I miss the fitness threads and the fitness Doms!

[JMohegan]

Ah. Well okay then. I know I've written this before somewhere here but in order to succeed at a diet, you have to be obsessive and detailed about it. I suppose that's why the hardest part of a diet is maintenance because you no longer have that obsessive mindset to keep you on track. In the interest of the health benefits of losing weight, I think it's worth it but it's not sustainable or good for your mental health in the long term for most.

I actually do know people who've lost weight without being obsessive & detailed about it.

Engaging in physical activity to lose weight is not the same thing as engaging in physical activity because you enjoy the activity itself. The former's a chore, the latter a treat, and the irony is that fitness is far more likely to be achieved with the treating.

 

[JMohegan]

Back to the experiences of our youth -- if you weren't good at sports, you probably experienced some sort of humiliation related to that growing up. Heck I was pretty decent and I experienced some humiliation!

Oh definitely. I don't know how sports are taught in school now (or if they're even still taught in school) but 'back in the day' they were ground zero for childhood trauma. Oh yes, I was often the kid picked last or second to last for a team. Natural born klutz with two left feet. Still, it's sad that, as grown ups, so many can't move past that.

The very same thing is true for academics. And yet, we do have a general societal expectation that people will work through their issues and become reasonably well-educated citizens, capable of supporting themselves.

There is no comparable expectation with regard to physical activity. There's not even a pretense of such a thing. I don't know what passes for "physical education" in Canada, but in America at large it's a fucking disaster.

 

[FurryFury]

I'm not interested in counting calories or weighing my food or myself. I am interested in eating healthily as a habit and having a healthy fit body. I don't want to become obsessive. I absolutely refuse to be obsessive rather than enjoy my life. That's a choice because obsession comes easily to me.

I actually can enjoy working out in a variety of ways, every single day when I have someone to report to who gives a damn but the inhalant allergies often make me too sick to keep on. So it's getting back to it that is my issue as well as often not having anyone to report to / or work out with. I really do enjoy that most.

Now I'll admit being raised Seventh Day Adventist gave me a leg up on life long fitness both on a physical activity and nutrition level. Even though I left the church long ago, I've recently realized that did give me a healthy lifestyle view that is useful to me and missing for many if not most of America.

Starting in late August, my new life begins, the empty nest version. I can't wait! I have so much to do! I plan to actually prioritize meditation (not the crazy, long, starve yourself, don't sleep and suffer kind but the relaxation and goal oriented kind) and work outs in such a way that illnesses and being busy doesn't derail me.

I actually do know people who've lost weight without being obsessive & detailed about it.

Engaging in physical activity to lose weight is not the same thing as engaging in physical activity because you enjoy the activity itself. The former's a chore, the latter a treat, and the irony is that fitness is far more likely to be achieved with the treating.

 

[intothewoods]

I actually do know people who've lost weight without being obsessive & detailed about it.

Engaging in physical activity to lose weight is not the same thing as engaging in physical activity because you enjoy the activity itself. The former's a chore, the latter a treat, and the irony is that fitness is far more likely to be achieved with the treating.

There have been a few studies that have shown that exercise doesn't really have much impact on weight loss. Of course there are other benefits, plenty of them, but once I shifted focus on fitness to overall health, toning/strength and enjoyment, it helped me stop thinking of my workouts as a chore.

 

[midwestyankee]

There have been a few studies that have shown that exercise doesn't really have much impact on weight loss. Of course there are other benefits, plenty of them, but once I shifted focus on fitness to overall health, toning/strength and enjoyment, it helped me stop thinking of my workouts as a chore.

Theoretically, regular exercise should lead to weight loss. However, there is a pretty well-known phenomenon called the license effect that gets in the way. Many people come away from their workouts with a small inner voice telling them that the exercise gives them the license to eat a fudge sundae at lunch or to eat pizza and drink beer with equanimity. The two nearly always cancel each other out; in fact, the consequences of the license effect often overwhelm the benefits of any exercise.

 

[Keroin]

...we do have a general societal expectation that people will work through their issues and become reasonably well-educated citizens...

Well, that's debatable. Depends on your definition of "reasonably" I think.

I remember going to a bank machine south of the line a few years ago and being completely gobsmacked when I saw that "deposit" and withdraw" had been changed to "put money in" and "take money out".

There have been a few studies that have shown that exercise doesn't really have much impact on weight loss.

More and more data is pointing this way Re: diet versus exercise. It really would be awesome if people started re-thinking the reasons for staying fit and actually enjoying physical activity again.

Speaking of which, the sun is out and the trail along Lakeside Park is calling me!

 

[JMohegan]

Theoretically, regular exercise should lead to weight loss. However, there is a pretty well-known phenomenon called the license effect that gets in the way. Many people come away from their workouts with a small inner voice telling them that the exercise gives them the license to eat a fudge sundae at lunch or to eat pizza and drink beer with equanimity. The two nearly always cancel each other out; in fact, the consequences of the license effect often overwhelm the benefits of any exercise.

Yup.

I remember reading what Michael Phelps ate every day when he was in training. It was disgusting! But look at that guy in the Olympics photos - not a speck of fat on him.

We're not all Michael Phelps. Not hardly.

The "theory" that works (medical issues aside) is for folks to be active enough to maintain cardiovascular health, and eat a well-balanced diet with caloric intake commensurate with the amount they're burning.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

JM, I know your words ring true for you and people you know regarding working out outside of one's pleasures and counting calories, but for some people it's a necessary "evil".

Regarding calorie counting, some people need to have a concrete "target" and tracking of a task in order to achieve it. yes, with some people, it's a bit narcissitic. But for me, it's just what I need to do. Otherwise I end up making allowances for myself. But when I did things like actually SEE how many calories were in a tortilla (a regular "snack" for me previously), versus things like leafy greens (which are practically calorie-lacking), and concretely see how it affected my diet... I went from grabbing a tortilla when I was peckish to grabbing a bowl full of straight up raw spring greens to eat like popcorn!! It worked so much better AND I felt great about achieving a calorie goal and being more healthy at the same time!! If I share information about my net calories, it's because they're my concrete and objective guideline regarding my weight loss goal. It's the objective measure I am using to track and communicate my progress. It IS a chore. But it's a chore that really really helps!!! With my family's metabolism, every calorie "counts" (hah), so having a good way to follow them is helpful to me.

And regarding exercise that isn't"fun", I TOTALLY agree with you. It's so much easier for me to go burn 150 calories with half an hour of riding than it is for me to burn the same amount running, and I enjoy it a LOT more!! But, the simple fact is, that sometimes it's just not possible for people to get all their exercise from what they love. I can't go ride more than once or twice a week most of the time. I love Krav Maga, but it's only once a week. The only other exercise I really enjoy are games like soccer and rugby, but I don't have time to do that either. So I run, despite the fact I don't really start to enjoy it until between mile mark 2-2.5. I talk about my miles I've achieved because I'm DAMNED PROUD OF MYSELF!!! I've never been a runner. Running two, three miles and finishing a 5K were all HUGE accomplishments for me. It may be narcissistic to talk about it, but it's the kind of narcissism that's healthy, isn't it? It's good to have some pride in yourself and your accomplishments!! And, again, my mileage is another concrete number to gauge my progress with. As another example of an activity "I don't enjoy but try to do", I actually do kinda like weight lifting, but I detest our gym and don't have a lot of time to use it anyway. So I use resistance bands at home which kind of irritate the hell out of me. But it's what I have to work with!

Anyway...I guess my point there is that people may have to do activities they don't enjoy because they don't have the resources (physical or knowledge-wise) to do other things, or they may not have times for the things they enjoy. While it's not optimal, there's nothing inherently WRONG with that...people still need to be active even if they can't find a place to dance a good polka!! Also, in the end, there are some people who seriously do not enjoy any sort of physical activity. One of my roommates has never been athletic (I'm so glad my parents kept me active...I'd hate to be like that!!), is rather heavy, and seriously struggles to even get through the first week of the Couch 2 5k program. She doesn't have a good activity she really enjoys. So we're cajoling her to come with us because even if she won't like the running, it is good for her!! Side note, we finally got her to stop buying Velveeta. That alone is an accomplishment 9_9

People should focus on being healthy over calories, and people should do things they love. But there are exceptions to most rules and it's a bit unfair to call people narcissistic because they do something differently and talk about it. Sharing progress creates an accountability that can help motivate people. Hell, half the reason why I keep running is because people were so supportive of me finishing the 5K. I felt awesome, like I DID something!!! Even though I'm not a huge fan of the runningthing...


If I'm reading too much in to your statements and seemingly taking offense over nothing, I apologize. I just felt like you were jabbing your finger at people that are doing the best they can in their situation... In general, I do agree with what you said.

 

[JMohegan]

People should focus on being healthy over calories, and people should do things they love. But there are exceptions to most rules and it's a bit unfair to call people narcissistic because they do something differently and talk about it.

As I've already said -

No, by "excruciating narcissism" I was referring to the rep counting, minute counting, mile counting, calorie & pound tracking, drudgery that people seem to hate. Grinding, joyless self-obsession.

If you love this kung fu stuff and revel in the results, then that's precisely the joie de vivre to which I was referring. Celebrating what your body can do is not a bad thing; it's part of the joy of living.

Congratulations on your achievements, bbe88. Celebrate, rock on.

If you can't be physically active in a manner you enjoy as often as you'd like, here's hoping you have a chance to in the future.

 

[Homburg]

I read an article a few years back that said that when it comes to body composition changes, it was 80% diet and 20% exercise, broadly speaking. The person was basing this off of studies that were cited at the end of the article, so I'm assuming it was at least moderately good info.

The point this fellow was making was that you could have the best workout program on the planet, and would not make meaningful progress if your diet undercut everything else yo did. No matter how hard you work, you only spend, say, eight hours a week exercising (random number), and that leaves another 160 hours to destroy the benefits earned in those eight hours.

--

Aaand I continue to gain weight. Pants aren't any tighter in the waist, but the shirts are. The thighs are likewise finding less room in the same drawers.

I am officially giving up on my weight goal. I'm going to establish a pant size goal and see if I can hit that.

 

[Homburg]

Yesterday was interesting. It was deadlift day, and the last set was an AMAP (as many reps as possible) set. Now, if you've never done heavy deadlifts, this doesn't sound bad. For many people, AMAP is standard protocol. But, well, most people don't deadlift at all.

Frankly, it sucks. There's no cheating. There's no bouncing the weight. There's no handy positional tricks to shorten the barpath. It is the single most pure test of strength I know. You grab the barbell and stand up with it. For such a simple thing, wow, deadlifts suck. Worse, we're doing sumo deadlifts this time around, and both AP and myself are conventional deadlifters.

(Sumo is very wide stance DL, while conventional is narrow)

Anyway, we did our deads, and really gave it a go. It was submaximal weight, but the reps made it an effort of great will. I made it to 10 with 275#. It was kinda funny, as I hit 7 and thought, "Fuck that was HARD," but kept going. 8 and 9 weren't so bad, but 10 was just brutal. AP looked at me and said I was dumb, because I was obviously done at 7. Kudos to him for watching well enough to note how rough 7 was.

Note - with submaximal, but still meaningful, weights (75% of 1rm in this case), it is as much a factor of how long your grip holds out and how well your energy systems function as it is a matter of strength. Because you spend the whole set with bar in hand, and after a while, you will be fighting to gulp down air.

Anyway, we finished out the assistance work, and went to the racquetball court, as usual these days. That's where it got interesting. We were both wrecked from the deads, so, wow, sucked on the court even worse than usual. AP was really struggling, as he'd had a complete grip failure on the last set, so his forearms were just gone.

Anyway, after about 30 minutes, the play really picked up. We went from tottering and stumbling about to starting to run, jump for shots, etc. And it was both of us at the same time. It was like somebody turned the lights on, and the suck went away. Interesting effect. I've never had as clear a demarckation between "I'm blasted and want to sit down," and "Wow, I feel better now." And AP hit it at the same time.

Go, go racquetball.



PS - No idea if any of this lifter shit is even remotely interesting to you all. I figure at worst, it's a glimpse into how one crazy dude makes the sweat.

 

[Keroin]

I have discovered the joy of quinoa!

Though it seems like a grain (it cooks like rice), it is actually a 'pseudocereal', and more closely related to beets or spinach. I gave it a try because I am borderline anemic and always looking for iron-rich foods. But quinoa has not just iron to recommend it but also essential amino acids, calcium and phosphorous. It is also an excellent and complete source of protein. Gluten free too!

Yesterday I made a quinoa greek salad, which was super YUMMY and healthy!

YUM!

Homburg, this might be right up your alley, with your new eating regime?

 

[Homburg]

Been eating quinoa for a while now, actually. Still trying to find different ways to use it. That salad looks right good. So far my favorite is black, quinoa, and corn.

Basically slice up an onion and saute it in a bit of olive oil with some finely diced garlic. Toss in some cumin, salt, black pepper, cilantro (fresh if possible, but that goes without saying IMO), and maybe a pinch of cayenne pepper. Once the onion is close to done, drop the heat and add black beans (I use canned, I know, lame), and corn (I use frozen) and then the quinoa (cooked as you like it, as I find it saves a lot of time and error to just add cooked quinoa), and then let it stew for a bit over lowish heat. Add in a bit of liquid if you want (water or stock).

It's not a recipe so much as it is a food combination. I don't really do recipes. Anyway, black beans, corn, and quinoa together with sauteed onions, garlic, cumin, and cilantro is just silly good IMO. viv even liked it, and she does NOT like black beans.

I regularly substitute quinoa for rice to good effect, and always make extra. I'm very big on repurposing leftovers when I cook, so having some cooked quinoa in the fridge inevitably leads to experimentation.

Edit - I've been using the tri-color version, as I have an easier time finding it. Do you know if there's a taste/texture difference compared to white?

 

[Keroin]

It's not a recipe so much as it is a food combination. I don't really do recipes. Anyway, black beans, corn, and quinoa together with sauteed onions, garlic, cumin, and cilantro is just silly good IMO. viv even liked it, and she does NOT like black beans.

Mmm, sounds tasty. Would have to make it just for myself, as L hates cooked onions. (I know...weird).

Edit - I've been using the tri-color version, as I have an easier time finding it. Do you know if there's a taste/texture difference compared to white?

No idea. I only use what's available in the local store. Also, the greek dish is also super simple. Basically: tomatoes, English cuke, orange bell pepper, olives, green onions and quinoa. Toss with olive oil and lemon juice, throw in some oregano and basil and crumbled feta cheese (I use goat feta, with the allergies and all). Chill and eat!

ETA: I should have mentioned that the quinoa was cooked in chicken stock.

I recently had chocolate cupcakes made with quinoa because of the wheat allergy - they were AMAZING and actually healthy. (Well, except for the icing slathered all over them but...icing, yeah).

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I love quinoa. You can use it for so many things. i think the colored versions have a bit nuttier/richer flavor but like...BARELY so. It may be my imagination

 

[Homburg]

Mmm, sounds tasty. Would have to make it just for myself, as L hates cooked onions. (I know...weird).

I don't think the cooked onions are core to the flavor.

He doesn't like cooked onions? Seriously?

No idea. I only use what's available in the local store. Also, the greek dish is also super simple. Basically: tomatoes, English cuke, orange bell pepper, olives, green onions and quinoa. Toss with olive oil and lemon juice, throw in some oregano and basil and crumbled feta cheese (I use goat feta, with the allergies and all). Chill and eat!

That does look right tasty. Gonna have to try that. How do you prepare yours? I've tried a few different ways, but the winner seems to be treating it like brown rice in my steamer.

I recently had chocolate cupcakes made with quinoa because of the wheat allergy - they were AMAZING and actually healthy. (Well, except for the icing slathered all over them but...icing, yeah).

viv made some brownie muffins using black beans as the base of the recipe. They were seriously fudgey. How did the baker use the quinoa? Whole or ground into flour?

--

I love quinoa. You can use it for so many things. i think the colored versions have a bit nuttier/richer flavor but like...BARELY so. It may be my imagination

That's kind of why I was asking. I had the white quinoa a few years back, and don't recall much flavor at all, while the tri-color mix has flavor. It's mild, but, yeah, earthy and nutty would be good descriptors.

I still like rice, though I've found that I really dig brown rice. This was a surprise, as for years I was rather put off by brown rice. Turns out that when I make it myself, it's darned good. Anyway, for a lot of the stuff I make, I like rice better as a base, but for recipes that need rice added to it, the quinoa is killer for that. For stuff that's not going to clash with the earthiness, it makes for a great base too. Mostly it's a matter of finding how to make it work with dishes I already make. An example would be indian cooking. The indian stuff seems to work whole cloth, and many of the mexican style recipes do too. It's mostly the Asian stuff that doesn't go as well, IMO.

And, as an aside, it makes me happy to see healthy food being discussed here as well. Diet > exercise.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I still like rice, though I've found that I really dig brown rice. This was a surprise, as for years I was rather put off by brown rice. Turns out that when I make it myself, it's darned good. Anyway, for a lot of the stuff I make, I like rice better as a base, but for recipes that need rice added to it, the quinoa is killer for that. For stuff that's not going to clash with the earthiness, it makes for a great base too. Mostly it's a matter of finding how to make it work with dishes I already make. An example would be indian cooking. The indian stuff seems to work whole cloth, and many of the mexican style recipes do too. It's mostly the Asian stuff that doesn't go as well, IMO.

And, as an aside, it makes me happy to see healthy food being discussed here as well. Diet > exercise.

Out of curiosity, I bought some of the black rice ("Forbidden Rice") and I ADORE IT. It's so flavorful and delicious!!! I definitely recommend it if you have it available. We definitely talk about healthy food...I think as long as I'm here we'll have to. I'm a bit of a food whore




In other news, I've lost all the weight I gained back while my boy is here, putting me at 160. I started at 170 in February. I also feel like I'm slowly getting some strength back. I'd be getting more back if I was actually weight training, but the only strength exercises I'm doing is riding once or twice a week and Krav Maga once a week (somewhat intermittently. It depends on my schedule whether or not I can make it). I plan on adding in some resistance band training because it's easy for me to do at home.

 

[intothewoods]

I have a few quinoa salads I make but I have to say it feels heavy to me after I've eaten it. Like falafel or something. Tastes good but, I don't know, it's just so dense.

 

[midwestyankee]

Consider this a tease for a longer post that I promise to write later. I just finished reading a book that includes an extended discussion of the biochemistry of psychological self-control (some call it willpower). One chapter discusses dieting in significant detail because diets place a double-whammy on our self-control. Anyway, the point I want to enlarge on later is this: some recent work points to the conclusion that your body seems to have a memory for your dieting history and it will only allow you to go through one major diet-induced weight loss during your lifetime. So if you found yourself some number of unwanted pounds too heavy at some point and then lost most or all of them in one go-around at dieting, that may have been all she wrote for doing large weight-loss excursions.

After the one biggie, we do have some hope, but the body seems to want to fight tooth and nail (almost literally, in fact) to prevent a second or subsequent major loss. All you can do after that is slow and steady losses with plateaus that will last longer than you want.

Will return with a more extended explanation and cited sources later. For now I'm off to Maine to find out the joys of gluten-free lobster rolls.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I'm stuck on a goddamned plateau already at 160. I just can't seem to dip back into the 50s. I think I need to step up the exercise (i.e. more than just running and riding my horse), but...

Yah I'm having problems actually making myself do so. It's a combination of not being quite sure what to do (there's no real excuse for this. I have many many resources available to me and my own experience), and a lot of being too tired at the end of the day to do it OR set something up to do in the morning.

I'm thinking what I might do is make a good playlist and do interval work by running with the beat of each song. That'll mix up the pace and push me into running faster intermittedly. It'd be an easy "first step", as I'm already running. I really need to start some from of strength building to get off my plateau, though. If I could do Krav more than once a week, that'd be awesome, but I can't. I'd do Pilates, but I'm so inflexible that I struggle to do it correctly... I'd just go do a couple weeks of personal training at our student gym, but I HATE the student gym. BLAAHHHHH

I'll get myself into something before too long...I just need a good kick in the pants I suppose.

 

[newbierubie]

fitness dom

yes! I need a fitness dom (female). trying to eat healthy again and need to be disciplined to stay on track.

 

[TxBookGirl]

.....

 

[Homburg]

I've read something about set points, and how they are a point where you body is comfortable. Below that, your system is just not happy at all. And it seems most people have a "healthy" set-point, and a lazy one. In my case, when I am working it, watching my diet, etc, my set-point is in the 275-280 range, which is where I am now. If I'm not, and am being a lazy slob, it's a hair north of 310lbs. "Healthy" is in quotes above as it is not necessarily a healthy point, simply that it is where you body gravitates when you're eating right and moving around enough.

I'm currently averaging around 2200 or so (clean) kcals a day, and I hit the gym 3-4 days a week for around 30-45 minutes of lifting, and 60-120 minutes of racquetball. I should probably weigh less than 280lbs, but I do. *shrug* In my case, I'm holding that weight while the pants are getting slowly more loose. So, in theory, I'm experiencing a weight-neutral body composition swing. Per unit of volume, muscle is heavier than fat, so if I am getting smaller round the waist and weighing the same, then I'm gaining muscle and losing fat. In theory.

Theory also says that this is not possible. You are either in losing fat due to caloric deficit, or you are gaining muscle due to proper stimulus and caloric surplus. You aren't supposed to be able to do both simultaneously. *shrug* I don't really care so long as I'm less of a fat slob tomorrow than I am today.

 

[Cattypuss]

Obesity is getting bigger, badder and more common in the West.

Cause(s)?

- too much sitting around; not enough walking and sports?
- convenience and junk food rather than real food?
- weight obsession and dieting, leading to rebound/rebellion overeating?

We all blame the first two but increasingly I am feeling that the third should be acknowledged as a significant factor.

30 years ago, how many people had heard of BMI? How common were the "low-fat" and "diet" versions of foods?

I feel sure that the more we worry bout our weight, the fatter we get...

 

[intothewoods]

Obesity is getting bigger, badder and more common in the West.

Cause(s)?

- too much sitting around; not enough walking and sports?
- convenience and junk food rather than real food?
- weight obsession and dieting, leading to rebound/rebellion overeating?

We all blame the first two but increasingly I am feeling that the third should be acknowledged as a significant factor.

30 years ago, how many people had heard of BMI? How common were the "low-fat" and "diet" versions of foods?

I feel sure that the more we worry bout our weight, the fatter we get...

Hmm, I don't know. There's definitely a whole lot of yoyo dieting, but I also think theres's a whole lot of people who just eat like hell and have no clue or interest in changing those habits.