I need some feed back from those that do.

[KoPilot]

Besides, she wants a baby.

If you're a dude, this is red flags for me.

 

[CutieMouse]

I skimmed the first bit you originally linked, then the "first date" passage... The meal was more developed than the interaction between the two. I still don't understand why they have such an intense connection that they'd go from first meet to marriage in 3 weeks- unless it's because he's a typical romance novel wealthy guy, who always gets what he wants (after all, money always does), and she's actually a weak, fragile, easily swayed woman, secretly desperate for a white knight to save her from the cruel cruel world.

 

[midwestyankee]

Try the first date (no sex, no bondage). Go down to chapter 4.

http://www.literotica.com/s/kitty-and-teddy-llc-ch-02?page=2

Unless Chapter 4 somehow swallows the space-time continuum and takes the narrative out several months beyond the three weeks you mentioned earlier, there's absolutely no reason for me to use my time to read this. I do work on my own cars, and when a story includes a stupid act like the one Stella mentioned above, I stop reading. I just don't suffer fools in any fashion, and a writer who tries to create a character who knows more than he does is a fool. If you still have trouble with the concepts in Algebra II, don't try to write the next "Good Will Hunting."

 

[pocketrocket]

Unless Chapter 4 somehow swallows the space-time continuum and takes the narrative out several months beyond the three weeks you mentioned earlier, there's absolutely no reason for me to use my time to read this. I do work on my own cars, and when a story includes a stupid act like the one Stella mentioned above, I stop reading. I just don't suffer fools in any fashion, and a writer who tries to create a character who knows more than he does is a fool. If you still have trouble with the concepts in Algebra II, don't try to write the next "Good Will Hunting."

BA in Mathematics.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

BA in Mathematics.

No degrees in real life, BDSM, or Creative Writing, apparently

 

[pocketrocket]

I skimmed the first bit you originally linked, then the "first date" passage... The meal was more developed than the interaction between the two. I still don't understand why they have such an intense connection that they'd go from first meet to marriage in 3 weeks- unless it's because he's a typical romance novel wealthy guy, who always gets what he wants (after all, money always does), and she's actually a weak, fragile, easily swayed woman, secretly desperate for a white knight to save her from the cruel cruel world.

I would not know about typical romance novels. I don't read them. Sheila is not weak, fragile or easily swayed. Far from it. I like the white knight. Sean has more than his share of chivalry.

The title is a play on words. She is smooth and graceful. People call her the Cat. Sean is powerful but inarticulate. His nickname is the Bear. To each other they become [K]itten and [T]eddybear.

No degrees in real life, BDSM, or Creative Writing, apparently

I am doing well in two out of three.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Okay, no more personal attacks, please. No blind assumptions.

But it's true, Pocketrocket, that your BDSM content implies a lackof knowledge and understanding feels insulting to me, as a member of the scene.
Especially since the information is so easy to get.



That's the aspect you came to ask about.

I do have problems with your writing, and you could use a really heavy-handed content editor -- but no one wants to edit anyone, so I won't complain a lot about that.

 

[CutieMouse]

I would not know about typical romance novels. I don't read them. Sheila is not weak, fragile or easily swayed. Far from it. I like the white knight. Sean has more than his share of chivalry.

The title is a play on words. She is smooth and graceful. People call her the Cat. Sean is powerful but inarticulate. His nickname is the Bear. To each other they become [K]itten and [T]eddybear.

I was simply stating my opinion of the characters, off a cold read. There is a mountain of filler in there, but I was hard pressed to see any real "meat" that told me why the characters were going from point A to Z so quickly.

From what I've read so far, I get more arrogant rich guy, than white knight. And if she's so easy to twist into girlish butterfly knots, then yes (IMO), she is weak.

Look, I operate from a submissive perspective. I've made my share of bad decisions re: BDSM. But if a guy pulled the sort of thing with me that your character did in the dungeon? I'd be declining any further offers to spend time together. If I did lose my mind and go out with him again? The whole "research her entire background blahblahblah" stuff would land him in stalkerville, instead of my bed.

 

[Bramblethorn]

To the OP, by the Lit voting, most of your stories are well liked. Many have the coveted red H. But, your reading audience must not be from this group. At least not for this particular story. Still, an adoring audience is an adoring audience. The author of 50 shades has made quite a bit off of her stories, so I wouldn't take the negative comments in this thread too seriously.

Oh yeah. I don't think any of the advice given here (including mine) is going to boost those ratings, but I applaud writers who don't rest on their laurels.

Try the first date (no sex, no bondage). Go down to chapter 4.

http://www.literotica.com/s/kitty-and-teddy-llc-ch-02?page=2

Some key passages here, and from the first chapter:

[Her] Normally, I prefer to do introductory things early, before the regular clients start to populate the changing area. It is easier to make a good impression in their absence.

...

[Him] The document explained the photograph. Cynthia had a digital camera set up to record all her work. This made excellent security sense, but I also saw the commercial possibilities.

Recording sexual partners without their knowledge or consent is extremely creepy behaviour. For a pro-domme, it's also grossly unprofessional. The #1 "commercial possibility" here is blackmail; most people who visit a dominatrix are liable to take serious damage to their career and/or family lives if they're outed. (Look up Max Mosley for a recent example.) Any domme who wants to do business with rich clients will be doing her utmost to make sure they know their privacy will be protected: absolutely no photography without negotiation. This contradicts the "extreme discretion" you mention later on: show, don't tell!

Clients mingling is also a bad idea; I'm not sure why she would have multiple clients hanging around in what seems to be a solo operation where she's working by appointment, but a dungeon that does have more than one set of clients at a time is likely to have separate waiting areas for the sake of discretion.

Security: cameras are only a deterrent if people know about them at the time, and as previously discussed both these people are already well into unsafe territory.

The date itself... there's an awful lot of "these people are rich and have expensive things" but it still doesn't give me any sense of emotional connection between the two of them, sorry :-/

 

[pocketrocket]

The cameras are in full view. There is extensive disclosure, which is covered in chapter two. Not only do the clients know there is a camera running, they buy pictures extracted from the video feed. She uses a lipstick kiss as a signature, usually on freshly flogged or paddled skin.

She agrees with you about the clients not mingling. There is a waiting area and showers. However, there is always clean up after a session, so the area looks best at the start of the day. She works by referral. Clients know each other to the point of being a gossip circle. That is where the gym is handy. They are clients on two levels.

Other than a Mercedes with a driver, I don't get your point about the date. It's a university concert and an Italian restaurant. Dinner and a show is pretty standard date fare.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The cameras are in full view. There is extensive disclosure, which is covered in chapter two.

Chapter 1 says: "Mr. Richards didn't even know about the recordings. We had never gotten to that part of the disclosure."

If she discloses to other clients beforehand, that's good, but clearly she hasn't disclosed to him. I didn't see anything in Chapter 1 mentioning that he's aware of the cameras; from Chapter 2 it comes across as if the first he knew of them was when she sends him the photo.

Other than a Mercedes with a driver, I don't get your point about the date. It's a university concert and an Italian restaurant. Dinner and a show is pretty standard date fare.

"Mercedes with a driver" is quite a lot on its own, but it's not just that...

"George, as usual, had the car in pristine condition. I was using the Mercedes, since we had a long drive. The Deusenberg was impressive and the BMW was flashy, but the Mercedes was both reliable and comfortable. I wanted no chance of mechanical failure and I would have to drive the 503 myself. Wait a month, when we could put the top down."

I'm not a car expert, but the Internet tells me that a 1957 BMW 503 cabriolet goes for about $176k-350k depending on condition. Not sure what model Duesenberg he has, but apparently Jay Leno bought a rusty 1931 Model J for $180k and is valuing it at around $1m after restoration, and somebody was selling modern reproduction Duesenbergs for around $200k. I'm assuming the Merc is of a similar calibre. So we've established that this guy owns about $500k+ worth of cars, as well as having a chauffeur.

There's a paragraph on Cynthia's outfit from his perspective and more later from hers, including her emeralds and pearls. Antique jewellery given by a judge?

And then:

"In over two hours, I had spoken only to the restaurant staff and not said a word to her". She does get to talk about music and dance, which are important to her, and that's a start. But that's still not much interaction; on a word count, I think the meal and her wardrobe each get more space than the conversation.

 

[pocketrocket]

Chapter 1 says: "Mr. Richards didn't even know about the recordings. We had never gotten to that part of the disclosure."

If she discloses to other clients beforehand, that's good, but clearly she hasn't disclosed to him. I didn't see anything in Chapter 1 mentioning that he's aware of the cameras; from Chapter 2 it comes across as if the first he knew of them was when she sends him the photo.

They were walking through the disclosure when he picked up the cuffs. Surely that much was clear.

"Mercedes with a driver" is quite a lot on its own, but it's not just that...

"George, as usual, had the car in pristine condition. I was using the Mercedes, since we had a long drive. The Deusenberg was impressive and the BMW was flashy, but the Mercedes was both reliable and comfortable. I wanted no chance of mechanical failure and I would have to drive the 503 myself. Wait a month, when we could put the top down."

I'm not a car expert, but the Internet tells me that a 1957 BMW 503 cabriolet goes for about $176k-350k depending on condition. Not sure what model Duesenberg he has, but apparently Jay Leno bought a rusty 1931 Model J for $180k and is valuing it at around $1m after restoration, and somebody was selling modern reproduction Duesenbergs for around $200k. I'm assuming the Merc is of a similar calibre. So we've established that this guy owns about $500k+ worth of cars, as well as having a chauffeur.

I see you are a car buff, protestations notwithstanding. The value is north of $2 Million. We did not mention the 70 Chevelle LS6, the Bentley or two or three others. Sean is seriously rich and his business allows him to skim news of such cars. It is also beside the point. Sheila does not know that yet.

There's a paragraph on Cynthia's outfit from his perspective and more later from hers, including her emeralds and pearls. Antique jewellery given by a judge?

The jewelry is a Patron gift. Her first patron in this case.

Pearl buttons are classy, but not valuable. The pearls are too small.

"In over two hours, I had spoken only to the restaurant staff and not said a word to her". She does get to talk about music and dance, which are important to her, and that's a start. But that's still not much interaction; on a word count, I think the meal and her wardrobe each get more space than the conversation.

If you do not find it significant that a woman can talk freely and her date listens, I have no help. I thought trust was important in this forum.

 

[CutieMouse]

They were walking through the disclosure when he picked up the cuffs. Surely that much was clear.


I see you are a car buff, protestations notwithstanding. The value is north of $2 Million. We did not mention the 70 Chevelle LS6, the Bentley or two or three others. Sean is seriously rich and his business allows him to skim news of such cars. It is also beside the point. Sheila does not know that yet.

It doesn't matter that Shelia doesn't know it yet... you can't toss $2M[+] in cars into a story, then protest that people are focusing on the money aspect/ it's just a simple university concert date.

The jewelry is a Patron gift. Her first patron in this case.

Pearl buttons are classy, but not valuable. The pearls are too small.

She's used to SugarDaddy arrangements, and caves for money. Got it.

If you do not find it significant that a woman can talk freely and her date listens, I have no help. I thought trust was important in this forum.

I don't consider 2 hours of one-sided babbling, to be a conversation. I wouldn't tolerate a "date" in which the restaurant staff interacted with my date, more than I did. In fact, it would leave me with a very negative impression, and I'm probably excuse myself long before the date was officially over.

 

[IrisAlthea]

This must be some kind of record for "Yes but...".

 

[Stella_Omega]

This must be some kind of record for "Yes but...".

Oh, not even.

Writers 'yes but' at me when they've asked me for advice, I 'yes but' at them when I ask for advice.... "Yes but" is native language to a writer.

 

[Netzach]

From the prodomme angle, even as a prodomme who has worked with plenty of other co-workers submissive in their personal lives:

This would be like writing a cop and talking about pink uniforms and lazer tag guns as your standard issue weapons. The construct set up in this story exists on no planet in this solar system.

Being a pro is like being a dentist or an MD - getting personal with your "patient" is very counterintuitive and would take a lot of pages. It would also make this a much more interesting read.

As for the camera thing, this is one of the top three paranoias clients have. If anyone did run one for safety there is no fucking way on any planet that it would be made clear to the clientele - if someone WANTS taped they pay for it and a big show of the camera being portable and negotiated is made. This lululalaland idea of how pros do safety is common and completely ridiculous.

There is never a gossip circle among clients of one pro, though the development of one could be a totally fascinating storyline, I can see how it *could* happen.

A lot of wealthy people travel in these circles, it's true. However there are very few cartoon wealthy people who do, or people of such high profile and such obvious wealth and status that they stand to lose it. You can still create a money based fantasy without carrying it over into the world of "yeah right" - the part of Shades that a lot of people can't handle is that you have someone writing about wealth with no idea how that world actually operates either, as just a kind of branding diarrhea.

 

[pocketrocket]

It doesn't matter that Shelia doesn't know it yet... you can't toss $2M[+] in cars into a story, then protest that people are focusing on the money aspect/ it's just a simple university concert date.

OK

She's used to SugarDaddy arrangements, and caves for money. Got it.

No. Just the one and he died years ago. What she is used to is 60-80 hour work weeks.

I don't consider 2 hours of one-sided babbling, to be a conversation. I wouldn't tolerate a "date" in which the restaurant staff interacted with my date, more than I did. In fact, it would leave me with a very negative impression, and I'm probably excuse myself long before the date was officially over.

I do not accept the last one. She is comfortable enough to talk freely, which is unusual due to no social life (building the business is two full time jobs). He is showing interest. There is affirmative body language--eye contact, nodding where appropriate, actually listening--just no verbal language. She's comfortable and he is fascinated.

J

 

[pocketrocket]

From the prodomme angle, even as a prodomme who has worked with plenty of other co-workers submissive in their personal lives:

This would be like writing a cop and talking about pink uniforms and lazer tag guns as your standard issue weapons. The construct set up in this story exists on no planet in this solar system.

Being a pro is like being a dentist or an MD - getting personal with your "patient" is very counterintuitive and would take a lot of pages. It would also make this a much more interesting read.

As for the camera thing, this is one of the top three paranoias clients have. If anyone did run one for safety there is no fucking way on any planet that it would be made clear to the clientele - if someone WANTS taped they pay for it and a big show of the camera being portable and negotiated is made. This lululalaland idea of how pros do safety is common and completely ridiculous.

There is never a gossip circle among clients of one pro, though the development of one could be a totally fascinating storyline, I can see how it *could* happen.

All this is entirely valid. Unfortunately, the cameras are central to the plot.

 

[Bramblethorn]

They were walking through the disclosure when he picked up the cuffs. Surely that much was clear.

Yep. But I'm not clear on how being cuffed stops her from saying "by the way, we're on camera". Or how it negates the onus to do so, assuming for the sake of argument that we do take this as a consensual scene.

I see you are a car buff, protestations notwithstanding.

Not hardly. Until yesterday I didn't know "Duesenberg" was a car and I'd never heard of the 503. All I wrote about cars there is what I learned from a few minutes of googling. But context makes it clear that they're prestige brands.

The value is north of $2 Million. We did not mention the 70 Chevelle LS6, the Bentley or two or three others. Sean is seriously rich and his business allows him to skim news of such cars. It is also beside the point. Sheila does not know that yet.

Beside the point to her maybe - although even if she's only aware of one expensive car and chauffeur, that's "rich" in my world. But it's visible to the reader, emphasised to the point where "wealthy" becomes his most obvious character trait.

I don't know if you've ever read "American Psycho", but in that book Ellis uses an emphasis on expensive possessions and finicky musical tastes as a way to communicate that Patrick Bateman is a hollow person, emotionally vacant. For me it was so effective that I gave up early in the book, before reaching the violent bits that caused such a fuss.

Like Stella, I do find Insanely Wealthy BDSMers a bit of a cliché and would love to see fic about people I can relate to, but it's not a deal-breaker in itself. What bugs me is when the wealth gets more space than the characterisation that might help me understand: why do these two connect so strongly, so fast? What on earth is it that possesses her to accept it when he cuffs her, instead of kicking him in the balls and running for the door?

If you do not find it significant that a woman can talk freely and her date listens, I have no help. I thought trust was important in this forum.

It is. And monologuing can be an expression of trust (even if two hours is a bit hard to swallow) but first you have to get to that level of trust. For that, two-way communication works a lot better.

Here's a story I wrote just now:

At 8800 metres, Everest is the tallest mountain in the world. The air at the peak is only one-third atmospheric pressure. For many years it was considered impossible for people to survive at that altitude without bottled oxygen. [insert a couple of pages here about the history of climbing, name-check Tensing Norgay and Edmund Hillary, etc etc.]

Then Reinhold Messner came along and climbed Everest without oxygen. [add another couple of pages about the view from the top.] Because of this feat, he's widely considered the greatest mountaineer in history.

What Messner did is impressive. But I think most readers would find my telling of it unsatisfying because I haven't shown them how. What face did he climb? What techniques did he use for dealing with the lack of oxygen? Did he do special training beforehand, does he have some biological quirk that helps him deal with anoxia? The miracle needs a bit of selling.

That's how I feel here: you're using a near-miraculous connection between these two, and describing the after-effects, without selling me on how it happened.

 

[Stella_Omega]

what I wonder, is if you need feedback from those that do-- what are you going to do with it now that you're getting it?

discount it because it's not what you want to hear?

Or use it to rework your project?

 

[CutieMouse]

I do not accept the last one. She is comfortable enough to talk freely, which is unusual due to no social life (building the business is two full time jobs). He is showing interest. There is affirmative body language--eye contact, nodding where appropriate, actually listening--just no verbal language. She's comfortable and he is fascinated.

J

And I'm saying I don't buy it.

I've had dates where one or the other does the majority of talking, but two hours with NOTHING other than eye contact and nodding his head? No "interesting, tell me more?" or "it's obvious you're passionate about X; how did that happen?" or "that reminds me of ___", but the waitstaff gets his verbal attention? And she doesn't find it odd?

Conversations are give and take. She might as well have been speaking to a brick wall, which isn't something most women enjoy.

 

[midwestyankee]

what I wonder, is if you need feedback from those that do-- what are you going to do with it now that you're getting it?

discount it because it's not what you want to hear?

Or use it to rework your project?

This. And I'm also quite interested in the response to Yank's Corollary: Why is a writer doing research only after publication?

 

[Sir_Winston54]

what I wonder, is if you need feedback from those that do-- what are you going to do with it now that you're getting it?

discount it because it's not what you want to hear?

Or use it to rework your project?

This. And I'm also quite interested in the response to Yank's Corollary: Why is a writer doing research only after publication?

And SW's Corollary to Yank's Corollary: Why do so damn many people TRY to write about things of which they have only a tiny bit of fourteenth-hand rumor and even less practical experience?

 

[pocketrocket]

And I'm saying I don't buy it.

I've had dates where one or the other does the majority of talking, but two hours with NOTHING other than eye contact and nodding his head? No "interesting, tell me more?" or "it's obvious you're passionate about X; how did that happen?" or "that reminds me of ___", but the waitstaff gets his verbal attention? And she doesn't find it odd?

Conversations are give and take. She might as well have been speaking to a brick wall, which isn't something most women enjoy.

What you are saying is that he has to supply some filler. The problem I have is that he will not remember the filler like, for example, he remembered the interruption of the waiter.

what I wonder, is if you need feedback from those that do-- what are you going to do with it now that you're getting it?

discount it because it's not what you want to hear?

Or use it to rework your project?

This definitely. We have established that Sheila does even more stupid than I thought. I think I can turn it into a fantasy sequence. The plot issue is that he needs to see her image handling skills. The setting is largely secondary. The photograph is central.

The big problem is that almost nothing has been said about my actual question. Things were sidetracked from the first post. No one ever got past the meet cute and the fact that one of them is rich.

Other than saying that the meet cute needs major work, you have not told me anything.

"]And SW's Corollary to Yank's Corollary: Why do so damn many people TRY to write about things of which they have only a tiny bit of fourteenth-hand rumor and even less practical experience?

For the same reason Hollywood makes movies.

 

[Bramblethorn]

What you are saying is that he has to supply some filler. The problem I have is that he will not remember the filler like, for example, he remembered the interruption of the waiter.

IMHO thinking of two-way communication as "filler" is in itself part of the problem some of us have been talking about here.