Fleshmachine
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From my superior position I cannot help but laugh at all of the women that I have obviously angered.
I think men are horrid ...
- Thread starter peterpan
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CreamyLady
Uncompromising Visionary
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Angered?
Sweetie, it's a lot of work to get angry, and I'm pretty lazy.
I am angered by power crises, gasoline prices, household disasters and governmental entities. You aren't in the running.
Sweetie, it's a lot of work to get angry, and I'm pretty lazy.
I am angered by power crises, gasoline prices, household disasters and governmental entities. You aren't in the running.
Ulyssa
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Cym was right when she said this thread belongs down in the GB!
Fleshmachine, there is an old writer's addage which which correctly reminds any author to show and not tell.
If you can capture the reader with a disarming scene or a brilliant moment in prose, then the reader may allow the author to preach or teach or even listen to him bitch about the world for a few brief seconds.
Intrigued by your brash immaturity, I went to find out what sort of pieces you'd submitted to demonstrate all your blustering unparalleled genius to the rest of us.
Imagine my chagrin when I discovered that you haven't bothered to grace the rest of us with any of your brilliant works. You haven't shown us anything.
That means we merely have to take your word. Sorry 'bout that. Telling just isn't good enough.
Fleshmachine, there is an old writer's addage which which correctly reminds any author to show and not tell.
If you can capture the reader with a disarming scene or a brilliant moment in prose, then the reader may allow the author to preach or teach or even listen to him bitch about the world for a few brief seconds.
Intrigued by your brash immaturity, I went to find out what sort of pieces you'd submitted to demonstrate all your blustering unparalleled genius to the rest of us.
Imagine my chagrin when I discovered that you haven't bothered to grace the rest of us with any of your brilliant works. You haven't shown us anything.
That means we merely have to take your word. Sorry 'bout that. Telling just isn't good enough.
cymbidia
unrepentant pervert
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I'm with CL on this one; it's work to be angry and only deserving issues can raise such an emotion in me. You, Fleshmachine, with your petulant and deliberate attempts, aren't deserving. I'm sorry, dear.Fleshmachine said:
However, I have been momentarily distracted by and amused at your adolescent and transparent pokings, and they were indeed worth a few responses in idle moments. Unfortunately, your novelty is ephemeral and so... goodbye. Go play on the GB now, like the good boy your mother thinks you are. I'll not respond to your feeble attempts at gender provocation again, especially not in this forum and at least not until you grow some sophistication. THEN you might be interesting...
SpectreT
Knight in Tarnished Armor
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Utopia?
In peterpan's "utopia", I'd almost certainly be one of the dead ones. Every possible genetic flaw short of birth defect you can imagine. I'm 6' tall, fat and hairy. Facially, I resemble museum re-creations of Neanderthal man. Definitely visually unpleasant. I am posessed of a smaller than average penis, and clearly, my life suffers due to a mental problem now called Attention Deficit Disorder. That said, I am also a white male, therefore the sole cause of all that has ever been wrong with everything in this world and solely to blame for the transgressions of my great-great-great-grandfather's generation (my own family history includes Italian olive farmers on dad's side, and Irish Vikings on mom's side).
I may play B&D games, I may "switch", but the kind of society described in that post horrifies and sickens me. The fact that worse goes on around the world, with the genders reversed from that post sickens me more. Every one of us is a unique individual (is the phrase "unique individual" redundant?), and should be measured as such. My problems have kept me out of the potential breeding pool for nearly a decade now. We will only progress as a people if we start actually following our consciences, individually, and as a group instead of this quarter's bottom line. As long as there are people who have different languages, different gods, different names for THE SAME god, and a desire to 'become successful', Humanity will destroy. Men (the straight ones, anyway) do everything that they do to either feed themselves or make themselves attractive to women, be it accumulating money, fame, power, riding their bicycle past her house with no hands, you name it.
Peterpan, what genetic traits should be included in men for your little 'utopia'? Should we cull the race to make us smaller and weaker? Should we keep a few prized bulls around to ensure that we'll always have muscle? Should we try to find out if creativity and erotic imagination are genetic, and breed males for those? <shrug> I don't have the answers, and I'm likewise not entirely happy with a world that leaves me too little time and energy to do the only thing that truly matters to me: Find a mate, the mythical "One". But reducing males to the status of a slave race is not the answer. And, contrary to what readers of my post might be thinking, I'd say the same thing if the genter roles were reversed in this little scenario. Emotional connection to another is the only thing of value that comes of our self-awareness. Let's not waste it.
In peterpan's "utopia", I'd almost certainly be one of the dead ones. Every possible genetic flaw short of birth defect you can imagine. I'm 6' tall, fat and hairy. Facially, I resemble museum re-creations of Neanderthal man. Definitely visually unpleasant. I am posessed of a smaller than average penis, and clearly, my life suffers due to a mental problem now called Attention Deficit Disorder. That said, I am also a white male, therefore the sole cause of all that has ever been wrong with everything in this world and solely to blame for the transgressions of my great-great-great-grandfather's generation (my own family history includes Italian olive farmers on dad's side, and Irish Vikings on mom's side).
I may play B&D games, I may "switch", but the kind of society described in that post horrifies and sickens me. The fact that worse goes on around the world, with the genders reversed from that post sickens me more. Every one of us is a unique individual (is the phrase "unique individual" redundant?), and should be measured as such. My problems have kept me out of the potential breeding pool for nearly a decade now. We will only progress as a people if we start actually following our consciences, individually, and as a group instead of this quarter's bottom line. As long as there are people who have different languages, different gods, different names for THE SAME god, and a desire to 'become successful', Humanity will destroy. Men (the straight ones, anyway) do everything that they do to either feed themselves or make themselves attractive to women, be it accumulating money, fame, power, riding their bicycle past her house with no hands, you name it.
Peterpan, what genetic traits should be included in men for your little 'utopia'? Should we cull the race to make us smaller and weaker? Should we keep a few prized bulls around to ensure that we'll always have muscle? Should we try to find out if creativity and erotic imagination are genetic, and breed males for those? <shrug> I don't have the answers, and I'm likewise not entirely happy with a world that leaves me too little time and energy to do the only thing that truly matters to me: Find a mate, the mythical "One". But reducing males to the status of a slave race is not the answer. And, contrary to what readers of my post might be thinking, I'd say the same thing if the genter roles were reversed in this little scenario. Emotional connection to another is the only thing of value that comes of our self-awareness. Let's not waste it.
Re: Utopia?
Um.. lots of good points, at least if I had referred to genetics or eugenics or selective breeding or genocide or stuff... Are you sure you are replying to the correct post?
Come on guys. If I have to spell it out I think the women will catch on. In fact I think they have caught on an awful lot quicker. They must have already debated the pros and cons of this one in one of their secret womens meetings.
So you are American. Get over it.SpectreT said:
Um.. lots of good points, at least if I had referred to genetics or eugenics or selective breeding or genocide or stuff... Are you sure you are replying to the correct post?
Come on guys. If I have to spell it out I think the women will catch on. In fact I think they have caught on an awful lot quicker. They must have already debated the pros and cons of this one in one of their secret womens meetings.
Ulyssa
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If I have to spell it out...
Frustrating isn't it. There you are teaching all the secrets of ventriloquism and your deaf audience can't even read lips.
Yes, we have already dealt with all the ramifications of your ideas in one of our secret meetings. You see we've never bothered to tell your gender that we are telepathic between each other and the secret meeting is just one long continuous world wide dialogue.
But you know what? (and this is why I'm glad we're posting on Litcom) I also happen to know that should I invite you to post a very personal liquid message in my pussy, then I should be able to get at least 12 hours of utter thrall-dom from any of you basically straight or bi men.
Fleshmachine was right about respecting a woman's true power--he was just wrong about how to approach it.
[Edited by Ulyssa on 05-11-2001 at 06:09 AM]
peterpan said:
Frustrating isn't it. There you are teaching all the secrets of ventriloquism and your deaf audience can't even read lips.
Yes, we have already dealt with all the ramifications of your ideas in one of our secret meetings. You see we've never bothered to tell your gender that we are telepathic between each other and the secret meeting is just one long continuous world wide dialogue.
But you know what? (and this is why I'm glad we're posting on Litcom) I also happen to know that should I invite you to post a very personal liquid message in my pussy, then I should be able to get at least 12 hours of utter thrall-dom from any of you basically straight or bi men.
Fleshmachine was right about respecting a woman's true power--he was just wrong about how to approach it.
[Edited by Ulyssa on 05-11-2001 at 06:09 AM]
SpectreT
Knight in Tarnished Armor
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peterpan said:
It would require genocide to reduce the population of men to your 1:100 ratio, and to the "Right to Lifers", the mass abortion of male unborn definitely counts as genocide, as well. I was thinking of ALL of the ramifications of such a scenario, including the difficulty of maintaining the necessary genetic diversity to maintain a healthy species. My own overweight condition owes to lazyness and sheer exhaustion at the end of my work day, rather than to any genetic predisposition, so I guess you're right. I am an American. My intelligence, erotic imagination, and physical size would all be plusses in the genetic column, but the hairy and ugly definitely put me out of the running. (visually pleasing, remember?)
SpectreT
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Just remembered something else: Homosexuality. If a man is gay, does that automatically disqualify him from living? Or would he be "Pressed into Service" to the Race? We might find out, though if people are born gay, or if their upbringing and early experiences mold their character. For example, if lesbians are made rather than born, your 100 women would naturally fall back on each other for sexual gratification. And, for that matter, a member of this new slave race, males, might just be born with a desire for one of their own, making them useless to the continuation of the Race. Men would only be used as providers of semen, something that can be accomplished just as easily with the hand. With the direction cloning is going, we could do away with men altogether in the near future, and have tissue engineered to produce sperm cells to those odd, masochistic women who actually want to go through pregnancy and birth, a physically horrible experience from what I'm told, though it seems to be very emotionally fulfilling. I'm still working on all the possible ramifications of your idea, but you've got to be prepared for your original scheme to be twisted by the selfish. Look at what the Bolsheviks did to Marx's dream of an utopian society; they made it a militaristic hotbed of paranoia and repression.
Fleshmachine
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This thread is far to entertaining for me to simply pass up.
My very hollow provocations merely allowed others with far more insightful interpretations to speak up, as they may not have, if I had not set the stage for them to prove me wrong.
Manipulation is a more powerful tool than mere intelligence.
GENIUS def 3. a person having a natural ability or talent
My very hollow provocations merely allowed others with far more insightful interpretations to speak up, as they may not have, if I had not set the stage for them to prove me wrong.
Manipulation is a more powerful tool than mere intelligence.
GENIUS def 3. a person having a natural ability or talent
cymbidia
unrepentant pervert
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Agreed, but i might want two men at once, or three. ~lazy smile~ It wouldn't be up to you anyway, would it, pleasure man, to decide the ratios or allocate the "resources"?peterpan said:
Pfffft. Fantasy. When you're allowed out in public, you'll be escorted in groups, of course, properly attired and suitably restrained. Every woman can go collect her man-of-the-moment from the central holding facility or he can be delivered to her, prepared.
"Pleasing to the eye" is a dangerously slippery concept, peterpan dear. One woman's Adonis is another woman's object of disgust. Some women like more meat on their men while others prefer them whipcord thin. We'll need a huge variety, of course.
Darlin', we're leaving them guessing, remember? It's worked well for centuries, for millennia, that way...Ulyssa said:
I may be completely out in left field here, but isn't the offer to be fucked to death by a supermodel a pretty powerful lure to all men, including those who are currently dead and those who haven't yet been conceived? Oh, let us not discount the power of mind-bending sex as a lure to one's death (even if it's only a lure into the room with the doctors and the stun guns...) Genetic diversity would be maintained by advanced techniques of in vitro fertilization using donated eggs and the frozed sperm of those males whose traits we want to preserve. Easy. Finally, you wouldn't be allowed to be lazy, nor would you have an exhausting work day. You hair can be rearranged to be more pleasing to those who choose to use you, and your facial features will be found desirable by some of us. If not, and we decide to keep you anyway for your other redeeming qualities, there's always plastic surgery.SpectreT said:
Gay men will still be allowed to exist, but in smaller numbers. After all, we won't need them too often. I'm thinking the masochistically-inclined among us might want to toy with a gay man occasionally so, of course, we'll need to have a few around. We'll not do away with men completely, though, because the ski- to-skin sensation of hands and lips sliding over our bodies, and the hard gasping thrusting in-and-out feeling while we're open and wildly accepting, and the slippery sinuous twining of tongues while an iron-hard cock probes against the opening to our pussies is necessary for our continued contentment, individually and as the Race of Women.SpectreT said:
A ratio of 100 women to 1 man might be slightly low, however, given that some of us are far more sexually greedy than others and none of us want be without. When we want a hot, hard, pantingly ready man in our beds, we don't want to wait for Sally down the street to turn him back in to be washed and powdered and prettied up for our use, you know?
[Edited by cymbidia on 05-11-2001 at 10:06 AM]
CreamyLady
Uncompromising Visionary
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Not to mention that, without megavitamins and lots of rest, he won't be good for anything after Sally gets through with him.
CreamyLady
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Too few men are a bigger problem than too many.
Take Sally: after she's finished with a man, it will take weeks before he can so much as lift a pinkie, let alone anything more significant.
Plus the diversity issue -- one might like the greyhound look one day, and the "big, beefy burritos of manhood" another. I mean, a woman may like a salad and roll when she's dieting, but some days you really have to stuff yourself!
Or, be stuffed . . . I think I'll stop now.
Take Sally: after she's finished with a man, it will take weeks before he can so much as lift a pinkie, let alone anything more significant.
Plus the diversity issue -- one might like the greyhound look one day, and the "big, beefy burritos of manhood" another. I mean, a woman may like a salad and roll when she's dieting, but some days you really have to stuff yourself!
Or, be stuffed . . . I think I'll stop now.
Fleshmachine
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And what about us guys who like to play on both sides of the fence?
Can we still have male lovers? Along with our daily female duties?
Can we still have male lovers? Along with our daily female duties?
Mickie
Not Really Here
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Ulyssa’s comment about stories being the place to advance your theories is correct. Why don’t both Fleshmachine and Peterpan write stories based on their thoughts and let the debate continue from there?
Personally, I’m far too lazy when not working to become anyone’s stud. (Although I have my moments *grin*) I’d like to have a benevolent master take care of me, or a few benevolent masters, but only when I’m in the mood for them.
Cym, the -- ah -- bevy of females of last night were all in my head, you know. I’m rather monogamous since we had kids. Probably why I spend a lot of time writing ‘nasties’. And if I didn’t get my own drinks, I wouldn’t get none atall. Would any of you benevolent female master types volunteer to get me a drink? Rum with a dash of coke, please? Perhaps a little lime?
*Slumping in my chair, staring at the truck outside the window that STILL needs a new carb, thinking a drink always tastes better when made by female hands*
Pathetic, aren’t I? ;-)
Mickie
Personally, I’m far too lazy when not working to become anyone’s stud. (Although I have my moments *grin*) I’d like to have a benevolent master take care of me, or a few benevolent masters, but only when I’m in the mood for them.
Cym, the -- ah -- bevy of females of last night were all in my head, you know. I’m rather monogamous since we had kids. Probably why I spend a lot of time writing ‘nasties’. And if I didn’t get my own drinks, I wouldn’t get none atall. Would any of you benevolent female master types volunteer to get me a drink? Rum with a dash of coke, please? Perhaps a little lime?
*Slumping in my chair, staring at the truck outside the window that STILL needs a new carb, thinking a drink always tastes better when made by female hands*
Pathetic, aren’t I? ;-)
Mickie
SpectreT
Knight in Tarnished Armor
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cymbidia...
It's always nice to see one of my posts acknowledged by one of such refinement and intellegence. It's also nice to see some points I've mentioned taken seriously. Truthfully, I'd forgotten about the "greedy bitch" syndrome, or I'd have thrown that into my rant, too. You women do come close to using up a renewable resource sometimes, if memory serves me well. You did, however, not mention a possibility I hinted at in this slightly-askew 100:1 idea; A lesbian society who only keep males as breeding stock, and take their sexual pleasure with other women. Kind of depends on if homosexuality is an inborn trait, or if everyone's a little bi, or if straight is the "default setting" for human sexuality. After all, if someone's a little bi, and her local holding pen's stock is either all loaned out or depleted, what's to stop her from ringing a friend for a mutual grope.... er, gripe session? And what about the psychological effects of slavery of this type? If nothing else, this thread can launch about a hundred thousand stories, taking it in any direction from The Handmaid's Tale to The Story of O, with gender roles reversed, of course....
I'm already working on my first take on this......
It's always nice to see one of my posts acknowledged by one of such refinement and intellegence. It's also nice to see some points I've mentioned taken seriously. Truthfully, I'd forgotten about the "greedy bitch" syndrome, or I'd have thrown that into my rant, too. You women do come close to using up a renewable resource sometimes, if memory serves me well. You did, however, not mention a possibility I hinted at in this slightly-askew 100:1 idea; A lesbian society who only keep males as breeding stock, and take their sexual pleasure with other women. Kind of depends on if homosexuality is an inborn trait, or if everyone's a little bi, or if straight is the "default setting" for human sexuality. After all, if someone's a little bi, and her local holding pen's stock is either all loaned out or depleted, what's to stop her from ringing a friend for a mutual grope.... er, gripe session? And what about the psychological effects of slavery of this type? If nothing else, this thread can launch about a hundred thousand stories, taking it in any direction from The Handmaid's Tale to The Story of O, with gender roles reversed, of course....
I'm already working on my first take on this......
Ok here is my new revision.
You can't get an idea of this scope perfect first time. Here are some revisions based on discussions till now.
A ratio of Womyn:men of 8:1_____
This is enough for every Womyn to have a man for an hour every night. The man may also choose to be available after hours for Womyn with cleaning fetishes. Womyn may organise to pool their hours or store their hours for the weekends.
----
Advantages are that Womyn would be getting men at their professional best instead of the stub end of a mans day.
Disadvantages are significant, but not insurmountable. To sleep with eight different Womyn every working day takes a lot out of a man. I am sure technology can overcum this.
Another disadvantage is having men available in sufficient quantities during that after-work hour. Of course Womyn could work in shifts so that some would get off work at 8am, but this seems unreasonable to me. More sensible would be a series of super-fast trains circling the globe carrying men from timezone to timezone, always arriving say around 8pm.
ADDENDUM: This allows Womyn a huge multinational selection.
Methods of male polulation reduction_____
Personally I do not have a problem with abortion when the foetus is only a few cells across. However I believe it should SOON be possible to, rather than abort, simply toggle the sex from male to female very early on.
----
This would not transform society immediately. There would probably be a period where the men existant today would be afraid to go out at night due to rampaging girl gangs, but Womyn have to live with much the same right now due to a surplus (to needs) of young males.
Rights of the male___
This society would not be destroyed by a few men not playing ball. Men may date whomever they like after hours. If one in ten is purely homosexual then we need simply produce 10% more men than 1:8. Also, Womyn sometimes just want to talk with a man about color schemes etc. There would naturally be a Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Men.
Genetic diversity vs competition_____
To mantain numbers, each eight Womyn would need to produce eight daughters and one son, slightly more than one child per Womyn instead of the current two. Every Womyn should produce one daughter, thus none is totally excluded from the next generation. However the Womyn that produces the son is donating about 8 times more genetic material than the others so there would be high competition for this role.
There you have it: more over-all competition, less total failures. There would be some form of child-lottery to make up for sons and daughters that die in the inevitable skydiving orgy accidents etc.
You can't get an idea of this scope perfect first time. Here are some revisions based on discussions till now.
A ratio of Womyn:men of 8:1_____
This is enough for every Womyn to have a man for an hour every night. The man may also choose to be available after hours for Womyn with cleaning fetishes. Womyn may organise to pool their hours or store their hours for the weekends.
----
Advantages are that Womyn would be getting men at their professional best instead of the stub end of a mans day.
Disadvantages are significant, but not insurmountable. To sleep with eight different Womyn every working day takes a lot out of a man. I am sure technology can overcum this.
Another disadvantage is having men available in sufficient quantities during that after-work hour. Of course Womyn could work in shifts so that some would get off work at 8am, but this seems unreasonable to me. More sensible would be a series of super-fast trains circling the globe carrying men from timezone to timezone, always arriving say around 8pm.
ADDENDUM: This allows Womyn a huge multinational selection.
Methods of male polulation reduction_____
Personally I do not have a problem with abortion when the foetus is only a few cells across. However I believe it should SOON be possible to, rather than abort, simply toggle the sex from male to female very early on.
----
This would not transform society immediately. There would probably be a period where the men existant today would be afraid to go out at night due to rampaging girl gangs, but Womyn have to live with much the same right now due to a surplus (to needs) of young males.
Rights of the male___
This society would not be destroyed by a few men not playing ball. Men may date whomever they like after hours. If one in ten is purely homosexual then we need simply produce 10% more men than 1:8. Also, Womyn sometimes just want to talk with a man about color schemes etc. There would naturally be a Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Men.
Genetic diversity vs competition_____
To mantain numbers, each eight Womyn would need to produce eight daughters and one son, slightly more than one child per Womyn instead of the current two. Every Womyn should produce one daughter, thus none is totally excluded from the next generation. However the Womyn that produces the son is donating about 8 times more genetic material than the others so there would be high competition for this role.
There you have it: more over-all competition, less total failures. There would be some form of child-lottery to make up for sons and daughters that die in the inevitable skydiving orgy accidents etc.
Be happy or be culled, inferior gender
I am not taking you seriously because I created this thread to precisely to avoid previous seriousness in a neigbouring thread. Please submit only subtly flawed and fallacious arguments in future
Yes, I would like to read stories based on the flaws in these ideas, but could you keep them this side of blackly humourous?
Hi SpectreT,SpectreT said:
I am not taking you seriously because I created this thread to precisely to avoid previous seriousness in a neigbouring thread. Please submit only subtly flawed and fallacious arguments in future
Yes, I would like to read stories based on the flaws in these ideas, but could you keep them this side of blackly humourous?
One thing comes to mind, and I don't really want to sound like an ass or anything, but who would fix all of the cars and do all of the nasty construction work that causes oh so many busted knuckles on the average man's hands? Do you ladies really want to become mechanics and construction workers and sanitation workers? Granted, it couldn't be much worse than childbirth...
If you want to read a story about this preposterous society, try 'Regiment of Women", a science fiction novel. I can't remember the author's name, but it was apretty good story of complete gender reversal. More entertaining than most of this thread.
Girls can do anything
I don't know, but personally I find the image of women wrestling with desiel engines, all sweaty and grimey... or maybe construction workers wearing nothing but those plumbers pants always an inch too low, or shirt tied around the middle to show off their muscular chests and a big leather tool belt and a construction helmet whistling at passing men..
I really don't see why you are not arguing my side
I don't know, but personally I find the image of women wrestling with desiel engines, all sweaty and grimey... or maybe construction workers wearing nothing but those plumbers pants always an inch too low, or shirt tied around the middle to show off their muscular chests and a big leather tool belt and a construction helmet whistling at passing men..
I really don't see why you are not arguing my side
Fleshmachine
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Somebody let me know when some of these stories get wrritten. OK
SpectreT
Knight in Tarnished Armor
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I meant taken seriously in the vein of the thread, which seems to fall in the black humor department. Read my posts on a slightly sarcastic note, except for thanks, and you'll get the idea. I'm not sure about the story I'm writing, though, the little bugger turned nasty twice now, and I've had to wipe it off the hard drive. The last version kept me awake in a corner sweating and shaking and crying all at once for a couple nights, so I should probably leave the idea alone.....
