catcher in the rye is a work of fiction. the olsen twins are real people. it's not the hard to decipher the difference between the two.

real people = real
fictional people = not real

(i don't mean to sound like a dick, but i'm an angry arguer)

 

[Guest]

Not to mention, the thought of Mary Kate & Ashley (or the Harry Potter kids) in a sexual situation is very repulsive!

 

[DarlingNikki]

catcher in the rye is a work of fiction. the olsen twins are real people. it's not the hard to decipher the difference between the two.

real people = real
fictional people = not real

(i don't mean to sound like a dick, but i'm an angry arguer)

I'm just responding to the idea that the Harry Potter stories should be axed because the characters are under 18 in the books and movies.

If you don't want to sound like a dick, why not rephrase? If you don't mind sounding like a dick because you're an "angry arguer" why add a disclaimer?

 

[Master_Vassago]

LOL I never expected anything like this, I suspect I may get automatically voted down at times now.

Screw it I don't care about votes anyway. I do have to agree it's all in the scope of the narrator's mind. Personally since Laurel pulled the stories I am fine with this it is at her discretion. Now will I post another story like that in the year and so many days when the girls turn 18 um, HELL Yes!

For now I just changed the names to Sandy and Mandy Bentley before Hugh Hefner got ahold of them. That should satisfy all those opposed and the ones who are with Me on this just wait until they are 18 and I will launch into a full on sexual tale about them. That is if I am still even interested in doing that.

Thanks for the support and opposition if nothing else you have brought light to some of My stories and gotten people interested.

 

[SexyChele]

At the sake of beating a dead horse that I seemed to have dragged in here last night, it seems odd to me that no had written anything about Harry Potter until the movies were released. This allowed the images of the book to come to the screen. Quite frankly, I have less problems with a writer envisioning a fantasy involving two 16 year old girls, then people would would read (and give marks to) a story where the characters - real life, by the way, in the movie not merely fictional - are under the age of 14. Harry Potter may have developed into a celeb fiction story without the book becoming a movie. However, I believe the actors and actresses in the movie spurred the idea along.

I don't mean to "harp" on the Potter stories, I simply went through the stories, and got as far as Harry Potter before I found celebs that are underage. I certain if I did a more extensive search, I would find other stories of other celebs who are, or were, minors at the time the story was written and the writer "worked around" Lit's rules by making it futuristic. I doubt the Olsen twins story or the Harry Potter stories are any great exceptions or innovations in the idea of pushing up an age of a character.

I simply feel that if the age thing is being enforced to the point of not being able to date it into the future, then it should apply to all stories. But then, I accept I am not the owner of this site and I certainly realize I have the last opinion to be considered.

 

[pointless]

I'm just responding to the idea that the Harry Potter stories should be axed because the characters are under 18 in the books and movies.

If you don't want to sound like a dick, why not rephrase? If you don't mind sounding like a dick because you're an "angry arguer" why add a disclaimer?

because i was in a hurry and didn't want to lose my train of thought. when the dinner bell rings it's easier just to go, then to hear the repeated call to come.

much easier to add a disclaimer then remember what the hell i was thinking 15 minutes ago, or retype the whole damned thing while people are yelling for me over here in real people land.

the disclaimer basically means: hope you understand my point here, sorry if it seems a bit too harsh, but thisinstinctive reaction to your post. if i misunderstood you, i apologize. if i didn't, then there ya go.

in a nutshell - i'm not trying to be jerk i'm just trying not to lose my train of thought, dig?

 

[SexyChele]

Okay, I took a little deeper look into the Celeb category. There are some celebrities in there I don't even have the foggiest idea of who they are, so I can speak to them. The idea of pushing characters into the future to satisfy age requirements seems to be fairly common at Lit. Or at least attempting to make the situation sound as if the character has aged past what is acceptable. But in the 10 minute search that I did, I found the following. I'll let y'all be the judges:

Full House: Michelle (who, as I do recall was played by the Olsen twins?) is the main character of the story. It is not fully clear what her age is, however, obviously all the other characters in the show are grown. Is this simply "fiction"? I mean, I never even watched the show and I know that the character of Michelle was played by the Olsen twins and they are 16.

Gilmore Girls: Another show I've never watched (don't watch much TV), but I have a co-worker who tells me the young charater who plays the daughter on the show is her own daughter's age (15). In the story at Lit, the writer has pushed the age ahead to be celebrating the daughter's 18th birthday. I don't know who the real actress is, or her age.

Brady Bunch: Now this show I have watched, I will admit. In this story, Greg, Jan, and Marcia are involved in a threesome. Age is not mentioned at all throughout the story. However, reference is made to Greg removing his bell bottom jeans - something I know for a fact went completely out of style by 1978. Also there is the lingo of the 60/70s, such as "groovy" - a work I know for a fact went the way of the dodo before 1975. Now, the character of Greg might have been over 18, but what of Marcia and Jan?

Quite frankly, I think there is too much leeway in the celebrity category to really keep a firm grip on it. I mean, in everyone's mind Marcia and Jan are these cute little teenagers, and when the writer doesn't give an age yet keeps the action in the same time period as the show, the reader can only be envisioning torrid sex between minors. Well, that's my opinion.

An interesting concept would be - where does one draw the line? Only at real life characters like the Olsens? Or the characters they used to play on TV? Or cartoon characters, such as Pebbles and BamBam? (yup, they're out there too)

Personally, I don't see why one writer has been penalized for doing something (stating a story is in the future) when it is done quite frequently here at Lit. If one is penalized, all should be. But, again, my own opinion.

 

[Guest]

The idea of pushing characters into the future to satisfy age requirements seems to be fairly common at Lit.

Unfortunately it does seem to be a common trend at Lit. And, Laurel is looking into it more.

Full House: Michelle (who, as I do recall was played by the Olsen twins?) is the main character of the story. I mean, I never even watched the show and I know that the character of Michelle was played by the Olsen twins and they are 16.

The Olsen twins were around 2 years old when Full House began. During the course of the show, NONE of the girls hit 18. (I am fairly sure.) Of course, Candice Cameron is older than 18 now, but I don't think DJ Tanner ever was.

Gilmore Girls: Another show I've never watched (don't watch much TV), but I have a co-worker who tells me the young charater who plays the daughter on the show is her own daughter's age (15). In the story at Lit, the writer has pushed the age ahead to be celebrating the daughter's 18th birthday.

Laurel has already been notified.

Also there is the lingo of the 60/70s, such as "groovy" - a work I know for a fact went the way of the dodo before 1975.

I say groovy all the time.

Quite frankly, I think there is too much leeway in the celebrity category to really keep a firm grip on it. I mean, in everyone's mind Marcia and Jan are these cute little teenagers, and when the writer doesn't give an age yet keeps the action in the same time period as the show, the reader can only be envisioning torrid sex between minors. Well, that's my opinion.

I agree. And, this could lead to trouble for Laurel and this site.

An interesting concept would be - where does one draw the line? Only at real life characters like the Olsens? Or the characters they used to play on TV? Or cartoon characters, such as Pebbles and BamBam? (yup, they're out there too)

Well, there have been cartoon shows were Pebbles and Bambam were married. That should make them over 18, right? As for your other questions... I think real life minor aged celebs should not be at Lit for the site's safety. The same goes for TV and movie characrers that are portrayed as minors.

Personally, I don't see why one writer has been penalized for doing something (stating a story is in the future) when it is done quite frequently here at Lit. If one is penalized, all should be. But, again, my own opinion.

I wasn't penalizing him. His was the first story in this fashion that I saw. And, I was shocked that it was ranked number one of all stories at Lit.

 

[Master_Vassago]

OKIE DOKIE, it's all done and over with. I have spoken with Laurel and although I see both sides of the fence here I have to agree with everyone. I am not being wishy washy I stand by My work but, in the best interest of this site and future of all of us here I agree with her pulling the stories.

Yes I said that I agree with her. LOL I knew the story hit number one on the site and I must say even though it was pulled I am proud of the work even through all the protests and such. If you put two different names in there instead of the Olsen's will it change the scores? We will soon see.

Blessed even though I was pissed and would have appreciated a bit more discretion and less harsh words in a feedback if you still have issues with Me lets talk. Via PM. Email or something. I didn't intend to have such a major uprising and really didn't give this deep thought as to legal ramifications. But it's at least good that this way in case there are other stories out there Laurel can pull them and save the integrity and future of this site.

I once again say no ill feelings BB. I have the utmost respect for you and hope that you at least tolerate Me after all this. Let's put this behind us everyone and move on in the interest of fairness if I can drop it, everyone else should too.

Thanks to everyone that responded in My defense or what the hell even opposed the story at least in the long run no one was slapped with a lawsuit.

Blessed if I seemed to attack you I'm sorry, I am sure anyone would respond as I did having a story of their's attacked. Enjoy your reading and writing everyone I am done here. I may post again on this board subject but I feel it has been covered and is mute now.

Actually I think we should keep this thread going for a while just in the event any other author's decide to tackle this issue we can show it is a no win situation and it won't be tolerated on this site.

 

[pointless]

why don't you just post it somewhere else? keep the story intact without changing names and all that. this is not the only place around, and most of the others have more "liberal" views on age limits.

you wouldn't even have to bump the ages up.

i've argued against the age limit a couple of times myself, but since i am nobody it was just me wasting breath(or the typing equivolent whatever that might be). i actually wish i could have read your story.

my point was simply rule based. in reality, i wish we could get rid of all the silly rules that bind us. fiction should be taken as fiction.

fucking potential litigators ruining all our fun! (fist shaking over dramaticly in the air)

(and if you think i'm vacilating(?) between veiwpoints, your wrong. rule of law is one thing, personal belief is something else entirely)

 

[Master_Vassago]

Ok I may not be able to post the story but I still have it Myself. So pointless if you would like to read it as it was let Me know and I will send it to an email addy. I have no problem doing that. I do think some liberal creativity should be allowed but I will bow to Laurel's wishes. As I stated I shared a lengthy pm with her and her response subdued any anger I still had over this.

So I guess for anyone else that wants to read the original vs. what will be in print let Me know in an email or pm and I will send it too you. Alas some may still want to read the original and if I send it to them I don't forsee any problems with that.

 

[SexyChele]

Unfortunately it does seem to be a common trend at Lit. And, Laurel is looking into it more.


<Snip>

Thanks, BB, for letting Laurel know. I just wasn't sure of what the rules are exactly. Hopefully now they can be made much more clearer for writers.

Oh, and I hadn't meant that you had penalized MV. No, not at all. I was speaking of having his story pulled while others remained. It seems that the entire situation is being worked out. That's good, and I'm glad.

Now, to think of a celebrity who is already well over 18 to write about!

 

[the_bragis]

I don't think so.

Hello pointless,

my point was simply rule based. in reality, i wish we could get rid of all the silly rules that bind us. fiction should be taken as fiction.

Please I don't want to being a whole new debate here with you, but I am curious. At what age exactly do you think it's not kiddy porn?

Or are you suggesting that as fiction, it simply isn't?

I've heard it said that pedophiles say "Get them before they turn eight, because after that it's too late."

So, let's say any child character above eight years old then?

I don't think so.

Alex.

 

[sweetnpetite]

discussion has been moved:
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165434

Who is Holden Caulfield and why do you want to write a sex story about a minor?

You have GOT to be kidding! Catcher in the Rye? Ive never even read it, but I know who the main character is. Also, that book is a clasic (read old) and took place far enough into the past, I think we can reasonably assume he'd be over 18 in 2003. I absolutley agree that fictional characters should be held to a direrent standard. An author can make a character any age at any time. I can right about adults, then flashback to childhood, I can have them dream that they are in an old age home. Or like the greenmile, he tells the story from some timein the futer, later we find out how much later. (It is much much later) I can write a book where my character is 6 and in the next book they can be 60. I don't see why the standard should be any different for a parady.

As for real people, I think aging them strattles the line. If it where me, I'd just age them, take out the last name, and put them somewhere other than celebraty. Someone would probably still be outraged, but someone always is. I dont' think you can go back and 'age" someone so young as say the GERBER BABY, but then what about Shirly Temple, she's known as a cute little girl, but she's grown up. Is someone automaticly a pedophile if they write a story about her? Obviously these are judgement calls that only the site owners can make.

Also, writing about underaged sex is not illegal. It is only against the rules. Just like writing about rape is not illegal, writing about sex with animals or writing about other illegal activities. So this person is not a criminal, they just bent a rule, so calm yourself. Also, underage for legal sexual activity actually varies from state to state, as well as different countries. And if you read the stories under first time, at least 95% of the characters in those stories are aged. Think about it- did you lose your virginity on your 18th birthday? I know I didn't. And there is a diference between underage sex and pedophilia. Only a sick person prays on children, but many normal men where lusting after Britney Spears far before she was of "legal age" so when you say "why would you want to write a sex story about a minor" as if she is some kind of sick person, I think your off base here if you are occusing her of being somekind of pervert. (which is what it sounds like) Do you ask people for id, before you allow yourself to have sexual thoughts about them? some 17 year olds look 12 and some look 25, trust me, I used to card people for a living.

I'm not saying that they don't have a right to pull any story they want, because they certainly do. I'm only saying that your outrage is just a little bit overblown. Nobody commited a crime, he didn't even write about a crime. Under the standard that fictional characters can not be aged, I would say that we can't write about anybody who's ever been underaged, especially if they where famous at the time. Real people, as I said, must be left to the discression of the moderators and owners of the site.

 

[sweetnpetite]

[B]discussion has been moved:[/B]

discussion has been moved:
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165434

Not to mention, the thought of Mary Kate & Ashley (or the Harry Potter kids) in a sexual situation is very repulsive!

to you. everyone obviously does not feel the same.

to me the thought of a mother and her son in a sexual situation is repulsive.

 

[RoughPlay]

So am I.

 

[karmadog]

It does matter that the story was about real people who are under 18. Celebrity and fanfic are dangerous areas as far as libel or copyright laws are concerned.

Personally, I think it's in poor taste to write stories about underaged celebs, but probably not an illegal issue assuming that, as MV did, they are imagined in the future.

Still, the ultimate risk is run by the site. Even if they're right, it could cost a fortune to defend themselves. Should anyone sue, they're not going after the penniless writer, they would go after the owners of the site.

In my opinion, that is something to keep in mind. We should consider ourselves guests in Laurel's house and not take a shit on the rug.

 

[English Lady]

I jut want to say a well done to Master vasago for being so open minded and responsible with his work .

I think you've done the right thing in taking down the stories. I hope this instance goes to make other writers think before "bumping up" ages of celeb characters be they real or fictional.

I am quite interested to see what happens, if this debate effects submissions or not *S*

 

[KillerMuffin]

Interesting dichotomy, but I'm not complaining because it's not my place to do so.

Fanfic is illegal. It's a derivative work and therefore theft of intellectual property and copyright infringement. The rub here is that the people who write fanfic are fans. They adore the shows and buy the videos, bump the ratings, and attend the conventions. That puts copyright holders in a pretty crappy position. Prosecute and lose the fans or let them do whatever they want to with the characters, to the point of assuming that the copyright holders have no grounds for complaint? You can tell where most copyright holders have decided to go. They let it happen because you don't piss off your fan base.

It's still illegal.

Fictional stories about real people are not illegal, no matter how old they are. However, you run into the problem of libel. If you write a story about a celeb raping a woman, then that celeb has grounds to sue. If you write a story about a celeb having sex with a consensual adult, then they have no real legal recourse.

My opinion is that fanfic shouldn't be permitted here, but that's not the opinion of management and that's just fine with me. I don't like celeb stories either, but that's personal opinion as well.

 

[pointless]

age of consent is sixteen according to the federal government, and that's my personal limit, though not because of the law.

i've met a few sixteen year old's who are essentially adults (though still a little naive), i have never met anyone younger than that that i could hold a conversation with.

but i'm a bit of a libertarian. i also believe in legalized drugs, dropping the drinking age significantly, dropping any kind of governmental restrictions on my freedom to own guns, etc.

it's just a personal opinion.

just remember the age of 18 is not a sacred date from way back when. it's an arbitrary limit imposed because of the belief that there has to be a limit, and, admitedly, in our culture there probably does have to be one.

it's a legal issue and laws are not morals. laws can be changed and every once in a while they should be changed. it makes life interesting.

is that good enough?

and just so you know i'm not planning on having sex with anyone under legal age(or, sadly, above it) anytime soon. that's why i like the fiction part of it. i get to satisfy my twisted desires without hurting anyone or being hurt myself. i just feel twice as dirty after i'm done jerking off.

thankfully, the shower doesn't mind how dirty i am.

 

[Guest]

to you. everyone obviously does not feel the same.

No shit. Never once did I say it was "not" my opinion and was "fact" or some other moronic statement.

Forgive me for thinking of the Olsen twins as NOT being sexually exciting. Or, for that matter, the CHILDREN of Harry Potter.

 

[Guest]

Still, the ultimate risk is run by the site. Even if they're right, it could cost a fortune to defend themselves. Should anyone sue, they're not going after the penniless writer, they would go after the owners of the site.

In my opinion, that is something to keep in mind. We should consider ourselves guests in Laurel's house and not take a shit on the rug.

Thank you very much! Lord knows how many times I have tried to get this point across to people at Lit!!!! Hell, I'm not "anti teen stories". But, I am "pro Lit".

Think this site would remain FREE if Laurel had added expenses to defend the writers who write under aged celeb stories? Think the site would be around anymore if they lost?

Ever hear the phrase "driving is not a right, it's a privilege"? Well, so it Lit. One day Laurel could get sick of everyone's bullshit and remove her site off cyber space. She could take a perminate vacation and never come back to update, keep up with contests, or correspond with people who come here.

 

[pointless]

true.

that's why i keep my complaints amongst us proles. the mistress of the house could probably care less about my humble opinion.

that's just fine by me. if it were my site things would be different, but my lazy, computer illiterate ass doesn't have a site.

and i'd have to say that lit is (in my experience) the best site of it's kind around. it certainly is easier to get around then most of the others.

i remember when i thought nifty was the greatest thing ever until i came across this site with it's helpful little summaries to tell you what the hell it is exactly i'm about to start reading. it's spoiled me. i've been ruined for life.

poor nifty, how will it survive without my patronage?




quite well, i'm sure.

 

[SubmissAngel919]

wow, not much more to be said that hasn't been already... just wanted to add my 2 cents worth.
i applaud SexyChele on her research of "underage" characters in the Celeb. section. If Master_Vassago's stories were pulled due to upping the age to fit the future setting of a story of currently underage people, others should be pulled as well. i had noticed the Harry Potter series of stories here as also. i CHOSE not to read them, because in my mind, i would be reading about a 14 year old boy and that being my problem, not the author's.
However, this is FICTION and if, in the work of a fictional story the setting is the future, this should include being able to age the characters.
Being that i thoroughly enjoy Lit, i would hate this to become a problem of such magnitude that Laurel would find it necessary to shut down, so i feel it should either be stated in the guidelines that aging "real" minors is a no-no, or that all the stories should be allowed to stand on their own merit: that of a work of fiction where in the fictional setting, the characters are of legal age of consent....

~submissangel919~

 

[SubmissAngel919]

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