I need some feed back from those that do.

[KoPilot]

A pile of shit doesn't sink any less if you smell it from a different angle.

 

[shy slave]

Have you ever heard the term "Id vortex?"

A hijack but - I hadn't heard of this, googled it and still none the wiser as the explanation went over my head.
I got lost in fandom boards, views of Ellen Fremedons views and the difference between the vortex and id vortex.

I know about the id from a psychology perspective, and about vortexes from a science perspective, but when I marry them up; well I can't marry them up.

Can you explain it in easy terms please? I know I am not the OP and this comment was not aimed at me, but I hate not knowing and/or not understanding.

 

[Stella_Omega]

An Id Vortex is a piece of writing, especially sexual, or power, or other wish-fulfillment fantasy, that says everything about the writer and nothing about the characters. Many times, all of the characters are the same character over and over-- and all of them are the writer as they wish they were. -- its especially noticeable in fanfiction because the readers know the characters and can easily judge how well the writer is capturing them, but it can be obvious in original work too.

I do it myself-- a lot of my writing is confessional, or wishful. My id, let me show it to you!

But if I can't make it amusing, at least, I try to stop myself from publishing.

Edited to add; One of the links brought me to this useful writer's tool Incluing

 

[CutieMouse]

This is the same scene from the other side.

It was sweet, but almost embarrassing, watching Sean try to work up to a BDSM scene. Our first time he had everything had been laid out for him. Afterward, he said he followed the map I gave him. I combed through the video. Once I could strip away the emotion, to analyze own responses, it was obvious what reactions he was cuing to. I must have been pretty desperate to respond so strongly. For Sean, it was easy. All the props he could wish for were close at hand. The real skill was taking charge. Sean is very good at pushing.

This was different. We had no setting, no props, no anticipation. Sean had no idea where to go with the scene. He settled on shaving. As a scene, it had possibilities. When we were back in New Jersey I intended to do it for Christine, though with refinements. Sean's scene wanted distractions. As it was, it was very close to vanilla sex, but I found I liked vanilla sex with Sean. He gave me a nice slow shave, followed by a nice slow pussy lick. When Sean finished his tongue bath, poked my asshole and bumped my clit, I was able to come on command. That was very satisfying. It was also a new sort of climax.

I melted into this orgasm. It moved through me like a warm wave. When I masturbate, the goal is usually to relieve tension. Occasionally, I would resort to self bondage, but the results were mixed. It was always to get a big finish. Even if I managed multiple orgasms, there was a sharpness to the climax. This orgasm was more like one of Sean's massages. It left me loose and relaxed, mellow and satisfied.

I spit out the gag, rolled out of the posture, pulled my hands from the restraints and pushed off the blindfold, which takes more time to say than to do. Sean was anxiously awaiting his grade. When did I become his teacher? I told him to work on his knots. Sean would hear what I did not say. There were better ways than words to tell him I appreciated his efforts, clumsy as they were.

J

This reads like another version of "Gosh golly, I never realized how overrated that icky, sick, [damaged and damaging] BDSM stuff was! My savior!" crossed with a woman who is willing to give up her own sexuality, just to get a man, crossed with passive aggressive bullshit instead of honest communication.

Which, IMO, is really difficult to swallow, if the guy in question was initially written to be such an overwhelming and powerful sort, that he successfully flipped a pro-Domme in a snap.

Then again, he is unrealistically richer than Midas, so my sugardaddy theorem still stands.

 

[StrayKat]

Edited to add; One of the links brought me to this useful writer's tool Incluing

Didnt know the particular world, I am not English anyway, but that is something some bad writers lack very badly.
I know I cant compare Dragonlance (which is annoying me right now) to anything Turgenev (my favorite writer) wrote in example, but lack of incluing and too many infodumps is usually my first clue about something being well or poorly written.
Thanks for teaching me a new word

 

[MeekMe]

Something tells me this should sink into the abyss unanswered

It feels like no matter what feed back is given it won't make a difference. This should have gone to the story feedback forum a long time ago.

People get it wrong all the time, what makes this different?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Didnt know the particular world, I am not English anyway, but that is something some bad writers lack very badly.
I know I cant compare Dragonlance (which is annoying me right now) to anything Turgenev (my favorite writer) wrote in example, but lack of incluing and too many infodumps is usually my first clue about something being well or poorly written.
Thanks for teaching me a new word

It's a word I never knew either!
AS I understand it, it's a word she invented to fill a gaping hole in terminology...

And oh yes, I get that clue too.

 

[shy slave]

An Id Vortex is a piece of writing, especially sexual, or power, or other wish-fulfillment fantasy, that says everything about the writer and nothing about the characters. Many times, all of the characters are the same character over and over-- and all of them are the writer as they wish they were. -- its especially noticeable in fanfiction because the readers know the characters and can easily judge how well the writer is capturing them, but it can be obvious in original work too.

I do it myself-- a lot of my writing is confessional, or wishful. My id, let me show it to you!

But if I can't make it amusing, at least, I try to stop myself from publishing.

Edited to add; One of the links brought me to this useful writer's tool Incluing

Thank you, your explanation makes far more sense than anything I found via google.

I think I am guilty of this too, I need to think about this.

What a woman to realise there was a gap in terminology, I don't know where your reading takes you to find this stuff, but I am glad it does

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

Isn't "feed back" really supposed to be a single word in this poster's thread title?? OMG that's bitchy, but coming from a writer that has just been digging under my skin...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thank you, your explanation makes far more sense than anything I found via google.

I think I am guilty of this too, I need to think about this.

What a woman to realise there was a gap in terminology, I don't know where your reading takes you to find this stuff, but I am glad it does

I am a big fan of fan fiction-- for its own sake. There are fandoms that I read without ever being able to sit through a single episode of whatever inspired the fans.

When I went looking for links on 'id vortex' the ones I found were from '04, '06. Good reading on those old discussions!

Ellen Fremedon says this;

Because the scenario-- so, Mulcahy is thrown into a universe full of people who look and talk just like his friends, only he's a slave and they all want to rape him. (Because, really, who wouldn't?) That storyline cuts pretty close to the id, you know? And it's just one of a large number of similarly... charged storylines (soul bonds, every fuck-or-die scenario ever written...) that you see very very often in fanfic, and from time to time in profic as well.

And the profic? Almost uniformly sucks.

Because pro writers either have some shame, and relegate the purest, most cracklicious iterations of those stories to drawerfic that their workshop buddies will never see, or else they're shameless. But they usually have to be shameless alone-- and so their versions are written so solitarily that they don't have any voice of restraint, to pull them back from the Event Horizon of the Id Vortex when it starts warping their story mechanics.

But in fandom, we've all got this agreement to just suspend shame. I mean, a lot of what we write is masturbation material-- not all of it, and not for everyone, but. A lot of it is, and we all know it, and so we can't really pretend that we're only trying to write for our readers' most rarefied sensibilities, you know? We all know right where the Id Vortex is, and we have this agreement to approach it with caution, but without any shame at all. (At least in matters of content. Grammar has displaced sex as a locus of shame. Discuss.)

And so we've got all these shameless fantasies being thrown out into the fannish ether, being read and discussed, and the next thing you know, we've got genres. We've got narrative traditions. We have enough volume and history for these things to develop a whole critical vocabulary.

We have a toolbox for writing this sort of thing really, really well, for making these 3 A.M. fantasies work as story and work as literature without having to draw back from the Id Vortex to do it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This reads like another version of "Gosh golly, I never realized how overrated that icky, sick, [damaged and damaging] BDSM stuff was! My savior!" crossed with a woman who is willing to give up her own sexuality, just to get a man, crossed with passive aggressive bullshit instead of honest communication.

Speaking of which... am I being overly cynical in expecting there to be an "I will throw money at you so there's no need for you to have sexual contact with other guys^W^W^W^W^W^Wgo on working as a Domme" moment in their near future?

 

[Allyourbase]

Incluing? Yay, I learned a new word today!

Also:
Id Vortex! Damn. And I studied literature?! How come this is not in my vocabulary?

Also, I totally do this id vortex thingie, but in some twisted way I don't think I write bad stories because of it. I do wonder whether I can do without. I always start out: hey let's write a new character! And they usually turn out the same kind of part-of-me-character again.

Maybe it's the first person pov though. Hm. I have an unfinished gay male story third person pov lying about that I could test this with. Those boys are not much like me.

Musicians. I don't care much about music.

Let me write that, publish it, and then, post a thread here asking advice from the ones amongst you who actually make music. No joke, I will.

Ellen Fremedon says this;
...
Grammar has displaced sex as a locus of shame. Discuss.
...

Ooh. Oooohhh. *brain expands*

 

[KoPilot]

Musicians. I don't care much about music.

Let me write that, publish it, and then, post a thread here asking advice from the ones amongst you who actually make music. No joke, I will.

I'm gonna write a story about being an author that doesn't do a lick of research before banging away at the keyboard like an ape and then bend over backwards in front of a bunch of people who know better to retroactively justify the nonsense they wrote. Because they're that self-important.

In all seriousness though, I'm reminded of the time I spent about 3 hours researching basic handgun safety for a single 1000 word scene that took place at a firing range and called upon my own experience and anxiety around guns from being in the vicinity of several shootings. Call me a smug POS, but there is no doubt in my mind that I'm an infinitely more talented (and mindful) writer than this guy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

See-- this is why I never finished that tentacles thing.

I've talked to every cephalopod that would talk to me, but mostly they don't want to talk about tentacle sex. It's othering and fetish-y. I just... don't feel right about it, yanno?

 

[Allyourbase]

I'm gonna write a story about being an author that doesn't do a lick of research before banging away at the keyboard like an ape and then bend over backwards in front of a bunch of people who know better to retroactively justify the nonsense they wrote. Because they're that self-important.

In all seriousness though, I'm reminded of the time I spent about 3 hours researching basic handgun safety for a single 1000 word scene that took place at a firing range and called upon my own experience and anxiety around guns from being in the vicinity of several shootings. Call me a smug POS, but there is no doubt in my mind that I'm an infinitely more talented (and mindful) writer than this guy.

Don't you have anything better to do with your time? Unless you're a masochist, then, no, you don't. Wait, you are. Right?

Oh hey I read your blog.

See-- this is why I never finished that tentacles thing.

I've talked to every cephalopod that would talk to me, but mostly they don't want to talk about tentacle sex. It's othering and fetish-y. I just... don't feel right about it, yanno?

Your cephalopod should talk to my gay guitar boy. And maybe more

 

[Stella_Omega]

My cephelapod is a lesbian, mostly...

 

[Bramblethorn]

See-- this is why I never finished that tentacles thing.

I've talked to every cephalopod that would talk to me, but mostly they don't want to talk about tentacle sex. It's othering and fetish-y. I just... don't feel right about it, yanno?

So write beak sex. Or inking.

 

[midwestyankee]

Feedback is just information and we all receive thousands of bits of feedback every day. Many people fail to distinguish between merely operational feedback (yes, I reached out far enough to successfully pick up my beer to take a sip) and new-growth feedback (when I admitted my own vulnerability over sadness, my son opened up to me more deeply than he has in a long time). The difference between those who learn from their feedback and those who don't lies in their willingness to closely examine it and try to understand the meaning and future implications of what they discovered from examining the feedback.

As someone a helluva lot smarter than me said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

Feedback is just information and we all receive thousands of bits of feedback every day. Many people fail to distinguish between merely operational feedback (yes, I reached out far enough to successfully pick up my beer to take a sip) and new-growth feedback (when I admitted my own vulnerability over sadness, my son opened up to me more deeply than he has in a long time). The difference between those who learn from their feedback and those who don't lies in their willingness to closely examine it and try to understand the meaning and future implications of what they discovered from examining the feedback.

As someone a helluva lot smarter than me said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

Amen to that
Feedback is not always easy to receive, but it can be truly difficult to give as well. Having those conversations with people, however, can pave the way to new relationship depths, or new depths of understanding for the other person. Or they might tell you to fuck off But that never stops me from giving the feedback...

 

[Netzach]

How can I ever Un-Read the MASH slash synopsis I just read? Awesome article tho.

 

[Allyourbase]

````````````````````

My cephelapod is a lesbian, mostly...

Ah, that narrows it down to talking then.

And excuse me for derailing. I did read the OP's stories, and I used to be really good in pointing out where the trouble was style and content wise, but you guys are doing a good job content wise, and style wise I'm just overall not a fan of the basic choices, so I'll just shut up.

 

[KoPilot]

Don't you have anything better to do with your time? Unless you're a masochist, then, no, you don't. Wait, you are. Right?

Oh hey I read your blog.

My brain wiring compels me to. I just can't help it. u_u

-flail-

 

[Endless_Night]

Wow. Gone a week and missed so much! The trope site is like a black hole. I spent 2 hours this morning clicking random links.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall

And this. Incluing is particularly brilliant.

An Id Vortex is a piece of writing, especially sexual, or power, or other wish-fulfillment fantasy, that says everything about the writer and nothing about the characters. Many times, all of the characters are the same character over and over-- and all of them are the writer as they wish they were. -- its especially noticeable in fanfiction because the readers know the characters and can easily judge how well the writer is capturing them, but it can be obvious in original work too.

*******************

Edited to add; One of the links brought me to this useful writer's tool Incluing

 

[pocketrocket]

This story is up for another award--epic length erotic story.

A friend mentioned that I should ask somethings. Does the first chapter, much abused above, read any worse than most BDSM stroke stories on this site? Is it any less realistic?

Did anyone get as far as the cat 'o nine tails scene at the end of book 2?
http://www.literotica.com/s/kandt-llc-ch-05?page=3 Start at Ch. 13

 

[Allyourbase]

My brain wiring compels me to. I just can't help it. u_u

-flail-

Yeah. I recognize that. I'd say it's mostly harmless.